What Does Chicago Do with Patrick Kane?

[TSC]

For those not following along -
 
Patrick Kane is currently being investigated for the rape of a woman in Evans, NY on Saturday. The woman went to the hospital and had a rape examination/kit done that evening.
 
The police have apparently searched Kane's house.
 
 
Kane is a near generational talent, on a top-price contract.
 
What are Chicago's (as a team) options? What (as a fan) would you want Chicago to do if they were your team?
 
---
 
My take - Kane is obviously entitled to due process, but he should be suspended during the investigation. If convicted, I don't see how you allow him back on the team. How Chicago handles his contract will be interesting though. Does the NHL have a player conduct clause in their contracts?

 

[axx]

Depends on how interested the media is in the case (seriously). They don't seem interested, so nothing will probably be done for now. 

 

[Salem's Lot]

If I were running the Blackhawks, I wouldn't do anything disciplinary until there was an arrest. I would release a statement that there is an ongoing investigation into one of our players, and out of respect to the investigation we will not be commenting at this time. If he's arrested I would suspend him indefinitely. The Kings already set that precedent last season with the Voynov suspension. If he's convicted then he's obviously screwed. As a convicted felon, he would not be allowed into Canada even if he served no jail time (unlikely given the charge). I assume a jail sentence would allow the Blackhawks to void his contract under the CBA. If the charges were dropped or he were to beat it in court, then I'd lift the suspension and let the league handle any further discipline.  

 

[The Napkin]

The suspension thing is an interesting question. Like you said he's certainly entitled to due process and the presumption of innocence. So how does a suspension fit in there? If you suspend him you're saying he's guilty of something he hasn't even been charged with yet. I feel squishy even saying it because I don't want it to be a "NOT ALL MEN!" thing (and it won't because I won't let it). I just don't know. I'm glad it's not my decision. The optics certainly look bad but if it turns out he didn't do it and he's had to miss camp/games/whatever? That'd be tough.
 
Certainly if the investigation proceeds and he's guilty then yeah, bye. Enjoy playing for the California Penal League. Or maybe the KHL. But until it reaches a point where a charge comes I'm not sure you can suspend him.

 

[cshea]

I think it will be out of Chicago's hands. The league will likely suspend him indefinitely if charges get filed, like they did with Voynov.

Salary cap wise, I think it'll play out similar to Voynov. The team league and union will work out some settlement with the cap hit while the process plays out. If this results in a conviction, then they would terminate the contract.

 

[The Napkin]

axx brings up a good point too. Sadly.

 

[cshea]

The suspension thing is an interesting question. Like you said he's certainly entitled to due process and the presumption of innocence. So how does a suspension fit in there? If you suspend him you're saying he's guilty of something he hasn't even been charged with yet. I feel squishy even saying it because I don't want it to be a "NOT ALL MEN!" thing (and it won't because I won't let it). I just don't know. I'm glad it's not my decision. The optics certainly look bad but if it turns out he didn't do it and he's had to miss camp/games/whatever? That'd be tough.
 
Certainly if the investigation proceeds and he's guilty then yeah, bye. Enjoy playing for the California Penal League. Or maybe the KHL. But until it reaches a point where a charge comes I'm not sure you can suspend him.

According to Voynov's wiki page, the league does have the power to suspend for being involved in a criminal investigation. Theoretically if the investigation is on going in October and no charges filed, they could still suspend.

 

[finnVT]

I'm not sure what Chicago releasing him accomplishes... why should it be ok for him to play for someone else, just not for Chicago?  If he goes to LA or NYR and helps them win a championship instead of CHI, what has that accomplished?

 

[Salem's Lot]

I'm not sure what Chicago releasing him accomplishes... why should it be ok for him to play for someone else, just not for Chicago?  If he goes to LA or NYR and helps them win a championship instead of CHI, what has that accomplished?

 
Releasing him doesn't accomplish anything. He can be suspended without pay if he's arrested. If he's convicted they can void the contract. I'm not sure what that the cap issues are, but they won't have to pay him the actual dollars. The Patriots released Hernandez right away because they knew he wasn't getting out of jail and they wanted to recoup the signing bonus money that they already paid him, and so that they wouldn't have to pay him the next installment of it in a couple months. The nature of the NFL's CBA with upfront money makes it a different situation for the team.
 
