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We're Onto the NFL Draft (2019 Prospect Thread)

Discussion in 'Wait, Who???' started by SMU_Sox, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. EL Jeffe

    EL Jeffe Member SoSH Member

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    For me, Campbell is a Top 40 player. I definitely see your concerns, and the worry is real if he's just a gadget player or not. That's the fun of evaluation - was he limited in his routes by scheme or ability? I want to say Campbell had like the 4th best shuttle time of the combine, so I think the change of direction skills are there. So that's where you have to be really comfortable with the pro day/individual workouts. How does he look running your route tree? Can he whiteboard the option route concepts? I've got no clue on either of those, so I'm betting on the athlete right now.
     
  2. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    I’m higher on Terry McLaurin, his teammate who was also a team captain and high character player. You want to double-dip and project Campbell as a different kind of receiver (slot and gadget stuff) that sounds good. We’ve double dipped with Schiano before in the draft and it worked out well.
     
  3. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    Hey @EL Jeffe on Jeremiah's Moving the Sticks Podcast which was released about 2 minutes ago he interviews Paris Campbell. Enjoy :).
     
  4. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    So ... if we need to take a K / P in this draft, how high do you think Belichick would be prepared to draft one? I'm going with one of the comp 3rds for K and the 4th for P, though I think 5th is more of the sweet spot there. Any top K / P stand out this year? @IdiotKicker @Brand Name ?
     
  5. EL Jeffe

    EL Jeffe Member SoSH Member

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    I looked at a few more players this week (based on free agency events)

    Jachai Polite: I was slow to evaluate him because conventional wisdom had him in the 10-20 range, so I didn't see him lasting to 32. Then he had (reportedly) an erratic combine and now it seems he may fall. I looked at three games, and man, it's easy to see why he was originally projected in the mid-first round. Very natural edge rusher whose first 2-3 steps are explosive. He generally tries to win by turning the corner, but he also displays pretty good power, a counter and an inside rush as well. He's very disruptive, generating strip sacks or hitting the QB as he throws. He's not consistent vs. the run, but he still generates a couple of WOW plays in the run game each week. His body type is sort of in the Justin Houston/Terrell Suggs mold. 6'3, 260#. I don't care about the 4.8+ 40 because his play speed is really good. I can't speak to the red flags and I have no idea about his football character. The Patriots almost always take clean players in the 1st, so I don't know if Polite would be an option. Based on ability and on-field production, I'm good with Polite at #32...with the caveat of everything else checking out.

    Deebo Samuel: He's an easy guy to root for; natural football player with toughness, production and play-making skills. He's got a very unconventional body type for a WR (5'11, 214#), with the build of a RB. He plays like a RB with the ball in his hands; tough to bring down, good vision, balance, and feet. His long speed is just okay (4.48 40) and you don't see him run by corners. Football IQ looks good and seems to have a feel for running routes and uncovering. 10" hands serve him well and he catches the ball cleanly and makes contested catches. He's also a good returner who should be able to be a PR & KR at the NFL level. I see him as a 2nd round plug-and-play receiver option for the Patriots. You wish he were taller and faster, and he has an injury history (mainly hamstrings), but he checks a lot of boxes for what the Patriots like.

    Mecole Hardman: He's an interesting evaluation. 5* recruit out of high school as a DB, but Georgia converted him to WR. He is FAST. Legit 4.3 speed and it translates to the field. He's been a gunner on the punt unit, and a + PR & KR as well. As a receiver, he's very raw with mediocre production (about a combined 60 catches between his soph & junior seasons). You see him run by SEC corners and you feel like you're watching Tyreek Hill. He's still learning to run routes though, and his hands are inconsistent. Not many contested catches on his resume,either. At 5'10, 187#, his size isn't great. Still, you have to like a WR who plays gunner on ST as it speaks to toughness. He'll almost definitely be a Day 2 pick based on speed and the success of guys like Hill and Locket, who have similar physical profiles. For the Patriots, he'd step in as the KR and 4th or 5th WR with the hope that in a year or two, you have a high-end speed receiver. I'd like him more in the 3rd round, but speed kills. I can see someone taking him in the 2nd.
     
