Wicked Smart: Celtics select Marcus Smart with No. 6 pick
- Thread starter TheYellowDart5
- Start date
I posted this in the draft thread the other day, but if you want a good write-up on Smart, and a reason to get excited about him, this is a good place to start:
http://deanondraft.com/2014/02/28/marcus-smart-an-intelligent-defensive-player/
Him and Bradly would be a pretty limited backcourt offensively, but they would wreck shit on defense.
http://deanondraft.com/2014/02/28/marcus-smart-an-intelligent-defensive-player/
Him and Bradly would be a pretty limited backcourt offensively, but they would wreck shit on defense.
Mr. OnDraft also thinks Smart is a better defender than Wiggins.
The realistic best case with him would be Kyle Lowry. The 99th percentile outcome would be Dwayne Wade.
The realistic best case with him would be Kyle Lowry. The 99th percentile outcome would be Dwayne Wade.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3L1jhyBxCI[/youtube]
Chad Ford last year on Orlando picking at #2:
Chad Ford last year on Orlando picking at #2:
I really liked all the guys who went top 5, and would have taken any of them over Smart. Wish someone bit on Vonleh and let one of them slide.
Having said that, I think Smart was the guy to take at #6, and am glad they didn't go Randle.
The most likely scenario for me is Tony Allen with better ball handling. Not sure I agree with the Kyle Lory comp. Lowy was 6'0 175 lb coming out of college, and shot 44% from 3 as a sophomore. Smart is 6'3" (6'9" wingspan), 225 lb, and can't shoot.
I guess Lowry has gotten stockier in the NBA and bulls his way to the rim a bit like Smart, but I still think they have different strengths and weaknesses.
Having said that, I think Smart was the guy to take at #6, and am glad they didn't go Randle.
The most likely scenario for me is Tony Allen with better ball handling. Not sure I agree with the Kyle Lory comp. Lowy was 6'0 175 lb coming out of college, and shot 44% from 3 as a sophomore. Smart is 6'3" (6'9" wingspan), 225 lb, and can't shoot.
I guess Lowry has gotten stockier in the NBA and bulls his way to the rim a bit like Smart, but I still think they have different strengths and weaknesses.
I don't like that he is a poor shooter. How can you play him and Bradley, or rondo together? I agree with the above comment about a big drop to this guy from the top 5.
DannyDarwinism said:
The Tryeke Evans comparison seems very apt offensively. Smart's success will come down to whether he develops his jumper or not, everything else is in place. I'm not one who likes to gamble on that type of thing, and I've been relatively vocal about that here, but it would seem the Celtics are confident they can solve that problem. I would have preferred Vonleh, but outside of that I can't really complain.
Was really hoping one of Exum or Embiid would be there at 6. Losing that coin flip to the Jazz really sucked.
Yeah. But it never should have come to that. When you tank, you tank. This year's pick should never have been lower than 4.repole said:
The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa said:
In case it wasn't clear, they didn't tank this year. They were bad, and didn't go out of their way to add veterans or mortgage the future to make incremental improvements.
But within that framework, they were trying to win. They didn't tank poorly, they just sucked.
radsoxfan said:
I argued that before the season, the Celtics had arguably the worst talent of any franchise in the league. And that's before accounting for injuries to Rondo.
Turns out that their talent was probably more like the 3rd worst. Coaching and motivation made some more of the difference, but not all that much.
I would rather have Smart over Exum. Exum might end up being good, but lets face it, he climbed up the board above guys like Smart and Randle because those guys were actually playing real games while Exum was in Australia. Exum is such a mystery, and people seem to think he is going to be Penny Hardaway, but we just don't know.
Here is what we know about Smart:
- Big, physical PG that can bully his way into the rim. Great body for a PG.
- Lock down defender, extremely destructive on that side of the floor.
- Everyone agreed that he was the most competitive player in the draft, someone that goes all out all the time.
- Inconsistent shooter.
- Struggles with maturity.
I just love the fact that he is so competitive. I think if you combine that competitive fire with solid coaching, I think he can improve his shooting ability so he can become at least an average jump shooter. I'm very high on this pick, but I am concerned how things are going to work out with Rondo+Bradley. If you need any thing to get excited about, just watch how he opened the 2013 season, murdering a very good Memphis backcourt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxXictCDDqA
Here is what we know about Smart:
- Big, physical PG that can bully his way into the rim. Great body for a PG.
