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Worst Ref Stories

Discussion in 'Coaches Corner' started by riboflav, May 17, 2015.

  1. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    669
    Agreed. It's all about the tournament making more $$$, if you can fit two courts where there should only be one, more games = more $$$.

    AAU should have/enforce some standards for court sizes, lines and space between courts/walls, space for spectators etc. But I can see how this is difficult to do and AAU doesn't seem like they have much infrastructure to do this.

    It's too bad there isn't someplace online to look at for feedback/reviews on every AAU club and every AAU tournament and every court used by AAU tournament organizers.
     
  2. Omar's Wacky Neighbor

    Omar's Wacky Neighbor Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    7,481
    OK, this is kind of cool: my 17 y/o son is assigned to CR a U14 rec semifinal game, and his AR1 is a USSF grade 7 college ref.

    (they swap positions for the final later today)
     
  3. robssecondjob

    robssecondjob Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    604
    How did it go? The first time I ever did a game as center with more senior guys on the lines for me it was terrifying.
     
  4. bsj

    bsj Renegade Crazed Genius SoSH Member

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    16,960
    I had the worst ref ever this week. My team entered the 4th down 4. On 3 consecutive possessions he missed glaring fouls on the same kid. On one, he was sandwiched by two kids that hit him on a shot from different sides. On the last, my player came out of the game bleeding he was hit so hard on a shot. Then the same ref, after the game slipped to double digits in the final minute, ended the game early because he didnt like we were fouling when trying to steal the ball. "I dont want them hurting each other".

    They were 100% not violent fouls. In fact, I dont even tell them to foul because they you get shoves and possible injuries. I teach them how to try to steal and it is all about the arms and facing the opponent. Worst case is simple fouls, we were going to take one more shot at a missed FT on a one and one and maybe a 3. If we didnt have a perfect storm of events in the next 5 seconds I was gonna call it all off. He decided for me. SMH
     
  5. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,425
    A question - to what extend is there a reasonable expectation that basketball refs should be good at their jobs? The answer depends upon lots of factors (level (HS varsity vs. rec league), experience, etc. Is there any training requirements for scholastics level stuff? Our local HS rec league has adults reffing, and its just baaaaaaaad. My son's 7-8 grade rec league games are ref'd by the town's varsity HS players (boys and girls), and they do about as decent a job as you could expect.

    I know the NBA guys look bad sometimes, and some of them all the time, so perhaps it's just the nature of the game.
     
  6. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    669
    I refereed youth rec games when I was in Middle School through HS as a volunteer. I cared a lot more than most of the adults I see now getting paid to officiate games and I did a much better job because of that. Don't get me wrong, there are adults who get paid and do a great job, they're just in the minority.

    The IAABO patch https://www.iaabo.org/ shows that they are certified but that's no guarantee of quality.

    It's not that difficult to referee rec/travel games 4-8. IF you start the game by blowing the whistle and calling some fouls and violations. It's when referees try to get by calling as little as possible that it almost always escalates.

    I'm currently coaching 5th grade (4th kid) We get lots of guys who just call out of bounds and shooting fouls and the games become more wrestling match than basketball. We also had one game where they called 32 fouls on the other team. Part of the problem is that a lot of coaches have no idea what NFHS rules especially around illegal contact on the ball handler, so they don't teach good legal defense.

    It's an awful cycle because then the referees don't enforce the rules to make the coaches teach the right way. A lot of time, the most successful teams in 4th-5th-6th grade are the teams that foul the most (and usually don't have it called). That's not a good prescription for long term success though.

    The best way to look at it is to teach the players to control what they can control and not worry about the stuff they can't. It's frustrating but in the end a very important life lesson.
     
  7. Humphrey

    Humphrey Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    690
    Coached/watched my daughter 8-9 years (it went fast) ago in an in-town program. My lasting memory of officiating (by high school basketball players that should have known better) was watching kids on some teams try to set a pick and have the "pick" look like tiny Joe Thuney's set up to block an onrushing defensive lineman. Or, in some cases, act like a pulling guard. And, in the spirit of the level of competition, I would speak to the officials and tell them in so many words, "you don't have to call a foul, just tell the kids they can't set a pick like that". Didn't help.
     