  6. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    The Patriots typically take high ceiling guys in the second / third round (Bethel Johnson, Dobson, Taylor Price, Brandon Tate) who didn't really produce but are speed guys with at least a little size. The one exception, Deion Branch, is of course the best guy they drafted in that range. Samuel strikes me as more of a high floor guy; I think given their current needs he would make a lot of sense. But (based on watching one game of each, so I need to do more) I think Stanley Morgan Jr. (no relation) gives you a similar package you can get a round or two later.

    Campbell would be more typical of what the Pats have drafted early. I don't know. I think when you look at the best WR around the league, with a couple exceptions (Julio, AJ Green), you don't see the best athletes; you see very good athletes who have mastered the nuances of the position. I'd rather gamble on a guy with a little less athleticism and a little more polish.

    (responding to myself like an idiot) From what I can tell, Mac Loudermilk of UCF is the top-rated lefty punter this year. He's a character ...


    (for those on mobile - embedded video of Loudermilk hitting a 69-yard punt from his own end zone and then doing an over-the-top celebration)
     
  7. EL Jeffe

    EL Jeffe Member SoSH Member

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    Great points, so a couple of things I'd add:

    • You can add Chad Jackson to the list of workout warrior Day 2 Patriot WR picks. Like the rest, he flamed out. (Tate's had a long career, but essentially as a return specialist.) Based on that track record, a higher floor guy like Deebo might be a nice change of pace for a Day 2 receiver. :)
    • Julio, Tyreek Hill, TY Hilton, Cooks - all guys with legit 4.3 track speed (Hill is probably 4.2) who are top receivers. But clearly, I agree that play speed is much more important to a receiver's success than track speed. I like Campbell and Hardman (though I'm not pounding the table for either guy) for the Patriots because they offer return value, and their play speed matches their track speed - at least at the college level. Campbell lacks some polish, but not production. He's coming off a big-time year. Hardman is definitely a project, but he seems to have a bit more toughness/grit to him than the Dobson, Jackson, Price bunch.
    I looked at Deebo and Hardman since they offered return value as well. With Patterson gone, someone is going to have to fill that void. Since they also need receiver help, might as well get a combo pick. As it stands, Burkhead would probably be the KR. I haven't started looking at too many of the other Day 2 receivers yet.
     
  8. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    LOL, I definitely blocked out Jackson.

    I don't think it's just play speed / timed speed; I think there has to be another level of refinement to their game. Lots of fast guys play fast and still stink because they can't run routes, have bad hands, don't know how to beat press, track balls poorly, etc. Obviously Cordarrelle Patterson is fast one the field, too, but his other receiver skills are just not very good.

    This makes a lot of sense. A lot of McLaurin's appeal is that he also played gunner on special teams for Ohio State, which means he'd have a role year one. It also means he's not a diva WR, which, according to one of the Holley books, is something Belichick cares about (and one of Chad Jackson's problems). Weirdly, Campbell wasn't used on KR or PR this year; he actually never returned a punt in college, though he did do some KR earlier in his career. The other thing ST does is give the player a chance to develop, since he's got a path to both the 53-man roster and the 46-man game day roster. Tough to put in gadget plays for a guy if he might not even be active. This was one of Aaron Dobson's problems; he flashed at times, but he was a WR only so he got buried in the inactives at times, even on the rare occasion he was healthy. FWIW I've only seen one Hardman game but he dropped everything in sight.
     
  9. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    In terms of good route runners who can contribute day 1? I think Stanley Morgan Jr. makes the most sense there of the guys who fit their athletic profile. His top speed isn’t blazing fast but he gets up field so quickly and his functional not to mention athletic testing CoD is elite or near it. He is a polished prospect to me. He can do Z and slot duty and he’d be a guy who could play that role well and he’s probably available in the 4th. His hands are average but he’s good with tracking and making sure he is in the right spot. One trait I look for is does the receiver know how to box out a DB and use the space around him well to make a catch and he does well there.
    Morgan has some special teams experience. He might not have the top end speed for a KR but he has done that before.

