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Week 19: vs Philadelphia; dominance renewed, Part VI.

Discussion in '2017 Patriots Game Threads' started by Delonte James Jr., Jan 31, 2018.

  1. Ralphwiggum

    Ralphwiggum Member SoSH Member

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    One fucking stop, defense. One gooddamn stop, you assholes.
     
  2. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    This is where i am at. The offense did more than enough to win this game. If the defense made a few more stops the pats win this game.
     
  3. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Didn't need a few. Needed ONE. A tackle. A tipped pass. A lucky bounce. A bad penalty on Philly. Something. Anything.

    Didn't get anything from the defense tonight. Even the INT was a really pretty lucky play on a pass that was almost caught for a monster gain.

    I know it's been posted a few times, but the Pats had 29 first downs (to 25), and 613 yards of offense, while scoring 33 points (should, at a minimum, have been 37), and lost the game. Philly had ONE tackle for loss all night long, and it was the strip sack. That's it. They made ONE play all game defensively. And it was enough.

    So frustrating. To me this loss hurts much less than the other two during this run, but man, I feel like if the defense is even bad, they win going away. They were the defense of the first few weeks and it was an epic disaster.
     
  4. JokersWildJIMED

    JokersWildJIMED Blinded by Borges SoSH Member

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    I thought officiating had nothing to do with the loss, but wonder how the two catch rules on TDs would have been ruled if had been by NE
     
  5. OnWisc

    OnWisc Pegs his jeans

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    Yeah, but imagine how bad the defense would have been if Butler had played...

    IF the decision not to play Butler was in any way intended to be an FU to him for reasons even tangentially related to comments be made about money, then it likely doubly backfired because not only could it possibly have cost us a Super Bowl (I mean, really, one tackle at the right time on defense could've changed this game), but seeing that defense without Butler is going to make his FA pitch that much stronger.
     
  6. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    Reading people blast BB is crazy. Without him pats have 0 titles. The team has Brady, Gronk and 9 jags in o. And not sure there’s any elite defenders. Gilmore maybe? B.B. makes more of the roster than any other coach in history. They haven’t been a good roster in years. If you want to blame B.B. for that, fine. But not the coaching aspect.
     
  7. 75cent bleacher seat

    75cent bleacher seat Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Came across this...FWIW

    Matt Chatham‏Verified account @chatham58
    The fourth down trick play TS to Nick Foles was an illegal formation, should have been called back...extended WR to the top of the screen is off the ball (needs to be on the line with just the OT on inside him). #SB52[​IMG] #Eagles[​IMG] #Patriots

    [​IMG]
    5:15 PM - 4 Feb 2018 from Minneapolis, MN
    Zack Cox‏Verified account @ZackCoxNESN
    My NESN colleague @chatham58 pointed out that the Eagles only had six players on the line on Foles' TD catch. He's right.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    I already posted that way back. Total miss by the officials. They call that back and Philly will surely kick a FG.
     
  9. Byrdbrain

    Byrdbrain Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    6,057
    It is amazing that got missed, it is clear the refs were "letting them play" but this isn't a judgement call this is an obvious pre-snap infraction that should be called 100% of the time.
     
  10. bigq

    bigq lurker

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    375
    Yep. Unfortunately the defense played its absolute worst in the first and last games of the season. I can understand why they sucked in week one but the Super Bowl performance is baffling. They could not make a play and got continuously pushed around all night. Not a good bookend look for Matty P’s unit.
     
  11. Humphrey

    Humphrey Member SoSH Member

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    Actually, what's I found most frustrating about the last drive was that they on several occasions could have stopped them rather than simply getting torched for big gainers, like they had been all game. ALMOST STOPPING THEM led to the Eagles bleeding the clock. Didn't a lot of you think when there was 9 1/2 left that both teams were going to end up scoring in the 40s?
     
  12. boxosII

    boxosII Member SoSH Member

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  13. boca

    boca lurker

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    D was a disgrace in all aspects but the Eagles 3rd down conversion rate was ridiculous.
     
  14. Remagellan

    Remagellan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    A friend of mine sent me the illegal formation thing, and of course, the Clement TD wasn't a legal catch. But I don't care about any of that, because we've won too many times and gotten our own breaks along the way to cry over this game.

    The way I look at it is that when I was a kid, I would have been happy with one Pats Super Bowl win, and I've seen five. It's all gravy at this point.
     
  15. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    Thanks Bill for admitting you messed up at least, even if not offering details.
     
  16. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    I'll also of course trade the karma from yesterday if it means the Celtics can put up #18 this June and maybe win #20 in 3 years.
     
  17. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    Also a total miss by the Patriots coaching staff. Harbaugh would have red flagged it. /ducks
     
  18. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    You should duck because it’s not something you can challenge and it was within 2 min meaning booth review.

    (You were probably just joking)
     
  19. Mugsy's Jock

    Mugsy's Jock Longtime Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I’m not reacting to your hating the decision to bench Butler — i don’t get that either.

