Guys, I’m gonna go down and try to make the team at receiver. Anyone know where I can get those sticky gloves?
Training Camp News and Notes
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
You really could put together a pretty awesome jersey collection of guys who came to camp with the Patriots and never actually played with them.
Holt, Lynch, Wayne, Decker, Tebow off the top of my head. And I'm sure I'm missing a bunch.
Holt, Lynch, Wayne, Decker, Tebow off the top of my head. And I'm sure I'm missing a bunch.
It seems obvious to me that a team in seemingly dire straits at WR would at least kick the tires on Dez. That they have not thus far tells us that Bill thinks he’s totally done, not the kind of player who would thrive in this offense, possibly a disruptive sort or some combo of those options.
No matter, it’s not as if Dez just came available. While I’d like to see them take a look at Bryant, I have trouble believing that whatever has caused them to stay away thus far will suddenly change.
No matter, it’s not as if Dez just came available. While I’d like to see them take a look at Bryant, I have trouble believing that whatever has caused them to stay away thus far will suddenly change.
Seems like the general consensus is that Dez runs routes like there are bees chasing him. That’s a deal-breaker in the Pats offensive scheme.
When the bubble bursts for hundreds of NFL hopefuls on Sept 1st perhaps a decent WR becomes available.Or we may find out if Giselle's SB 46 observaton holds true.
Recap —
1. Now many months ago, it became apparent that Dez is a shell. That was not some stat or Radiohead making the claim. Assistant coaches on the Cowboys put that out there to make the parting more palatable. Nobody contradicted them.
2. Not a shell is the penchant for histrionics. That was made clear when Dez unloaded on Sean Lee and Company. As night follows day, it is certain that the sideline bullshit will continue. What was cute and excused — “oh, Dez is just a competitive sum’bitch” — is no longer so because the ability level is not what it was.
3. Exacerbating this has been Dez’ offseason approach. He turned down a reported 3yr/$21 MM from the Ravens because he wants a one-year “make good.” That suggests he has an exaggerated sense of his own capabilities, but fine. When the Browns reportedly offered 1 year, at less than $5 MM, that apparently wasn’t enough. That may suggest he is delusional.
But delusional or not, one thing is certain: where ever he catches on, if he he catches on, Dez is going to go fucking bezerk on the sideline in any and every game in which he is not targeted plenty. Which can be a big problem if he cannot separate.
So the notion of him catching on with a B.B. team, or a Tom Coughlin team (See the Jags injuries) is pretty far fetched.
1. Now many months ago, it became apparent that Dez is a shell. That was not some stat or Radiohead making the claim. Assistant coaches on the Cowboys put that out there to make the parting more palatable. Nobody contradicted them.
2. Not a shell is the penchant for histrionics. That was made clear when Dez unloaded on Sean Lee and Company. As night follows day, it is certain that the sideline bullshit will continue. What was cute and excused — “oh, Dez is just a competitive sum’bitch” — is no longer so because the ability level is not what it was.
3. Exacerbating this has been Dez’ offseason approach. He turned down a reported 3yr/$21 MM from the Ravens because he wants a one-year “make good.” That suggests he has an exaggerated sense of his own capabilities, but fine. When the Browns reportedly offered 1 year, at less than $5 MM, that apparently wasn’t enough. That may suggest he is delusional.
But delusional or not, one thing is certain: where ever he catches on, if he he catches on, Dez is going to go fucking bezerk on the sideline in any and every game in which he is not targeted plenty. Which can be a big problem if he cannot separate.
So the notion of him catching on with a B.B. team, or a Tom Coughlin team (See the Jags injuries) is pretty far fetched.
So no Dez?
We're down to Marciano reprising Mark Wahlberg's role of local kid makes good/ Vince Papale.
Good luck Rocky!
We're down to Marciano reprising Mark Wahlberg's role of local kid makes good/ Vince Papale.
Good luck Rocky!
Thanks, man. I’m making a Kenny Power’s style promo tape. Anyone got some orange cones and a samurai sword?