    Quick edit: I also like McLaurin quite a bit.

    I wish I liked Emmanuel Hall’s tape better but I think he’s more athlete than receiver at this point.
     
  10. Brand Name

    Brand Name thinks there's no 'i' in denial Staff Member Dope Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Co-sign your notion of the 5th, but better value for that pick has of course already been traded for. That said if BB wants a K and/or P in this draft, I'd try to move down using #134. See if you can't do like a pick swap around this range for next year and get maybe an early 6th or 7th this year.

    Honestly, Tracy is a guy I'd be looking at, LSU. Big fan of the simple mechanics, especially his follow through, no flying hips or falling off to his side like a struck bowling pin. Repeatable in ease, which is something I don't like saying much because it's frankly too often not true. Consistency is also there, which while we could say this about, say, Aguayo, a few years back, IK and I both saw issues with his skip step.

    I like the leg strength of John Baron II given last season at 5/5 at 50+, but I do not trust him to be consistent enough to succeed at this level, though probably someone gives him at least a shot in at least August. Right now I feel the same way about the 2020 grouping, if you want to think a little further out; a great top kicker (UGA's Blankenship), but a shallow class.

    To contrast, going few the past few years of my #1 Ks since I started doing this historically a few years ago: Zane was the same as Roberto mechanically. That is to say, both had (relatively) lofty expectations of being surefire K1s, skip step issues, amazing make rate, and then an unsurprising adjustment by the teams leading to losses. Last year Carlson was coming off a drop year from performance, just by the numbers alone from 2016 to 2017 at Auburn. That to me is always a red flag. There isn't much reason, short of playing through injury, why a guy at K/P should be declining in upperclassmen years at the collegiate level. Tracy hasn't got those issues.

    One of my 1A/1B punters is a guy I trust your familiarity with more than mine, actually, Jack Fox, given his school.

    It's going to sound Madden-ish, but some of the questions I'd ask myself of any punter have awareness basis, which surprisingly isn't as basic as you'd think. This internal monologue asks me if a punter is taking into account his field position, how much he's being pressured and choosing a proper punt choice? In other words, are we screwing with rugby punts with a successful house brought, and if so, is that out of necessity from the snap? This comes before I look at anything surrounding the legs and subsequent technique.

    At the same time, some of the reason I adore love ST is that guys often make/upload their own reels to sell themselves, to get the full experience. Fox is no exception. Breaking down his film, great stuff, plus a very strong showing from what I saw at the E-W Shrine Game. Statistically, he follows the trend of having YPP grow each of the past three seasons, so you're getting a good floor with probably solid upside.

    Mechanically, can't give too much away here since I want to do this as an ITP piece soon given the timing pertinence, but I freaking love how straight and compact the arch is on Fox's punting leg when the ball leaves the foot. That matters for a few reasons. First and foremost, it makes landing a bit easier overall, which ties into my next point. The less you have to angle your arch, the less chance a return team can mess with the ball and/or you. Think about how for a moment when a punt is blocked. Usually, those players are coming at an angle towards the outside of the player. Fox is more to his interior at point of release, so that affords him a split second extra to get the punt off.

    My 1B? Jack Bailey, Stanford. Concerns me a bit that he went down in average, but at the same time, he had a quote in the SF Chronicle that I agree with. To paraphrase, context matters of every punt, for the stuff I discussed in the preview. At the same time, I think he's got to be more consistent, and a five-game sample of averaging 42.0 yards per punt or under shouldn't be something we see with an upper echelon guy like this, not in his senior year. However, I think he gives you probably the best upside, because when Bailey booms, he smashes it, including a Hekkerish personal best of 84 yards. Tends to open up a bit when rushed which is something you could pick on him for.