    But to say this heralds the “abrupt” end of an era, as if the Pats are headed for league average or worse, is indeed Kellermaniacal.
     
  20. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    11,092
    Pats never punted, and still lost. Although I wonder if they actually did punt, and Allen and Co. managed to pin the Eagles deep, maybe that would have been a good time for a big play on D.
     
  21. geoduck no quahog

    geoduck no quahog Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Foles rarely had to make a quick decision under stress, where his Foleness may have been exposed. Eagles O-Line should take all the credit for that.

    So, if you're the Patriots, do you keep trying to pressure - or do you change the plan and focus more on coverage?

    ...and how would that impact the Eagles running game?

    {Edit: OTOH, Foles was pressured on 11/34 drop backs in the Vikings game, including 14 blitzes...and he still had the game of his life (up to that point)
     
  22. CFB_Rules

    CFB_Rules lurker

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    Sorry, but that's not an illegal formation. Top receiver is on. He's not covering up an eligible number and it's obvious to the defense that he is a receiver. No foul, and would be ruled an incorrect call by any competent grader if flagged.
     
  23. CFB_Rules

    CFB_Rules lurker

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    Not to mention, whoever screen-capped the play conveniently drew the line in the wrong spot. He doesn't need to be all the way to the line of scrimmage to be "on", just needs to break the plane of the waist of the snapper. He still probably isn't technically, but it's very close and if you applied the technical rules to the Patriots 95% of their formations would be illegal too.
     
  24. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity lurker

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    The rules quite clearly state that 7 men must be on the line of scrimmage, and the top receiver was not on the line of scrimmage - he's as far back as the receiver on the other side, who obviously was not on the line of scrimmage either. And I don't see anything in the rules about teams being allowed to have fewer than 7 men on the line if one of them is an "obvious" receiver. Maybe your point is that refs generally give teams leeway from the letter of the rule in these situations, but it is a missed call based on the rule itself.

    I should add that I don't really blame the refs for missing this one and don't think the refs cost the Patriots the game.

    Edit: posted before CFB's follow-up, I think that basically answers my question.
     
  25. CFB_Rules

    CFB_Rules lurker

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    Without getting a little too "Inside baseball" here, generally formation fouls work like this. The fundamental problem with going strictly by the book is that it's hard for receivers who are lined up wide to see where the line of scrimmage is when lining up. They don't have the same perspective to just stick their head down the line without potentially breaking the plane of the ball and instantly generating an encroachment foul. So, they tell the ref who IS on the line where they are trying to line up, with the understanding that he will put them where they are "supposed" to be. There's no real competitive advantage to a receiver lining up a foot or two either way, and if the receiver is "on" but actually a yard or two off the ball the official will give the defense leeway to be in the neutral zone as well. This happens every single play, and you can see receivers check with the ref before every snap.

    Formation fouls ARE called when they can create a competitive disadvantage. Think about tight ends covered up, or the ineligible-eligible trick the patriots used against the Ravens. In those situations the formations need to speak for themselves, since it's not readily obvious to the defense who is eligible to go downfield. But in this play, it's obvious the tackle isn't going to catch a pass since he's wearing an ineligible number, so the receiver must be on. If the eagles ran this exact same formation but declared the tackle eligible, THEN it would be an illegal formation. But nobody here is confused as to who the eligible receivers are, and nobody wants illegal formation fouls on plays where there could not possibly be a competitive impact.
     
  26. Rook05

    Rook05 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Fuuuuuuuuuuucccckkkk.
     
  27. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    I’ll always believe that Hightower would have made a big difference in this game.
     
  28. lars10

    lars10 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Or Edelman. As good as Philly's D was supposed to be Edelman would've carved them up even more than they already did and would've made some of those 3rd downs in the red zone for sure.
     
  29. Mugsy's Jock

    Mugsy's Jock Longtime Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Or Cooks. Boneheaded running after catch aside, he was getting wide open time after time.
     
  30. Soxy Brown

    Soxy Brown Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    How much of a difference would Cooks or Edelman have made?? They had 600+ yards of offense and three different guys had 100+ yards receiving. Cooks and Edelman are both great players but they didn't really miss either of them.

    Meanwhile, NFL Network is replaying the game now. Eagles just converted their first two 3rd downs. A sign of things to come. Sigh...
     
  31. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    54,589
  32. Soxy Brown

    Soxy Brown Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I saw that tweet too but it's misguided. Watch the video. I'm pretty sure Cooks still would have been stopped if he cut it wide. McLeod is closer to the sideline than Cooks and is completely unblocked. I don't think the angle Cooks took had anything to do with whether or not he would have made the first down. Cooks had to either make the defender miss or break the tackle and he didn't do either.
     
  33. lars10

    lars10 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    3,322
    I know the yardage probably wouldn't have changed too much..but as I said in my post...they would've converted a few more of those third downs in the red zone. Also, those final two drives having both of them as options would've been nice.
     
