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W.S. Hangover Cures: The Devil is in the Details...

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by Pozo the Clown, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. Pozo the Clown

    Pozo the Clown lurker

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    687
    Repeating (in baseball) is never easy. If it was, someone would've done it since the last millennium. How Cora, DD, et al, will go about seeking the elusive cure for "the hangover" should prove fascinating and worthy of its own thread (unless the Dopes disagree). Please keep the emotional, knee-jerk, ten-too-many-beers commentary to the game threads.

    After yesterday's loss, Cora said (link below): "I pay attention to details...I love paying attention to details and that’s something I took pride last year, and right now, we’re not paying attention to details...We’ve got to get it going. Regardless of the results – you win or lose – but stuff like that can’t happen, and that’s a reflection on us. I’m accountable, and I expect better things out of the group... We have to play better. That’s the bottom line. Like I said, I take pride in that stuff. Details. And details win ballgames." https://weei.radio.com/blogs/rob-br...d-sox-loss-we-re-not-paying-attention-details

    From another article (link below), David Ross said: "I think it’s a fine line in rest and actually being prepared and what that formula is I don’t know. We had a lot of distractions and repeating is hard. Being on two World Series teams, that second year finding that energy on a Wednesday day game early in the year when the last thing you remember is 50,000 people screaming, for me it’s hard to find that motivation and energy that takes your game to the next level that you had in October. It’s hard to duplicate that at the beginning of the year. It’s a combination for me of a lot of different things. And you’re told by the organization to rest and take your time. I think it’s difficult to get off to a good start." https://weei.radio.com/blogs/rob-bradford/can-red-sox-learn-lessons-2014-hangover

    Thankfully, it's still very early and the other so-called "super teams" have had shaky starts of their own. What unfolds over the next 6 months should provide ample fodder for quality discourse. Have at it!
     
  2. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    If the Sox hadn't blown early 3-0 leads in each series finale, they'd be 4-4 and no one would be talking about this.

    But they did blow those leads, when the defense and pitching were bad at the same time. Now tonight more of the same - a 2-1 game got out of hand very quickly on three bad defensive plays in a row. It's early but unless they win these last two games, this is a huge hole they've dug themselves, the one thing you don't want to do in April.

    as atrocious as those two parts have been, the offense has secretly been punchless too. They've had a few 3-run innings but nothing higher, an explosive game-changing (or covering up the rest of the mistakes in a game) inning they are capable of many times over. All three outfielders are not making the difference on offense that they can be. 2B has turned into the black hole again. Really, only JDM and Swihart are pulling their weight.

    very early but you never want to go 3-7 in a 10 game stretch. and that's the BEST they can do now in these first ten.

    (and yes, I'm assuming tonight is a lost cause, 7-1 in the 6th. prove me wrong!)
     
  3. Seels

    Seels Member SoSH Member

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    2,260
    I understand having games stay out of the shitty conditions of April at Fenway but the defending champs shouldn't have to start the season when most of their fans can't even watch the games. I've been able to watch 3 games this year and they've all been out of reach within the first 3-4 innings.

    Baseball shouldn't be played in March. Shorten the season or make some other change.
     
  4. Wake49

    Wake49 Member SoSH Member

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    12-1 now, so there’s that.
     
  5. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

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    Schedule is done before there’s a champion determined.
     
  6. j-man

    j-man Member

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    its unfair for the champs to start a 11 game road trip and your owners shouild push back and said i am not giveing up 2 home games to my biggest rival unlees they give up 1 or 2 as well
     
  7. Jerry’s Curl

    Jerry’s Curl lurker

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    I don’t think the schedule matters this is not a good team right now.
     
  8. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    the only thing I'll say about the schedule is that I think Seattle & Oakland, having played two that counted in Japan the week before, were more prepared and it showed. drawing 8 road games against them off the bat was rotten. but then we got destroyed by Arizona tonight, so it probably didn't change much if anything.

    I am pretty concerned this team hasn't even had a lead entering the 9th inning yet. Or I think 8th or even 7th. that's hard to do in a 9 game stretch.
     
  9. irinmike

    irinmike Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The only thing unfair is the way the starting pitching staff is handling hitters right now.
     
  10. Adirondack jack

    Adirondack jack Member SoSH Member

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    All these (relatively) underpaid guys are playing like it's October while the local nine are playing like its February in Orlando.

    Things are rarely as bad as they appear
     
  11. Koufax

    Koufax Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    When Eduardo Nunez's 9.0 ERA is better than most of the starters, something is not right.
     
  12. pokey_reese

    pokey_reese Member SoSH Member

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    If we move Nunez to the rotation, he can’t hurt us with the bat or glove, so it’s win-win.
     
