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Who would YOU take at #3? And what's your backup plan?

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by Pxer, Jun 19, 2017.

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Who do YOU take at #3 for the Celtics?

Poll closed Jun 22, 2017.
  1. Lonzo Ball

    2.8%
  2. De'Aaron Fox

    2.3%
  3. Jonathan Isaac

    13.1%
  4. Josh Jackson

    11.2%
  5. Malik Monk

    0.9%
  6. Dennis Smith Jr.

    0.5%
  7. Jayson Tatum

    61.2%
  8. Trade down at all costs

    3.7%
  9. Trade for an NBA player at all costs

    4.2%
  1. Pxer

    Pxer Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,245
    Assume your top choice is available at #3. Who are you taking? Feel free to list your 2nd choice if your guy isn't available, because he gets taken at #2.

    I figured we could separate this to help measure the SoSH consensus and clearly outline the top options separate from the mega thread.
     
    #1 Pxer, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  2. Pxer

    Pxer Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,245
    Reluctantly, I've got Tatum, with Jackson as a close second. I think I like the versatility of Tatum as a small ball 4, with much better FT% really tilting the scales.

    I really want the Cs to take someone here, rather than chasing the present. That's what free agency is for.
     
  3. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    24,761
    If this is like last year, we'll end up with whoever comes in last, and he'll have been a good pick.
     
  4. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,263
    I'd look to trade down and take Isaac but I'd be happy with Tatum.
     
  5. wnyghost

    wnyghost lurker

    Messages:
    84
    I'll take the player that would keep the Sixers, Lakers and/or Yankees from getting better.
     
  6. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    29,188
    I would be happy with either Jackson or Tatum but am thinking Danny takes Tatum. Both players' versatility profiles pretty well with today's NBA.
     
  7. ZMart100

    ZMart100 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    724
    Jackson with Ball as the backup plan. I'm not convinced Tatum's game will translate well against NBA defenses. I get Jackson's bad reputation offensively, his shoot is ugly and needs to be rebuilt. However, he is explosive enough to drive well and he is a terrific passer. Ball has Rondo like vision, but he can shoot. His defense is a bit of a concern, however.
     
  8. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,087
    If its Tatum/Jackson at #3 I'd try and swap with Phoenix let them take their choice (probably Jackson) and hope to snag additional consideration (the '18 Miami #1? ) and walk off with Tatum.

    and then figure out the package I need for Anthony Davis.
     
  9. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    14,492
    I'd take Jackson or Tatum, though I'd be quite happy if they trade back and still grab Isaac and another piece. I would not trade the pick for Butler.
     
  10. tbb345

    tbb345 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    764
    My #1 choice would be Jayson Tatum. My worst case scenario is taking Josh Jackson. I think trading down with Sacto and taking Jonathan Isaac is a very interesting idea.

    Dream scenario is trading down with Sacto for 5 and 10, trading Avery Bradley for 12, and then packaging 10 and 12 to Orlando for 6. Take Tatum at 5 and Isaac at 6
     
  11. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,263
    My dream scenario would be landing one of Isaac/Tatum at 5 and Collins at 10.
     
  12. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    373
    Jackson, with Tatum and then Isaac as fall backs.

    If we could get 5 and 10, and get one of those 3 along with Collins or Allen, I'd be very impressed.
     
  13. jmm57

    jmm57 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,052
    Assumption that Tatum is guy there are targeting -If you could get 5 and 10 from Sac, grab Tatum at 5 with a fallback of Isaac

    Would anyone reach for Giles at 10 assuming medical aren't a total dumpster fire? Just a total upside play on a guy that fits a need?
     
  14. amfox1

    amfox1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,579
    My dream scenario is trading with Sacto, drafting Tatum at 5 and using 10 to trade for Paul George.
     
  15. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,263
    Right. I mentioned in another thread that trading 5 for Butler and drafting Collins would be a haul too. Similar.
     
  16. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,495
    1st choice: Trade with Sacto
    2nd choice: Trade with Phoenix
     
  17. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,796
    Draft Tatum, sign Hayward, and then would this be enough for Davis?

