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Youth softball allstars. Thoughts on the dreaded coaches kid

Discussion in 'Coaches Corner' started by garlan5, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    This is my daughters second year in softball and she's really doing well and made the allstar team as an alternate. We have two teams to pick from for allstars and my daughters team never beat the other team and that teams coach picks the AS team. Our team got 4 kids the other team 8. My daughter gets to practice with the team but that's about it unless someone quits or gets injured. At the first practice it's easy to see my daughter is much better than a couple of kids and about par with the rest. Of course the head coaches daughter can't catch a cold and doesn't even come close to being all star material.

    Is this a common issue with the coaches kid making it or just rural thing. My wife and I aren't making an issue of it and we're getting a lot of joy just watching our kid out perform some of the others in practice. Proving she belongs and getting extra practice is great. She's 7 and some if not all of the other girls have been at it some age 4 and 5.
     
  2. PaulinMyrBch

    PaulinMyrBch Don't touch his dog food Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    It's common. Frankly I don't have an issue with the guy's daughter being an undeserved starter. He's volunteering a bunch of his time when he could be doing other things, if the benefit to him is that he gets his daughter (among 11 others) some extended practice and games at an age where she's interested in the sport, so be it. The benefit to your daughter, even if she doesn't see much game time, is that she is getting better, she's 7 so not a critical age, and I can guarantee you others are noticing if she is performing as it seems. Tell her to keep playing hard, things will work out.

    But....get ready for this. Whether its coaches kids or not, agreeing with who plays and where never ends, at any level, with baseball/softball. If you don't like that subjective aspect of this sport, put her in track or golf, where you either beat someone or you don't.
     
  3. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah I'm used to it and don't expect anything to change. Was just curious if it's just the small town thing or not.

    Even though I didn't expect her to make it and the pieces fell like I knew they would I maybe just came here to vent a little. I'm not really mad so to speak but I do hate it for my girl a little. With that said we're embracing it and treating it like she made the team. She's working hard with me and practicing everyday with the team. She'll go to the tournament and cheer on from the stands as she can't be in the dug out. We'll be the supportive parents and not complain either. Like I said just using this to vent a little since I can't say it to anyone other than my wife.
     
  4. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    It's gonna happen. I was lucky in my experience (and my kid's), the coach's kids were generally decent players so it wasn't that big of a deal.

    EDIT: Only 12 on the team? It seems like there'd be plenty of chances to play every kid no?
     
  5. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    I was an alternate once as a kid who got screwed over by a coach because I bypassed playing for him to play with my cousins in another town. I hate the politics in youth sports. Karma won since someone couldn't play I made the team. I've also seen parents show their ass when their kids didn't make it and refuse the alternate position. I won't be that parent
     
  6. xpisblack

    xpisblack Member SoSH Member

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    If nothing else, and this is a shitty lesson to have to learn (but one that might help her in the long run), your daughter might get the idea that, if she wants to make the squad (be it at sport, at school admissions, at getting hired and then promoted, and so on), she has to ignore the unfairness and try harder and prove herself better than the others.

    In my limited experience assistant-coaching the wee leagues, the coaches either are far harder on their bairns than on the others, or let their urchins get away with everything. It is passing rare to find a coach who treats his or her pre-teen the same as all the others. Even in high school, my coach let his son slack off more than others because he knew his son was an asthmatic fat lad who genuinely could not keep up, but he had to play the game by requirement. It was unfair, but so it goes.
     
  7. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    My experience is the same as DrewDawg's, the coach's kid is usually pretty good and it's at least justifiable that he/she makes the team.

    You're right to not say anything though. There's just no good that can come out of such confrontations. My son is a 10 year old playing up in majors, his coach pulled me aside (100% unsolicited on my part) after practice once and told me that he looked good on the mound and he would work him into the rotation, and it never happened despite ample opportunity (blowouts, games where the older kids were on restricted pitch counts due to AAU). I'd love to ask him about it but he'll just either say he forgot or changed his mind for whatever reason, and my son will gain the rep of having a dad who is a pain in the ass, worse if thing turn heated. Just call it a learning experience and move on.
     
    #7 moondog80, Jun 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  8. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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  9. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah my daughter wasn't the least bit affected as she wasn't really aware of allstars until I addressed it with her. I explained to her what it meant to be one and what the alternates responsiblity was. I told her I wanted her to work extra hard these next few weeks to prove to those coaches that she should be on that team and focus real hard. She's really stepped it up and working with me in the evenings before and after her team practice. She is all smiles and giggles during practice and it makes me proud to see her shine.
     