  13. mauidano

    mauidano Mai Tais for everyone! SoSH Member

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    27,228
    Exactly. And EVERY team plays 81 at home and 81 on the road. No excuses with the schedule. Try to salvage the next two and head home. Pitch better. FFS when you score 8 runs, you should be able to win games.
     
  14. joyofsox

    joyofsox empty, bleak Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Or the 6th!!!

    Leading after 6 innings: 0-0
    Tied after 6 innings: 1-0

    Leading after 7 innings: 0-0
    Tied after 7 innings: 1-0

    Leading after 8 innings: 0-0
    Tied after 8 innings: 1-0

    Red Sox score first: 0-3

    Scoring less than 3 runs: 0-2
    Scoring 3 or 4 runs: 0-2

    From today's Game Notes:
    The Red Sox also went through a 2-6 stretch during 2018 (August 19-26).
    The 2003 Marlins and 2011 Cardinals started 2-6 (or worse) and went on to win the World Series.
     
  15. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

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    At least they are undefeated at home.
    I think for a lot of them the season starts Tuesday. Probably still feels like spring training playing on the West Coast against teams you don't play all that often. Not to mention the little work the starting pitchers got in spring training. If losing a few in April means they are strong come Aug/Sept/Oct then sign me up.
     
  16. The Gray Eagle

    The Gray Eagle Member SoSH Member

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    The Red Sox will play 79 at home and 83 away this year.
     
  17. patoaflac

    patoaflac Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah. I don’t understand why in both London games they are the home team.
     
  18. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Most disconcerting is the -26 run differential. They aren't just losing, they are getting murdered. Nobody is worse than -13.

    But it's only 9 games, too, so it's extremely early. Time to focus, not panic.
     
  19. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    20,911
    It could be worse - we could be the Cubs

     
  20. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

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    Somewhere Joe Girardi is smiling.
     
  21. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity Member SoSH Member

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    Well, they are 8th in runs scored in MLB. I'm not worried about the offense (even though admittedly those numbers are probably inflated because teams are putting in their shitty pitchers once they've built up a massive lead). And the bullpen has been mostly fine (other than white-flag guys like Johnson).

    It's really purely an issue of the starting pitching and defense. Unless there is something more serious going on behind the scenes I have to think that those facets will eventually revert to the mean - the problem is whether by that point in time the Sox will already be in too big of a hole.
     
  22. uncannymanny

    uncannymanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Is it just me or have they gone against a lot of soft tossing starters so far? Obviously this doesn’t excuse the starting pitching, but might explain why they’ve had difficulty scoring runs in the early parts of a lot of games.
     
  23. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    another 3-0 lead turns into a loss. you can't make this stuff up all in one road trip.
     
  24. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I've never put any stock in Spring Training results. But Manager Cora put a shit load of stock in it last season, bragging about how well the team did. This year, he downplayed it big time and the team was miserable. And they've been miserable to start the season. There was a clear change in the way the team approached ST this year, perhaps for good reason, but a major change nonetheless. And the results of ST carried to the regular season both seasons.
     
  25. twibnotes

    twibnotes Member SoSH Member

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    If this continues, can we change this thread to be a discussion about cures to actual hangovers?
     
  26. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

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    Agreed. Win/loss results mean nothing but one of the most important functions of the manager is getting their team prepared and motivated to play crisp baseball out of the chute. Huge failure this year.
     
  27. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not burying the team at all yet just because of history. Did any of these past teams go through the toughest road trip of the year to start off?

    it's a mixture of factors all going wrong. it's going to be alright, but probably not going to run away with the division this year. or maybe they'll be in first place come May 1 anyways, who knows?

    in particular, I'd like to see all three outfielders play much better. Beni has looked good this weekend actually, but Mookie & JBJ are absolutely stinking it up and it's killing the team on both sides of the ball.
     
  28. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Four times this year they've gone up 2-0 or 3-0, and all four times they've lost. They're practically inventing ways to lose now.
     
  29. dhappy42

    dhappy42 Straw Man

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    I blame the west coast road trip and regression. Last year’s team over-performed expectations with 108 wins. (And it was glorious.) If the team is really a 100-win quality team, then 92 wins this year would be more-or-less normal.
     
  30. Heating up in the bullpen

    Heating up in the bullpen lurker

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    191
    Clearly the pitchers didn't leave Spring Training ready for the season. The team babied them after the extra innings of October, and it shows.
    Anybody else wonder how much of the overall funk is due to being distracted by contracts? A couple times during the spring I saw comments from JD and Mookie about what was going on with the unsigned free agents, the CBA and such. Then we've got Sale and Bogaerts signing their extensions, Porcello a FA at the end of the year, Mookie being asked repeatedly about his upcoming FA opportunity, etc. These guys are playing like they've got something else on their minds...
     