    To try to draw this to the non football world of how and why this matters, think about Mario Bros games and being hit by a Koopa or something. Those all have hitboxes, right? Well, Bailey's hitbox is more prone to that than most, if you get my analogy. It doesn't impact the punt by itself but it runs a risk that otherwise wouldn't normally exist.

    Bit of a sidebar rant, relative to people I like this draft: It's a project I need to get around crunching numbers for but I do not view Utah guys (Gay, Wishnowsky) as highly as most do until I can find a proper adjustment weight to deal with the altitude unless Denver picks them up. Just absurd to see the Utes consistently get guys perceived this high on the inside, where the mechanics don't back such assertations up. It draws parallels the good piece you wrote about for ITP and the nonsense of ball velocity: Stats are great but we have to view them in the proper context of the larger picture here, especially in something as mechanical driven in its complexity as football.
     
  11. EL Jeffe

    EL Jeffe Member SoSH Member

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    I looked at a couple of more prospects the past few days.

    Kahale Warring: I was only able to find one game (Nevada) and it was his best game of the year (6/95/2td), so I can only give a look and feel evaluation. I'll be honest, this guy wasn't even close to being on my radar until the combine, but I did read a comment by one of the evaporators I trust the most that Warring is a Day 2 pick. Time will tell, but there's a lot to like. The good: he's built the way you want a TE to look. Shade over 6'5", about 255# - he didn't bulk up for the combine, his measurables match his tape. Runs really well; no build up speed issues, he accelerates cleanly and quickly. He generally lines up at the Y, but played a few snaps at H-back and a bunch split out. Good catch radius, natural hands catcher. Adjusts well to the ball and made some difficult, contested catches. Effective blocker in line and in space/2nd level. The bad: I didn't see any physicality to his game. Didn't knock anyone on their butt, even smaller players when he had the chance. Conversely, he was put on the ground a few times at or just after the whistle. I didn't see any run after the catch opportunities, so it's hard to evaluate that aspect. Overall: in my mind, a lot comes down to background checks. How competitive is he? How's he wired? Can he be coached up to play more psychically? I'm 100% convinced his physical skills will play well at the next level. So if he checks out, he's definitely a Day 2 pick for me. I love his upside (has only played football for a few years), physical skills and his hands. Can he play TE the way the Patriots want a TE to play? I'm not sure, but I'm sure he's a guy they'll be very interested in.

    N'Keal Harry: He was a pretty clean player to evaluate and there was no shortage of game film out there. The first thing that jumps out is his size. One of those 6'3", 225# types with a Josh Gordon build. Very physical, and generally looks to dominate in the run game. Physical after the catch, and doesn't leave yards on the field. Makes difficult, contested catches with an impressive catch radius. Lines up all over the field and was clearly Arizona State's go-to receiver, and commanded the attention of defenses. The bad stuff also jumps out too, though. Really struggled against press coverage (Oregon game was particularly alarming). Doesn't look clean off the line of scrimmage, with choppy footwork, wasted steps. Marginal long speed and doesn't run by or separate from DBs. A few bad drops, but hands shouldn't be an issue. Overall, he's a guy I'd be intrigued by but he's a 3rd round type of value for me. He's probably going in the 2nd, but I have too many questions about his ability to separate at the next level.

    I definitely want to take a look at AJ Brown soon. The glimpses I saw showed impressive speed but I didn't get a feel for his routes or change of direction. I also hate that he weighed in at 225#+ at the combine (he looked like a 210# player to me). It's almost like Brown and Metcalf had a contest to see who could show up the most swole. In any event, I'm looking forward to seeing his game.
     
  12. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

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  13. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    If the amount of communication and attention between Scarnecchia and Lindstrom today is any indication, the Patriots really have a lot of interest in the BC guard. A lot of conversation, and Scarnecchia personally ran Lindstrom and Aaron Monteiro through a series of drills.
     
  14. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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  15. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    What is meaningless?
     
  16. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Scar spending time with him. Wasn't BB getting in the middle of a drill with a top pass rusher a year or two ago? And said something like "we have no chance of drafting you anyway". Just because they spend a bunch of time doesn't mean anything, IMO.
     