    - Brooklyn's 2018 first rounder
    - Boston's 2018 first rounder
    - Boston's 2019 first rounder
    - Jae Crowder
    - Zizic or Yabusele (their choice, though they might feel Zizic is redundant with Cousins)

    It would leave Boston with a possible lineup of:

    IT
    Bradley
    Hayward
    Horford
    Davis
    Rozier
    Smart
    Brown
    Yabusele/Zizic
    Olynyk

    That would be a tremendous roster. It would also leave the Celtics with the following picks (not worrying about second round picks for now):

    - Possibly Lakers' 2018 first rounder (#2-5 in a quality draft)
    - Possibly Memphis' 2019 first rounder
    - Possibly Clippers' 2019 first rounder
    - Boston's 2020 first rounder
    - Boston's 2021 first rounder

    It would give New Orleans a solid wing player on a good contract, an almost certain top 3 pick in the 2018 draft (Brooklyn's), which they could use on Porter or Ayton, two other first round picks over the next two drafts (in addition to their own), plus a quality young prospect in Zizic or Yabusele.

    Is that close to what it would take to get Davis? Or is that still way short?
     
  18. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    16,402
    Seems way short. Would probably have to add both LAL and MEM picks
     
  19. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,263
    I don't think Boston can trade their 18 and 19 picks because of the Stepian rule? Maybe since they have other teams picks they can? 18 and 20 would work. I don't think that is nearly enough though.
     
  20. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,801
    Who is going 4 in the Tatum at 5 scenarios? Fox?
     
  21. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,796
    Swap out Boston's 2018 and 2019 picks for 2018 LAL and 2019 MEM then. That gives NO quite possibly 2 of the top 3 picks in next year's draft (Porter AND Ayton?), another good pick in Memphis' 2019 pick, and if they like Zizic/Yabu, that's a LOT of quality young players to add.

    But Davis is an otherworldly and young (just 24 year old) talent so maybe there's virtually nothing they could do to get him.
     
  22. tbb345

    tbb345 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    764
    It's not an outlandish idea (Chad Ford currently has Fox going 4) but it's tough for me to imagine PHX taking Fox instead of Tatum.
     
  23. amfox1

    amfox1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,579
    Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
    The Cavaliers, per league sources, have been working today on assembling multi-team trade scenarios to try to acquire Chicago's Jimmy Butler

    Here's my thought:

    BOS trades #3+#37 to SAC for #5+#10

    BOS then trades with CHI/CLE as follows (works in the trade machine):

    Butler (27YO, 2yrs+PO, 18.7M) to CLE
    Love (28YO, 3yrs, 22.6M) to BOS
    2021 CLE 1st round pick, #10 pick in current draft, Crowder (3yrs) (+Zeller (non-guar)/Mickey (non-guar)/DJax (part-guar)) (17.7M tot.) to CHI
     
  24. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,087
    Brooklyn's 2018 first rounder
    - Boston's 2018 first rounder
    - Boston's 2019 first rounder
    - Jae Crowder
    - Zizic or Yabusele (their choice, though they might feel Zizic is redundant with Cousins)

    That's probaby not enough for Davis.

    Celts might have to give the LA/Sac 18'19 pick (instead of the '18 Celtics #1)

    and maybe include Bradley

    That would give NO 3 1s( two high lottery picks, a 3rd 1st rounder) and 3 pretty decent players for AD.

    and the Celts could keep a few of the #1s (Memphis, Clippers, Miami's(if we swap for it) )

    And we could end up rooting for the Cajun Celts!
     
  25. Minneapolis Millers

    Minneapolis Millers Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,541
    I like Tatum, but I really like the idea of playing Sac and PHX against one another to get PHX to bite and give up significant value to move up one spot, and then we'd take Tatum.

    As for the Davis trade proposed above, no, it's not nearly enough. The Boston picks won't have much trade value if we have Davis et al. So keep those, but include the LAL/SAC pick, and probably the Memphis pick as well, and maybe even a 2d rounder this year. All of which I'd do, which means N.O. won't.
     
  26. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    806
    Is there anyone anywhere that would prefer Love to Butler?

    Just eliminate CLE from this whole scenario and tradedirectly with CHI if everything of value going to them is from BOS anyway
     
  27. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    373
    Are you proposing this because you'd rather have Love than Butler? Maybe Love's a better roster fit, but I think Butler is a much better player.

    Edit: Or what Moops said.
     
