U of Missouri: Racial unrest, a hunger strike and football players on strike

[canderson]

We should have a thread on this, as the situation is escalating quickly.

Short background as I know it: for many months black students at Mizzou have complained about racial issues. Racial taunts, threats, etc. The complaint is the president has done nothing to challenge the behavior or act to protect them. Many want him removed from office immediately.

Saturday night black Missouri football players announced that they will not participate in team activities until the university president is removed from office. The coaching staff publicly supported the action. As did the athletic department as a whole.

There is a graduate student now in a 7 day hunger strike saying he won't end it until the president is gone.

There is significant talk Mizzou may forfeit their game this week vs BYU, which is set to be played in Kansas City. This would force the university to pay BYU $1m in fees.

Today the Kansas City Star is calling for the president to be fired.

A rapidly accelerating crisis at the University of Missouri calls for drastic measures, starting with the departure of Tim Wolfe, the university system president.

Members of the Board of Curators need to step up and take control of the situation, something Wolfe refuses to do.

Wolfe’s response Sunday to explosive developments on the Columbia campus was woefully inadequate.

CNN has more background on this story.

A very sad story unfolding.

 

[soxfan121]

We should have a thread on this, as the situation is escalating quickly.
...
A very sad story unfolding.

Why do you think this is a "very sad story"?

I think this is a very interesting story, with my attention on coach Gary Pinkel, who you may recall shepherded the program through Michael Sam's collegiate career. Today, Pinkel tweeted out a full-team photo and said "we stand together" leading many to surmise he will back/support a player strike. This is not insignificant, as the football coach is often more powerful on campus than the President.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

One demand mentioned in the article is mandatory sensitivity training for all students. I bet that will go over well and produce the intended result.

I'm not sure what the protesters expect to happen in terms of preventing hate speech. This is a public university and speech codes implemented to prevent this type of issue are consistently struck down by federal courts on First Amendment grounds. An incident like a drunk kid walking by a gathering and yelling a racial slur then being shooed away by campus policy sounds like something that is going to be protected speech no matter the policy the school adopts. The school needs to be able to find the kid smearing the swastika on the bathroom wall before even thinking about what to do with him.

 

[JimBoSox9]

Why do you think this is a "very sad story"?

I think this is a very interesting story, with my attention on coach Gary Pinkel, who you may recall shepherded the program through Michael Sam's collegiate career. Today, Pinkel tweeted out a full-team photo and said "we stand together" leading many to surmise he will back/support a player strike. This is not insignificant, as the football coach is often more powerful on campus than the President.

Pinkel's a solid human being, but I think he'll be on the sidelines for this one. There isn't a campus in need of uniting so much as an ivory tower in need of assaulting, and other than solidarity I doubt he'll wade deeply into it, he's not the type. This is a game of politics in St. Louis and Jeff City, and it could get ugly if Wolfe is as set on digging in as it looks.

 

[Investor 11]

 

[Foulkey Reese]

"Ugly incidents this school year include racial slurs directed to a black student who is president of the Missouri Students Association, racial epithets hurled at the Legion of Black Collegians as they rehearsed for a performance and the discovery of a swastika drawn with human feces in the restroom of a residence hall."


I mean I don't know a ton about this so this is in no way a defense of Wolfe, but what exactly is he supposed to do about individual people being assholes other than suspend the ones who get caught?

 

[bosox4283]

I work in higher ed, so I've taken interest in this story. In particular, I really like some of the demands and think the students have focused on some very important issues. For instance, the group wants to include a plan that addresses the graduation rates for marginalized students; this idea is great as it addresses the worrying discrepancies in graduation rates. The group also wants the university to increase the percentage of faculty and staff, including counselors, of colors. Again, I agree with this goal: universities should strive to be as diverse as their communities.

Good for the students to find an unified voice. Good for them to play issues that matter to them above football. I tend to think that college is a time for young people to think and learn these sorts of skills. Where I work, we had a huge issue with divestment, and I thought it was great to see students organizing and rallying for a cause.

 

[canderson]

Why do you think this is a "very sad story"?

I think this is a very interesting story, with my attention on coach Gary Pinkel, who you may recall shepherded the program through Michael Sam's collegiate career. Today, Pinkel tweeted out a full-team photo and said "we stand together" leading many to surmise he will back/support a player strike. This is not insignificant, as the football coach is often more powerful on campus than the President.