Is the issue really back end depth or the lack of a WR1? Seems like most teams don’t have 2-3 really good WRs, and with our versatile backs and Gronk I think Brady has about as many weapons as most. Obviously, it’d be nice to have Simon-Schuster, Brown and Bell or Diggs and Thielen, but we’re not in awful shape.
Football is funny in how fast guys, particularly the skill position guys, can just lose it. Bryant went from a top-10 or so receiver a few years ago to washed. He didn’t just lose a step; he’s gone from the league.
Dez’s attitude has to be the main factor here though. Even if people thought he was washed, someone would probably kick the tires on him if he was a good teammate and you knew he would work hard. The fact that Dallas has no interest in him with their current depth at WR tells you all you need to know.
Which makes the Ravens’ alleged offer that much weirder. Nobody else wants to touch Dez with a 10 foot pole and Ravens offer 3/23?
Does not compute.
Lot of Burkhead lining up out wide? Had a couple nice games like that last year.
Hogan, Dorsett, Patterson, Burkhead? Jules when he returns
I do worry about the handsomeness quotient after losing Decker though
Hogan, Dorsett, Patterson, Burkhead? Jules when he returns
I do worry about the handsomeness quotient after losing Decker though
Think that’s weird?
They signed Ryan Grant to a 4 yr, $29 contract, then voided the deal on the medicals after Crabtree shook lose. Not long after, Grant signed for 1 year and $5 with the Colts.
I don’t recall how much of the Grant contract or Dez offer were guaranteed.
The single wing is back---fewer WR and more TE needed. Fits the current roster well.
To me it's the back end; Gronk and Edelman are both "WR1s" in terms of production, albeit with Edelman suspended. But if I'm playing the Pats, I'm putting my best cover guy on one of Edelman or Gronk, doubling the other, rushing four, and daring them to beat me outside the numbers and/or over the top with Hogan, Dorsett, Patterson, Hollister, or the RBs.
In general I think WR1s are overrated and receiver depth underrated. Almost every team who pays a true WR1 winds up with depth problems, including the Pats in 2009 when they still had Moss and Welker but Sam Freaking Aiken was the third WR.
It will never stop being funny how much people overrate the value of wide receivers, especially here of all places. The WR1--who is out for the first four games--was a quarterback in college. This team won its first three super bowls with guys that nobody ever heard of, and the last two wins included that college quarterback and a bunch of other similar unknowns (Chris Hogan--undrafted, Danny Amendola--undrafted).
Panic if you think that they have not addressed the pass rush. Panic if you aren't sold that they solved the gaping hole of linebacker speed or aren't sure about the cornerback situation. I can buy all of that. But I'm not at all worried about the WR position. Tom has done plenty with less.
Panic if you think that they have not addressed the pass rush. Panic if you aren't sold that they solved the gaping hole of linebacker speed or aren't sure about the cornerback situation. I can buy all of that. But I'm not at all worried about the WR position. Tom has done plenty with less.
As long as Gronk is healthy, the WR situation isn’t that dire. End of the day, you need to have a guy that can create mismatches and the need to double team. Gronk obviously does both. If/when he goes down, things get a lot harder. Last year, Cooks was capable of providing big plays with Gronk out. This year is a big question mark in the passing game if Gronk goes down for a stretch. That Miami game last year was UGLY.
The Miami game was one of the major reasons they moved on from Cooks IMO (with the other factors being the $ he was going to make, and the 1st rounder they got in return).
I think the Jax AFCCG would be a counterpoint to the Miami game though. They don’t win that without the plays he made. End of the day, getting a 1st rounder, not wanting to pay market rate deal, and maybe believing Dorsett can replicate 70% of the production probably drove the decision.
It will definitely be interesting to see how this group evolves over next couple of years. Edelman and Hogan don’t have much left and Dorsett/Patterson could be short-timers for all we know.
The key to the AFCCG being that Gronk played. I think the idea when they traded for Cooks was that with Gronk and Edelman in the middle of the field, he'd get a ton of 1 on 1 opportunities. Obviously they never had a chance to find out.
While the WR cupboard is basically completely bare when looking at the future, I'm not all that concerned about 2018. But clearly it is the position with the least "future" talent maybe on the whole team, aside from QB.