 
EDIT: I was wrong about the Voynov suspension. He was suspended WITH pay. If he's eventually convicted and serves jail time, I'm not sure if there's any way for the Kings to recoup that money under the CBA.

 

[Red Right Ankle]

The only thing releasing him before he is convicted gets you is credit for cutting bait early if he is convicted.  If he is cleared of wrongdoing (or never charged), you lost a high end talent.  That dog won't hunt, Monsignor.
 
Salem's playbook is reasonable to me.  I would do nothing but "no comment" (regardless of what month it is, i.e., I would allow him to play real games if the investigation dragged) until he's arrested and then suspend him when that happens.  He may get exonerated, but I'm comfortable with the arrest being the line since prosecutors are unlikely to charge if there isn't a reasonable chance of conviction.
 
The really difficult question is if he gets off but it's a Greg Hardy-esque situation where he almost assuredly did it but is freed on a technicality, what do you do then?

 

[FL4WL3SS]

For those not following along -
 
Patrick Kane is currently being investigated for the rape of a woman in Evans, NY on Saturday. The woman went to the hospital and had a rape examination/kit done that evening.
 
The police have apparently searched Kane's house.
 
 
Kane is a near generational talent, on a top-price contract.
 
What are Chicago's (as a team) options? What (as a fan) would you want Chicago to do if they were your team?
 
---
 
My take - Kane is obviously entitled to due process, but he should be suspended during the investigation. If convicted, I don't see how you allow him back on the team. How Chicago handles his contract will be interesting though. Does the NHL have a player conduct clause in their contracts?

Let's not turn the NHL into the NFL here. If you suspend him and it was an erroneous claim, then what? You just suspended him for nothing. 
 
These leagues should stay out of disciplinary decisions until the court has spoken.

 

[twothousandone]

The really difficult question is if he gets off but it's a Greg Hardy-esque situation where he almost assuredly did it but is freed on a technicality, what do you do then?

I live in Chicago and both of my kids have their share of #88 gear. It's pretty much been put away due to the heat, and as of last night, I don't believe either of them (13 and 10) had heard the news. The 13-year old has hockey camp today, and I bet he'll hear from someone. So, there will be a conversation tonight. Sigh. It's easier when it's Roethlisberger.

The gear probably doesn't come out again unless there are no charges filed, and the investigation is closed. The cab driver thing was opaque enough that it could be written off to youth. At the rally, after the parade, Pat Foley noted how Kane has matured. Kane went to the microphone and said something like "those of you who think I've grown up, just watch me these next few weeks." (A women I work with responded with "Oh, no. Dead hookers!) Made it tougher to keep him on a pedestal, but saying dumb things isn't unique to Kane.

I'll say this -- no matter what happens, the once too common defense "he could get thousands of women, so I don't think he raped her," is now, "he could get thousands of women, why couldn't he have made sure he was with someone willing." Which I think I have heard three times since the report broke.

I'd rather root for a team struggling to make the playoffs with a bunch of rookies than have to root for a team with a rapist playing for the Stanley Cup. He's innocent until proven guilty, but I think an arrest leads to a suspension until the case is settled.

This puts air pressure, steroids, stealing signs, paying college athletes in perspective. This is abhorrent behavior, if it turns out to be true. If he's freed on a technicality, I guess he stays with the team, but the gear never gets worn again.

These leagues should stay out of disciplinary decisions until the court has spoken.

I'd say no firm penalty until the case is resolved. Suspended with pay if a players is arrested for a felony.

 

[TSC]

Let's not turn the NHL into the NFL here. If you suspend him and it was an erroneous claim, then what? You just suspended him for nothing. 
 
These leagues should stay out of disciplinary decisions until the court has spoken.

I think if the police have enough evidence to search his home, you have enough to suspend him with pay while the process works itself out.

It allows the player to focus on what he needs to do to clear his name (or prepare a defense), it removes the distraction from the team, and if guilty - the team looks good for being proactive. Even if innocent it shows the team is not showing preferable treatment to a star player.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I don't agree.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

If Chicago wants to suspend him for 'repeat offender' status, then I'm probably more ok with that than suspending him for an accusation. He's had a few incidents and if Chicago frames in that manner, then I'd probably be ok with him getting suspended with pay to get his shit together.
 
