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Urban Meyer Put On Administrative Leave

Discussion in 'College Sports' started by Nator, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. OnWisc

    OnWisc Pegs his jeans SoSH Member

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    More and more it’s seeming like football programs should have a dedicated position senior to the coach and acting between him and the AD who is basically responsible for handling anything that doesn’t occur between the sidelines. As was said elsewhere, some people mature and others just collect birthdays, and too many of the latter group seem to be running these programs. These man-children may be accomplished when it comes to coaching football, but they have no business being the senior authority figure in anyone’s life or really making any non-football related decisions. Very few of them probably warrant the degree of autonomy or breadth of responsibility they are given.
     
  2. thestardawg

    thestardawg Member SoSH Member

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    Can the NCAA step in and levy a suspension on Meyer here? I mean, I know the NCAA is about as corrupt as the Mob, but it would seem to make a ton of sense for them to take action here.
     
  3. Humphrey

    Humphrey Member SoSH Member

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    They sure as hell stepped in on Penn State, not the coach, of course, as PSU had already fired him. The old "lack of institutional control" sanction?
     
  4. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

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    This probably isn’t over. Hard to imagine this not affecting recruiting and the public scrutiny over this may yet force their hand.
     
  5. PaulinMyrBch

    PaulinMyrBch Don't touch his dog food Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The suspension, on its face, seems about right if he truly did report these incidents as required. But when you look at this entire mess last night the optics are horrible. I would have expected as part of his suspension some training or required counseling where he learns a bit more about domestic violence and his reporting requirements. The lack of that, coupled with this suspension really being 1 week plus 2 Saturdays, coupled with his response to the questions about Courtney Smith, coupled with Smith's lawyers statement, plus everything else that is coming in regarding his phone, Smith's general conduct, etc., means OSU and everyone involved really missed the mark. The whole thing last night comes across as a plea to fans and season ticket holders that we're sorry, but football will be back to normal in direct time. Like that school has to worry about that fan base, which in my experience, is the most blindly loyal, distanced from reality, fan base I've ever seen.

    This is going to hurt recruiting, and not because other teams are going to negatively recruit, but because mothers of sons won't allow their son to play for him, that AD, or that school. Kids getting OSU offers have a ton of options, I bet some of them start looking around more than they have in the past.
     
  6. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

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    According to Finebaum, Meyer vehemently fought the suspension all day yesterday. He’s a pure scumbag.
     
  7. axx

    axx lurker

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    The big difference between this and Penn State is that it sounds like the Cops were aware.

    I mean, if the lawyer says you can't fire Meyer for cause, you're not eating the money. Maybe they should have fired the AD.
     
  8. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    They absolutely can. They absolutely won't.
     
  9. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    What happened is that Meyer basically made the university complicit by "reporting the 2015 incident to his superior " while taking no action. Once OSU allowed him to get away with that, they were cooked the moment he warned them with his statement three weeks ago that he would take OSU down with him if they tried to fire him.

    Now, maybe that is a distinction without a difference, in the sense that the lawyers undoubtedly told tOSU that "you can fire him for cause, but because you allowed him to retain Coach Smith, you will be deeply damaged during the inevitable litigation."
     
  10. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    FWIW, the Michigan blogs are saying that recruiting has not been negatively impacted, at least not yet. At least one recruit's mother has come out and explicitly defended Meyer, which was as gross as it sounds.
     
  11. PaulinMyrBch

    PaulinMyrBch Don't touch his dog food Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I would think if its going to be effected, we'll see evidence of it once when we cycle through 2-3 of the next classes. I would think rival coaches will get in the ears of the moms and dads and start to have an effect. Sort of like when Spurrier said he was only planning on coaching 2-3 more years instead of 4-5. Once other coaches started using that, it was a slow decline for recruiting. This is obviously different, and OSU casts a wide net.

    I guess its also possible, some parents stick their foot in the ground and refuse to let their kid go there, but it has no real effect because of the number of kids that still will. So it could be both, more kids refuse to play for him and it has no real effect.

    I did catch the apology on twitter last night. That seemed like he was speaking to fans and recruits more than to Courtney Smith. He's in cover the programs ass mode. Always has been.
     
  12. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    He gets indirectly paid by the fans (who pay for the tickets and shirts and team store chachkees). He doesn't get paid by Courtney Smith. Why are people expecting any different?
     