I think it's sad it's come to a head like this and a populations of a higher ed institution feels like it isn't being heard apparently.

I agree with everything you say. It's just a shame this still happens in this country.

 

[bosox4283]

"Ugly incidents this school year include racial slurs directed to a black student who is president of the Missouri Students Association, racial epithets hurled at the Legion of Black Collegians as they rehearsed for a performance and the discovery of a swastika drawn with human feces in the restroom of a residence hall."


I mean I don't know a ton about this so this is in no way a defense of Wolfe, but what exactly is he supposed to do about individual people being assholes other than suspend the ones who get caught?

A college president can set the tone for the university, as well as create policies that work to improve the campus climate. A president can create programs to address these sorts of issues. A president can lead by example, say the right thing, and work to unite a hurt community.

 

[soxfan121]

It's just a shame this still happens in this country.

I think it is a shame it doesn't happen more often. Tommie Smith & John Carlos are exceptions, not role models for young athletes.

Agree or disagree with Butler's goals, but he's willing to literally put his money where his mouth is, using his athletic scholarship to truly explore all the educational experiences a college student can have.

/took over the admin building. twice.

 

[canderson]

I think it is a shame it doesn't happen more often. Tommie Smith & John Carlos are exceptions, not role models for young athletes.

Agree or disagree with Butler's goals, but he's willing to literally put his money where his mouth is, using his athletic scholarship to truly explore all the educational experiences a college student can have.

/took over the admin building. twice.

What? No I mean it's a shame racial bigotry and the ignoring of it still occurs.

 

[soxfan121]

Dan Wetzel with a good primer on what's going on: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/missouri-protest-is-a-sign-of-players--involvement-as-students--and-that-s-good-021854997.html

The issues are, no doubt, alarming and troubling when conveyed through media reports. They are also likely nuanced and complicated in real life. It's difficult to say. Many believe, with stunning certainty, that they know, one way or the other – that the president must go, or the players must be stripped of their scholarships. This is how America tends to work these days. Everything is hyper-partisan.

Yet there is nothing wrong or weak about saying you aren't sure, or that more needs to be discovered, or that just firing figureheads (or pulling football scholarships) is the only solution.

Maybe Wolfe is the worst guy in higher education. Maybe he isn't. Maybe the protestors have a point. Maybe they are missing it. Maybe the solution rests somewhere in the middle.

All of that is for the Missouri community to figure out, by careful and thorough analysis and investigation and reasoning, not because of howling students.

Which isn't to say those protests shouldn't occur. Those students have brought considerable attention to a serious issue: the remnants of racism that still exist on campus, which, ideally, should be free of such ignorance.

 

[IdiotKicker]

So here is my issue with how the situation is unfolding. Here is the list of demands by protesters:

I. We demand that the University of Missouri System President, Tim Wolfe, writes a handwritten apology to the Concerned Student 1-9-5-0 demonstrators and holds a press conference in the Mizzou Student Center reading the letter. In the letter and at the press conference, Tim Wolfe must acknowledge his white male privilege, recognize that systems of oppression exist, and provide a verbal commitment to fulfilling Concerned Student 1-9-5-0 demands. We want Tim Wolfe to admit to his gross negligence, allowing his driver to hit one of the demonstrators, consenting to the physical violence of bystanders, and lastly refusing to intervene when Columbia Police Department used excessive force with demonstrators.

II. We demand the immediate removal of Tim Wolfe as UM system president. After his removal a new amendment to UM system policies must be established to have all future UM system president and Chancellor positions be selected by a collective of students, staff, and faculty of diverse backgrounds.

III. We demand that the University of Missouri meets the Legion of Black Collegians' demands that were presented in 1969 for the betterment of the black community.

IV. We demand that the University of Missouri creates and enforces comprehensive racial awareness and inclusion curriculum throughout all campus departments and units, mandatory for all students, faculty, staff, and administration. This curriculum must be vetted, maintained, and overseen by a board comprised of students, staff, and faculty of color.

V. We demand that by the academic year 2017-2018, the University of Missouri increases the percentage of black faculty and staff campus-wide to 10%.