- Lock down defender, extremely destructive on that side of the floor.
- Everyone agreed that he was the most competitive player in the draft, someone that goes all out all the time.
- Inconsistent shooter.
- Struggles with maturity.
I just love the fact that he is so competitive. I think if you combine that competitive fire with solid coaching, I think he can improve his shooting ability so he can become at least an average jump shooter. I'm very high on this pick, but I am concerned how things are going to work out with Rondo+Bradley. If you need any thing to get excited about, just watch how he opened the 2013 season, murdering a very good Memphis backcourt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxXictCDDqA
radsoxfan said:
That makes the outcome even worse, as there was no reason not to tank. It was not a roster of young, promising prospects, or good veterans who might get disillusioned from losing. Their best player was not active for a large chunk of the season. Especially going into the season just about everyone expected this would be a once in a generation draft (even if in retrospect perhaps that was a bit of hyperbole). The benefits of trying to win (selling tickets? I dunno) just didn't outweigh the cost in talent, and tonight we see what that cost looks like (at least 2 draft positions, perhaps more), but hopefully the karma of trying to win will grace Boston for a change and make the Smart and Young selections bear fruit.
Both are approaching free agency without Ainge particularly inclined to overpay either to remain in Boston so this likely won't matter.reggiecleveland said:
As for Smart i wouldn't have chosen him here myself as i had Payton as my top PG for one but really don't like investing so high at a position with so many comparably talented players bouncing around (same reason i don't pay Rondo the ridiculous money hes asking).
I vehemently disagree with what I've heard way too many people say about Smart having a great PG body......he has a terrible PG body that figures to break down easier carrying that type of size over 82 game against quicks 40 lbs lighter than him. That's a lot of wear on your body at that weight when those you are competing against can do same while putting less stress on their body. Someone like Payton otoh has an ideal NBA PG body......lean, elastic, yet still strong enough.
I think Smart is a very safe pick as he should make it in the league as a rotation guy at the very least so there's that. When I'm picking this high I don't want to draft a PG for one or safe for two. If I was hell bent on a PG here it would have been Payton however I never pass on Vonleh the way this draft shook out. He's more talented and has a higher upside than both Sully and Olynyk.
I'm not "Holy crap I can't believe Sacramento drafted Bobby Hurley!" shocked or irate......but very disappointed because better prospects were available.
I like the pick, but I think to maximize Smart they need to immediately get him on the same workout & diet plan they put Kendrick Perkins on to slim him down. Smart is carrying about 10-20 extra pounds of fat (based on combine fat %). If he could lose that, apart from the wear & tear issue which I think is only really going to affect him a few years down the road, he will go from good NBA athlete w/ average PG quickness to great NBA athlete with good PG quickness.
I like that his floor is Tony Allen and his ceiling is slightly shorter PG version of D Wade.
I like Vonleh as a prospect too, but there were rumors that Ainge questioned his work ethic. I think we have to trust Danny b/c 1) he has so much more information than we do & a good track record and 2) the lottery is such a crapshoot anyway.
I like that his floor is Tony Allen and his ceiling is slightly shorter PG version of D Wade.
I like Vonleh as a prospect too, but there were rumors that Ainge questioned his work ethic. I think we have to trust Danny b/c 1) he has so much more information than we do & a good track record and 2) the lottery is such a crapshoot anyway.
One more piece that shouldn't be forgotten......Ainge was working to the last possible second to trade OUT of this pick. Any talk about how Smart was his man the whole way, we're lucky he was available, blah blah blah is complete and utter BS. He was looking to trade Smart before he even drafted him.
If this is true, it explains picking Smart a bit. A lot of boards had him as BPA, and that could make him a more moveable asset than, say, Randle or Vonleh.HomeRunBaker said:
Does drafting "safe" in this case make more sense from an "accumulating assets" point of view? If Smart makes an immediate positive impression in his first year maybe he can be part of a future deal where a draft bust would be worthless.HomeRunBaker said:
Flip said he wants NBA-ready impact player for Love. If Smart is Rondo-lite, he can facilitate and give the Wolves better offense while being a beast on D.Eddie Jurak said:
EDIT: To clarify, I'm talking max upside sales pitch here.
Offensively, Smart reminds me a bit of Baron Davis. Obviously, that's a high upside comparison and Smart likely won't be Baron Davis with better defense. But having precedent for a tall, thick PG with a sketchy shot who can get to the basket and finish despite not being lightning quick makes me optimistic.