Even if he is charged, that doesn't mean he's guilty. I have a big problem with not letting the court proceedings play out before making a decision. The only time I've agreed with a decision like that is when the Patriots released AH before he was convicted. But that had more to do with the fact that there was enough evidence that he was doing enough other things to warrant a release before a conviction (the guns first and foremost). 

 

[RedOctober3829]

If Chicago wants to release Kane, I know a team that wears black and gold that might be able to use his skillset.

 

[Leather]

If Chicago wants to release Kane, I know a team that wears black and gold that might be able to use his skillset.

 
...for 6 months before they trade him for a 30 year old veteran.

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

I don't think they do anything unless/until he's charged. 
 
1. They've too much invested in him.
 
2. The nature of rape investigations suggests it won't be conducted in the press. Unless there's a stream of leaks to the media from law enforcement, it won't be a PR disaster of a death by a thousand cuts. 
 
If he's arrested/indicted, then everything changes quickly. 

 

[Marciano490]

If Chicago wants to release Kane, I know a team that wears black and gold that might be able to use his skillset.

 
If you live in Boston or have family or friends here, you don't want Kane around - truth to this accusation or not. 

 

[Toe Nash]

If Chicago wants to release Kane, I know a team that wears black and gold that might be able to use his skillset.

Yeah, that'll go well with their media and all that cap space they have.

 

[Salem's Lot]

 
If you live in Boston or have family or friends here, you don't want Kane around - truth to this accusation or not. 

 
deleted

 

[TFP]

 
Wow that's a rather strong statement unless you've actually been around the guy, don't you think? How's he any different from the thousands of mid 20's douche bags in bars around Boston on a nightly basis? Other then being really good at hockey, that is.

Based on comments made in the past, I think Marciano has been around the guy or knows people who have. Not the first time he's mentioned that.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

Depends on how interested the media is in the case (seriously). They don't seem interested, so nothing will probably be done for now. 

You're not in Canada. Believe me, the media is VERY interested up here...

 

[Marciano490]

Based on comments made in the past, I think Marciano has been around the guy or knows people who have. Not the first time he's mentioned that.

 
Yeah, this isn't some personal dislike or third hand information.  The thing I said earlier was about Toews, who tried to screw my then 18-year-old girlfriend in a bar bathroom while his fiancee was out of town.  She and her friends say Kane is even more disgusting.  Doesn't mean he's a rapist, of course, but there are plenty of decent guys who are also professional athletes.

 

[TFP]

Crap, sorry about confusing the two, you're right. Either way, I figured that you had first hand knowledge with it.

 

[RG33]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Blackhawks suspended him regardless of charges actually being filed. It's a pretty dark cloud to hover over a team, an obviously extra-sensitive topic in sports today (as it should be), and the police had enough with the victim going to the hospital and having a rape kit processed to get a search warrant. This is already beyond some of the "accusations" that other athletes have had recently where nothing ever came of things aside from civil stuff.

It will be interesting to see how the US media handles the story going forward, with this being a hockey player and a . .. . . . . ahem. . . . . white guy (can of worms not trying to be opened, seriously interested in reaction).

 

[CoolPapaBellhorn]

I'm a Blackhawks fan who considered Kane my favorite player. I'm willing to let the legal process play out to an extent, but unless the investigation wraps up in short order with no charges (which looks unlikely based on what we know), I'd have a hard time wanting him on the team. I definitely won't be able to cheer for him again. What that means, practically, with the salary cap and the 2016 roster, I almost don't care. I just wouldn't want him associated with the team I root for.
 
I realize that it's not that simple for the team, so he'll probably get a Voynov suspension from the league while the process plays out. I just know what I want as a fan.
 

The thing I said earlier was about Toews, who tried to screw my then 18-year-old girlfriend in a bar bathroom while his fiancee was out of town.  She and her friends say Kane is even more disgusting.

 
Cripes, I need to stop reading this thread.

 

[twothousandone]

I just wouldn't want him associated with the team I root for.

Maybe tonight, but certainly soon, I have to explain to my sons that I'd rather see Ryan Kesler lift the cup with the Ducks nwxt year, than Kane with the Blackhawks.