VI. We demand that the University of Missouri composes a strategic 10 year plan by May 1, 2016 that will increase retention rates for marginalized students, sustain diversity curriculum and training, and promote a more safe and inclusive campus.

VII. We demand that the University of Missouri increases funding and resources for the University of Missouri Counseling Center for the purpose of hiring additional mental health professionals — particularly those of color, boosting mental health outreach and programming across campus, increasing campus-wide awareness and visibility of the counseling center, and reducing lengthy wait times for prospective clients.

VIII. We demand that the University of Missouri increases funding, resources, and personnel for the social justices centers on campus for the purpose of hiring additional professionals, particularly those of color, boosting outreach and programming across campus, and increasing campus-wide awareness and visibility.

There are some really valuable things in there, in particular, the last three items make a ton of sense for me. But it's almost like they want to shoot themselves in the foot by demanding that the president write a letter and read it in the student center "acknowledging his while male privilege". Yeah, I'm sure that's likely to happen. I also think the concept of demanding that black faculty and staff be increased to 10% makes no sense, as first of all it is the exact type of system that you are railing against that guarantees placement at the expense of merit, and secondly, why not do 15% or 20% or some other arbitrary number?

There are really meaningful discussions to be had here, but they don't center on making someone you're trying to negotiate with look like a fool or trying to guarantee yourself the very thing you are fighting against.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

They are also demanding Wolfe be removed in addition to him apologizing, admitting "white male privilege" (I don't know what this means), and admitting "gross negligence" in the incident where his car allegedly made contact with a student. So why would he do any of those things?

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Here's a timeline of events according to a local newspaper: http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/racial-climate-at-mu-a-timeline-of-incidents-to-date/article_0c96f986-84c6-11e5-a38f-2bd0aab0bf74.html

I'm going to guess this really isn't about the specific incidents - which, as people have already noted - can't really be stopped unless the perp is arrested.

This article - http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/university-of-missouri-system-president-becomes-the-focus-amid-protests/article_c1a47001-c0ff-5eca-af53-8b1714432fcb.html - suggests that there has been anger building up from cuts that Wolfe was hired to implement.

And this article - http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/education/um-system-president-apologizes-to-student-protesters/article_a6e4c414-33c7-5a39-9e0d-11ceeff85006.html - seems to indicate that Wolfe has been tone-deaf to the protestors: for example, not getting out of his car while the protestors stopped him during a homecoming parade.

Board of Curators meeting at 10:00 a.m. today. Pretty interesting how much power the football players hold (given the $1M forfeit fee).

 

[RedOctober3829]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 14s14 seconds ago
Missouri President Tim Wolfe resigns

 

[soxfan121]

I would say wbcd's question has been answered.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 14s14 seconds ago
Missouri President Tim Wolfe resigns

Interesting. One unintended consequence of not paying players. Most of those players had almost nothing to lose by boycotting the game.

I wonder how much forfeit fees are in basketball? If the contracts are similar, then a group of six or seven basketball players have potentially a lot of power.

 

[InstantKarmma]

Interesting. One unintended consequence of not paying players. Most of those players had almost nothing to lose by boycotting the game.

Weren't they putting their scholarships at risk?

 

[jmm57]

I would also think football is significantly different in that you can't just dress up some random kids and have them play D1 football without serious risk of injury. I bet you could go around campus and find 6-7 kids in the field house willing to suit up for a D1 basketball game. Sure they would get destroyed, but much less risk for serious injury.

 

[soxfan121]

Interesting. One unintended consequence of not paying players. Most of those players had almost nothing to lose by boycotting the game.

I wonder how much forfeit fees are in basketball? If the contracts are similar, then a group of six or seven basketball players have potentially a lot of power.

I do wonder if some smart group of players on some team (say Northwestern, just for example) will see this as the next viable way to force action on unionizing/pay for players.

That would jeopardize their scholarships...and the whole corrupt system. The players now, theoretically, have the power to do something about it.

 

[AbbyNoho]

They are also demanding Wolfe be removed in addition to him apologizing, admitting "white male privilege" (I don't know what this means), and admitting "gross negligence" in the incident where his car allegedly made contact with a student. So why would he do any of those things?

You seriously don't know what white male privilege is?

 

[ninjacornelius]

I do wonder if some smart group of players on some team (say Northwestern, just for example) will see this as the next viable way to force action on unionizing/pay for players.

