UNC's academic scandal

Greg29fan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
20,502
NC
That is a complete fabrication by somebody.  AFAM 41 was an intro class to the department in the 90's and 00's before the class system was renumbered at UNC, and it was a lecture class taken by a wide variety of students.  It was not a "paper class" - one of the one's in the department that came under scrutiny.
 
There was no "final paper" either - the final was taken in person and written in blue books.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
UNC distro talking points to the alumni listserv?
 

Greg29fan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
20,502
NC
Are you serious?  Between Jay Smith, Mary (UNC employees), and the Alumni Magazine trying to destroy athletics from the inside and the weak responses from the administration to their own people, nobody is being more complicit in this thing continuing to fester than the university itself.  Shit, this guy (Marcus Paige addressing the Board of Trustees this week) should probably be running the entire thing.
 
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
So they did push athletes into the fake classes 
 
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11745036/north-carolina-investigation-says-advisers-pushed-sham-classes
 
NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/sports/university-of-north-carolina-investigation-reveals-shadow-curriculum-to-help-athletes.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSumSmallMediaHigh&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
 
 
CHAPEL HILL, N.C. — A blistering report into an academic fraud scandal at the University of North Carolina released Wednesday found that for nearly two decades two employees in the African and Afro-American Studies department ran a “shadow curriculum” of hundreds of fake classes that never met but for which students, many of them Tar Heels athletes, routinely received A’s and B’s.
Until now, the university has been at pains to emphasize that the scandal was a purely academic one; on Wednesday, for the first time, it acknowledged that it was also an athletic one, with athletes being steered specifically into and benefiting disproportionately from the fraudulent classes.
 
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
3100 students passed through a "shadow curriculum" that has existed nearly 20 years ...
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
dcmissle said:
3100 students passed through a "shadow curriculum" that has existed nearly 20 years ...
I look forward someone saying "but 3100 - see it was way more than just athletes!"
 
3100/20 = 155/year.  Or like about the size a football + m/w basketball rosters.  
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,017
DukeSox said:
I look forward someone saying "but 3100 - see it was way more than just athletes!"
 
3100/20 = 155/year.  Or like about the size a football + m/w basketball rosters.  
 
Wasn't it half of the 3100 were athletes? So, it's more like 75-80 year. I'm not excusing it mind you, just getting the math right.
 
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
Good point there - more detail below:
 
 
A total of 2,152 individual students who enrolled in the paper classes were included in this impact analysis. Of that number, 329 students (including 169 student-athletes) had at least one semester in which the grade they received in their paper class either pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0. In other words, for at least one semester in their college career, each of those students had an actual cumulative GPA above a 2.0 but a recalculated GPA (excluding the paper class grade(s))below a 2.0. This number includes 123 football players, 15 men’s basketball players, eight women’s basketball players, and 26 Olympic sport athletes. Of that number, we identified 81 students who earned degrees from Chapel Hill whose recalculated final GPA excluding the grade(s) from their paper class or classes was less than the 2.0 required to graduate.
So this shit literally kept players eligible / graduating.  
 

Jinhocho

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2001
10,283
Durham, NC
Seems like a very big deal.  Stuff that stood out:
 
1) Jan Boxhill, the chair of the faculty and weirdly not tenured, is implicated in this big time.  She took a lot of heat for her handling of the scandal as chair of the faculty and its clear why - she was up to her eyeballs in it in her work in athletics back then - working whatever angles to keep athletes eligible.
 
2) She worked closely with Debra Crowder, the AFAM dept admin.  Crowder (how the fuck did this happen) apparently graded the exams for all these folks and everyone knew about it.  Boggle.
 
3) The Associate Dean of the undergrad curriculum (cant remember title) Bobbi Owen told the chair of AFAM that he needed to cut down the number of paper classes because it was drawing too much attention.
 
The whole thing is nuts, especially given that I know a number of folks involved in this whole mess.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,373
Philadelphia
Jinhocho said:
Seems like a very big deal.  Stuff that stood out:
 
1) Jan Boxhill, the chair of the faculty and weirdly not tenured, is implicated in this big time.  She took a lot of heat for her handling of the scandal as chair of the faculty and its clear why - she was up to her eyeballs in it in her work in athletics back then - working whatever angles to keep athletes eligible.
 
