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Week 14 at Miami

Discussion in '2018 Patriots Game Threads' started by RedOctober3829, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    Worst regular season loss in years. To me the worst playoff loss was to the Jets in 2010.(Next to Super Bowl 42) I'll have to think about when the last regular season loss was this devastating.
     
  2. scottyno

    scottyno Member SoSH Member

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    steelers got 48 yards and got out of bounds in 10 seconds on a last second hook and ladder to set up a field goal vs oakland today, if pats try to get a td and don't score and miami gets that same 48 yards in 10 seconds they would have been close to fg range and still had time to run another play. Not exact parallels, but certainly shows that a fg would have been possible
     
  3. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    The Patriots practice a lot, and I’m sure try to go over as many game situations in practice as any other NFL team. Maybe they just have never tried to duplicate that kind of play in practice because it is so weird and it hardly ever happens (once a game possible and only if it’s do or die for the opponent). Still, if guys were standing around, no excuse for that. I deleted it from the DVR right away so I can’t look at it easily (not going looking for it either). Bucky Dent/Aaron Boone play.

    The devastating ending game this most reminded me of was the Ben Dreith game. That is going back a while.
     
  4. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    KC has some Andy Reid/postseason demons to exorcise. Let’s not punch their ticket yet.
     
  5. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    They were not the same team without Hunt. And Hill is hurt now, too
     
  6. lars10

    lars10 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Gilmore has to be on the other side in case they lateraled over there.
     
  7. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    And to think I hated the Dolphins with the fire of 10,000 suns BEFORE what happened yesterday.

    They've had some bad playoff losses (1976, the Scottish game, 2010 vs the Jets, 2015 AFFCG vs the Broncos), but I'll defy anyone to tee up a regular season loss as bad as that one, specifically one with an ending like that.

    So it's fair to say Miami is this franchises personal house of horrors; the stadiums, coaches, players, opposing coaches and players all change, the results pretty much stay the same.

    And as far as Dolphins fans trolling the game thread after a loss; don't let it annoy you, we're talking about a franchise that since that ass kicking by the Patriots in the 1985 AFCCG has gone to exactly one AFCCG since and has a playoff record of 6-11...…………….during that same span, the Patriots have won 29 playoff games and 5 Super Bowls.

    They are a team on the road to nowhere, so let them have their fun for one whole day, the Patriots once again will be in the mix for a Super Bowl, their team once again will be in the mix for tee times.
     
  8. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    20,274
    I wake up today feeling somewhat similar to the day after the 2015 loss in Denver (in which we feared we had lost Gronk for the season, but found out he would only be out a few weeks): while it felt like a crushing, season ending blow, the Pats still have three more regular season games to play and control their own destiny for a bye. The season simply isn’t over, unless they allow this defeat to beat them again next week. Every championship team has demoralizing losses, even late in the season. Think about how Philly fans felt when Wentz went down last year. Or when Gronk when down in 2016. Or when Manning turned into a complete pumpkin in 2015 and threw those 4 picks vs. KC. When the Pats couldn’t stop Rodgers in Lambeau in 2014. When the 2013 Broncos blew the 24-0 lead to the Pats. When the 2012 Ravens lost a bunch of games and fired their coordinator. And on and on. Winning isn’t easy, even the best teams lose awful games. Now, this is a little different in the Belichick era, losing on this type of play. But if Miami had driven the field down 30-28 for a game winning field goal, there would be no real difference vs. what happened: the D was awful and as a result what should have been a comfortable win was instead pissed away. We are all pissed because we “had the game won” but that game was nip and tuck the whole way and could have easily ended as a loss even without the last play. Josh Gordon said something about the season not being over and the need to rally and he is right. This will define their season if they let it. Or it will be a footnote if they can make a run, like the awful 29-28 loss in 2004 in Miami.

    The thing I can’t figure out is why the D is quite competent and competitive at home but a total sieve on the road.
     
  9. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Can't dwell on the loss anymore. All of the goals for the season are still out in front of them. Win 3 in a row and the 2 seed is theirs. Get some help from LAC and Seattle and the 1 seed is theirs. The AFC is a total toss up with 4-5 teams that could come represent the conference in Atlanta even if they had won yesterday.
     