With all the innocent until proven caveats.

It sucks, but that's why my sweater doesn't have a name or number.

 

[Dropkick Izzy]

Maybe tonight, but certainly soon, I have to explain to my sons that I'd rather see Ryan Kesler lift the cup with the Ducks nwxt year, than Kane with the Blackhawks.
.

Oh good fucking christ...

You were one of those "let's go NYY!!" assholes in 2001, weren't you?

 

[Bozo Texino]

The Buffalo News has some more details on the situation with Kane.
 
Kudos to the victim blaming bar owner!  What a piece of shit.

 

[tmracht]

Wow that is some grade A victim blaming.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

He's fucked.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Also, not sure how the bartender is blaming the victim. He's only reporting what he saw and openly admits that it might not be the same woman. He never said she was asking for it, he just stated the facts. He noted earlier in the night that a young woman was hanging all over Kane and being very flirtatious. 
 
I think you're both making a leap to a bad intention when it's not really there.

 

[Marciano490]

Not at all and Deadspin had the same take as Kerpen and tm.  Plus, why the paper would interview the bar owner without noting his vested interest in slanting the story to avoid legal if not moral liability is beyond me. 

 

[kenneycb]

Not at all and Deadspin had the same take as Kerpen and tm.  Plus, why the paper would interview the bar owner without noting his vested interest in slanting the story to avoid legal if not moral liability is beyond me. 

Because the DA explicitly asked the bar owner to make a statement and the newspaper is a good avenue to pursue such statement.

 

[riveraulwick]

Totally agree FL4W with your take on the bartender.  Was going to post it myself until I saw yours.

 

[Marciano490]

Because the DA explicitly asked the bar owner to make a statement and the newspaper is a good avenue to pursue such statement.

 
He also said he has "no skin in the game" which is absolutely not true and his contribution to the discussion is either irrelevant because it discusses the wrong woman or paints an inappropriate picture of the victim. 

 

[kenneycb]

Okay, but that reads more of an issue of journalistic integrity and the like and not an issue of victim-blaming.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

 

 
He also said he has "no skin in the game" which is absolutely not true and his contribution to the discussion is either irrelevant because it discusses the wrong woman or paints an inappropriate picture of the victim. 

Wait, the victim for whom he freely admitted that he wasn't sure if it was her or not?
 
It wasn't the brightest interview I've ever seen, but I think it takes a bit of a pessimistic leap to get to the conclusion that he was 'blaming the victim'.

 

[Marciano490]

Okay, but that reads more of an issue of journalistic integrity and the like and not an issue of victim-blaming.

 
It's a really thin line and I'm not sure how to draw it.  Look, if the alleged victim really was drunk and all over Kane all night, that's certainly relevant, at least in the criminal investigation and case.  But, given the history of how these things go, it's dangerous to have those sorts of quotes out there, especially when the bar owner has no idea if he's even discussing the correct woman.  I'd imagine one of the biggest reasons rape victims don't want to come forward is fear that their behavior is going to be scrutinized and criticized.  This doesn't help.
 
 

 
 

Wait, the victim for whom he freely admitted that he wasn't sure if it was her or not?
 
It wasn't the brightest interview I've ever seen, but I think it takes a bit of a pessimistic leap to get to the conclusion that he was 'blaming the victim'.

 

 
He might not be directly blaming the victim, but he's kind of recklessly putting information out there that shows the victim in a bad light and would lead many readers to conclude that either she was asking for it or Kane was mislead by her signals.  I'm not sure what other purpose that information has in the public sphere right now.

 

[kenneycb]

So ultimately your issue lies with the DA making him put out public statements without vetting them first.

 

[Bozo Texino]

Also, not sure how the bartender is blaming the victim. He's only reporting what he saw and openly admits that it might not be the same woman. He never said she was asking for it, he just stated the facts. He noted earlier in the night that a young woman was hanging all over Kane and being very flirtatious. 
 
I think you're both making a leap to a bad intention when it's not really there.

 
No, I'm not.  Victim blaming doesn't have to be something as simple as "she was asking for it."  The bartender could've easily stated "I saw Patrick with a girl in here.  Whether or not that was the girl in question, I don't know."  Done.
 