2) She worked closely with Debra Crowder, the AFAM dept admin.  Crowder (how the fuck did this happen) apparently graded the exams for all these folks and everyone knew about it.  Boggle.
 
3) The Associate Dean of the undergrad curriculum (cant remember title) Bobbi Owen told the chair of AFAM that he needed to cut down the number of paper classes because it was drawing too much attention.
 
The whole thing is nuts, especially given that I know a number of folks involved in this whole mess.
 
Not only this, but this is something that the AD apparently "heard" but never followed up on.  So one of the key Deans at the school is taking steps to crack down on the number of "paper classes" in this department, the AD knows about it, yet in the end everybody involved is simply shocked to find out that these classes were so easy.
 
The whole thing is a joke.  Everybody involved in a position of power should be fired and the major teams involved should all face NCAA sanctions.  This is way worse than paying players or helping a kid cheat on his SAT.
 
Dec 10, 2012
6,943
Jinhocho said:
 
The whole thing is nuts, especially given that I know a number of folks involved in this whole mess.
I just can't wrap my head around keeping so many students so quiet for so long. It's like an AP level Fight Club.
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,405
Southwestern CT
dcmissle said:
3100 students passed through a "shadow curriculum" that has existed nearly 20 years ...
 
3100 is the number they were able to confirm.  But in the words of the report, this number "very likely falls far short of the true number."
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,405
Southwestern CT
The Napkin said:
Is this (from another board) for real?
 
 
Yes.  This email appears in the report itself and this very visual was featured in the NY Times story yesterday.
 
But remember, even with emails like this documenting the conduct, there's no proof that anyone in the university leadership ever knew about this program. 
 
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

writes the Semi-Fin
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2001
4,064
South Carolina via Dorchestah
One clarification...as a two-time former Associate Dean I would point out that Associate Deans typically have very little power and fulfill an administrative role with the real authority residing with the Dean.

That doesn't mean this Associate Dean did a good job...at the very least there was a responsibility to bring this to the Dean. And, of course, the Associate Dean could have refused to be party to this fraud and resigned.

But in general, Associate Deans don't have direct supervisory authority over Department Chairs, and it is unlikely this person could have on her own given an order to stop the independent studies.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,895
Here
This is the top story on CNN right now. I'm thinking we'll see basically 20 years of many of UNC's records erased from NCAA's history books. Hopefully we see some jail time, as well.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
Mr. Williams, tear down those ['05 and '09] banners!
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,405
Southwestern CT
Ed Hillel said:
This is the top story on CNN right now. I'm thinking we'll see basically 20 years of many of UNC's records erased from NCAA's history books. Hopefully we see some jail time, as well.
 
Here's the thing that keeps spinning around in my head. 
 
The most serious charge the NCAA can levy at a program or a university is "Loss of Institutional Control."  And it seems to me that creating a shadow curriculum that is used to keep your athletes eligible across all of the revenue generating sports over a two-decade time span is the very definition of loss of institutional control.  (Especially when the Chancellor admits that the reason they didn't discover it is that it was "hard for people to fathom" that a program like this could exist.)
 
If I'm the NCAA, I simply shut it down.  All of it.  Because the loss of institutional control is so great and the culpability so pervasive that it's pretty obvious that the school cannot be trusted to run a DI athletics program. 
 
Now, we know that the NCAA won't do this, because they are not a serious institution.  But when you stop and think about it, they really should.  Just shut it down for a two or three year period and issue "show cause" letters for every single coach involved. (Which has the effect of ending their careers.) It's really the only way to root out the nest of corruption that has taken hold at UNC.  And it sure would get the attention of the scores of universities who are running similar scams in an effort to prop up their wholly-owned sports ventures that masquerade as DI athletic programs.
 
As I said, it will never happen.  But a man can dream.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
Average Reds said:
 
Here's the thing that keeps spinning around in my head. 
 
The most serious charge the NCAA can levy at a program or a university is "Loss of Institutional Control."  And it seems to me that creating a shadow curriculum that is used to keep your athletes eligible across all of the revenue generating sports over a two-decade time span is the very definition of loss of institutional control.  (Especially when the Chancellor admits that the reason they didn't discover it is that it was "hard for people to fathom" that a program like this could exist.)
 