  10. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    yeah normally. The head coaches daughter really isn't good at all. She's ducked under quite a few balls that should have been routine. The other coaches daughter is a good player but didn't have a strong season. She prob wouldn't have made it otherwise but she hustles and has potential and it's justifiable as you say.
     
  11. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I'm still wondering why a team that has only 12 kids on roster can't possibly have plenty of playing time for everyone.
     
  12. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not positive i understand your question. There are 12 allstars plus 2 alternates. Alternates aren't allowed to participate in the tournament and Dixie Youth doesn't recognize them. They were chosen as that because we agreed to commit to it and if someone quits or gets hurt they will be the ones to fill the spot.

    They could have up to 14 or 15 players on allstars but they chose not to. All players must play 6 outs in the field and all players must bat in the lineup.. So 10 in the field and all 12 (or 14-15) in the batting order. They chose 12 so it's less lineup moves.
     
  13. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    I had 14 on a summer baseball team one year. Made for a long lineup and included a couple kids that had virtually no chance off getting a hit.
    Still, at 7 years old, I'd probably just take the 14. Let them get experience and try to further their love of the game.

    Never had the coach's kid be horrible but certainly some were borderline and definitely kids that really had no business being on the team over other kids except for the politics.
    Our A and B teams will be announced this week and I know there will be at least 2 kids on the A team that realistically would be backups on the B team.
    That's the was it goes, at least in our town. Which is fairly small and many involved in the league and choosing teams grew up here.

    Good idea to vent here and keep it here. Seen some friendships ruined over what started as fairly mild comments to other parents.
    Not to mention kid gets marked.
     
  14. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I'm sorry--I thought the 8 from one team and 4 from another included the alternates. My bad.
     
  15. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    yeah i made it confusing. sorry about that.
     
  16. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Could this be the first thread ever transferred to the Coaches forum? LoL. Lots of other parents/coaches obses, err, highly enthusiastic about these conversations. Guilty as charged here.
     
  17. LoweTek

    LoweTek Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I am a non-parent manager, the only one in my league. The optics were so bad with the all-star selections made in our division I spoke to the league President and VP about it, privately and respectfully of course. The team was picked halfway into the season and many players had better second halves. They have not only unqualified coach's kids but unqualified coach's kids' friends.

    I have been at this for a while, so I get it. But my player's parents ask me and I don't like the position it puts me in because they are right. If it's one kid, fine, but this is not the case here.

    Finally, I question whether all-star teams are a good idea for younger than say 12U. I think they create exclusion at too young an age and potentially drive kids from the Game, something occurring with much greater frequency today. Anything discouraging kids from playing baseball needs to be considered carefully IMO.
     
  18. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    What's everyone's take on picking allstars. I'm not quite sure how they go about it or should be going about i mean. It seems as if the coach of the other team hand picked all girls from both team because they beat us outright for the year. The ratio of 8 girls to 4 seems unlogical since we had a couple more girls that were just as good as a few of the other teams. Realistically they had 6 or 7 and we had 5 or 6 that should have made it. We could have went 6 and 6 or 7 and 5. Is it fair to give the winning team more players? I think thats dumb and hurts the allstar team. Not to mention they're team was stacked from the start of the season with the oldest kids. Before the start of the last game I was told by our coach they wanted another girl over my daughter but my coach told them my daughter was the better player so they agreed to "scout" them both during the final game. Both girls had a good game but the other girl was chosen anyway.

    I should probably stop talking about it because I seem more pissed than I actually am. To be honest i'm happy with what she's earned so far. Thanks for all the feedback.

    My next topic might be what's better Little League or Dixie Youth....lol i've got that decision to make with my boys next year
     
  19. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    This is main reason why I am generally against the idea. Our town does not have kids playing up and does not hold tryouts.
    Last year there were discussions about it though. We have 12-14 teams in Majors the last several years and should continue. While there are probably plenty of 10 year olds better than some 11, there are very few who can compete with the top 11year olds not to mention the 12s. As is most coaches only use a few pitchers and only the top 11 year olds pitch more than 2 innings. We also have limited fields and very limited practices. With those factors, I think with very rare exceptions that the 10 year olds are going to have a better chance to develop and a better experience staying in the minors.
    Plus, we'd likely see some players quit rather than playing down and not playing with many of their friends. And personally I'd prefer to see kids play as long as they can regardless of their talent.
    Unfortunately others in our town only care if the "talented" kids keep playing.
     