  10. Humphrey

    Humphrey Member SoSH Member

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    In recent memory I have to go with the Denver game in 2015; if you recall that game was in the bag until Jones (?) fumbled the punt and was basically never heard from again. Plus,IIRC Gronk got hurt after that play, didn't he? Cost the Pats home field and Denver's perhaps the only place in January I'd rather not play a big game at vis-a-vis Miami.
    Prior to that the Colts go-for-it-on-your-own-30 game, but I think looking back on that one, they way the season played out; the Pats simply were not very good and a desperation move of that type was not that out of order.
    Before that? Have to go back to the John Lennon game in 1980.
     
  11. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Chris Harper muffed the punt. Gronk got hurt but was a beast in the playoffs.
     
  12. The Needler

    The Needler lurker

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    PFF graded him out at 86.2, his third best grade of the season, and the third best grade in the league for the week. But yeah, mediocre.
     
  13. m0ckduck

    m0ckduck Member SoSH Member

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    The Denver game sorta directly cost them a trip to the SB. (The week 12 game, I mean, by tipping HFA). Ghastly as it was, this Miami game hasn’t cost them anything concrete yet. Therefore, it’s gotta be DEN 2015 for WOAT pending further developments.
     
  14. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    11,784
    It was tough to lose that one because the Pats built up a lead, but they were shorthanded going into the game and it kinda took a miracle to get ahead like they did (Bolden had an 80-something-yard TD reception, IIRC). And Denver was a really good team. Sunday's loss probably won't be as important, but it's much more embarrassing.
     
  15. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    More embarrassing in the sense of the last play, but the Pats had a 14 point 4th quarter lead and basically would have been in the clear had they not muffed a punt. They had completely outplayed Denver to that point, unlike the Miami game which was far more 50-50.
     
  16. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    They really struggled offensively that day; the first two TDs were on a short field after a shanked punt and a pick, and the third was a fluky long completion to Bolden. The muff was early in the 4th and Denver would have had enough possessions to tie things up even without it. The Patriots were hanging on to that game for dear life, and the defense just collapsed down the stretch. It was pretty symbolic of their season; they started 10-0 and then were just beat to crap by injuries and fell apart. They lost 4 of their last 6 and winning any of them would have given them HFA; honestly, the complete implosion against a terrible Eagles team at home the next week probably bothered me more than losing shorthanded to a really good Broncos team in Denver.
     
  17. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    I don't disagree, but it was a 14 point lead on the road in the 4th quarter. It was a collapse.

    Edit: prior to the muff, the Broncos had run 50 plays for 207 yards. Post muff, 226 yards on 27 plays. That muff changed the entire season in a way - it started the entire downward collapse.
     
    #1617 tims4wins, Dec 13, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  18. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    11,784
    It was barely in the 4th quarter; there were 14 minutes left. The Broncos had time not only to score twice but actually three times and still left the Pats enough time to tie it with a late FG. The Patriots' injury-depleted offense against an outstanding Denver D had no ability to run the clock out (they had 16 carries for 39 yards on the day).

    FWIW, the Pats O only had 301 yards of total offense on the day. So Denver outgained them by well over 100 yards. The Pats were not dominating, the couple big plays had just gone their way.

    Honestly, I hate hate hate that people still dump that whole season on Chris Harper. Yeah, the muff was terrible, but the O could get nothing going, the D collapsed down the stretch, they laid a complete egg at home against a garbage Eagles team*, then lost their last two. They had tons of chances to salvage the season and failed again and again and again. Harper's muff was only a small piece of the puzzle.

    *To elaborate on this, that Eagles loss was horrible. They were 15 seconds away from going into halftime with a seven point lead, then they had a punt blocked, not only blocked but returned for a TD, so they went in tied. In the third quarter, still tied, they drove to the goal line and then Brady made one of the worst mistakes of his career, throwing an interception that was returned 99 yards for a TD. Then they allowed a punt return TD, then drove into Eagle territory and Brady threw another pick, then the defense got in on the suck, allowing a long TD drive ... just nightmare after nightmare. The Eagles came into that game having lost three in a row and Chip Kelly got fired less than a month later. That bothers me way more than the Broncos loss.
     