That would jeopardize their scholarships...and the whole corrupt system. The players now, theoretically, have the power to do something about it.

I'd be very interested to see what would happen if a school pulled a player's scholarship as a result of some act of protest. I think that the resulting lawsuit would scare the NCAA shitless.

 

[SoxJox]

I believe we have turned the bend on a new chapter in American collegiate sports. And it will be a sad chapter to read. If anyone thinks the handling of collegiate sports by the NCAA has been bad, well, we're in for some really exciting theme park rides here.

 

[soxfan121]

I believe we have turned the bend on a new chapter in American collegiate sports. And it will be a sad chapter to read. If anyone thinks the handling of collegiate sports by the NCAA has been bad, well, we're in for some really exciting theme park rides here.

So much vague sadness in this thread, so little explanation for the wistfulness.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Weren't they putting their scholarships at risk?

In this particular instance, no. Can't imagine how badly things would have gone if there was some suggestion of retaliatory action against the MO players.

In our hypothetical future situations, if 35 football players or 10 basketball players get together and demand a coach's ouster, are they really going to cancel all of the scholarships? Wouldn't that mean they'd have to forfeit the rest of the season?

That guy from Northwestern who was trying to unionize the players - what he really should do is organize a one-game walk-out of college football players. While granted that would be really hard to organize, if he did, he'd really shake the foundations of colleges.

 

[BroodsSexton]

That guy from Northwestern who was trying to unionize the players - what he really should do is organize a one-game walk-out of college football players. While granted that would be really hard to organize, if he did, he'd really shake the foundations of colleges.

If everyone pays a million dollar forfeit fee, does anyone pay a million dollar forfeit fee? Where does the money go?

 

[singaporesoxfan]

In this particular instance, no. Can't imagine how badly things would have gone if there was some suggestion of retaliatory action against the MO players.

Even if the players lost their scholarships, could another school offer them scholarships for the following year? Or would the NCAA's rules forbid that?

 

[SawxSince67]

Fascinating. Mizzou Journalism prof blocks an ESPN reporter from taking pictures.

 

[moondog80]

Fascinating. Mizzou Journalism prof blocks an ESPN reporter from taking pictures.

If the media stayed away from this, they'd be pissed about being ignored and start throwing around all sorts of baseless accusations.

Their cause may be just, but they're fucking morons.

 

[SoxJox]

So much vague sadness in this thread, so little explanation for the wistfulness.

What I meant was that we are now starting to see things happening in collegiate athletics that we would never have imagined just 10 years ago. Honestly, some - maybe even most - things may turn out for the better in the end, such as the recent firing of Illinois AD Mike Thomas over allegations from football and women's basket ball players. From all accounts, including the formal investigative report, Thomas was not found to have done anything improper (on the other hand, the football coach, Tim Beckman, was fired last August, and the women's b-ball assistant coach, Mike Divilbiss quit, although Matt Bollant remains as HC).

We look back [fondly?] and shake our heads at the Bobby Knights and Woody Hayeses of the NCAA coaching world. Certainly we have come a long way since those days. But my fear is that in what seems all corners of society we have moved into such a PC-conscious world that players can grab the upper hand simply by bringing an accusation. I'm not saying that's the case at Mizzou or Illinois, or that bringing an accusation in most cases is unwarranted, but I sense an ill wind for future developments. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[soxfan121]

What I meant was that we are now starting to see things happening in collegiate athletics that we would never have imagined just 10 years ago. Honestly, some - maybe even most - things may turn out for the better in the end, such as the recent firing of Illinois AD Mike Thomas over allegations from football and women's basket ball players. From all accounts, including the formal investigative report, Thomas was not found to have done anything improper (on the other hand, the football coach, Tim Beckman, was fired last August, and the women's b-ball assistant coach, Mike Divilbiss quit, although Matt Bollant remains as HC).

We look back [fondly?] and shake our heads at the Bobby Knights and Woody Hayeses of the NCAA coaching world. Certainly we have come a long way since those days. But my fear is that in what seems all corners of society we have moved into such a PC-conscious world that players can grab the upper hand simply by bringing an accusation. I'm not saying that's the case at Mizzou or Illinois, or that bringing an accusation in most cases is unwarranted, but I sense an ill wind for future developments. I hope I'm wrong.

