Will Middlebrooks: Now or never
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mabrowndog said:
I don't really see how this is a fair comparison. That guy seems to have bled recently; Middlebrooks bled out a couple of years ago. He also looks a bit less injury-prone.
That's nothing.alwyn96 said:
Wombat's supposed to be a low-contact high-power hitter, right? JBJ (.291) has a better slugging percentage than WMB (.290).
In terms of isolated power, here's a list of players who hit with more power this year (min 130 PA):
Ortiz
Craig
Cespedes
Ross
Drew
Gomes
Bogaerts
Victorino
Sizemore
Pedroia
Holt
In fact, WMB's isolated power in AAA is worse than Drew's isolated power in the MLB this year.
At this point, he should be off the 40 man come November.
According to soxprospects he has another option left. I think it makes sense to start him in AAA next year. But yeah, probably never going to be an average major leaguer.
The killer is, you just know that as soon as we release him, it's a matter of 2 or 3 years max before he's hitting 30 HR in Oakland.
...Savin Hillbilly said:
Sure, but if we don't release him, you also know that he'll never hit 5 HR in a season.
I'd rather have a 3B who hits better than JBJ and watch a formerly terrible 3B play well on a team that doesn't win in the playoffs vs. having a team that can't make the playoffs in part because our 3B is the worst (figuratively speaking).
gammoseditor said:
I imagine, unless there is a team out there willing to give something of value for him, that the Sox will attempt to retain control as long as he fits reasonably on the 40-man. He could start at Pawtucket and get daily at bats while working on something like defensive flexibility (OF, 1B, or even 2B) to enhance his value/utility. As long as he isn't getting in the way of a real prospect or clogging up the 40-man roster, why not see if he breaks out offensively again in Pawtucket, and then either call him up, or sell him.
Given the totality of Will's performance in MLB as well as the minors, I think we know what we have with him. I'd rather give Cecchini or someone else a chance at the corner, and really want no part of him being in the fold for 2015.
doubtful.Savin Hillbilly said:
Brandon Moss and the rest of the Oakland Sox were never this BAD.
WMB should get eyeglasses, go to Pawtucket next season till he gets use to the glasses and starts producing.
Cecchini should be up getting at-bats at the Major League level now.
You know how sometimes you're watching a fight, and you're hoping that the ref or the corner stops it 'cause one guy has no chance...he keeps going out there and getting hit, but basically, he's just trying to survive 'til it's over? I feel that way when I see WMB in "action". Time to find/invent an injury, shut him down, and hope (probably vainly, but still...) that there are better days somewhere down the road.
benhogan said:
He should start wearing the glasses daily in the offseason, and then start hitting with them a month before Spring Training. It was unrealistic to think that this could be an in-season adjustment.
I agree that he can't be plan A for anything next season. But he has an option left, so we shouldn't cut ties with him yet.
Where will we play him? I don't think we have room for him at AAA. Garin Cecchini should probably still be playing third base next year, and will need regular playing time.nvalvo said:
Not to mention Sean Coyle .. While primarily a 2b , as with Betts, that path is completely blocked. Coyle played quite a bit of 3b this year and he will be in AAA next year. Coyle may play 2b at Pawtucket .. He seems an excellent B- prospect trade chip.EricFeczko said:
I think WMB will get traded to some team that thinks they have a miracle cure for what ails him (laser surgery , contacts, glasses , a new hitting coach)
Unfortunately there won't be much coming back.
In fact the Red Sox organization is positively oozing 2b prospects .. Betts, Coyle, Asuage, Rijo. Go figure
(Although Asuage may now be considered a 3bman)
Which reminds me .. We have had three promising rookies play for the Sox this year and all three have struggled mightily .. Four if you count Vazquez. How much of this on Colbrun? I understand that rookies can struggle but it seems that when they start to struggle it just gets worse and worse and worse. Even the veterans .. Nava is an excellent example. It took him three months before he got his stroke back.
Betts is the only one of the lot who has looked promising .. Let's hope he never slumps cause the odds are good he stays slumped.
Betts is the only one of the lot who has looked promising .. Let's hope he never slumps cause the odds are good he stays slumped.