I agree that he was the best player available, and I'm glad they didn't take Randle. Celtics' management's protests notwithstanding, I don't see how our four guards can play together. Three of them can't shoot. There has to be another move coming at some point. At the very least, it means Rondo isn't in the team's long term plans, even if he sticks around next year.
I agree that he was the best player available, and I'm glad they didn't take Randle. Celtics' management's protests notwithstanding, I don't see how our four guards can play together. Three of them can't shoot. There has to be another move coming at some point. At the very least, it means Rondo isn't in the team's long term plans, even if he sticks around next year.
CreightonGubanich said:
And to HRB's point, both Davis and Jason Kidd, who were both over 200 pounds, had a long NBA career without too many physical issues. And as was true with Gordon, if Smart could shoot, the Cs wouldn't get close to him. His release and arc look okay; there are some funky things going on before that and with his footwork but hopefully these are correctable.
Once the top 5 went off the board, I'm happy that DA took Smart over Vonleh. I don't think Vonleh gets on the floor this year because it's doubtful that he's going to be able to play NBA defense, especially in terms of rotations. (I also wonder if Exum can play NBA defense too.) Smart should be able to contribute right away, and from an asset-building POV, that's a lot better than a guy with potential who can't get off the bench.
Kidd was durable for sure but his game wasn't built on explosion like Smart and Davis as he was essentially a spot-up 3-point shooter the 2nd half of his career.wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Baron missed 199 games over his final 9 seasons due to a variety of injuries and was out of the game by age 32 from these injuries. This is precisely what I'm talking about and why I have concerns.
HomeRunBaker said:
If Smart is Baron Davis, is there anyone here who wouldn't sign up for that right now?
I'm not thrilled with this pick, before pick #1 this is exactly the guy I didnt want but after a night to sleep on it I have come to realize that this was probably the best player on the board. I'm going to list some positives and negatives as I see it:
+ Competitive nature, thats cool. And I'm a dork that love Wyc's 'Red told me we needed instigators'
- He cant shoot
+ We cant possibly resign Bradley (and I wanted no part of giving him $8M) because it would be very stupid to have 3 key guards who cant shoot
- I've had enough of PGs who cant shoot
+ I could live with the 2nd coming of Baron Davis if he was a little smarter and didnt demand to shoot as much as Baron
- He cant shoot
+ I wonder if Doc Rivers and Dennis Johnson are decent comparisons too. Those are guys who werent great shooters, were probably less athletic but were very competitive and impact players because their defense was above average.
+ His assist % is actually pretty good so I am hopeful he can be adequate at generating assists
+ Ditto on the floor statement, most of his best skills are going to translate to the NBA
+ Based on his strength I am very hopeful for him once he gets driving to the basket. If he can get enough separation to get there, he is going to draw a foul and possibly finish because he is very strong and can absorb hits (almost like Pierce). If he was teamed with a great shooting, but not great defending SG those 2 that could be a great complimentary combination. Which leads me to...
- He and Rondo are just not a great mix on the floor, both need a shooter at the 2 to help them out. The Celtics are far from a finished product and I dont think both of these guys are in their long-term plans, but while they are on the team I am seriously concerned that their inability to play together is going to impact both of them in a significant negative way. I think this stunt Smart's development and could drive down Rondo's value which sucks and is probably more concerning
There are a lot of positive things to like and there really isnt a player I am disappointed we didnt get because we took Smart, but man those negatives, and there arent that many, just absolutely suck. But if Rondo is shipped out for a shooting SG then suddenly a lot of these negatives go away and things will look much better.
+ Competitive nature, thats cool. And I'm a dork that love Wyc's 'Red told me we needed instigators'
- He cant shoot
+ We cant possibly resign Bradley (and I wanted no part of giving him $8M) because it would be very stupid to have 3 key guards who cant shoot
- I've had enough of PGs who cant shoot
+ I could live with the 2nd coming of Baron Davis if he was a little smarter and didnt demand to shoot as much as Baron
- He cant shoot
+ I wonder if Doc Rivers and Dennis Johnson are decent comparisons too. Those are guys who werent great shooters, were probably less athletic but were very competitive and impact players because their defense was above average.