If I'm the NCAA, I simply shut it down.  All of it.  Because the loss of institutional control is so great and the culpability so pervasive that it's pretty obvious that the school cannot be trusted to run a DI athletics program. 
 
Now, we know that the NCAA won't do this, because they are not a serious institution.  But when you stop and think about it, they really should.  Just shut it down for a two or three year period and issue "show cause" letters for every single coach involved. (Which has the effect of ending their careers.) It's really the only way to root out the nest of corruption that has taken hold at UNC.  And it sure would get the attention of the scores of universities who are running similar scams in an effort to prop up their wholly-owned sports ventures that masquerade as DI athletic programs.
 
As I said, it will never happen.  But a man can dream.
 
 
Dec 10, 2012
6,943
Average Reds said:
 
Here's the thing that keeps spinning around in my head. 
 
The most serious charge the NCAA can levy at a program or a university is "Loss of Institutional Control."  And it seems to me that creating a shadow curriculum that is used to keep your athletes eligible across all of the revenue generating sports over a two-decade time span is the very definition of loss of institutional control.  (Especially when the Chancellor admits that the reason they didn't discover it is that it was "hard for people to fathom" that a program like this could exist.)
 
If I'm the NCAA, I simply shut it down.  All of it.  Because the loss of institutional control is so great and the culpability so pervasive that it's pretty obvious that the school cannot be trusted to run a DI athletics program. 
 
Now, we know that the NCAA won't do this, because they are not a serious institution.  But when you stop and think about it, they really should.  Just shut it down for a two or three year period and issue "show cause" letters for every single coach involved. (Which has the effect of ending their careers.) It's really the only way to root out the nest of corruption that has taken hold at UNC.  And it sure would get the attention of the scores of universities who are running similar scams in an effort to prop up their wholly-owned sports ventures that masquerade as DI athletic programs.
 
As I said, it will never happen.  But a man can dream.
I don;t know, I kinda think keeping a shadow curriculum and having 99.9% of stduents STFU about what's going on is the very definition of control, not lack of it
 
It's just a smaller subset of the institution, that's all.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Average Reds said:
 
Here's the thing that keeps spinning around in my head. 
 
The most serious charge the NCAA can levy at a program or a university is "Loss of Institutional Control."  And it seems to me that creating a shadow curriculum that is used to keep your athletes eligible across all of the revenue generating sports over a two-decade time span is the very definition of loss of institutional control.  (Especially when the Chancellor admits that the reason they didn't discover it is that it was "hard for people to fathom" that a program like this could exist.)
 
If I'm the NCAA, I simply shut it down.  All of it.  Because the loss of institutional control is so great and the culpability so pervasive that it's pretty obvious that the school cannot be trusted to run a DI athletics program. 
 
Now, we know that the NCAA won't do this, because they are not a serious institution.  But when you stop and think about it, they really should.  Just shut it down for a two or three year period and issue "show cause" letters for every single coach involved. (Which has the effect of ending their careers.) It's really the only way to root out the nest of corruption that has taken hold at UNC.  And it sure would get the attention of the scores of universities who are running similar scams in an effort to prop up their wholly-owned sports ventures that masquerade as DI athletic programs.
 
As I said, it will never happen.  But a man can dream.
 
It won't happen because the NCAA is run by its membership, the schools. It'd be like asking a member of congress to root out corruption in congress. Look at SMU. The NCAA never applied the "death penalty" again because the other schools didn't want that to potentially happen to them. The only time they came close was when a player was murdered and the coach covered it up (Baylor basketball) and when the actions of a pedophile were ignored. From SMU to now, the schools' power over the NCAA has only grown, culminating with autonomy, when the bigger schools threatened to leave the NCAA, which was about as overt a power move as could happen.
 
Whatever happens to UNC has to come from outside the NCAA, entities like the DoE or accreditation boards. If they sanction UNC then that would force the NCAA's hand. If a school has paper classes, what happens to their accreditation? Otherwise, I expect the NCAA to do whatever the other schools want them to do.
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,405
Southwestern CT
Infield Infidel said:
 
It won't happen because the NCAA is run by its membership, the schools. It'd be like asking a member of congress to root out corruption in congress. Look at SMU. The NCAA never applied the "death penalty" again because the other schools didn't want that to potentially happen to them. from then to now, the schools' power over the NCAA has only grown, culminating with autonomy, which was about as overt a power move as could happen.
 