  20. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    you posted about allstar selection before my latest post. solid answer. I've been involved in dixie baseball but was surprised to see allstars for this 7-8yr old softball squad. I figured it would be the next group to have that. You're right about taking consideration to whether it discourages kids from playing at a young age. For my daughters sake i'm thankful she's playing well enough as it seems to be encouraging her to compete and practice. I'm not sure about some other girls. One mom, who is a dugout mom, posted on facebook about her daughter maybe playing for another county next year. Either because her daughter didn't make it or because of someother reason.
     
  21. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Agreed on it not being worth saying something. Too early in process to do that, it's after the main season, and it's more likely to negatively impact her future than help it. Wait until she's 9 before you start complaining (LOL).

    Sounds like your daughter has a healthy and enthusiastic attitude toward the situation. This will serve her well in the future. As is usually the case, she'll forget about any percieved or real slight or unfairness well before you do. Try to minimize any conversations with her, or heard by her, that will cause that issue to come up again in her mind.

    Also note the selection process is a mere snapshot in time, made by non professional volunteers with biases and deficiencies in skill analysis. The coach's kid may be into dancing or swimming by the time HS tryouts roll around. Your job, if this is important to you, is to do all you can to be sure your girl loves the game as much as when the season ends as when the season begins. This should also be the coaches' goal. Let her own desires and whims and loves be the main impetus behind how long and how hard she plays the sport. How that is done is a somewhat of a minefield/maze/obstacle course at times, but as you get more experienced, you will get better at it. If you can and want to, become a coach and get involved in the process. But if you do, remember why you started this thread as you coach your non-family members.
     
  22. LoweTek

    LoweTek Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    To answer the question about picking the all-star team in my league, to their credit they have actually tried to remove some of the bias.

    In this area we select two all-star teams, an "A" team and a "B" team. The difference is the A Team is playing for district, regional and national championship levels and requires a much larger potential financial commitment from parents. The B Team will play in a tournament or two within driving distance.

    Each team in the league sends two manager/coaches to assess kids at a tryout. The kids participating in the tryout have been nominated by their own coaches, up to five per team. The players are run through fielding (grounder and pop-up), catching, hitting and running. Each coach participating has a sheet to score each of the five categories 1 through 5, with 5 being best and 25 the theoretical highest a kid could score.

    The scores are totaled and averaged. The top eight average scores make the A team. The coaches select four remaining members of the A team and all of the B team. The top eight players all 'played up.' so the outcome was all but forgone. I did not know this prior to the tryout and likely would not have participated if I did.

    They disclose the scores only to the all-star coaches not to all participating coaches. I had a problem with this and suggested to the league it may help with transparency if they would release them. The idea didn't go over very well.

    On the bright side, my scouting reports tell me the A Team is very good actually but I have not seen them yet. None of my kids were selected for the A Team. I have three on the B squad though.
     
  23. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    You might be right. I encouraged him to go for majors because I wanted coaches who would really press on him to do the little things like backups, and in that aspect, it worked. I told him he'd be at the bottom of the totem pole and he was prepared to not pitch at all, but that changed once the coach said he would get in there at some point. And there was quite bit of opportunity; the "good" kids don't pitch that much due to AAU (which is another issue, the guy has cancelled practice two weeks in a row so he could be with son's AAU team), so there were quite a few innings to go around. The last game, we weren't trying to win, he brought in all of the "lesser" kids in to pitch except my son, who didn't even get into the IF (in previous games he has gotten an inning at 2B). My son isn't great, but he was good enough to make majors (not everyone did), and he he made the 10 yr old all star team, so he was clearly good enough where the guy could have thrown him a bone, especially since he had already told him that he would.

    But as mentioned, not much to do about except to call it a life lesson. He'll get more out of all-stars (where I expect he'll be on the lesser side of the roster and that's fine) than he did the entire season, so there's that.
     
  24. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I don't understand why coaches cancel practices due to having a conflict. Don't they have assistants for that, especially all star teams? Maybe it's a control thing?
     
