Value of Kawhi Leonard

[BigSoxFan]

Given that I enjoy watching SA play, I've been amazed at how much Kawhi has progressed these past few years. At this point, I'd be interested in seeing where others rank him. I know 2 years ago coming off his awesome NBA Finals, some weren't ready to proclaim him as a franchise guy. But now? Absolutely.

So, the question is:

Factoring in salary, age, future of NBA game, who are the players you would take over Kawhi Leonard right now in a hypothetical franchise building scenario?

 

[Blacken]

Steph Curry. Maybe LeBron. Maybe Kevin Durant. Maybe Karl Anthony-Towns.

Near as I can tell, that's the list.

 

[jon abbey]

Yeah, that would be close to my list, maybe include Westbrook and Draymond Green also as possibles, but Curry seems like the only clear higher choice.

Can we ditch the entire All-Star Weekend next year in favor of a Leonard/Green full-court one-on-one, first to 21?

 

[moondog80]

Yeah, that would be close to my list, maybe include Westbrook and Draymond Green also as possibles, but Curry seems like the only clear higher choice.

Can we ditch the entire All-Star Weekend next year in favor of a Leonard/Green full-court one-on-one, first to 21?

That's about right.

 

[BigSoxFan]

No love for Anthony Davis?;

 

[moondog80]

No love for Anthony Davis?;

Sure, he's in the mix. His stock took a small hit this year and people will say he's injury prone, but it's not like Leonard is Cal Ripken.

 

[chilidawg]

I try to imagine any of those guys on a weak team, and how much they could carry them. Seems like Curry, Lebron, Durant and Westbrook could carry a team. Not to a championship, but would make the difference between a lottery team and a competitive playoff team. Leonard and Green I'm not so sure. Great players but they still need scorers around them. Paul would probably be next on that list, but I don't think he's quite up there with the others.

 

[mauf]

I try to imagine any of those guys on a weak team, and how much they could carry them. Seems like Curry, Lebron, Durant and Westbrook could carry a team. Not to a championship, but would make the difference between a lottery team and a competitive playoff team. Leonard and Green I'm not so sure. Great players but they still need scorers around them. Paul would probably be next on that list, but I don't think he's quite up there with the others.

This kind of thinking is what has made Carmelo Anthony a perennially overrated player, even before his skills began to erode. There are definitely guys who can make a bad team good singlehandedly, but once you get past the most 2-3 sublimely gifted players in the game, those guys usually don't overlap with the guys you'd want as cornerstone players on a contending team.

Leonard couldn't make a bad team competitive single-handedly, but if I'm building a franchise around someone, he ranks ahead of anyone except Curry, LBJ, Durant, Westbrook, Davis, and (maybe) Towns. If you had to win a 7-game series starting tomorrow, Towns comes off that list, but CP3 and Nowitzki might go on depending on who the other players on the team were.

Draymond has been so underrated that he's actually becoming overrated in some circles -- he's a fine player, but he's a cut below the guys in this discussion.

 

[jon abbey]

Draymond has been so underrated that he's actually becoming overrated in some circles -- he's a fine player, but he's a cut below the guys in this discussion.

Disagree, his versatility is pretty unparalleled and he's still getting better, he's had career highs in 3 pointers made (8) and blocked shots (7) just in the last three games.

I did forget Anthony Davis, though, he's of course right up there.

 

[wutang112878]

I try to imagine any of those guys on a weak team, and how much they could carry them. Seems like Curry, Lebron, Durant and Westbrook could carry a team. Not to a championship, but would make the difference between a lottery team and a competitive playoff team. Leonard and Green I'm not so sure. Great players but they still need scorers around them. Paul would probably be next on that list, but I don't think he's quite up there with the others.

Ditto. I think Draymond is a great player defensively and his position flexibility is incredibly valuable on any team. However, offensively without Curry and Thompson the game would be much, much more challenging for him. Right now his opponents are petrified to bring doubles/help from the outside and teams literally cant leave Curry alone for a split second. This year Draymond took 49% of his shots within 3 ft according to basketball reference and there is no chance that happens if he was traded to say the Celtics.

Leonard is a bit of a different case, he doesnt have a teammate who is superior to him but I always think the Spurs are just a different case than everyone else. Their team play really brings out the best of every single player on the roster, I think what Pop does is amazing. Kawhi is certainly carrying more of the offensive load than Draymond, but if they traded him for the Raptors 2nd round pick, I dont think he gets the Raptors to contention or say the Heat or the Hawks. I will say I have a much more difficult time evaluating what Kawhi might be like elsewhere than with Draymond.

 

[Kliq]

Leonard and Draymond are interesting cases and I tend to side with the leading scorer argument if I'm starting a franchise from scratch. I don't think that question is really indicative of Kawhi's true value to a team. Compare either him or Draymond with Harden. I would rather have Harden if I am starting an expansion team because he can do so much for you offensively and carry the team on offense for huge stretches of time. Kawhi is great, but we have never seen him really ever have to do that and it's unclear if he could handle it.

Now if I had a 45-50 win team and I was looking to add a player to my team then I would like to have Leonard or Green than Harden. Those guys historically, get a lot of credit and are recognized for their greatness. Joe Dumars is probably more revered than Alex English.

 

[Blacken]

No love for Anthony Davis?;

I love Anthony Davis, but I think Kawhi is a better player for the current NBA. But call him a "maybe" too. I think Westbrook is definitely in my "maybe" group, too, but I'm not sure Draymond is. And that's not a knock on Draymond, but more a recognition of him in the system he's in. I'm not sure how good he is when he is not playing for the Golden State Flying Death Machines. And it's totally fair to also say that Kawhi has not been seen outside of a similar Spurs-gonna-Spurs environment, but I think he's better at doing something impactful when that system breaks down.

I could be wrong, and reasonable minds can totally differ.

 

[CreightonGubanich]

I'd take Kawhi over Draymond and Davis too. I didn't think he was going to be a good enough ball handler to create his own shot as a number one offensive option, but he's proven me wrong.

Draymond Green, though....I don't really have any idea how good he is, to be honest. I tend to agree that he benefits greatly from the system he plays in, but then you watch those games he played without Curry, and he's almost as essential a linchpin of that system as Curry is. It's insane to watch him essentially play point center, initiate the entire offense as a pick-and-roll ball handler, defend five positions, and knock down like 45% of his three point shots, many of which came off the dribble. He blocks shots, he rebounds, he runs fast breaks, he's their best defender inside and out...I mean, I don't know that you build a team around Draymond, but there's just no comparison to anyone else in the league. With Steph, we've seen great-shooting guards before, he just takes it to another level. Green is an evolutionary anomaly.

 

[Scoops Bolling]

Having seen Kawhi vs. Davis head to head a couple times, I'd have to go with Davis. Davis is the Pelicans' entire offense and their defensive lynchpin. It'd be like taking Duncan and Aldridge off the Spurs and telling Kawhi that now he has to defend from the perimeter to the post, as well as be the focal point in every offensive possession where he's on the floor. You can build a team around Davis a lot easier than you can around Leonard, because Davis can do basically anything. Leonard's not quite at that level.

 

[DJnVa]

I could be wrong, and reasonable minds can totally differ.

Holy shit.

 

[Blacken]

The next time you post something useful will be your first, DJ.