  17. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Most anyone they draft they spend time with either on the field or in a film room going over different schemes. If Scar/Caserio/BB are personally working someone out, you take note. It doesn't mean it's 100% going to draft the player, but there's interest.

    Considering that Thuney is in the last year of his deal, I'd think any of the top interior linemen they would be interested in and Lindstrom is one.
     
  18. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    I guess but don't they touch hundreds of prospects throughout the process?
     
  19. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    They look at a wide pool of prospects, then pair it down. When the brass go to Pro Days, they are looking at certain guys they have specific interest in. The Pro Days they send area scouts to are just due dilligence.
     
  20. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Fair enough. I’ll keep him on my radar.
     
  21. EL Jeffe

    EL Jeffe Member SoSH Member

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    I looked at three more receivers recently:

    AJ Brown: He's generally listed as a slot receiver, but of the three games I watched, the only game where he lined up there was against Bama. The other two (Vandy, TAMU), he played outside. I actually liked him better outside, to be honest. In any event, Brown has good, natural size. He was 225# at the combine, but looked like he played in the 210-215# range. He has good play speed, which matched his combine track speed (high 4.4s). His change of direction, route running was good. I'm not sure how it would look at 225# though. In the slot, he ran deeper than traditional slot routes. He uncovers well and catches the ball cleanly. Outside, his size and speed played well. He didn't face press coverage too often, but had a moderate level of success against it (and better than N'Keal Harry). He's good after the catch, difficult to bring down with his strength. The bad: I didn't see great effort in run blocking, where he generally went through the motions. His offense did a ton of RPOs, so he didn't always know if he was running a route or if the QB handed off - so I can forgive him for those. But for designed runs, he seemed uninterested in blocking. I also didn't love his body language when he wasn't targeted in the passing game, at times becoming visibly upset. Overall, I liked his ability better than Harry - cleaner routes, better separation. Football character is probably my biggest question with him. I've heard him compared to JuJu, but I'm not there. I didn't see the competitiveness that JuJu showed at USC. Brown is probably going to be an early round 2 pick, but I don't love him there.

    Andy Isabella: I kept hearing about him and I kept dismissing him as a Switzer/Berrios type which ended up being kind of laughable. Isabella was really impressive and fun to watch. People like to point out him beating Georgia deep a couple of times, but really, he beat them on all three levels. Same with BC. He's really fast, and plays to his 4.31 track speed. But he's also quicks, showing good explosion out of his cuts. Despite small hands, he caught the ball well in the two games I watched. He lined up all over the field, and I think he'll have that versatility in the NFL - I don't see him as being limited to the slot. His speed will play. My only concern was size - he came in at 5'9", 188# at the combine. I doubt he played at 188#, as he looked somewhat frail. If he can really play at 190# and maintain that good weight, I think he really has a shot. He kind of reminds me of Taylor Gabriel, but he could end up being closer to a Tyler Lockett. He wasn't a primary punt returner at UMass, but if he could do that at the NFL level, it would be big for him. It's hard to say where he'll be drafted. My best guess is round 4, but a team might fall in love with the speed and pull the trigger earlier.

    Hakeem Butler: I'll just say it; Butler has been the best receiver I've watched so far (I haven't looked at Metcalf though). Rare size at 6'5, 225#. He's fast with smooth acceleration and plays to his 4.48 speed. He didn't do agility drills at the combine, and I'd say his change of direction, suddeness and explosion out of cuts are adequate and about what you'd expect from a receiver that big. He's not AJ Green athletically (a guy he's been compared to), but the overall physical skills are impressive. He lined up all over the place at Iowa State, and faced much more press coverage than the other receivers I've watched. He consistently beat the jam, at times destroying it. His overall route running was fine and I think he'll be able to do a full route tree. His effort in the run game was excellent and on par with N'Keal Harry. On the flip side (and there is a flip side), he struggled with his hands in the games I watched. A few drops, he didn't come down with some other catchable balls, and in general, he just didn't look like a natural catcher. There were definitely so highlight reel grabs, but the consistency wasn't there. With better hands (and hands can be improved), he's a 1st round type talent for me. I'm higher on Butler than a lot of the respected Draft Twitter types, so it's entirely possible I'm missing something. If he's there in the 2nd round, I run his draft card to the podium.
     