  34. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    As that play unfolded, I thought initially Cooks was going to walk into the end zone, McLeod appeared out of nowhere to make that tackle.

    Just one of a whole list on woulda, coulda, shoulda moments that will haunt me forever.
     
  35. Soxy Brown

    Soxy Brown Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I'm watching the replay on NFL Network and I think Al and Cris were spot on about the Clement TD. Can't believe it wasn't overturned. Not blaming it for the loss but that seems like an obvious call.

    Also, Jordan Richards and Johnson Bademosi were really, really terrible in this game. It's incredibly hard not to focus on the Malcolm Butler thing considering how close the game was and how awful the defense was.
     
  36. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Stefen Wisniewski’s (Eagles starting LG) family was on my flight back (had to connect through Pittsburgh...gross). Father said his son mentioned how blocking the Patriots’ interior line wasn’t too difficult. So that was nice.
     
  37. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    This was on the strip sack. Man he had the flat wide open
     
    #4937 jsinger121, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  38. loshjott

    loshjott Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    That tweet is so, so dumb.

    If anyone is going to criticize Brady for taking 1-2 seconds to look for Gronk, Hogan, Amendola before checking down, I just don't know what to say.
     
  39. Ralphwiggum

    Ralphwiggum Member SoSH Member

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    I don’t know how you guys can watch that again. I’ve seen each of the winning Super Bowls more times than I care to admit. The ones they lost don’t even exist to me once they are over.
     
  40. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, seriously. He had been destroying them all game with big chunk plays and had a good pocket for almost the entirety of the game. The pocket just collapsed really quickly and a fluke swipe knocked it loose. Plus, it was 2nd and 2 so that was the time to look for a big play.

    Just a good play by Philly and one that I wish we were capable of making on Sunday.
     
  41. Humphrey

    Humphrey Member SoSH Member

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    I thought he should have cut in when he got near the defender he tried to jump over. I'm sure he would have made the first down or at least gained enough to make it 4th and very short (like a foot or two) rather than 4th and nearly-two. I do wonder, however, if there were slipping concerns on that field.
     
  42. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    I'm with you; watching any of the SB losses is a non starter for me, kudos to anyone who can watch them again.
     
  43. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    I immediately deleted it from the DVR; did not want to see any Eags celebrations. But, I later recorded one of the full versions on NFLN. I might go back and watch the Pats offense again...historic. Also, I miss some of the commentary and all the commercials in real time. Thing called SOSH...
     
  44. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Actually, I wish he had taken it right away. As soon as the play started I saw that it was open. I'd happily have taken another 8-9 yards and a stopped clock. They could have easily marched down the field like that. I didn't foresee a strip sack, but as soon as he was open I wanted Brady to deliver it. I yelled at the TV as the play was happening to get it to White.
     
  45. Byrdbrain

    Byrdbrain Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    That's fine, obviously with hindsight now everyone can see it would have been better for him to get rid of it. It doesn't change the fact that questioning Brady for doing what worked all night and got him over 500 yards of passing in the game is dumb.
     
  46. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    No I don't disagree. I was yelling it in real time so it wasn't a second guess for me. But that's ok. I can totally understand Brady looking downfield for something else and the rush just got to him a little too quickly. Brady was absolutely unfreakingbelievable on Sunday and I'm not even sure I would really classify this as a mistake. Just one of those things. I mean, most of the time he gets sacked he doesn't fumble. And half the time he fumbles, the Patriots recover anyway. It was just a perfect storm of crappy things - probably how Atlanta felt when Hightower sacked Ryan.
     
  47. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I guess we won't be hearing an explanation from Al Riveron on the replay reviews of the TDs.
     
  48. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Mrs. Dennis Wideman SoSH Member

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    What explanation are you expecting? The league didn't want the game to come down to the refs and they let a lot of things go on both sides. I can't say that I blame them, both of those calls were close enough to leave the initial call on the field and not make the SB a circus.

    There's no going back, it's in the books. Time to move on.
     
  49. westneat

    westneat lurker

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    It's not an explanation from Riverron, but here you can see how Steratore explained it to the crew:

     
  50. staz

    staz Intangible Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Not to go all Zapruder here, but because I'm a masochist, I took a frame by frame look at the Hail Mary. Yes, it still fell incomplete and we still lost. But if not for a desperation last second tip by #21 Patrick Robinson, Dorsett probably makes the catch. It happens after the ball bounced off Gronk's helmet for the last time and just before Robinson's fuller swipe that batted the ball back to where it hit the ground. You really have to scrub a couple of the angles back and forth to see that the ball is headed to Dorsett, and Dorsett is well-positioned to make what would have become the most incredible catch in SB history.

    Then successful 2-point, OT, coin lands how Slater tells it to, Brady does his Brady.

    It's loosely presented at:
    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-were-to-scoring-on-the-final-hail-mary-pass/
    ... but what I'm talking about takes place between the last 2 photos.

    3 out of the past 4 Super Bowls literally decided by last minute plays on the goal line. Insane.
     

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