  13. ManicCompression

    ManicCompression lurker

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    Expecting and wanting are two different things. We should want a world where people are held accountable for their actions. It may never happen, but that’s no reason to not strive for it
     
  14. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    I’m not entirely sure anyone is suggesting we shouldn’t want that or should strive for it. But it’s also important to be realistic when discussing these things. This isn’t going to change shit, not with recruiting or the fan base or the donors or, frankly, it stopping it from happening again. It’s not a rosy perspective but it’s sadly the most likely the pragmatic take on it, even if being cynical. Unfortunately, money is too big of a motivator.
     
  15. ManicCompression

    ManicCompression lurker

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    Whenever an event like this happens, inevitably someone says something like, “well this person makes y organization x amount of money, so why should we expect anything different.” People lamenting the lack of punishment aren’t expecting it happen, they want to live in a place where it does happen. Such a world won’t exist if we don’t ask for it. To me, it’s better to be disgusted with the fans and teams who prioritize football games over human compassion than to shrug my shoulders at the inefficiencies of market principles.

    Yes, it’s important to be realistic, but it’s also important to keep holding feet to the fire no matter how futile it is.
     
  16. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    Agreed on all counts and I’m not disagreeing with you that I’d love to live in that world and it does take pointing it out to even keep a cap on it. However, the sad realization is that there is simply too much money involved here to expect anyone to be a decent human being, both at the OSU level and the NCAA level. I think we can be genuinely critical on how it was handled - from both an internal process and that abomination of a PC - but I’m going to stop short of being appalled the incident took place and was covered up. The organizations and individuals involved are pieces of shit, this whole thing ranks low on my ‘surprise’ radar.
     
  17. ManicCompression

    ManicCompression lurker

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    Right - I was responding to the post above mine that asked “why are people expecting any different?” I think all of us agreeing that they’re pieces of shit and that they did wrong here is a good thing. Hopefully everyone in this thread should be disappointed in this result while acknowledging that it was the most likely one.
     
  18. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Not to bring V&N stuff up--which is unnecessary--but as a factual matter, this would be going down completely differently were, for example, we still under the Obama presidency.

    In "recent" (in legal terms--so like a decade or more) years, the courts have accepted an expansion of the interpretation of Title IX to mean anything that contributes to an unequal or detrimental environment for female students. Harboring--to say nothing of knowingly recruiting--violent sex offenders has been a signature type of case in this regard. The Obama administration's DOJ was an enthusiastic participant in this area, including for the first time bringing Title IX to bear on transgender discrimination issues.

    If this had happened three years ago, it might well be crawling with feds. I thought that might be interesting to note.
     
  19. riboflav

    riboflav Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not very familiar with this story, but was she a student? My understanding is the victim is the wife of a football assistant. Am I wrong here?
     
  20. riboflav

    riboflav Member SoSH Member

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    Ah. Never mind. I see your point, Rev. Good to know!
     
  21. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Word. It's one of the strangely quietest yet largest expansion of legal protections maybe in American history, like in a pound for pound sense of how radical the moves were and how far under the radar they were. Like, I know about it from Title IX trainings (and one, er, interview... don't worry, we handled it.) but it really never has shown up on the radar for even most professors who teach public law, which is pretty crazy if you think about it--I was right in the most refined demographic imaginable to know about this development in law, and I found out about the area (which I afterwards researched the shit out of) in basically an HR training session at a school.

    The under the radar element could be really interesting in that while Trump has been rolling them back, that didn't make news either, so--and this is real time coverage now so I'm not reporting but speculating: the court precedents aren't being attack to attempt a roll back, which means, obviously, they remain intact.
     
  22. canderson

    canderson Fomenting voting confusion and angst since 2016 Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Zach Smith is having a mental breakdown, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up hospitalized soon.

    Glance through his Twitter feed today: @CoachZachSmith
     
  23. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    The reports coming out at Ohio State are simply astonishing. I have no idea what Meyer has on them, but he clearly owns them.

    One example: according to the report put together by Mary Jo White, they were hindered in getting an accurate read on Meyer’s actions because they were unable to retrieve texts from the key players in the investigation. Or, as the Washington Post put it:

    What’s even more stunning is the content of messages they were actually able to retrieve. Like this email from Shelly Meyer to Urban on July 23rd as the story gathered steam:

    Remember, this was sent during the time that Meyer was steadfastly denying that he had any knowledge of any allegations about Smith.