1. Mike Thomas was fired for failure to do his job, i.e. proper supervision of the football coach - Beckman - who was doing shit that is pretty far from acceptable for any university employee.

2. WHO looks back fondly at guys who physically abused students and/or children? Oh...yeah.

3. Oh look, it's a "PC-conscious" complaint. From someone who clearly has not done any reading about the Missouri situation, and cannot cite what might be "PC" with this situation.

4. Yeah, you can't say that's the case...but you can imply it so heavily that no one reading could possibly miss it.

5. An "ill-wind". Well, thanks for getting detailed about "bringing an accusation". I would think you, of all posters, would understand that part.

So, it basically SoxJox's position that these uppity players and their unwarranted accusations portend an ill-wind for anyone longing for the good-old-days of college football, when coaches told you to keep your mouth shut, don't report wrong-doing and to think of the program. Players who "grab the upper hand" with "unwarranted accusations" just don't understand how things are done, or their place in the world. They are lucky to be at a university and they don't understand what a coach or a university president should do - they're just stupid college kids - so they should shut up and do what Beckman or Wolfe tell them to do - right?

And just in case anyone is missing the subtext - SoxJox has a long posting history in this forum, on these issues. Check any Penn State thread for his detailed thoughts about the "proper place" for players, accusers, university presidents and coaches.

EDIT: The above was a cheap shot, and wrong. I apologize to SoxJox.

 

[SoxJox]

My intended message obviously missed the mark. So let me try again.

1. I agree with Mike Thomas' firing.
2. The "fondly" comment was in jest. I'm very poor at picking the times when jests can be construed as such. This was one of those times. I'm certainly not defending the behavior of anyone like Knight, Hayes, or similar others.
3. The PC-conscious comment was not made directly at the Missouri situation. If you read again what I wrote, I think you will see that. In fact, I really didn't even make a reference to Missouri. I said explicitly that's "[not] the case at Mizzou or Illinois." If it seems implied, I did not intend it to be so. I certainly did not characterize the players as "uppity" or bringing "unwarranted accusations" and agree something needed to happen at Missouri in this specific instance. I just don't think most of us would have anticipated it taking the form that it did. It's very nature is unique, I think. Therein lies the uncertainty going forward. That uncertainty is what I was commenting on.

Would you not agree that we are in uncharted waters? And I'm not suggesting that the reason we find ourselves there is necessarily bad. I'm just a bit uneasy about it because I don't know what unintended outcomes may follow. I admit. I am somewhat concerned. But it's not because Missouri players and students spoke out. It's because in my wildest imagination I would never have anticipated this path being taken. It opens up a while new world of possibilities.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Eh stuff like this is exactly why racism exists in 2015. The faculty at UM failed miserably and deserved to be ousted. The students have clear rights to freedom of assembly. This is all fine. The acknowledgement of male white privilege sounds like a bad South Park joke but whatever. The privilege thing is awful when you compare it to third world countries and the conditions that they live in. I know that it's not a PC thing to say but all lives matter. By not acknowledging this and focusing on one group of people and mentioning that their lives matter you're just perpetuating the racist BS that is setting this country back.

That's with any type of protest not just the ones at UM, which the students have every right to have. If someone violates the rights of students then they should be fired. I like that students have power but how will they use it going forward?

 

[Rusty13]

Ted Bridis Verified account ‏@tbridis

Mizzou journalism faculty voting to remove Click's status, call her acts 'clear violation of 1st Amendment rights' http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/mu-journalism-faculty-voting-to-remove-click-s-courtesy-appointment/article_6e2cedaa-87c7-11e5-ae63-87e5cacea580.html…

 

[JimBoSox9]

FTR, Click is a Communications Dept professor with an honorary cross-appointment to the much-more-prestigious Journalism School faculty. It's the latter that is being voted on to revoke, not her employment (yet).

 

[OCST]

The one school/department where Mizzou can justifiably claim elite status nationwide is its journalism school, so this is a big deal. I agree 100% that any professor remotely tied to the J-school who tried to block a photojournalist from covering a story should be keelhauled.

Can't figure out why the students would want to stifle a story anyway - wouldn't they want the publicity for their cause? These students had righteous demands, but they flunked Protest Tactics 101. Short sighted and stupid.

 

[smastroyin]

Click resigned her honorary appointment, FWIW.

