Vazquez to DL with broken pinkie, out 6-8 weeks

DeadlySplitter

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it was on that stolen base when Perez bobbled it and didn't even throw through. seemed to be a simple headfirst slide. geez
 

grimshaw

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I bet Dan Butler still comes up or Ohlman - whomever is better defensively. They are covered everywhere else. They can put Pedey on the 60 day to make room.

Edit: Never mind, didn't see that Cora said Swihart would be back up.
 
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dbecks

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Well, Swihart never had the consistent reps... Call me crazy, but I think he’s gonna mash.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I bet Dan Butler still comes up or Ohlman - whomever is better defensively. They are covered everywhere else. They can put Pedey on the 60 day to make room.

Edit: Never mind, didn't see that Cora said Swihart would be back up.
You needed Cora to tell you this was the move?

I mean, why else did you think Swihart was still here? It was never just for pinch hitting in blowouts. That was just a bonus
 

Hawk68

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I think this is Blake Swihart's MLB chance.

He will get increased playing time here, and if the Sox deem him unsuited to catch for a first division contender, will deal him before the trade deadline - for a journeyman catcher to fill the role.

But either way, I believe this launches his MLB career.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Well, Swihart never had the consistent reps... Call me crazy, but I think he’s gonna mash.
Okay, you're crazy.

The relentless optimism here about Swihart in the face of all evidence is unbelievable. He's been one of the worst players in baseball this year so far, but he had a couple of good weeks in meaningless spring training games, so, oh boy, this is his big break!
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Okay, you're crazy.

The relentless optimism here about Swihart in the face of all evidence is unbelievable. He's been one of the worst players in baseball this year so far, but he had a couple of good weeks in meaningless spring training games, so, oh boy, this is his big break!
The guy has had absolutely zero consistency at the plate or in the field for 3 season straight now. Everyone yells about short sample sizes before making any predictions. I've been saying we should do the same for the Blake too, and that's all we've had from him. I was calling for his release just because he seemed to be doing nothing but wasting away and given next to zero chances (and yes... sucking when he was given a chance, but who the hell wouldn't in such small and sparse samples?) to prove anything. Glad Dombrowski stopped listening to me. I'm confident in him
 

Byrdbrain

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Okay, you're crazy.

The relentless optimism here about Swihart in the face of all evidence is unbelievable. He's been one of the worst players in baseball this year so far, but he had a couple of good weeks in meaningless spring training games, so, oh boy, this is his big break!
I think saying he is going to mash is crazy too but he hit reasonably well in 2015 in MLB as a 23 year old. Yes he's sucked this year and for a couple of years but it isn't crazy to think he could at least hit reasonably for a catcher if given a chance.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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I think there is a decent chance with consistent reps that he hits better. He can’t really hit worse.
 

grimshaw

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You needed Cora to tell you this was the move?

I mean, why else did you think Swihart was still here? It was never just for pinch hitting in blowouts. That was just a bonus
Back up other positions and hit well enough to do it. He has 14 innings behind the plate. Even for a 3rd stringer with Vazquez being beyond awful that is ridiculous. They clearly don't want him back there.

He's there now, let's see what happens.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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The guy has had absolutely zero consistency at the plate or in the field for 3 season straight now. Everyone yells about short sample sizes before making any predictions. I've been saying we should do the same for the Blake too, and that's all we've had from him. I was calling for his release just because he seemed to be doing nothing but wasting away and given next to zero chances (and yes... sucking when he was given a chance, but who the hell wouldn't in such small and sparse samples?) to prove anything. Glad Dombrowski stopped listening to me. I'm confident in him
I think saying he is going to mash is crazy too but he hit reasonably well in 2015 in MLB as a 23 year old. Yes he's sucked this year and for a couple of years but it isn't crazy to think he could at least hit reasonably for a catcher if given a chance.
I think there is a decent chance with consistent reps that he hits better. He can’t really hit worse.
So why does anyone think he'll get more consistent play to prove himself because of this? The Sox clearly don't trust him behind the plate. I'd wager Leon plays 80% of the time now. The Betts injury gave Swihart some opportunities to play the outfield or DH last month and he was putrid. Why are the playing time and the results going to be different this time?
 

phenweigh

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So why does anyone think he'll get more consistent play to prove himself because of this? The Sox clearly don't trust him behind the plate. I'd wager Leon plays 80% of the time now. The Betts injury gave Swihart some opportunities to play the outfield or DH last month and he was putrid. Why are the playing time and the results going to be different this time?
Surely Leon will get the majority of playing time, but I'd wager less than 80% by a fair amount. The Sox preferring Vaz and Leon is not the same as clearly not trusting Swihart. They clearly trust him enough to have kept him. The answer to your final question is because baseball often surprises. Almost any results Blake posts going forward wouldn't surprise me.
 