  28. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,796
    I agree. I'd happily do all that to make the deal for AD, and have a roster like I list a few posts ago. It really would be a phenomenal haul for any one player, but then again.... Davis is a singular talent.

    There HAS to be a package NO would be willing to accept for Davis, right? A Herschel Walker type deal? Which this Celtics' package (that we're making up out of thin air, of course) kind of would be.
     
  29. tbb345

    tbb345 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    764
    That doesn't seem like Chicago gets enough there. I'd also agree that Boston would prefer just taking Butler themselves instead of Love
     
  30. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    460
    No. I don't think there is any deal that New Orleans would consider for Davis. He's untouchable. It's like asking what Cleveland would want for Lebron or GS for Curry. There is no scenario where teams trade those guys no matter what you offer. It's wasted energy even discussing it. Maybe in 2 or 3 years it becomes possible, but not now.
     
  31. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,796
    New Orleans wouldn't take Durant and Curry for AD?

    Of course there's a package that would be worth it to NO. It may be something nobody would be willing to pay, and maybe the Celtics simply do not have the ammo to do it, but there has to be a package NO would take.

    I agree about the wasted energy part. But then again, this is a fan discussion forum. 99% of what we talk about here is "wasted energy" and has actually no impact on the events we're discussing.
     
  32. Jeff Van GULLY

    Jeff Van GULLY Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    I'm sure Josh Jackson is going to be a good player but he's off my board due to his off court issues. I don't want to have to root for him as a Celtic.

    Tatum and if he's out, take Isaac.

    I still think getting a young PG/SG is the right move with the guard mix we have since I was pinning other summer moves on a Bradley trade (cap relief and big man acquisition). Danny seems to think the opposite and Crowder is going to be the piece shipped out with picks. That would point to Fox but I just don't think he's going that direction.
     
  33. CreedBratton

    CreedBratton Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,597
    NO will absolutely trade AD in a few years but no need to do it this far out when he has 3 years left. I'd offer everything the celtics had just to see of course.
     
  34. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    24,682
    No matter how good they seem, there is too much uncertainty in the Celtics' picks to get AD now. If Nets 2018 is top 3 like we hope, then perhaps they would listen if Pelicans have another bad year and AD shows visible frustration. He's signed for 3 more years so I think earliest possible moment would be summer 2019. At that point, the Celtics will hopefully have Ayton/Porter/Doncic/Bamba and getting ready to pick top 6 or 7 in the 2019 draft.
     
  35. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    460
    I know we are just talking hypotheticals here, but no they probably wouldn't. Durant and Curry are free agents, which means you wouldn't be able to do that deal until January 15. They'd also be making nearly $67+/- million in combined salary, which means in addition to Davis you'd have to include Boogie and all your other rotation players just to make the math work. Then once you've done all that you'd still lose KD in free agency next summer since he'll be on a 1+1 deal. So in the end you get four plus years of Curry, but he's older and more expensive and costs you every rotational piece you have.

    Considering AD's talent, contract and age, he's untradeable. That's it. There is nothing you can propose that changes that. I know that the point of message boards is having discussion that is ultimately meaningless, but constantly talking about trading for Davis is just misguided and tiresome. There is no chance it happens.
     
    #35 cheech13, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  36. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    There is no "enough for Davis" stop with that nonsense. ANTHONY DAVIS IS NOT GETTING TRADED THIS OFFSEASON!

    I like either drafting Tatum at 3 or trading the pick in a deal for Butler.


    Trading down to 5 and 10 is not something that interests me at all, for the following reasons:
    1. They seem to have a 4 player first tier, trading to 5 in the hope the last guy left in that tier falls is dangerous (and one of the reasons you trade 1 was that you thought you could get the same guy at 3)
    2. I don't really love anyone at 10 enough to downgrade the better pick.
    3. It makes clearing cap room for Hayward harder (basically means you have to trade Smart for almost no return salary)
    4. If you aren't picking 2 players, the 3 is a much more attractive trade asset than the 10 and considerably more attractive than the 5.
     
  37. Scoops Bolling

    Scoops Bolling Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,423
    I'd be fine with either Tatum or Isaac, although if it's Isaac I'd be much happier picking him at 5 then at 3. Jackson would be okay, but would probably leaving me feeling the same way I did last year when we took Brown over Murray...and that turned out alright. That said, I think either Tatum or Isaac would fit in really nicely with the other young guys already on the roster.
     