  8. Omar's Wacky Neighbor

    Omar's Wacky Neighbor Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,481
    The one hoops ref moment I'll always remember is seeing a jump ball called when two players tied up a loose ball with equal possession. Yup, both players were on the same team.
     
  9. Humphrey

    Humphrey Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    690
    I guess that's better than in soccer, where the rule book states you can eject a player for punching another player....and specifies it doesn't matter if the other player is an opponent or a teammate!
     
  10. swiftaw

    swiftaw Member SoSH Member

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    1,898
    See Lee Bowyer, Kieran Dyer, Newcastle
     
  11. Omar's Wacky Neighbor

    Omar's Wacky Neighbor Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,481
    That was covered in my Grade 8 class and subsequent recert classes. I've proctored a number of Grade 9 classes, can't recall if it was covered there as well.
     
  12. robssecondjob

    robssecondjob Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    604
    I had that one on a Grade 8 re-cert test! I came closest to seeing on the pitch in a JV boys match.
     
  13. Bleedred

    Bleedred Member SoSH Member

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    6,930
    I think that this is the key to being a good official, at any level below college. My son is a Junior in HS and it drives me crazy how much the officials allow the primary defender of the point-guard to hand check without any calls. The problem seems to be that the officials feel like calling hand checks will cause them to make 15 calls. What they should do IMO is call the first hand checks early in the game and let the point guards and the coaches know that they are going to call those fouls, so keep your hands off the dribbler. This becomes particularly important in HS games when games are tight and a team is trying to pressure the ball. If that pressure is permitted and the defender has his hands all over the player, then not making those calls can determine the outcome of games. As Heinie notes, it reinforces terrible defensive principles for the youth level as well.
     
  14. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

    Messages:
    4,750
    I'll second Bleedred's endorsement of the bolded above. My son is in middle school - and the reffing is as wildly inconsistent as the quality of play. The games with refs that "let them play" almost invariably end up with some 4th quarter pushing & shoving and flagrant foul calls. The refs who blow the whistle early establish control of the game - and while nobody really wants to watch a bunch of 13-14yr olds clang free throws off the rim, it's better than watching them try to elbow eachother's teeth out.
     
  15. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    669
    Exactly! And it ALWAYS escalates and then the offensive pushes off a bit to equalize the advantage the defense is getting and now the referees are making up their own rules instead of enforcing rules as written. Credit the NFHS for making these rules and making them points of emphasis a few years ago. They should make them points of emphasis again.

    And don't even get me started on intentional fouls at the end of games. I saw a defender in a JV game last night put two hands on an opponent's back and shove him to the ground and have it called a one and one?!?!?! Less than a minute left. The rulebook (or maybe casebook) literally says the officials must have the courage to call those sorts of fouls intentional.
     
  16. section15

    section15 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    120
    I was a season ticket holder at the Celtics games from 1973 until 1991, and gave them up (high price, Larry Bird was on the roster but his playing days were done) .... but I can recall numerous situations that occurred, which prompted me to yell "hey ref, are you goin' for the Sol Levy*** award?" And this was BEFORE Tim Donaghy.


    Sol Levy = refereed games in the early 50s NBA. Was dismissed in 1953 when it was learned he took allegedly took bribes to affect the outcome of three games. (from 24 Seconds to Shoot - Leonard Koppett - 1970). Convicted, went to jail, was released on a technicality.

    More on it here http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/3690/when-an-nba-referee-was-convicted-of-shaving-points
     
  17. section15

    section15 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    120
    I once saw an NBA game - where the Celtics had a call go in their favor, and a ref decided to "even 'em up". So on the next sequence he blows the whistle "Three Seconds".

    Heinsohn goes ballistic. He goes over to the scorer's table. He wants to see the game log....it was something like this =

    10:03 = Boston gets possession on out of bounds call.
    10:01 = Boston, three second violation.

    Do you see what is wrong here? For the record, the ref reversed his call.
     

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