Coachster

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Lots of interesting roster moves this morning. Vas AND Brian Johnson go on the 10-day, Cuevas and Ryan Brasier to the show. Brasier's first MLB appearance since 2013.
 

tonyarmasjr

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So why does anyone think he'll get more consistent play to prove himself because of this? The Sox clearly don't trust him behind the plate. I'd wager Leon plays 80% of the time now. The Betts injury gave Swihart some opportunities to play the outfield or DH last month and he was putrid. Why are the playing time and the results going to be different this time?
Just a quick look at the last 5 years shows me that the largest share of catcher PAs that any single catcher for the Red Sox has had over that span is the 62% that Vazquez has had in 2018. I realize we aren't talking a full season in this scenario, so it's feasible that a single catcher could see a larger share of the duties over a shorter time period. But it doesn't make much sense that the guy on the short end of that split in 2018 will all of a sudden be playing significantly more often than any other catcher in recent history.
 

soxeast

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So why does anyone think he'll get more consistent play to prove himself because of this? The Sox clearly don't trust him behind the plate. I'd wager Leon plays 80% of the time now. The Betts injury gave Swihart some opportunities to play the outfield or DH last month and he was putrid. Why are the playing time and the results going to be different this time?
If the Red Sox continue to win while Swihart is behind the plate he'll play unless his defense is a complete disaster. He would need to be a complete disaster for him not to play. If you win with him, you don't want to wear down Leon. And if he doesn't play now, then what's the point of even having him?

I don't understand your Betts point. Swihart can more easily replace a guy with a negative -6 WAR in Vazquez than a guy with a 5.5 WAR in Betts. At the time the bottom of the order was so lousy while losing a stud bat in Betts, Swihart looked even more incompetent for an OF position you need a much higher level of a combo of bat/field. And to further make a point regarding "results" - the more at bats you give a player the more likely regress/progress to their mean. We are hopeful his bat will be better than .180.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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So why does anyone think he'll get more consistent play to prove himself because of this? The Sox clearly don't trust him behind the plate. I'd wager Leon plays 80% of the time now. The Betts injury gave Swihart some opportunities to play the outfield or DH last month and he was putrid. Why are the playing time and the results going to be different this time?
If he gets 20-30% of the plate appearances it’s still an increase. Heck, if he hits .200 it’s an improvement. I’m not expecting much here.
 

ehaz

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Also glad Sandy gets more time as the clear cut #1. I don’t have anything but my eyes to confirm this, but I think Leon is a far better game-caller for the pitching staff.
 

santadevil

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The good old head first slide. If you're not a graceful runner better to go feet first (or wear the damn mitts).
He was wearing the mitt on the right hand. I don't see how he could've done anything to his hand on that slide. He didn't seem to come up like he was injured
 

tonyarmasjr

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If he gets 20-30% of the plate appearances it’s still an increase. Heck, if he hits .200 it’s an improvement. I’m not expecting much here.
To this point, he's appeared in 41 of 90 games (46%), with full-game duty in 17 of them (19%). 30% of catching PA right now is 105 PA. He has 88 PA, 64 in those full-game appearances. In those, he's hitting 11 for 58 (.190 AVG / .266 OBP). In his PH/PR/late-game-sub role he's 4 for 23 (.174 AVG / .208 OBP). Somewhat interestingly, all 4 of those hits have come in the last 2 weeks.
 

DJnVa

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Let’s not mistake full-game duty with consistent playing time.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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I don't understand your Betts point. Swihart can more easily replace a guy with a negative -6 WAR in Vazquez than a guy with a 5.5 WAR in Betts. At the time the bottom of the order was so lousy while losing a stud bat in Betts, Swihart looked even more incompetent for an OF position you need a much higher level of a combo of bat/field. And to further make a point regarding "results" - the more at bats you give a player the more likely regress/progress to their mean. We are hopeful his bat will be better than .180.
The point was not to suggest that Swihart would have been expected to replace Betts (or even come close to it), it was to suggest that, contrary to the notion that he has not been given a chance to play with any regularity, he had that chance to play somewhat more regularly in late May/early June because Betts was out. He started 10 games out of 15 from May 26 to June 10, during which he hit .176 with no extra base hits and 2 RBIs. In other words, given a chance to contribute, he was terrible. Why would Cora see that and think, "I gotta figure out a way to get this guy in the lineup"?