    These people disgust me.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...c0c0aa-abd4-11e8-b1da-ff7faa680710_story.html
     
  24. axx

    axx lurker

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    Coaches lie all the time to the media, that's nothing new. What he told the AD is what matters.
     
  25. LeftyTG

    LeftyTG Member SoSH Member

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    no, what matters is what he knew about Smith and what he did or didn't do about it. We know that he knew of Smith's behavior going back to 2009 and we know he didn't give a damn.

    It's cute that people think the AD is somehow in charge of Urban Meyer, or any high profile coach at a blue blood football school. He is the most powerful person on campus, and both Meyer and the AD know that. Trying to pass it off as if it is only an issue of Meyer reporting to the AD, as if it were a typical chain of authority, is deceptive.
     
  26. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    Meyer was telling the press that he had no knowledge of the 2015 police report even though it was later proven that his wife and the victim had spoken about it, and we now know that Shelly was emailing Urban about her fears related to the abuser and his alcoholism/rage issues at the very moment Urban was pretending to know nothing. Maybe it's just me, but it seems disingenuous to place that in the category of "every coach lies to the media."

    We also know that all of the officials involved made a concerted effort to suppress the truth by erasing and/or withholding records of their text communications. And that Meyer didn't put out his "I informed the AD" statement until after these communications had been purged.

    It doesn't take a brilliant detective to understand that Meyer and Gene Smith executed a successful version of what John Erlichman referred to as the "modified, limited hangout."
     
  27. twibnotes

    twibnotes Member SoSH Member

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    Ohio St had a golden opportunity to change its brand and image completely. They blew it and for the foreseeable future will be seen for what they are: a sports program with a school attached.
     
  28. axx

    axx lurker

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    Expecting Meyer to give a damn about anything outside of football activities is asking too much honestly. That's why you need the AD to handle those things. The part about the man-child is completely true.

    From who though, the media? It sounded like the Cops were aware. That part is confusing however.
     
  29. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    Meyer, Gene Smith, Zach Smith and Brian Voltolini (Director of Football Ops) were all found to have reset their phones to delete all texts More than a year old. This simultaneous "purging" took place the day after Voltolini informed Meyer that "a bad story" was out about Zach Smith's firing.

    The stated intent of the purging was to keep these texts from the media. In actual fact, these texts were lost to the media, cops, and, most importantly, the lawyers investigating the issue for Ohio State, as soon as they were removed from the phones.

    The larger point is that under Ohio's open records laws, I believe it is illegal for a state employee to delete texts if it can be shown that the purpose of the action is, in fact, to avoid disclosure.

    Not hard to find, but here's one article that quotes the report of the investigators for Ohio State.

    http://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/urb...leting-texts-zach-smith-strip-club-visit.html
     
  30. wilforks dingleberry

    wilforks dingleberry lurker

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    This post is wholly inaccurate and a leap to a predetermined desired conclusion, much like the majority of the national media's coverage on the situation. I have not seen a single report anywhere indicating a "simultaneous purging" between Meyer, Gene Smith, Zach Smith and Brian Voltolini. Where have you seen that reported? There are reports that Meyer and Voltolini discussed text's on Meyer's phone- not sure where you are coming up with this conspiracy of a simultaneous purging between the four of them??

    Secondly, Meyer's phone was turned over to his attorneys for preservation before anything was deleted. Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative though.

    https://thespun.com/news/urban-meyer-text-messages-identified

    Finally, Urban Meyer was suspended for his failure to take sufficient management action on Zach Smith and for not being completely accurate at Big 10 media day. He was NOT suspended for covering up DV.

    Directly from the investigative report: "Overall, Coach Meyer impressed us with a sincere commitment to the 'Respect for Women' core value that he espouses and tries to instill in his players... We believe (Coach Meyer), as did Zach Smith, that if Coach Meyer ever came to learn or believe that Zach Smith had physically abused his wife, Coach Meyer would have fired Zach Smith or any other coach on the spot."

    From OSU President Drake" "Based on the independent investigation, I want to state clearly that we believe Urban Meyer did not and does not condone domestic abuse."