It's remarkable how quick people are to write off players in this day and age, when there's significant data staring us in the face that OFFENSIVE ROOKIES / YOUNG PLAYERS IN THEIR FIRST YEAR OR TWO WILL STRUGGLE.mabrowndog said:
With my Chicago buddies, I literally can't listen to them when it comes to Javier Baez. It's insufferable. Same thing goes here.
Is Holt one of your promising rookies? Or are we only counting highly touted rookies and not other guys who probably just figured it out on their own?BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
Each game, it gets worse. I can only imagine what's going on in his head right now. I don't see a trace of improvement that would suggest he can get out of this rut in 2014.
I'd shut him down completely, BTW, what's the back story on glasses? Did he have a vision test, then refuse to wear the prescribed glasses? I missed it completely.
I'd shut him down completely, BTW, what's the back story on glasses? Did he have a vision test, then refuse to wear the prescribed glasses? I missed it completely.
At the same time here are Holt's second half numbers: 227/292/262 (and that doesnt include last night's 0 for 6). You can now say hes struggling (for a while now), and hasn't made his next adjustment yet.Lose Remerswaal said:
He can already realistically be asked to play 1B, 3B, or DH. The club was talking about having him take time in the OF during his lat AAA assignment. Cecchini has continued to take reps in the OF even after WMB's call up too, so lets not go assuming the club is 100% sure Cecchini can stick at 3B long term himself.EricFeczko said:
I wouldn't trade Middlebrooks at this point, his value is just too low for what he might be able to achieve if everything comes together for him. All they'll be able to get back is another lottery ticket with longer odds than Will's of paying off. That makes no sense. Let him play out his option next season in AAA with glasses/laser surgery/whatever to get him right and see what he does.
As for how he fits, a AAA roster like this would work:
C1 - Swihart
1B - Shaw
2B - Coyle
3B - Cecchini
SS - Marrero
LF - ????
CF - Bradley
RF - Brentz
DH - ????
Lavarnway and Hassan are questions to remain with the organization. Lavarnway will be out of options, Hassan will have one left I believe, at 27. The only guys in AA who haven't been called up and could make a good argument for starting 2015 in AAA or getting an early season promotion would be Keury De La Cruz and Henry Ramos. Ramos only played in 48 AA games this year before a season ending injury, De La Cruz had a poor first half in AA before really raking the last month. He has also had a huge normal platoon split (LHB) each of the last two years.
I don't think it would be hard to envision WMB or Cecchini taking the majority of the starts in LF next year, or splitting DH and 3B. Middlebrooks would be a far more likely piece to get worthwhile return on than another Corey Brown/Brandon Snyder type and he doesn't cost anything. Better than than moving him for some AAAA reliever (of which we have too many already) and then spending extra cash to get some other late 20's/early 30's journeyman has been or never was to eat up those extra AAA ABs.
Lose Remerswaal said:
WMB, Bogaerts, JBJ and Vazquez
I would not have considered Holt a highly touted prospect. He's a good utility player who had a nice hot streak, But of course, his decline fits this trend as well
Garin Cecchini still needs to prove he can consistently hit AAA pitching. He's had one good month after 3 straight terrible ones. Why are people calling for him to be promoted already?EricFeczko said:
mabrowndog said:
My complaint isn't with slumps - it's with the fact that X (before last week - the week off seems to have made a world of difference), WMB and JBJ basically went into Death Spirals. JBJ can't even hit in AAA now. I doubt if Middlebrooks could even hit decent college pitching.
When a team goes from the best offense in the league to the worst don't you think coaching should shoulder some of the blame? Particularly with the youngsters who need it the most.
So what's the solution ? Put all these guys back in Pawtucket next year? If the gulf between AAA and MLB is so large what's to be gained by learning how to hit AAA pitching.
That Gammons piece is a typical overreaction to observed random phenomenon. Several highly touted rookies struggle - so there must be a global cause for these struggles. Is the AAA/MLB "gulf" vastly different than it was last year? Does this gulf only apply to hitters? Don't teams shift in AAA? If advanced scouting techniques quickly illuminate a rookie's flaws shouldn't those same techniques apply to illuminating the pitcher's flaws?