Yeah, yeah, small sample size and all that, but I don't see any reason to expect anything else. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he proves me wrong.
 

mostman

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Also glad Sandy gets more time as the clear cut #1. I don’t have anything but my eyes to confirm this, but I think Leon is a far better game-caller for the pitching staff.
Well, there’s “Catcher’s ERA” if that’s worth anything. Sandy is 3.13 in 38 games. Vazquez is 3.76 in 59 games. Team ERA is 3.57.
 

soxeast

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The point was not to suggest that Swihart would have been expected to replace Betts (or even come close to it), it was to suggest that, contrary to the notion that he has not been given a chance to play with any regularity, he had that chance to play somewhat more regularly in late May/early June because Betts was out. He started 10 games out of 15 from May 26 to June 10, during which he hit .176 with no extra base hits and 2 RBIs. In other words, given a chance to contribute, he was terrible. Why would Cora see that and think, "I gotta figure out a way to get this guy in the lineup"?

Yeah, yeah, small sample size and all that, but I don't see any reason to expect anything else. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he proves me wrong.
Okay but if he hits .250 over the remaining time he gets to play as catcher - before this season his average was .270 - so if he hits .250 from this point and isn't awful at catching-- how much of a difference would you see between him and Vaz? You're right - I agree- Swihart is not the type of guy you need to get into a lineup -- unless he can do well enough at catching. I'm not a big fan of either. But looking forward to see what Swihart can show. I agree wiht you- you are probably right- we shall see.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Red Sox catcher Christian Vazquez is having surgery and is expected to miss 6 to 8 weeks, Alex Cora just announced. Cora adds he is comfortable with Leon and Swihart. Will be interesting to see if Dombrowski gets catcher before July 31.
 

Coachster

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OK, assuming they will go with Leon and Swihart for a while, are we going to continue to keep an extra pitcher, or will this be the beginning of the Adam Lind era? Or the beginning of the Brandon Phillips era? Hey, he's 3 for 8 at Lowell!
 

PrometheusWakefield

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I would be very irritated if we go get another catcher. Swihart is as good an option as anyone we could get without using resources, and there's no reason to use resources to get somebody when CV will be back in 2 months.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I would be very irritated if we go get another catcher. Swihart is as good an option as anyone we could get without using resources, and there's no reason to use resources to get somebody when CV will be back in 2 months.
Yeah, Swihart was kept around pretty much for this exact situation. They're not about to expend resources now just to push him back down to #3.

Now if he or Leon were to also get hurt in the next few weeks, then maybe we see a move to acquire another catcher. But even then, it would probably depend on the severity of the injury and how long they think they would have to get by with Dan Butler or Mike Ohlman or Oscar Hernandez playing once or twice a week.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I can see them picking up a vet to play at AAA, in case there's another injury and they need a replacement in a hurry.

Someone they could purchase kind of like that Leon guy they picked up early in 2015 and had down in Pawtucket for awhile
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I can see them picking up a vet to play at AAA, in case there's another injury and they need a replacement in a hurry.

Someone they could purchase kind of like that Leon guy they picked up early in 2015 and had down in Pawtucket for awhile
They've got three such vets already in Pawtucket in Butler, Ohlman, and Hernandez. Hernandez even has an option should they need to add him to the 40-man, though he missed the first two months of the season on a drug suspension so he may not yet be up to the task (he's played 20 games, hitting 211/313/333).
 

richgedman'sghost

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I thought Hernandez was injured and not due to a drug suspension. When did he return to play? I have learned little to nothing about his recovery.
 

ehaz

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What about Vazquez' strong framing and better than league average in throwing out runners ?
According to BP, Leon is a better than average framer as well (not as good as Vaz though). They rate similarly with throwing out runners the last few years as well as blocking.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Vaz had caught Rodriguez all 17 games this year and so I was worried whether the switch to Sandy would go smoothly. I didn’t see much of an issue. Not surprising, just one of those things you wonder about. They had obviously worked together before, just not this year.

With Sale and Porcello now only pitching to Sandy, I think you can start to chart out when we’ll see Swihart. Night games before day starts for those two, for example, and maybe for Price’s spot and the 5th starter spot. Vaz usually catches Wright, so that could be tough, but at least Sandy has caught him out of the bullpen.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Vaz had caught Rodriguez all 17 games this year and so I was worried whether the switch to Sandy would go smoothly. I didn’t see much of an issue. Not surprising, just one of those things you wonder about. They had obviously worked together before, just not this year.

With Sale and Porcello now only pitching to Sandy, I think you can start to chart out when we’ll see Swihart. Night games before day starts for those two, for example, and maybe for Price’s spot and the 5th starter spot. Vaz usually catches Wright, so that could be tough, but at least Sandy has caught him out of the bullpen.
Swihart has more MLB experience catching Wright than Leon does (71 innings vs 49), for what it's worth.
 

grimshaw

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Cora has said that Leon would be ridden pretty hard until the break, so I'm thinking Blake just starts one of the remaining games until then.

It makes sense to start him in a game vs the scrubs (Twins, Tigers, Orioles) before the deadline. Then there are three off days in August up until roughly the 6 week mark of Vazquez' injury.

I think we're talking about a half dozen starts or so, if that.