Whatever happens to UNC has to come from outside the NCAA, entities like the DoE or accreditation boards. If they sanction UNC then that would force the NCAA's hand. If a school has paper classes, what happens to their accreditation? Otherwise, I expect the NCAA to do whatever the other schools want them to do.
 
I don't disagree with you.  In fact, I stated plainly that the NCAA won't do that.  But to expect an outside agency to do something is simply unrealistic.  Accreditation boards are even more compromised than the NCAA.  They won't touch UNC.  And what's the DoE going to do?
 
The good news is that events like this are only going to accelerate the inevitable fall of the NCAA.  So we have that going for us.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
10 players on the 2005 UNC championship basketball team majored in AFAM.
 

Monbo Jumbo

Hates the crockpot
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 5, 2003
25,234
the other Athens
 
One of the largest referrers to these fake courses run by the African and Afro-American Studies department was UNC's fraternity system. The investigators spoke to several fraternity members about the paper courses:
 
[Two] fraternity members explained that they saw these classes as somewhat of a "loophole" in Chapel Hill's otherwise demanding curriculum, and they never conceived of these classes as being in any way tailored to athletes. In fact, they recalled that a number of their non-athlete fraternity members took so many AFAM classes that they inadvertently ended up with AFAM minors by the time they graduated.
According to the Wainstein report, "Over the course of ten years, there were 729 enrollments in the paper classes by members of fraternities (and some sorority sisters)."
The report notes that fraternity members may have another incentive to take the courses besides a normal student desire for easy A's.
At UNC — much like athletes need a certain minimum GPA to remain eligible to compete — each Greek house needs to achieve an overall minimum GPA among its members to maintain university recognition and stay on campus. The report notes that the investigators "understand that the need to meet these requirements played a role in the decision among fraternity members to take these classes."

link
 
 
Southern frat boys inadvertently minoring in African American studies.  Hilarious.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2007
4,932
East Village, NYC
DukeSox said:
10 players on the 2005 UNC championship basketball team majored in AFAM.
 
And when one of them spoke out against the sham education he received, UNC fans attacked his statement as driven my bitterness over not being in the NBA and just wanting to make a buck from publicity.
 

StuckOnYouk

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
3,541
CT
Doesn't the NCAA work for the P5 schools now? If this was a G5 school Emmett would be sharpening the knives.
But here? I think he's goin to be as light as possible
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
Timing is right for some directional school to get whacked.
 
3-2-1 before wagons are circled and the counter-attack commences -- all this is causing Dean smith great pain and threatens to unfairly tar his legacy
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
dcmissle said:
Timing is right for some directional school to get whacked.
 
3-2-1 before wagons are circled and the counter-attack commences -- all this is causing Dean smith great pain and threatens to unfairly tar his legacy
 
The fake classes began in 1993.  
 
It's almost as if something happened in 1992 that might have spurred their creation.
 
Or perhaps it was a couple years in building, 1991 and 1992.
 
Did anything happen in both 1991 and 1992 that Dean Smith might have been close to?  Two years in a row?  Back-to-back, if you will?
 
Hmm....
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

has been programmed to get funky/cry human tears
SoSH Member
Apr 1, 2002
7,868
Michigan
So, it appears UNC might have to vacate some wins.

This will become known as the time out that never happened that ended the game that never happened:



It's a pity they stopped playing the third-place game years before that.
 

Bosoxen

Bounced back
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 29, 2005
10,186
dcmissle said:
Timing is right for some directional school to get whacked.
 
3-2-1 before wagons are circled and the counter-attack commences -- all this is causing Dean smith great pain and threatens to unfairly tar his legacy
 
I see what you did there.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
Chemistry Schmemistry said:
So, it appears UNC might have to vacate some wins.

This will become known as the time out that never happened that ended the game that never happened:



It's a pity they stopped playing the third-place game years before that.
 
Unfortunately I read that the first grade reporting date for the fake classes was 2nd semester 1993, after that game was played, so this probably wouldn't impact 1993 season.  
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
DukeSox said:
10 players on the 2005 UNC championship basketball team majored in AFAM.
 