  31. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity Member SoSH Member

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    2,804
    Agreed. I do think Cora got cocky (maybe subconsciously) about how easy everything went last year for the most part and figured that, since the team was so good and since pretty much the same team was coming back, they could take it easy and just turn it on when the games started counting.

    So the silver lining here is that hopefully Cora will learn from this experience and that nothing can be taken for granted regardless of how good you think your team is heading into the season.
     
  32. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    37,455
    Doed anybody have a link to @Scoops Bolling 's Toast! hangover cure gummies?

    They work. Better than the team thus far...
     
  33. aksoxfan

    aksoxfan Member SoSH Member

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    Are families with the team on this road trip?
     
  34. Salem's Lot

    Salem's Lot Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog! SoSH Member

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    I’m sure they’re all at their offseason homes. Especially the ones with kids. School doesn’t get out for a couple of months.
     
  35. Patek's 3 Dingers

    Patek's 3 Dingers lurker

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    I don't believe contract situations has anything do with how the Sox are playing. Price, who seems less confident than other pitchers, had his second best season in terms of WAR during his contract year and Trout had another great season in 2018. Hitters can't have something else on their minds during the .25 seconds they have to deal with a pitch.

    I've often heard announcers talk about contract years as if it motivates players to have their best years ever.
     
  36. SoxinSeattle

    SoxinSeattle Member SoSH Member

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    We know for sure that at least Brock's family was with the team.
     
  37. RIrooter09

    RIrooter09 Member SoSH Member

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    Mookie’s extended family and child was with him in Seattle.
     
  38. Maximus

    Maximus Member SoSH Member

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    Exactly, you hit the nail on the head.
     
  39. Plympton91

    Plympton91 bubble burster SoSH Member

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    Does that mean they’re getting a bigger share of the gate?
     
  40. Plympton91

    Plympton91 bubble burster SoSH Member

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    Blaming the west coast trip for a systematic failure of starting pitchers to answer the bell on the regular season is bush league whining. I wouldn’t even let my daughter’s travel team use that excuse if they showed up this flat to a major out of state tournament, let alone major leaguers flying on private jets between luxury hotels. Good grief.
     
  41. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah I think you could point to it if there was some underperformance in the margins here and there. You absolutely cannot blame it for looking comically bad in absolutely every facet of the game and getting repeatedly blown off the field. It likely isn't anyone one thing, but "long west coast trip" explains dropping a couple winnable games at the end of the trip or something. This is so clearly beyond that.
     
  42. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'd love to see Nunez kept out of the lineup for a game or two for not running to first base on the wild pitch on strike three. This is NOT an example of a guy paying attention to things
     
  43. Red(s)HawksFan

    Red(s)HawksFan Member SoSH Member

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    Wouldn't running to first have been admitting that he didn't check his swing, which he was clearly trying to sell (or believed he'd done)? I'm first in line to chastise a player for lack of hustle, but I'm not sure that was the case this time.

    If it was a full swing and a miss and he stood around, that would have been unforgivable (for swinging at the bad pitch and for not running).
     
  44. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

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    10,181
    Ump called the strike really late also.
     
  45. richgedman'sghost

    richgedman'sghost Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Once again, Lose chimes in without considering the context of the situation. As other's have mentioned, the ump placed Nunez in a lose/lose situation. (See what I did there)Lol If Nunez runs to first, he is admitting he swung at the pitch. But if he doesn't run, then he will get thrown out easily. Plus the ump made a very late call on the pitch.
     
  46. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Once the ball gets that far away you run. No one cares if you K'd and reached on the WP, but hoping they call it a ball advances the runner not at all.
     
  47. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    It wasn't lack of hustle, so much as a plain old blunder. Looked to me that he got fixated on what the 1st base ump was going to call on the swing and so didn't run. I suspect a fair number of MLB players would have done the same thing. I don't think he was trying to "sell" anything. It just didn't occur to him in the moment.
     
  48. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    7,167
    If Nunez really felt he checked his swing, then the right play is to wait for the umpire to call it "no swing". Especially when the home plate umpire is really late on the call.
     
  49. Pozo the Clown

    Pozo the Clown lurker

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    From what I saw, Nunez appeared to have successfully checked his swing. He then waited on the home plate umpire who took a long time to point down to the 1st base umpire for the call.

    Of all the miscues/brain farts that have plagued the Sox during their opening road trip, this one (if it even qualifies as such) is WAY down the list.
     
  50. keninten

    keninten lurker

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    523
    This road trip could be just the wake up call the team needed to get focused back in. Last year everything fell into place and now they`ve got to realize they have to fight to make the playoffs.
     

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