She is supposed to be releasing a statement today.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Click resigned her honorary appointment, FWIW.

She is supposed to be releasing a statement today.

Can't wait. If you are an educator and you intimidate or bully or touch a student then you need to go unless you feel that your life is at risk. I'm more concerned now about the false propaganda running around that campus about the KKK coming to town and pressure to have these classes cancelled. This really sounds like Trey Parker and Matt Stone wrote up this entire scenario. Just ridiculous.

The hunger strike kid who has a dad worth millions is a good touch as well. Again the administration deserved to be fired because of its lax approach to numerous matters but it's hard to feel sympathetic to the protestors when more fun facts are being revealed every day.

 

[ninjacornelius]

The hunger strike kid who has a dad worth millions is a good touch as well.

I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting here, but it sounds an awful lot like you're trying to paint the kid as some kind of trustafarian who oh yeah happened to successfully complete a hunger strike to oppose an administration that, by your own admission, should have been fired. There are plenty of missteps that the protesters have made (which is, of course, natural and expected when you have a weeks-old a grassroots organization made up primarily of 18-22 year olds), so I'm not sure if questioning Jonathan Butler's bona fides is the right way to go.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting here, but it sounds an awful lot like you're trying to paint the kid as some kind of trustafarian who oh yeah happened to successfully complete a hunger strike to oppose an administration that, by your own admission, should have been fired. There are plenty of missteps that the protesters have made (which is, of course, natural and expected when you have a weeks-old a grassroots organization made up primarily of 18-22 year olds), so I'm not sure if questioning Jonathan Butler's bona fides is the right way to go.

I'm implying that everyone has been an asshole throughout this whole thing. I'm sorry but I don't care what color you are but from someone who had to pay his own way through school and grew up with nothing it's difficult for me to feel for the plight of a son who has a dad as a multi millionaire. I'm not painting anyone as anything but 20 million dollars is 20 million dollars.

Under intense media coverage I agree that there has been a few missteps that normally would have been unnoticed. It's up to the students to do something with their power. So far the student body president used it to say the KKK was in town which caused hysteria only to retract it later on. Also some people either quit or were fired. I don't expect firm answers in the next week but it's an interesting social experiment.

Don't get me wrong, I see value in what the students were trying to accomplish. Reasons like this are why we have free assembly in this country. But it could have been handled a lot better on all ends. Lets see how everyone learns from this and hopefully move on without further incident.

 

[JimBoSox9]

The one school/department where Mizzou can justifiably claim elite status nationwide is its journalism school

The agriculture engineering kids be all like WHAAAAAAAAA

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

I'm implying that everyone has been an asshole throughout this whole thing. I'm sorry but I don't care what color you are but from someone who had to pay his own way through school and grew up with nothing it's difficult for me to feel for the plight of a son who has a dad as a multi millionaire. I'm not painting anyone as anything but 20 million dollars is 20 million dollars.

He's an asshole because his dad is rich? Does his family's wealth negate an otherwise worthy cause? Does it invalidate the hunger strike? Was the protest's effectiveness as a whole ill-gotten as a result? What the hell are you babbling about?

The issues regarding free speech pertaining to journalists is a different kettle of fish, and a grave misstep on the part of the protesters, but the impetus behind the protests? Boo, who cares, RICH KIDS.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

He's an asshole because his dad is rich? Does his family's wealth negate an otherwise worthy cause? Does it invalidate the hunger strike? Was the protest's effectiveness as a whole ill-gotten? What the hell are you babbling about?

The issues regarding free speech pertaining to journalists is a different kettle of fish, and a grave misstep on the part of the protesters, but the impetus behind the protests? Boo, who cares, RICH KIDS.

No clearly it doesn't invalidate the hunger strike. The strike worked. People during this whole thing talk about privilege. Well coming from that money means privilege. I think I've agreed it's a worthy cause but when you want to talk about privilege you cannot use the kid who has a trust fund as your rallying point. Anyways I just wonder if people found out earlier how it would have altered the media coverage.

 

[Rusty13]

Erasing earlier link. Something about the author's tone bothered me and make me question his credibility.