Here is the list:
 
Jackie Manuel - AFAM
Sean May - AFAM
David Noel - AFAM
Melvin Scott - AFAM
Reyshawn Terry - AFAM
Quentin Thomas - AFAM
Jawad Williams - AFAM
Rashad McCants - AFAM
Marvin Williams - AFAM
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
Sherrell McMillan retweeted
Mark Armstrong ‏@ArmstrongABC11 19m19 minutes ago
Just finished long convo with Gerald Gurney - who has studied every NCAA academic fraud case and their adjudication since 1953...1/2
 
 
Sherrell McMillan retweeted
Mark Armstrong ‏@ArmstrongABC11 18m18 minutes ago
Long story short -- he called this the 'blue ribbon case' of academic fraud. Called it textbook LOIC and fully expects vacated wins/title.
 
 
Numerous articles calling on the NCAA to make this an example case and bring the hammer.
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-the-unc-scandal-is-ncaa-president-mark-emmert-s-chance-at-redemption-160034290.html
 
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/north-carolina-academic-scandal-wainstein-report-investigation-ncaa-102214
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
And here's a presentation Jan Boxill, the dean in the middle of this and the previous director of the ethics center (removed from the university website yesterday), gave a few years ago:
 
http://parrcenter.unc.edu/events/archived-events/2011-2012-events/lunch-learn-sports-as-a-public-forum-for-ethics/?searchterm=Boxill
 
 
Lunch & Learn: "Sports As a Public Forum for Ethics"
 
Parr Center Director and Chair of the UNC-CH Faculty, Jan Boxill, speaks on the role of ethics in athletic competition. As a microcosm of society, sports reflect and dramatize both our virtues and vices. ‘How we play the game’ tells us about ourselves and our values. Hear Professor Boxill illuminate how what we bring onto the field is integrally linked to world we create off the field.
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2001
14,095
Boulder, CO
The problem is, no one will care. Ask the U$C fans about Pete Carroll; they don't give a shit about vacated wins or titles. They got to go to those bowl games, win the titles, get the t-shirts. They still think PC was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Greg29 isn't going to suddenly think "yeah 2005 was a bad year for us."

The punishments aren't ever enough given that damn near every fan base sort of shrugs them off and says "whatever it was awesome being on the cover of SI".
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

has been programmed to get funky/cry human tears
SoSH Member
Apr 1, 2002
7,868
Michigan
About 20 years ago, someone on a local monthly wrote a report on a similar class at Michigan. It wasn't on this scale, but it was a class that athletes could take, and then only show up for the final and use an 'A' grade to maintain eligibility. It was under the "sports business" moniker, and the final exam included questions like "what is the capacity of Michigan Stadium?"

The odd thing is that what really bothers me about this story is that more than half of the kids in this fraudulent minor were not athletes. The thought that athletes in revenue sports are somehow students is a silly one. Why would they, with so much money on the line?

The NCAA is out of its depth on this one. Maybe they can find another Gurley to wag the dog.
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

Guest
Don't worry guys, the UNC Chancellor is taking it seriously:
 

"Bad actions of a relatively few number of people were definitely compounded by inaction and the lack of really appropriate checks and balances," chancellor Carol Folt said Thursday. "And it was together that really allowed this to persist for such a length of time."
 
...
 
Folt said she believed the school would have caught the fraud sooner if not for those since-removed exemptions.
The report points out there also were other chances to stop it.
Folt is holding everyone accountable.
"It really isn't something that you could look at as only one thing," the chancellor said. "It had the combination, and that's why we have to make sure we can't be complacent about it. We have to accept full responsibility for it."
 
I guess she hasn't decided yet who'll be thrown under the bus.  But seriously guys, everyone is accountable!  Everyone!  Especially that woman who has now retired.
 

The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools' Commission on Colleges had placed the campus on its watch list until this summer and required the school to allow students who took a bogus course to take another for free. The commission will send the school a letter in the next few days asking administrators to demonstrate they are in compliance with standards required for the seal of approval, SACS president Belle Wheelan said.
"What we would do is ask them is, this is bigger than you thought it was, what are you going to do now? It's a mess," Wheelan said.
 
Oh no!  Double-secret probation followed by a sternly-worded letter!  I'm sure it will be followed by the Comfy Chair and the Fluffy Pillows!
 