+ His assist % is actually pretty good so I am hopeful he can be adequate at generating assists
+ Ditto on the floor statement, most of his best skills are going to translate to the NBA
+ Based on his strength I am very hopeful for him once he gets driving to the basket. If he can get enough separation to get there, he is going to draw a foul and possibly finish because he is very strong and can absorb hits (almost like Pierce). If he was teamed with a great shooting, but not great defending SG those 2 that could be a great complimentary combination. Which leads me to...
- He and Rondo are just not a great mix on the floor, both need a shooter at the 2 to help them out. The Celtics are far from a finished product and I dont think both of these guys are in their long-term plans, but while they are on the team I am seriously concerned that their inability to play together is going to impact both of them in a significant negative way. I think this stunt Smart's development and could drive down Rondo's value which sucks and is probably more concerning
There are a lot of positive things to like and there really isnt a player I am disappointed we didnt get because we took Smart, but man those negatives, and there arent that many, just absolutely suck. But if Rondo is shipped out for a shooting SG then suddenly a lot of these negatives go away and things will look much better.
Jimbodandy said:
If Smart is a smarter Davis who wont demand to shoot as much. Davis held some teams hostage because he really demanded to be 'the guy' that it all revolved around and he wasnt talented enough to be that guy. So talent wise absolutely, but attitude/ego wise absolutely not.
Smart isn't that right now. If he grows into Baron that's likely his ceiling. If injuries pretty much end his productive career at 27-28 then no, I wouldn't sign up for that.Jimbodandy said:
Re: Rondo and Smart coexisting...if Rondo is in the long-term plans, it probably means the likes of Smart and other young guys will be out the door for vets anyway.
. If Smart can be compared to DJ, you should be doing back-flips. Calling DJ above average defensively is a little bit of an understatement. DJ was a great defensive guard, who's offensive game was often over-looked, because he was that good on D.
If the story on Smart is he's a tough aggressive guard who wants to play D, he's a good pick.
I just don't like the Marcus Banks vibe I'm getting off of him, but he's so substantially bigger that you hope he can work out quite differently. But the in your face defense, strength, and dribble drive to contact are all so damn similar.
There are probably a bunch of ways this comparison doesn't work, but the ghots haunt me there. Although, to be honest, I'm not sure how/why Banks didn't become at least a good backup for a longer period.
There are probably a bunch of ways this comparison doesn't work, but the ghots haunt me there. Although, to be honest, I'm not sure how/why Banks didn't become at least a good backup for a longer period.
I disagree with this (conceptually at least). Smart doesn't have to play PG on defense any more than Magic Johnson had to (since he had Byron Scott to handle that for him). If Smart is being paired with Rondo or Bradley, he'll be playing the SG on defense (and playing the PG on offense when next to Bradley). Going forward, assuming Rondo is not in the long term plans, Smart is the PG. But defensively, it'll be easy enough to pair him with Bradley, or any undersized SG who can defend PGs (those guys aren't hard to find). I have no question that Smart can be a lock-down defender on SGs while running the offense.HomeRunBaker said:
And this only matters if you buy into the theory that Smart will break down defending PGs, which isn't guaranteed. Even if it were to happen, it's pretty doubtful that it will happen on his rookie contract with Boston. But it's also entirely possible that Smart is just a freak who will be able to handle the assignment. Believe me, I get what you're saying and at one point I would have agreed with you...but for the past few years I've been waiting for LeBron to break down as a 6'9", 260lb SF who (except for small ball lineups) is pretty much guarding guys 30lbs less than him night in and night out, while taking a ton of punishment on offense, plays deep into the playoffs every year, and plays olympic ball every four years. Is Smart a LeBron freak? It's easy to say no because LeBron is a once in a lifetime player. All the same though, Smart has some rare traits himself.
At the end of the day, all these physical Smart comps are meaningless. None of these guys entered the league as a 6'3"+, 227lb PG. Smart really is built like an NFL linebacker. Baron Davis might have gotten up to 227lbs later in his career, but that was only after blowing out his knee and blowing up buffet tables. While Smart's body fat is a little higher than it needs to be, he carries his weight pretty well right now. Will he 10 years from now at 30? Who knows but that's so far down the road as to not matter at this point.