  25. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    This was regular season team practice, not all star. I think his two assistants also had AAU commitments. This last week he said it was because only 5/6 kids would be showing up; I've seen many practices with that few kids and they go just fine, so that's BS.
     
    #25 moondog80, Jun 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  26. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Gotcha. Sometimes the best baseball/softball practices are the ones with half the team.
     
  27. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    Agree. It was especially bad given the kids who would have been at practice were the kids who needed it the most -- the non-AAU kids.
     
  28. RIFan

    RIFan Member SoSH Member

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    My advice is to get used to what you perceive as injustice. Everyone is so emotionally involved in seeing their child successful that no one is ever in a rational place when selections are done. Everyone has hidden biases that that have no clue they are falling back on. As a parent, recognize that your child is never as good as how you see them. The coaches have their biases as well both with what they see in their child and what skills or attributes they see in players. It only gets worse as they get older. Come to peace with it now and enjoy them having fun participating in a sport regardless of outcome or it will drive you insane.
     
  29. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Oh I'm good. I'm not going to let it drive me crazy. Letting it out here is therapeutic since I'm not going to do it on the field or to the other parents or coaches. However tonight they did hitting and my girl really scorched the ball. She threw out her counter part that starts over her from third. Which is fairly exceptional for their age group. She out played her at third and out hit her by far.

    To top it off there was one grouchy mother complaining under her breath about the two alternates. When they came up to hit she shouted out to the coach asking how many kids were on the team and how many were alternates. Trying to make a point about them practicing with the team. What a bitch. She was also complaining about another girls performance. People are so cut throat
     
  30. biollante

    biollante Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Youth sports are messed up. It isn't you.
     
  31. Bowhemian

    Bowhemian Member SoSH Member

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    Fixed that for you.
     
  32. PaulinMyrBch

    PaulinMyrBch Don't touch his dog food Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'm seriously thinking of showing up at the next practice, but I'm assuming its nowhere near the 843. That's totally normal, psycho mom reacting because hers is looking bad. But I've got some peanut gallery comments I never used when my son was playing and I've been sitting on them waiting for an opportunity. She'd go full psycho, but letting her know the alternates are outperforming half of the starters at the top of my lungs isn't beyond my level of asshole.

    In all seriousness, sounds like untrained idiot moms are noticing your daughter is looking good. I wouldn't be surprised if the coach finds some way to see to it she's in the squad of 12. Stay the course, strange things happen. My money is on someone quitting.
     
  33. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

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    In our town, youth sports in general are surprisingly sane. Soccer & basketball are pretty laid back and fun - and my kid doesn't do youth football, but folks I know who are involved in that have nothing but positive things to say about their kids' experience with that. Baseball/softball though - holy shit that brings out the crazy. And All-Star season brings out all sorts of extra special crazy. So of course baseball's the one I've chosen to involve myself with. I am pretty sure I will hate every parent in town by the time my kid ages out of Little League. I figure my job is to insulate the kids as best I can from the crazy so they can have fun on the field - tho some days I worry that might mean orphaning a few kids.
     
  34. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah I was told after second practice that the head coach, that made the call to pick the other girl over my daughter, said she wished she had picked my girl. This came from the other coach, my daughters reg season coach.

    And tonight another enjoyable practice with my daughter making me proud on the field.

    The coach is a nice guy and never in a million years would believe he did that.
     
    #34 garlan5, Jun 8, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
  35. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    We're going to try youth hockey this year. We're an hour away but the league looks great and parents the seem really happy with it
     
  36. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    Never done hockey but from what I can tell hockey teams tend to be relatively close knit.
     
  37. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    We've heard great things about this league. It's going to be a haul for a five year old. But the program seems tailored to new young kids with zero ice experience
     
  38. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    Great advice. I say this as a guy who selects a lot of basketball teams. Parents whose kids were on the teams last year think that kids who were on the team last year should get preference. Parents whose kids weren't on teams last year think we give kids who were on teams last year too much preference. Parents of non-soccer players think we favor soccer players, parents of soccer players think we have a thing against soccer players. We don't so any of these things.

    There are a lot of great things about youth sports, there are a lot of things that suck and some of those things you're never going to change.
     
  39. robssecondjob

    robssecondjob Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Fact. I was officiating a soccer playoff game last night and there was one particularly loud mother. Shrill and constant. About halfway through the first half on of the girls came up to me during a stoppage of play and apologized for her mother's behavior. The 12 year old knew right and wrong. This player was everything right about youth sports. She wasn't the best player, but she tried really hard and made a positive difference for her team. If I could have, I would have been cheering for her.