  22. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    Hakeem Butler is an amazing prospect, sure. Matt Waldman and TDN guys like him a lot. If they want a big alpha X type he'd be my choice for them. His metrics fit their profile and honestly if the guy runs fast enough I don't think they care that much if his CoD is mediocre. Guys that big 99% of the time are not going to be sub 7. I could actually get you the real number using RAS which Kent just fixed but the point remains. I will say the drops for Hakeem are concerning. Also while he is v fast for his size he isn't sub 4.45 fast which a lot of times is what they look for. Don't get me wrong. I like him quite a bit. I think he is a high round 2 prospect.

    I wish I could contribute more here on this stuff but next two weeks our AOP is kicking my ass. Easier to post little bits on twitter.

    Speaking of... if you guys talk about Pats draft stuff I am @JohnLimberkis on twitter. It would be nice to have the SoSH draft community on there to follow.

    As for players I think are perfect fits for the Pats: here are some of my binkies:

    Non 1st round edition

    Wide receiver: Terry McLaurin, Stanley Morgan jr, Penny Hart.

    TE: Dawson Knox, Kahale Warring, Dax Raymond.

    Edge: Winovich and Omenihu. I like Maxx Crosby and Anthony Nelson as edge guys but I don’t think either of their athletic testing profiles translate onto the field in the elite way you would hope for. Too tall maybe? I know that's somewhat lazy but it might help explain why their 3-cones are elite but their bend on tape is mediocre.

    IDL: Saunders, Omenihu (2x), Willis. Does Tillery count?

    Safety: can I have 6? Safety is tough because I could imagine so many of the day 2 early day 3 guys fitting in on the Pats. Rapp, Thornhill, Abrams, Thompson, Adderley if he somehow slips, CGJ, Savage, Hooker, Blair, Gant... all of those guys can contribute (not all in the same way).

    RB: for the big primarily running running back type I love Devine Ozigbo and Benny Snell.
     
  23. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    All this discussion of the various kinds of receivers makes me wonder what are the key factors, maybe differentiating by role.

    Hands: you can't catch, you can't play. Might spell bad news for Butler and his high drop rate. But I would have thought the same for Sony's fumble rate last year, so maybe it depends if they think they can fix it.
    Blocking: you don't block, you don't play. I get wary of guys like Isabella or (especially) Hollywood Brown who are tiny and don't bring Edelman-level insanity.
    Personality: no divas. No one that's going to complain about not getting the ball or make a distraction. @EL Jeffe 's comments on AJ Brown make him sound like not a fit.
    Brains: I think the idea that the Patriots offense is some crazy level of implicated is overblown, but you definitely can't be dumb and play for Belichick / McDaniels / Brady. Not sure if that rules anyone out for sure, but I'd be leery of the Ole Miss receivers who ran a primitive route tree.

    X WR: They've been pretty consistently 4.45 guys and below for their high picks. I don't think that would rule out Hakeem Butler or Deebo Samuel (both 4.48) but N'Keal Harry (4.53) and Riley Ridley (4.58) might be a different story. Beating press is key here, too. They seem to be willing to compromise quicks a bit; Dobson had a below-average 3-cone.
    Z / Slot WR: 3-cone gets most of the attention, but short shuttle seems to be as big a factor or even bigger. It was basically Welker's only good Combine drill, and Branch and Edelman killed it, too. Not sure how that applies to this year's class. Toughness is huge, too - you're going over the middle of the field, you're going to get drilled. 40 time not that important, size not that important, beating press not that important.
     