 
Hopefully this, the Ed O'Bannon case and the Taylor Branch piece in the Atlantic begin to change the tide.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

writes the Semi-Fin
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2001
4,064
South Carolina via Dorchestah
MentalDisabldLst said:
SNIP
 
 
 
Oh no!  Double-secret probation followed by a sternly-worded letter!  I'm sure it will be followed by the Comfy Chair and the Fluffy Pillows!
 
 
What do you expect SACS to do four days after the report was issued?
 
Longer term, would any of you advocate SACS pulling UNC's accreditation, thereby throwing every current UNC student's financial aid out the widow?  Here's what SACS has in its arsenal:
 
1.  Watch List--in other words, we hears some shady stuff is going on, but we have a process.  
 
2.  Probation -- We've done an investigation and we think you've got a problem.  Fix it or else.
 
3.  Revocation of accreditation - Your school is so far gone we will now destroy you.  All your current students will likely transfer.  All federal aid will disappear.  Every grant you've got will be revoked.  And all your alum will spend the rest of their lives  explaining to potential employers why they have a degree from an unaccredited institution.
 
A few years ago Morris Brown in Atlanta got revocation--a historically Black school that was facing financial collapse.  Its enrollment fell to 50 students. It is now barely operating (and selling off assets to keep the lights on).
 
SACS has its problems, but is is unreasonable to characterize this as the "comfy chair"--watch list is about the only immediate response that SACS can make prior to pulling together a formal team to review the UNC report.  
 
My bet is on probation, especially since some heads are going to roll.  No way they let an athletic scandal permanently cripple a major research university that otherwise has a excellent reputation.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,750
CBS Sports: UNC should get death penalty
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24765048/unc-should-get-death-penalty-in-academic-fraud-case-but-it-wont
 
Forbes: Wainstein report (which was paid for by UNC) probably whitewashes true extent of the knowledge of fake classes among administration and coaches
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2014/10/23/did-wainstein-report-whitewash-high-level-culprits-in-unc-grade-scandal/
 
Chronicle of Higher Education: UNC sucks
http://chronicle.com/article/Widespread-Nature-of-Chapel/149603/
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,405
Southwestern CT
Bernie Carbohydrate said:
 
What do you expect SACS to do four days after the report was issued?
 
Longer term, would any of you advocate SACS pulling UNC's accreditation, thereby throwing every current UNC student's financial aid out the widow?  Here's what SACS has in its arsenal:
 
1.  Watch List--in other words, we hears some shady stuff is going on, but we have a process.  
 
2.  Probation -- We've done an investigation and we think you've got a problem.  Fix it or else.
 
3.  Revocation of accreditation - Your school is so far gone we will now destroy you.  All your current students will likely transfer.  All federal aid will disappear.  Every grant you've got will be revoked.  And all your alum will spend the rest of their lives  explaining to potential employers why they have a degree from an unaccredited institution.
 
A few years ago Morris Brown in Atlanta got revocation--a historically Black school that was facing financial collapse.  Its enrollment fell to 50 students. It is now barely operating (and selling off assets to keep the lights on).
 
SACS has its problems, but is is unreasonable to characterize this as the "comfy chair"--watch list is about the only immediate response that SACS can make prior to pulling together a formal team to review the UNC report.  
 
My bet is on probation, especially since some heads are going to roll.  No way they let an athletic scandal permanently cripple a major research university that otherwise has a excellent reputation.
 
UNC isn't going to have its accreditation pulled for many of the reasons you have cited.  This is why I suggested that the only just punishment would be to shut down athletics. 
 
This won't happen either because UNC is (for lack of a better term) "too big to fail" from the perspective of academics or athletics.  A pity.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
The thing is, I thought the NCAA got it exactly right with the Baylor situation, impactful, brief, but short of the death penalty: one-year postseason ban, one-year non-conference game ban, limited scholarships for one year and limited recruiting contact for two years. Non-conference ban being the big thing, that gives the program some time during the season to think about what they are missing, but not the whole season, and doesn't hurt the other teams in the conference (the non-conf teams can easily schedule new games, sometimes against each other). And it definitely hurts the bottom line to lose games. 
 
I figured that would be the way to go for big stuff like Penn State and now UNC, but they went longer term (IMHO, wrongly) for Penn State. The Baylor ban was under Myles Brand, who had a better finger on the pulse than Emmert. NCAA is more unpredictable these days so who knows what they'll try to do.