 

[soxfan121]

No clearly it doesn't invalidate the hunger strike. The strike worked. People during this whole thing talk about privilege. Well coming from that money means privilege. I think I've agreed it's a worthy cause but when you want to talk about privilege you cannot use the kid who has a trust fund as your rallying point. Anyways I just wonder if people found out earlier how it would have altered the media coverage.

You sound like Tim Wolfe trying to answer questions about systematic oppression on a street corner.

Do you think it is possible that one sort of privilege (i.e. family money) might have informed Butler's understanding of another sort of privilege (i.e. race)? That having seen "how the other half lives" made him more aware of the other, related issues? Do you think any rich person is unable to comprehend the poor? Or any white person cannot possibly understand the "black experience"?

I mean...their main demand is to have people LISTEN. It is the refusal to listen that drives protests, hunger strikes and upheaval. The refusal to take the complaint seriously, to treat the poor or black or female or trans or gay or whatever person like a fellow human being.

I find the idle speculation about whether if "people found out earlier" particularly offensive. It's a pretty common refrain about activists like Butler - that if the people following him only knew he was a rich kid, they wouldn't support his cause". The notion that the Concerned Students wouldn't have supported Butler because he has family money is...so far from the point it's literally not funny.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

You sound like Tim Wolfe trying to answer questions about systematic oppression on a street corner.

Do you think it is possible that one sort of privilege (i.e. family money) might have informed Butler's understanding of another sort of privilege (i.e. race)? That having seen "how the other half lives" made him more aware of the other, related issues? Do you think any rich person is unable to comprehend the poor? Or any white person cannot possibly understand the "black experience"?

I mean...their main demand is to have people LISTEN. It is the refusal to listen that drives protests, hunger strikes and upheaval. The refusal to take the complaint seriously, to treat the poor or black or female or trans or gay or whatever person like a fellow human being.

I find the idle speculation about whether if "people found out earlier" particularly offensive. It's a pretty common refrain about activists like Butler - that if the people following him only knew he was a rich kid, they wouldn't support his cause". The notion that the Concerned Students wouldn't have supported Butler because he has family money is...so far from the point it's literally not funny.

Sure. Maybe someone opened his eyes. Maybe he was mad about his health care. The only one who actually knows is Mr. Butler. I feel that someone who mentions privilege when they come from another type of privilege is very hypocritical. Taking complaints seriously is exactly why Tim Wolfe is no longer at UM. So maybe I'm off base and Butler decided one day that his eyes were open to the horrible racist culture which is ingrained in Missouri. I mean you need not look further than the Michael Brown shooting to see that. I get that. It can actually be a good cause. What I don't like is that someone who is privileged is telling another person to check his own. Different type? Sure. But both have inherent types of privilege.

As for my other point about the media. Why did people only find out that Mr. Butler grew up in a million dollar mansion after the ouster? You can be offended all you want but that doesn't mean the question doesn't have merit. Especially when you bring privilege into the matter. Let's be clear on one thing, 1950 would have supported him no matter what. It doesn't matter if his family has 20 million or 100 million. His cause mirrored what 1950 was working towards. My point wasn't them it was geared towards mainstream media.

 

[soxfan121]

I feel that someone who mentions privilege when they come from another type of privilege is very hypocritical.(1)

What I don't like is that someone who is privileged is telling another person to check his own. Different type? Sure. But both have inherent types of privilege.(2)

So maybe I'm off base and Butler decided one day that his eyes were open to the horrible racist culture which is ingrained in Missouri.(3)

Why did people only find out that Mr. Butler grew up in a million dollar mansion after the ouster? You can be offended all you want but that doesn't mean the question doesn't have merit. Especially when you bring privilege into the matter. (4)

(5)Let's be clear on one thing, 1950 would have supported him no matter what. It doesn't matter if his family has 20 million or 100 million. His cause mirrored what 1950 was working towards. My point wasn't them it was geared towards mainstream media.

I feel like I do not understand how you are defining "privilege", nor why you are conflating two different types of "privilege" to make a point that applies cleanly to neither. Could you clarify? (1&2)

As for (3), it is entirely reasonable to think that Butler (and many others) had their "eyes opened" by recent incidents on campus, as well as conversations with Wolfe, etc.