  19. m0ckduck

    m0ckduck Member SoSH Member

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    823
    Either way, isn't it SB equity we should care about when evaluating regular season losses? Whether you care to be miserable about the DEN game (my go-to choice) or the Eagles game the next week, the point is that winning at least one of these games would have averted a ghastly @DEN postseason loss. The MIA game hasn't— yet— cost anything.

    For perspective: 2013 contained a truly annoying sequence of losses. Week 7 OT loss at Jets: Pats ST player flagged for penalty that had only that week been decreed a penalty on FG miss in OT that gave NYJ another chance > right call by letter of law, wrong call by spirit of game. 4 weeks later: refs throw holding call on Gronk in end zone on final play against Panthers, but pick up flag and run off field > wrong call by letter of law, (arguably) right call by spirit of game. Yet, this doesn't annoy me for more than 15 sec because the Pats were not winning the SB in any case that year.

    Likewise, 2012 losses to Arizona and Baltimore— both, arguably, caused by crappy replacement refs. Yet, we still had playoff HFA and lost to BAL, so who really cares?

    2015 is a different story. We could have sent gimpy Manning home towards retirement in snowy ignominy in Foxboro and headed on to play the Panthers in the SB, but no..
     
  20. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    20,274
    Yes. Exactly.
     
  21. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    11,784
    Isn't 2013 the same as 2015? They finished one game back of Denver but would have had the head-to-head tiebreaker because they had beaten them, but they had to play in Denver and lost (that was the game where Talib went out with an injury early and they could not stop the Broncos). Might have been a different story in frigid Foxboro. Or are you saying they would have had no chance against the Seahawks in the Super Bowl?

    Another crazy what-if is the loss to the Giants in 2011. That was a wild one: scoreless at halftime, Pats committed four turnovers, and they still rallied to score a go-ahead touchdown with 1:40 left - only to see the Giants march 80 yards in a little over a minute to win it. Without that win, the Giants finish 8-8 and don't even make the playoffs. As it was, they lost four in a row after that and barely snuck at 9-7 - only to knock off the 10-6 Falcons, the 15-1 Packers, the 13-3 49ers, and the Pats.
     
  22. m0ckduck

    m0ckduck Member SoSH Member

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    823
    Hmm, that's an interesting point— I'd forgotten that we were only one game off the Broncos' pace in 2013. I guess I take a dim view of the 2013 team as a legit title contender:
    • They needed some real miracle wins to get to 12-4 (the NO Kenbrell Thompkins win, the Broncos comeback game you mentioned, the win over Cleveland when Gronk got hurt, wild 34-31 win at HOU). Expected W-L had them at 10.5 wins. Denver had double their point differential and seemed better to me wire-to-wire (other than flat giving up during the SB, I suppose)
    • Some posters on this board seem to remember a close 2013 AFCCG. I remember a game where the Pats weren't really competitive. They fell behind 23-3 in the 4th Q and scored what were basically garbage-time, prevent-D points to make it respectable on paper. Expected points had them losing by 20. You're right that the Talib injury really hurt them— not to mention the previous season-ending injuries to Gronk, Wilfork and Mayo— but the injury gods were at least as cruel in 2015. In short, I don't feel that 2013 game would have been a gimme in Foxboro to the same extent as in 2015.
    • Strength of competition, as you noted: besides the Broncos, the Seahawks were waiting in the wings. 2015 had a weaker field, so it feels more akin to 2006 in terms of squanders.
    God. That was such an annoying loss in real time that I think I would have had an aneurism if I'd had any inklings of the long-term ramifications.
     
    #1622 m0ckduck, Dec 14, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  23. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    20,274
    Well with the KC loss we can say that the Miami game may have cost us big time.
     
  24. NJ_Sox_Fan

    NJ_Sox_Fan Member SoSH Member

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    Cost them the # 1 seed no doubt
     
  25. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    Really? I think there is plenty of doubt they win out.

    Det and Tenn games were still worse, too.
     

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