  38. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    806
    The word is that their 4 player list does not include Fox. Sacramento wants Fox and for some reason wants to trade up to get him even though he will still be there at 5. And if all that is true then trading down to 5eans they still get one if their guys
     
  39. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,263
    I dunno, I've seen Fox projected to the Suns in more than one place so if the Kings really want him, they'd have to trade up.
     
  40. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    806
    Would be kinda wild if SAC trades up to 3 resulting in three point guards going in the top 3
     
  41. Grin&MartyBarret

    Grin&MartyBarret Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,050
    There isn't right now. The Davis talk's a waste right now. The Pels just stole Cousins, and saw the Davis/Cousins combo play together for half a season. There's no way they arbitrarily bail on that to, what, rebuild around the older, less talented of their two bigs?

    Add to that that no team can even come close to paying Davis what New Orleans can, and there's no incentive for this trade for player or team. Davis and cCousins are good friends, he's not forcing his way out after half a season AND leaving 60 million on the table.

    It's just not worth discussing for at least another season, and only then if the season goes poorly -- very poorly -- for the Pelicans.
     
  42. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    489
    I would take Ntilikina with #10 if he's there. Love the kid. He might also be amenable to a stash, since he's so young.
    Will Vlade cooperate? Tatum would be a nice Rudy Gay replacement for the Kings, in which case the Celtics take Isaac, who is not as good at Tatum now, but who has definite upside.

    As for Anthony Davis, I think it's right to start making overtures, even knowing they will be rebuffed this year. You never know how Cousins may affect (infect?) a team.
     
  43. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,555
    The Isaac idea is compelling but I'm not sure it quite jibes with so quickly pooh-poohing Bender last season. Maybe they'd value Isaac's NCAA minutes highly enough (IIRC Bender played pretty sparingly in his draft year) to overcome any rawness/build concerns. He was their first workout, I believe.
     
  44. amfox1

    amfox1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,579
    Love is a better roster fit, and the price saves a lot of assets for the future.

    Horford, Love, Hayward, Bradley, IT
    Zizic, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rozier

    +Yabusele
    +BOS/BRK/LAL* 2018 1st round picks
    +BOS/MEM*/LAC* 2019 1st round picks
    *subject to protections
     
    #44 amfox1, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  45. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,795
    I think the Love to the Celtics while getting Butler to the Cavs is counterproductive. Does that not make the Cavs better? And when the Cavs are in "decline", Love will be a complementary piece, at best, right?
     
  46. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,200
    I might be just me, but it feels like Love gets banged up on every other play. Even when healthy, it seems like he's often hobbling down the court, or walking something off. He's 28 years old but older than that physically.

    In the Championship game thread, I said it would be crazy for Lebron to blame the loss on Love because he mostly played brilliantly during the playoffs. However, I don't consider him a critical piece to hang onto or to trade for.

    No thanks.
     
    #46 djbayko, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  47. smastroyin

    smastroyin simpering whimperer Dope SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,843
    I can see the idea of getting Love if Cleveland is making up the difference to pry Butler, and the Celtics don't want to pay that difference themselves.

    The problem is that the Cavs have almost nothing of value to make up that difference. The 2021 pick isn't worth much. If that's the difference maker then just throw in Boston's 2021 and get Butler yourself.
     
  48. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    24,682
    I love Isaac's defensive abilities and potential but his offense is pretty raw and that body type scares me. Like Smart, his defense will always provide value but I'm not sure the offense will ever catch up. I think I would need another substantial asset to go from #1 pick to Isaac. If I had to rank them:

    1) Tatum
    2) Jackson
    3) Isaac

    Tatum gets the edge due to his offensive polish and FT shooting but would be fine with Jackson as well.
     
  49. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    373
    Better roster fit offensively, but it seems like a Horford/Love frontcourt would really struggle defensively.
    We really need an athletic 4 who can rebound, defend the perimeter and make shots. Maybe Isaac does make good sense.
     
  50. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,862
    I'm not really sold on Issac. His length/shooting makes him an attractive prospect in today's game, but he plays smaller than his measurables and when you are avoiding contact in college it isn't like he is suddenly going to become more of an aggressor when he plays against NBA talent. If he struggles to
    shoot well against NBA defenses I don't know how much of a contributor he can be.
     

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