  24. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    Branch was a 3.78 shuttle. Yeah that was ridiculous. Edelman was a 3.92 and Welker a 4.01. Berrios though was a 4.18 but had an elite 3-cone and sub 4.45 40. Here are the top 10 WR and Easton Stick for this years shuttle:

    4.03 Parris Campbell
    4.03 Cody Thompson
    4.05 Easton Stick
    4.07 Miles Boykin
    4.13 Stanley Morgan Jr (Hi, binkie)
    4.14 Deebo Samuel
    4 guys are at 4.15: Gary Jennings, Andy Isabella, Terry McLaurin (binkie #2), and Darius Slayton.

    Renfrow is a 4.19 with a 6.8 3-cone and a 4.58 40.

    I would bet Penny Hart has a great shuttle but he didn't test. His 40 was somewhere between mid 4.5s and mid 4.6s which is woof but... Welker was mid 4.6's too.
     
  25. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    LOL just checked Terry McLaurin's comps on Mockdraftable and the top two are guys the Pats drafted in round 2 (Bethel Johnson and Chad Jackson): https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/terry-mclaurin

    Cordarrelle Patterson checking in at #6. Parris Campbell also has Johnson and Jackson in his top 10.
     
  26. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    I know some of you really like Campbell. My question though is do we think he can evolve into a well-rounded either slot or maybe z and slot guy.

    So much with Campbell is projection and that’s what scares me a bit. I love athletic players. I am biased towards people who test well athletically but I like to see that athleticism applied in the film and I still favor athletes who have some polish at the position. That’s my issue with Campbell. Reminds me a bit of CP84 but where CP84 has better film on the outside in college (IIRC) Parris is a slot or a z/slot guy and if he gets the ball on a screen or out in space he’s deadly. Can he learn to run option routes?
    Obviously with his athleticism his ceiling is high but. And that’s where I stop. Look, no questions here on if he is a high character guy or can contribute to STs. So he could stick on STs and develop. All the consternation and I still have a third round grade on him. It’s just I think there are better options at receiver and other positions in the second that I would be not want to burn 56 on him.
    Curious to hear what you all think and where you would be ok taking him.
     
  27. wilforks dingleberry

    wilforks dingleberry lurker

    Messages:
    54
    Ohio State fan here, so I've watched Parris quite a bit. I would agree with your assessment of a 3rd round pick, maybe a 4th. He is super athletic but a little overhyped right now. He is a far cry from Michael Thomas, who I was dying for the Pats to take (maybe they would have if they didn't lose their first rounder that year due to deflategate, but probably not given their track record of success drafting WRs). Thomas was so polished in college with his route running, body control, and hands that I was stunned when he was drafted after the likes of Corey Coleman, Will Fuller, Josh Doctson, Laquan Treadwell, and Sterling Shepard. I could not have been more certain that Thomas would be a stud in the NFL and I did not understand why he was relatively under hyped. Granted, he fell into a perfect situation in NO while those drafted in front of him were far less fortunate, but it's hard to imagine Thomas not excelling in almost any organization.

    Back to Campbell, your comparison to CP84 seems pretty spot on to me. He is explosive in space, but seemed to disappear for long stretches and eventually would need to be force fed a jet sweep or bubble screen. I do not remember him catching a bunch of routes that you would see the Patriots run and would be more of a luxury (CP84) than someone I want to build our WR corps around for the next 5 years.

    McClaurin I feel is a much better fit in the 4th or 5th, he is a monster on special teams and more consistent route runner. Both are willing blockers but I would give McClaurin the edge there as well. If I could take any receiver off the Buckeyes and put him on the Pats, I would have chosen KJ Hill, but he returned to school for his senior season. Just my 2 cents, coming from a very untrained eye/ fan perspective!
     
  28. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,118
    Hey @wilforks dingleberry that's one hell of a handle you have.

    There is definitely a strong McLaurin-Pats hive. I had him as a 3rd rounder but I would be fine with him in the 2nd after thinking about it more. Why? Well, I think his route running combined with athleticism gives him a high ceiling. He can also contribute and develop while being a stud on ST.