Her "being very forward," or her "hanging all over him" has nothing to do with the story at hand.  Not a thing.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

 
He might not be directly blaming the victim, but he's kind of recklessly putting information out there that shows the victim in a bad light and would lead many readers to conclude that either she was asking for it or Kane was mislead by her signals.  I'm not sure what other purpose that information has in the public sphere right now.

I completely agree that he probably should have kept his mouth shut, but I'm not sure he was smart enough to understand the consequences of having these comments out there. As you said, it serves no purpose, but that's completely different than saying he's blaming the victim here.
 

 
No, I'm not.  Victim blaming doesn't have to be something as simple as "she was asking for it."  The bartender could've easily stated "I saw Patrick with a girl in here.  Whether or not that was the girl in question, I don't know."  Done.
 
Her "being very forward," or her "hanging all over him" has nothing to do with the story at hand.  Not a thing.

We'll just need to agree to disagree here. You say he's blaming the victim and I disagree. His quotes are irresponsible and probably a bit inane, but they fall short of victim blaming for me.

 

[Marciano490]

I completely agree that he probably should have kept his mouth shut, but I'm not sure he was smart enough to understand the consequences of having these comments out there. As you said, it serves no purpose, but that's completely different than saying he's blaming the victim here.
 
We'll just need to agree to disagree here. You say he's blaming the victim and I disagree. His quotes are irresponsible and probably a bit inane, but they fall short of victim blaming for me.

 
I'm not huge into coded language and this and that.  I think he made comments that have an unfortunate tradition of being made in these situations and tend to put the reader in a certain mindset as well as have a deterring effect on rape victims scared to come forward.  I never met the dude, and likely never will, so I have no idea what point he was trying to get across and I certainly understand it's difficult to be articulate with a mic in your face in the middle of a stressful situation, so while I don't think he's purposefully blaming the victim, he's using a lot of loaded terms here.

 

[LogansDad]

Because the DA explicitly asked the bar owner to make a statement and the newspaper is a good avenue to pursue such statement.

I imagine when the DA says he should make a statement, he probably means to the police, not to a Buffalo newspaper.

 

[Bozo Texino]

I completely agree that he probably should have kept his mouth shut, but I'm not sure he was smart enough to understand the consequences of having these comments out there. As you said, it serves no purpose, but that's completely different than saying he's blaming the victim here.
 
We'll just need to agree to disagree here. You say he's blaming the victim and I disagree. His quotes are irresponsible and probably a bit inane, but they fall short of victim blaming for me.

 
Fair enough.  At least we can agree that the publishing of the quote serves no purpose, whatsoever.

 

[RG33]

I'm not huge into coded language and this and that.  I think he made comments that have an unfortunate tradition of being made in these situations and tend to put the reader in a certain mindset as well as have a deterring effect on rape victims scared to come forward.  I never met the dude, and likely never will, so I have no idea what point he was trying to get across and I certainly understand it's difficult to be articulate with a mic in your face in the middle of a stressful situation, so while I don't think he's purposefully blaming the victim, he's using a lot of loaded terms here.

The quotes from the bar owner are stupid and typical. I don't know that I blame him as much as I blame the newspaper for publishing that crap. It really is sad that the "she was all over him" meme can still be seen today as an excuse for rape. She could have been sucking face with the guy and jerking him off in the bar, that doesn't mean she wasn't raped at his house afterwards.

 

[Bozo Texino]

https://twitter.com/easportsnhl/status/631533307013017600

 

[Bozo Texino]

The alleged victim's story is that she went to Kane's house to accompany her friend.
 
So yeah, it would appear the bar owner's quote was completely pointless.

 

[Marciano490]

The alleged victim's story is that she went to Kane's house to accompany her friend.
 
So yeah, it would appear the bar owner's quote was completely pointless.

 

 
"She’s a really nice girl, and it made me sick to see Mr. Croce make her look like she was some kind of gold digger, that she was out looking to pick up Pat Kane,” one of the co-workers said. “She’s really getting bashed, and it upset me. … I don’t think Mr. Croce should be making remarks like that. I don’t think it’s fair. He’s taking Pat Kane’s side in this because Pat Kane was going to have a big Stanley Cup party at his bar.”