    There was a screw up on a substitution late in the game, dead ball so no real issue, but shrill mom screamed for a penalty shot over and over. I wanted to toss her out, but her daughter's behavior saved her. She got a gentle warning.

    They lost and you won't be shocked to learn in the parking lot she made it clear to everybody, "We would have won if the ref knew the rules". Poor kid.
     
  40. Omar's Wacky Neighbor

    Omar's Wacky Neighbor Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Now image if you were just 12 or 14 years old, with both AYSO and USSF certification.......
     
  41. robssecondjob

    robssecondjob Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I have spent many of my assignments this season as an AR for well certified and qualified young teen centers who have had issues with parents and coaches. I always take the parent sideline and I make it very clear to the coaches during check-in how they will behave with the younger refs. Coaches have been good. Parents have been mixed at best.
     
  42. robssecondjob

    robssecondjob Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Baseball all-star selections this week for us. Eight through tens have tryouts, elevens and twelves are coach nominated. Should be interesting.
     
  43. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    My league has already done selections. The 9/10 team is 60% the same from last year. Last year mostly 9 year olds, this year mostly 10 year olds. I guess they decided to have a two year run with the same core of kids, which fine except that it kind of screws the kids who were 10 last year, and 9 this year. I'm not complaining because my 10 year old made it this year (did not last year) but if this is how it goes every year I'd be pissed of my kid was born in a year off the cycle.
     
  44. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

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    Our 9-10 team will have 7 or 8 returnees as well (we had eight 9's and four 10's last year - a couple 10's opted out leaving us with a young team). The fun twist is that LL has made 10's eligible for the 11-12 team this year, so the two teams are fighting over the kid who would be the #1 catcher on the 9-10 team, but will be a 2 inning RFer on the 11-12 team. And of the new kids on the 9-10 team - only one or two will be 9's so they'll be pretty much starting from scratch next year (I hope next year's 9's are good, cuz the current 9's are a thin crop).
     
  45. riboflav

    riboflav Member SoSH Member

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    Wait... there are all star teams for 7-year olds? Who the hell is an all star at 7? What am I missing?

    I mean what does an all star 7-year old look like? What advanced softball skills do they have?

    It's all motor skills at that age. I don't get it.
     
  46. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    For my girls league the girls that catch fly balls, field hard ground balls, throw hard to the bag, and hit it to the outfield. These girls catch the ball being thrown to them at the bag.

    Edit: what are you suggesting. 7 to 8 years old should not have all stars or a7 year old isn't good enough?

    Basically the same thing as minor league boys 7 to 8 years old. We have two 6 year old girls that are good enough but can't due to age rules
     
    #46 garlan5, Jun 9, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  47. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    Really, the 11-12 would take that kid from the 9-10? Our league picks 11-12, then 9-10, then 10-11.
     
  48. riboflav

    riboflav Member SoSH Member

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    Yes, there should not be all stars at age 7.


    EDIT: So, it's a celebration of advancedish motor skills and biological/genetic early advancement. Yay. It means absolutely nothing. I don't get youth sports at all.
     
    #48 riboflav, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  49. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    So whats the cut off age for allstars. MLB? Thats a really odd take. Should there be allstars at age 8? This is an age 7-8 league. If 7 year olds werent allowed then we wouldnt be able to field a team. And quite frankly unfair to the 7 year olds who are just as good as the 8 year olds. Heck there are 7 year olds better than some 9 year olds. These kids are getting a lot out of the extra practice and tournament and my kids isn't even allowed to play in the tournament as a alternate. It's valuable to her development.

    This isnt even the point of this thread, i'd prefer not to derail it. I didnt' make the rule to allow youth allstars. Someone did long before 1979 when i was born.
     
  50. Lou Lucier

    Lou Lucier lurker

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    My first post here and I choose to waste it ripping on some yokel who:
    a) Thinks an all-star team for 7 year olds is a good idea,
    b) Thinks an all-star team for 7 year olds that makes a poor little girl serve as a healthy scratch is a good idea,
    c) Thinks that subjecting his daughter to this type of bullish!t is good for her 'development'

    Thank you. You're welcome.

    And you're going to be a perfect hockey parent, from what it sounds like ...
     

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