    I think though of the 10-30 draftable WRs we can narrow the Pats list down to 10 or so based on their athletic and stylistic preferences but like Super Nomario said... never say never. I really liked Riley Ridley and Kelvin Harmon for example but the testing just isn't there for the Pats I think.

    Link to article.

    Terry McLaurin sounds like a Patriot.


    Nasir Adderley testing out the building today and his tape matches that and is in and of itself v good but I am somewhat limited by no all-22. Nasir is another guy I think they would covet. Quick edit: I think we discussed this here but Nasir is all about that special teams too. Great attitude.
     
  29. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,652
    https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jalen-robinette-returns-to-nfl-radar

    Jalen Robinette graduated from the Air Force Academy and participated in the 2017 combine. The thinking then was that he was a Day 3 draft prospect, but then the military academies changed their policy in regards to pro athletes and decided he had to serve his two years.

    It is now two years later and he is eligible for a camp spot (not the draft).
     
    #129 pappymojo, Mar 22, 2019 at 2:33 PM
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019 at 3:23 PM
  30. wilforks dingleberry

    wilforks dingleberry lurker

    Messages:
    54
    2nd/3rd for Terry is a little high for my taste. He was probably the 4th option on the Buckeyes last year, clearly behind KJ Hill and Campbell, clustered with Austin Mack, Binjamin Victor and, by the end of the year, true freshman Chris Olave. If he is there in the 4th/5th round, I'd jump all over it because his floor is relatively high as a special teamer and 3rd/4th WR. I don't see the value there in the 2nd or 3rd. That said, he was apparently told by a team to stay close to his phone on Day 1, so what do I know...
     
  31. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,403
    Cbssports mock draft here:

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...iots-swipe-josh-rosen-bears-land-corner-help/

    They have the Pats landing in the first three rounds:

    1st: Jachi Polite, edge, Florida
    2nd: Andy Isabella, WR, UMass
    2nd: trade for Josh Rosen, QB
    3rd: Jace Sternberger, TE, Texas A&M
    3rd: John Cominsky, edge, Charleston
    3rd: Iman Lewis-Marshall, CB, USC

    How would you guys feel about that draft haul?
     
  32. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,780
    Polite doesn't really seem like a Pats-y fit; he's smallish, reportedly struggles at the point of attack, and there were other Combine questions, too.

    Isabella has talent but I question how size is going to play in an offense that asks receivers to block.

    Love trading 64 for Rosen and the last three picks all seem like Patriots-type players. Would love to get an OT and a DT in the first three rounds, but you can't have everything. Swap out Polite for Tillery and I'm on board.
     
  33. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,118
    I’ll echo the sentiment re: Polite. Take him off the board. Tillery is a great sub. I like Isabella but I am not sure his value that high. Also still thinking about his fit with the Pats.
    The Rosen trade is awesome. That’s my favorite part. Josh Rosen with an O-Line running game around him and eventually more options to throw to? Yeah that’s going to work out well.

    Jace did not test well. That’s a bit surprising given his tape. However Patriots don’t like to draft tight ends who don’t athlete themselves out of the building.

    I’ll fess up the last two guys have not made the radar for most of the people I follow so I have no thoughts on them yet.

    My thought on mocks is if you find one pick you really like or a position that’s what to take out of it. So here my favorite pick is Rosen with 64.
     
  34. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,934
    I love this breakdown as it really disaggregates the key components of being a WR and how the Pats value the different elements.
    That said, it seems that playing special teams, especially in any role other than returner, suggests that such a player would tick off a bunch of your boxes: blocking, toughness, diva (or lack thereof).
     
  35. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,780
    Oh, 100%, especially after reading Michael Lombardi's book where Belichick talks about special teams as important not just in-and-of-itself but as a crucible for building team toughness:
    Moreover, you can argue playing as a gunner on punt coverage demonstrates the ability to beat press coverage. You can see why McLaurin seems like such a perfect fit for a BB receiver.
     

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