(4) Well, "people" found out after Wolfe resigned because Concerned Student 150 and Butler ran a first-class operation. The football team played Thursday night and wasn't scheduled to play again until the next Saturday. Butler met with Wolfe, then the football team and Saturday evening the story became national news because of the football strike. Sunday and Monday morning was dedicated to the basics of the story - which was 6 days into Butler's hunger strike. Wolfe resigned around noon, giving "media" about 4 business hours to get on the story. Butler & CS planned this whole thing to apply maximum pressure to UM on Monday morning, forcing a decision from Wolfe and the other higher-ups.

As a former organizer, I have nothing but admiration for how they organized and carried this out. They got national attention and pressure right at the moment when Butler's hunger strike was peaking and forced Wolfe out by making Butler's only demand the ouster. Surgical execution.

Further, where Butler grew up is mostly irrelevant to the story - except for pressure his family could bring to bear (which was less than the football team, for sure), and because it would be more embarrassing for a rich student to die on a hunger strike at a public university. Perhaps that's why Butler was chosen - because his "privileged" upbringing was another factor to make the UM powers-that-be listen to CS's demands. In which case, Butler was used because of his privilege, making it a tool against CS's opponent, making it less "Butler's privilege" and more "another way we can get people to listen."

(5)With all due respect - mainstream media? I don't get what this is, at all.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I feel like I do not understand how you are defining "privilege", nor why you are conflating two different types of "privilege" to make a point that applies cleanly to neither. Could you clarify? (1&2)

As for (3), it is entirely reasonable to think that Butler (and many others) had their "eyes opened" by recent incidents on campus, as well as conversations with Wolfe, etc.

(4) Well, "people" found out after Wolfe resigned because Concerned Student 150 and Butler ran a first-class operation. The football team played Thursday night and wasn't scheduled to play again until the next Saturday. Butler met with Wolfe, then the football team and Saturday evening the story became national news because of the football strike. Sunday and Monday morning was dedicated to the basics of the story - which was 6 days into Butler's hunger strike. Wolfe resigned around noon, giving "media" about 4 business hours to get on the story. Butler & CS planned this whole thing to apply maximum pressure to UM on Monday morning, forcing a decision from Wolfe and the other higher-ups.

As a former organizer, I have nothing but admiration for how they organized and carried this out. They got national attention and pressure right at the moment when Butler's hunger strike was peaking and forced Wolfe out by making Butler's only demand the ouster. Surgical execution.

Further, where Butler grew up is mostly irrelevant to the story - except for pressure his family could bring to bear (which was less than the football team, for sure), and because it would be more embarrassing for a rich student to die on a hunger strike at a public university. Perhaps that's why Butler was chosen - because his "privileged" upbringing was another factor to make the UM powers-that-be listen to CS's demands. In which case, Butler was used because of his privilege, making it a tool against CS's opponent, making it less "Butler's privilege" and more "another way we can get people to listen."

(5)With all due respect - mainstream media? I don't get what this is, at all.

Sure as for 1 &2 one of the demands that were made was for Wolfe to check his white privilege (race) by a student who had another privilege (class/money). Has he ever had his checked in terms of dealing with the poor?

3) I agree it's entirely possible. Just like it's entirely possible that Butlers actions weren't 100% selfless. We don't know what is actions were motivated by. Unless of course you're Mr. Butler.

4) The organization of the rally was executed very well. You'll get zero argument there from me except how they asked for media attention and then shunned it after they got what was necessary. Getting physical with someone doing his job is uncalled for and is generally against a peaceful rally.

5) Its simple. Mainstream media such as CNN Fox etc would give national attention to a socially wronged student any day of the week if it was a public interest story. You drive public interest by getting people on your side. Granted with social justice being in its not hard at all but you need the eyes. Spreading the word that Butler was going to starve himself gives me the impression upon first hearing about it that here is some oppressed student that believes deeply in the cause based on first hand experience (I have zero clue if he's ever been a victim of racism). To find out that he is essentially a trust fund kid clouds some doubt on whether or not he ever was. You said it yourself they kept things air tight and it was well organized.

It seems like some points we agree on but the one thing that we don't is the sincerity of Butler in this matter. Sincerity questions aside the students got what they wanted in this and now the aftermath will be the only result that matters.

3 faculty members resigned and one professor who participated in the protest is now probably never getting another teaching job. Hopefully they can start actually teaching classes again and this will all be a distant memory soon.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

I think you forgot to add that you hope that the racist activity on the campus stops