    I haven't gone though the whole thread, but from skimming it you seem to be pounding the 'Urban Meyer is a PoS' narrative, regardless of if it is warranted in this case or not. Do I believe that Zach Smith is a piece of trash and a drunk and he should have been fired much sooner? Absolutely, and that is on Meyer. Do I think that the Powell Police, the investigative committee, Ohio State, Urban Meyer, Zach Smith's family, or heck even Courtney Smith's own family believe that Zach was abusing Courtney? All signs point to the contrary. Don't let those facts get in the way of your hatred for a football coach though.
     
  31. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    On July 25th, at least one publication made an open records request asking for texts covering the period of October 25, 2015 to December 1st, 2015. On August 1st, Meyer met with Brian Voltolini and asked how to reset his phone to erase all text messages older than one year. On August 2nd, Meyer and the others turned over their phones.

    This next part comes from the Washington Post, quoting the report:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...f7faa680710_story.html?utm_term=.7e43297a997a

    More detail, from the report itself:


    Apologies in advance if there are typos in the section from the report. Had issues with formatting when I cut and pasted the content, which forced me to manually retype some sections.
     
  32. TheRooster

    TheRooster Member SoSH Member

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    wilforks, did you really just use this quote in order to convince people that Meyer is a good guy?

    From OSU President Drake" "Based on the independent investigation, I want to state clearly that we believe Urban Meyer did not and does not condone domestic abuse."

    Even if they were firing Meyer, I would expect such a quote.

    Meyer chose to employ a very unstable (at best) and possibly dangerous guy in Smith. Since that has gone sideways, Meyer should have been fired. It is not surprising the OSU chose not to, since they are concerned with winning football games.
     
  33. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    But then... when you say Smith "should have been fired much sooner"... why? Just for being drunken trash?
     
  34. wilforks dingleberry

    wilforks dingleberry lurker

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    I am not trying to convince anyone that Meyer is a good guy, he has already been hung in the court of public opinion. His record speaks for itself at Florida and it wasn't pretty.

    I do think he has made a concerted effort at OSU to be better. When allegations of assault against a female were brought against All-Big Ten RB Carlos Hyde, Hyde was immediately suspended indefinitely. When video evidence came out exonerating Hyde and charges were dropped, Meyer still suspended him for 3 games and placed requirements that needed to be fulfilled by Hyde before he was able to return to the team. That's just one example, but player conduct at OSU has been far better than it was at Florida (not that that would be a high bar to clear, but it has been significantly better nonetheless).

    He's certainly not a saint, no one running a top CFB team is. That's not an excuse, just the reality. The media's narrative that he covered up DV (a lot of articles aren't even using the word "alleged", which is irresponsible at best), is simply false.

    Yea...pretty much? Smith underperformed in every aspect of the job and was kept on the staff because he was Earl Bruce's grandson. Urban admitted as much. Smith no showed on recruiting visits, was told by Meyer to go to rehab and left after 4 days, was late to practices and workouts, and clearly failed to represent the university in a positive manner. That's just off the field stuff, on the field his position group underperformed. It was a bad and embarrassing lapse in judgement for Meyer, but ultimately determined to not be a fireable offense.

    Personal opinion, punishment fit the crime. I wanted Urban gone if there was any sort of attempt to cover up DV. I wanted a full reinstatement if there was no cover up. After the fact, I agree the suspension was warranted as it was clear that Urban should have been more proactive in his discipline of Smith.
     
  35. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    When people covered by the open records laws change the settings on their university-owned phones to delete the specific texts being requested, is that not a cover up?
     
  36. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    @riboflav , you seemed interested before in the new approach to Title IX on college campuses that the judicial system has been enforcing and what it's all about, yeah?

    Specifically: do schools have a legal responsibility to keep the place safe for women?

    So yeah, it's about this stuff. :)
     
  37. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Literally doing nothing can be a cover-up, right?

    Cover up is a very obfuscatory verb for these purposes; I don't think it's a useful way of thinking about this at all, really.
     
  38. canderson

    canderson Fomenting voting confusion and angst since 2016 Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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  39. canderson

    canderson Fomenting voting confusion and angst since 2016 Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Those might not load. Check our @coachzachsmith. He is going off attacking Tom Herman and his wife.
     
  40. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    If Smith is equalizing domestic violence with adultery, someone better tell him he's living in the wrong millennium.
     
  41. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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  42. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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