Gronk didn't play the second half, when almost all the offensive production happened.
I wonder if Michael Floyd will become available on September 3. I don't think he's going to stick with the Saints.
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I like to think I follow the Pats fairly closely but I have no idea who this person is. Is this the “Memorial Tiguan Underwood” roared spot?
But I don't see any way the Pats could make a monster contract work in their current cap situation. From a Miguel article on the cap situation last week:
Question: After Theaker’s injury settlement and Britt’s release, how much dead money do the Patriots now have?
Answer: Just under five million — $4,983,135.
And that was before the Mason contract and Decker retiring. Mason was going to make $1.907 million this season, and with $23.5M reportedly guaranteed, I don't see how his cap hit could be anything less than $4.7M, so that would eat into the $4,983,135 by about $3.8M which only leave about $1.2M at most.
There are certainly some monies likely to be added back when cuts happen on Saturday, but they also will have to go from a tally that only includes the Top-51 earners to one that includes everyone on the 53, plus any IR, PS and dead money.
Dead money ≠ cap space. I was under the impression their actual space was more like $10 mil pre-Mason deal with some cuts that could hypothetically bump that number up (not sure how pre/post-June 1 fits in for a guy like Allen).
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I believe Mason's deal kicks in next year so his contract has no bearing on this year's cap. Dwayne Allen has $5 million in non-guaranteed money so if he's cut then $5 million in cap space will be created.
New book has some "insider" info regarding Pats.
1. At one point, Tom Brady wouldn’t have minded being released by Patriots
2. Robert Kraft calls Boston a village
3. Rob Gronkowski is sick of atmosphere surrounding the Patriots
Ringer article about the book, which is a look at NFL owners.
1. At one point, Tom Brady wouldn’t have minded being released by Patriots
2. Robert Kraft calls Boston a village
3. Rob Gronkowski is sick of atmosphere surrounding the Patriots
Ringer article about the book, which is a look at NFL owners.
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Agreed. Dead money eats into cap space. What I was saying is that dead money, like PS and IR, will eat into the space remaining, but does not now. During the off-season, only the top-51 cap hits count.
I just realized I quoted the wrong section of Miguel's article.
"The net effect of Theaker’s injury settlement and Britt’s release on the Patriots salary cap space number is an increase of $548,125 to $8,158,727."
But my point about that amount being before Mason's extension, before Decker being cut, and before the change in counting from top-51 to all, still remains.
From same article:
Question: What is your current Patriots 2018 salary cap space number?
Answer — League cap: $177,200,000
Prior year carryover: $3,012,602
Adjustment: $17,187
Patriots adjusted cap: $180,229,789
2018 cap commitment: $172,071,062 with 90 signed players. The Patriots have placed Darren Andrews and Cody Hollister on the Non-Football Injury (NFI) list.
2018 CAP SPACE: $8,158,727
"The net effect of Theaker’s injury settlement and Britt’s release on the Patriots salary cap space number is an increase of $548,125 to $8,158,727."
But my point about that amount being before Mason's extension, before Decker being cut, and before the change in counting from top-51 to all, still remains.
From same article:
Question: What is your current Patriots 2018 salary cap space number?
Answer — League cap: $177,200,000
Prior year carryover: $3,012,602
Adjustment: $17,187
Patriots adjusted cap: $180,229,789
2018 cap commitment: $172,071,062 with 90 signed players. The Patriots have placed Darren Andrews and Cody Hollister on the Non-Football Injury (NFI) list.
2018 CAP SPACE: $8,158,727
As mentioned above, releasing Allen would free up $5M. Gillislee would be another $2.2M. I believe McCourty #2 would be an additional $3M. So that's $10.2M right there without doing any contract re-structuring.
I highly doubt the Raiders would trade Mack to the Patriots or that the Pats would be interested in him at his current demands but I think they could make it work should they have the opportunity/desire.
Mack is 27 and smack dab in the middle of his prime. I personally would go all out trying to get him if there were even a sliver of hope. He's such an amazing talent.