In point of fact, of that list - of the really hot shot guys - only X and Taveras could be said to have truly struggled - Springer is doing just fine as has Baez. None of the rest were supposed to set the world on fire anyways.
Most of the effects Farrell points out have been gradually building for several years and affect all players - not just rookies.
What I am saying (rather badly) is that each of these guys are individuals and have very good personal reasons for struggling - both mental and physical. I suspect the mental part of it is the main culprit. Months and months of professional failure on the biggest stage available has to have a pretty serious affect on performance. This is where coaching comes in. Or not - which would be my complaint,
The alternative is to suggest that MLEs are going to have to be severely adjusted. That most rookies - regardless of pedigree - will struggle. And competitive teams will be rather restricted when it comes to breaking in rookies.
Maybe the MLB wide drop in offense has simply led to unfair expectations. If the average OPS is now .700, a rookie posting a .650 line isn't so bad?
Its one thing to struggle, its another thing to perform as perhaps the worst offensive player in baseball as JBJ did and as Xander has for much of the season. Of course many players struggle adjusting to the minors, but with JBJ the struggle has been so large as to indicate that he simply may not be able to hit at this level. And he's not so young that you can shrug it off as due to age. Xander at least has the excuse of still be unusually young to be in the majors.knucklecup said:
djhb20 said:
But what has he done for us lately?
Wood's career .186/.225/.289 line makes Jackie Bradly JR look like an offensive behemoth.
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 1m
The Red Sox would like Will Middlebrooks to play in winter ball, to get turned around. They have told other teams they won't give him away.
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/507207755518996481
The Red Sox would like Will Middlebrooks to play in winter ball, to get turned around. They have told other teams they won't give him away.
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/507207755518996481
After the sizzling start, he's now at .175/.208/.383 in 120 AB while striking out 42% of the time.BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
The last story I heard was that he didn't like wearing contact lenses. For astigmatism you do need hard lenses which can be uncomfortable. The other thing about astigmatism is that contacts often result in a better correction than from glasses.Otis Foster said:
Poor eyesight could explain his failures at the plate but it brings up the question as to whether there's been a deterioration in his vision since 2012.
Watching him the last few games it seems he can't even see the ball in the first place. He's been taking all kinds of grooved pitches for called strikes. It's like he has completely lost his confidence and is afraid to swing.
Right, which is why you try to stash him in AAA one more year and see what happens. I don't see why we should collectively expect that every player is exactly who he is/will be in the first 2-3 years of his career. Of course, WMB may never amount to much at the major league level, but if there's a way to wait a little longer (and at this point it's probably not major league at-bats), then it's worth trying.Savin Hillbilly said:
I wish we had a system of loaning players like they do in soccer. We could send him to San Diego to get ML at-bats while retaining the right to him once he figures it out.
With hitting down all over baseball, it only makes statistical sense that rookies would be hitting worse than ever.
As for WMB, I still think a good part of his problem is mental. He seems like he has no idea what pitchers are going to throw to him (when even the viewer can sometimes predict it), and that he goes up with no plan. Compound that with poor pitch recognition and mechanics and you have a recipe for disaster. His vision can be fixed...but can his brain?
As for WMB, I still think a good part of his problem is mental. He seems like he has no idea what pitchers are going to throw to him (when even the viewer can sometimes predict it), and that he goes up with no plan. Compound that with poor pitch recognition and mechanics and you have a recipe for disaster. His vision can be fixed...but can his brain?
chrisfont9 said:
Except the concept of loaning players to teams in the same league (with interleague play they're all the same league) is .. well .. nuts.
Maybe to Japan - with a sell on fee of course.
Yeah, well, it's a little odd, but in Italy at least they will loan out the guy to a squad they don't fear. Or overseas, preferably.BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
They do the same in England. Chelsea supposedly has over 100 million pounds worth of players out on loan :
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/premier-league-chelseas-100m-army-loan-across-world-095420930--sow.html
At least the "loaned" player can't play against his masters.
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