As for the notion that Smart can't shoot, I totally disagree with those people. This isn't Rondo coming out of Kentucky. Smart's shot selection can be pretty awful at times, and he had no business jacking up 5+ threes a game, but he CAN shoot. It's not like his shot is broken or anything. He shot over 51% on 2pt shots, and he can make his free throws (and he gets to the line a lot). If you want to make a shooting comp, I'd say Russell Westbrook. Westbrook can definitely shoot, but his overall percentage isn't good and he takes too many ill-advised shots but it's not like you want to leave Westbrook open for jumpers all game. Smart's a good enough shooter where you have to guard him, and that's all you need to space the floor.
teddykgb said:
You son of a .....ch why did you have to say that. Ok, the 4 big differences I see are the size (as you mentioned), the strength, Smart was in the Big12 vs Banks' MWC conference, and with his attitude I cant see Smart losing his confidence as quickly as Banks did. But man that comparison really sucks.
I don't mind the Smart/Bradley backcourt as this allows Smart to defend scorers that best utilize his size defensively......that size is wasted playing off the ball defense once the PG initiates the offense.EL Jeffe said:
It's Rondo that is currently creating the logjam both position wise but leadership wise as well. Smart is an alpha dog type 1 personality leader from all I've read.....this is a recipe for disaster competing with Rondo to be the teams leader.
It's why I expect a Rondo trade sooner rather than later even if the return isn't optimal. His value simply isn't as great as many feel.
I was at UMass Boston in 2003 when Banks broke in. After watching him for 5 minutes it was fairly obvious to me that he would be a bust. I was sitting with a couple of coaches (one HS, one Div 2 college) and they felt the same way. He wasn't a good passer (no instincts) and his dribble was too high. Leo Papile worked his ass off to close the deal with Memphis to move up to select Banks, when they could have done absolutely nothing and taken David West. That draft is an object lesson as to why you take the BPA instead of trying to fill a need.
Actually I like Deron Williams as a comp for Smart. Smart doesn't shoot as well, but he's a better defender.
Actually I like Deron Williams as a comp for Smart. Smart doesn't shoot as well, but he's a better defender.
Thought this was a pretty good piece on Smart:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/big12/2013/01/22/mens-college-basketball-oklahoma-state-marcus-smart-profile/1850729/
Either way,he'll be a fun guy to root for.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/big12/2013/01/22/mens-college-basketball-oklahoma-state-marcus-smart-profile/1850729/
Either way,he'll be a fun guy to root for.
Brickowski said:
Banks wasn't the worst pick - after all, he did end earning $26M in his NBA career - but boy that draft was loaded. Just for fun, here are some of the players drafted after Banks.
Luke Ridnour
David West
Sasha Pavlović
Dahntay Jones
Boris Diaw
Travis Outlaw
Carlos Delfino
Kendrick Perkins
Leandro Barbosa
Josh Howard
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Willie Green
Zaza Pachulia
Keith Bogans
Matt Bonner
Mo Williams
James Jones
Kyle Korver
[SIZE=12pt][/hijack][/SIZE]
wutang112878 said:
I had thrown out a rich-man's Marcus Banks comp a couple of weeks ago, but it was mainly based on build. Banks put up similar numbers at UNLV (though Smart is a much better rebounder), but differences you note are significant enough to make the comparison pretty useless, in my opinion.
Incidentally, I was just looking at Eric Bledsoe as another comp- another combo guard many Celtics fans wanted to target as a Rondo replacement two years ago. Smart isn't as explosive as Bledsoe, but he's a better distributor, and his size should make him a more versatile defender. If it makes you feel better, nbadraft.net lists Marcus Banks as Eric Bledsoe's comparison.
You can add Steve Blake to the 2003 list. But there were some huge lottery busts as well: Darko of course, but also Mike Sweetney and Jarvis Hayes, who is currently the star of Quatars's national team. In fairness to Hayes, a couple of knee injuries basically ended his career, although it's not surprising that he had knee problems since by his third year he was almost as fat as Sweetney.
This really isn't a fair comparison. We were in dire need of a PG at the time and there were 4 of them graded in that range. Banks, Ridnour, Troy Bell and Reece Gaines. If we passed on one of them for one of the massive stretches on this list the city would have exploded.wade boggs chicken dinner said:
In that context if the reality it wasn't a terrible pick. Whoa we missed out on Ridnour! I'll live over that.
Interesting article on Boston drafting sophomore players: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/drafting-sophomores-is-a-smart-strategy-for-nba-teams/
This reasoning makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, it casts doubt on drafting James Young, who's biggest asset is being young for a freshman.ifmanis5 said: