Tony Mazz: The Grass Is Always Browner

Van Everyman

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This is a thread I've started and stopped about a hundred times over the years.  Like most posters, I've become accustomed to Boston sportswriters' negativity.  Surely, it was a function of a lot of things, but none more than how painfully the Red Sox lost for 86 years until the fairytale of 2004.  

Even as Boston has become titletown in the last decade-plus, negativity among the media has not only endured ... but taken on new dimensions. A Dan Shaughnessy has had to up his game ... merely being a troll isn't enough, so he's also patented the "Everything is so great we can't possibly lose" variety of trolling his readers, ensuring he is either A) right or B) so obviously wrong he reinforces the validity of his multi-decade trolldom. And of course, there are a number of junior league grumps, including the likes of Callahan, Felger, etc.

Tony Massarotti, tho, is another breed.  A decent writer in his day, Tony has fashioned himself a different variety of negativity since he became a radio personality/shouter. 

Exhibit A: The Mark Texeira non-signing. I probably needn't go into how utterly stubborn Mazz was about this ... not only killing Henry et al for "letting him go to the Yankees" (which implies we had a choice in the matter), but continuing to beat the drum about this long after it became patently obvious that, one World Series title notwithstanding, this was a very, very bad deal.

Exhibit B: Letting VMart leave.  I don't listen to sports radio much but remember coming back to MA for Thanksgiving in 2010 and hearing a particularly rancid rant from Tony the day Wiktor signed with Detroit.  The world had officially ended, notwithstanding the fact that the Red Sox literally had nowhere to play him with David Ortiz at DH and Youk at 1st (that would change a few weeks or so later ... tho I suspect Mazz's take on this did not). 

Exhibit C: Today's column.  To me this is Tony's true brand, the guy who always finds something horrible to complain about, no matter how good things or embarrassing the riches are. 

Two weeks after a 41-14 thumping at the hands of the Kansas City Chiefs, the Patriots are now 4-2. Cincinnati was dismembered. Buffalo was beaten. Now New England prepares for a Thursday night meeting with the New York Jets, and all is well at Patriot Place.
Or is it?

For all of the good that took place on the field in Buffalo over the weekend, there were more than a few missteps, too. On more than one occasion, the Patriots played the part of Plaxico Burress and tried to shoot themselves in the lower body. Like Plaxico, they escaped with relatively minimal damage, though that does not negate the fact that mistakes were made.

Five plays that bugged me:
http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/massarotti/2014/10/venturning_into_five-down_terr.html

He then goes on to complain that while the Patriots may be playing well ... it's not as well as you think!  Because they made mistakes! FIVE of them in fact.

I suppose there's an element of adaption here ... when you've won 8 titles in 13 years and had three or four competitive Boston-based teams in almost all those years, you have to find something to complain about.  The lack of utter perfection would appear to be it for Tony. But christ.
 

BrotherMouzone

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Pound for pound the laziest member of the Boston sports media. Felger's lapdog for four hours a day, then packages those hot takes into a Boston.com column no one reads.
 

rodderick

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This is a guy who on several occasions prefaces arguments with "I actually looked this up, Mike!", as if that's going the extra mile in his profession. Just the epitome of laziness. It's actually funny that both those moves you cited (Victor and Teixeira) both happened 4-5 years ago, and he still can't let go of them, no matter how minor they look in the grand scheme of things. It's like he stopped trying as a journalist at that time and can't even find new things to harp on, so he has to keep going back to the same tired arguments.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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rodderick said:
This is a guy who on several occasions prefaces arguments with "I actually looked this up, Mike!", as if that's going the extra mile in his profession. Just the epitome of laziness. It's actually funny that both those moves you cited (Victor and Teixeira) both happened 4-5 years ago, and he still can't let go of them, no matter how minor they look in the grand scheme of things. It's like he stopped trying as a journalist at that time and can't even find new things to harp on, so he has to keep going back to the same tired arguments.
 
I think it's possible he hasn't actually watched any games at all since then.  He probably couldn't pick Xander Bogaerts or Mookie Betts out of a lineup if you gave him their uniform numbers.
 

rodderick

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
I think it's possible he hasn't actually watched any games at all since then.  He probably couldn't pick Xander Bogaerts or Mookie Betts out of a lineup if you gave him their uniform numbers.
 
That's the impression I get as well. He'll jump on any chance of criticizing the Red Sox front office, but he doesn't seem to comprehend what is actually going on.
 

FelixMantilla

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Gotta give Tony Duh Moron some credit. He had to actually work for the Herald, now he does squat and probably makes 10x the money.
 

Haunted

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I love a good pile-on, so here's my addition!
 
His voice drives me crazy.  Not that it's higher-pitched than the stereotypical pleasing baritone found in most radio talkers.  When he was on WEEI he either didn't do this or I didn't notice, but not long after starting with Felger I noticed that he talks like all his stomach and chest muscles are tight.  It's something taught to singers - sing with your gut, not your throat - but sounds forced when someone talks like that.  It's like they're yelling when they're not yelling.  The result is that everything he says is in this sort of soft shout.  I find it awful to listen to.
 
His forced negativity is certainly doesn't help, but I could still be amused and entertained by that if IT DIDN'T SOUND LIKE EVERYTHING HE SAID WAS SO DESPERATELY IMPORTANT.
 

ifmanis5

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
You're absolutely right, Mike!
Great, thanks, now his voice is in my head.
 
And lemme tell ya sumthin' .... this thread, that you think is so great... it's not so great!
 

Haunted

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ifmanis5 said:
Great, thanks, now his voice is in my head.
 
And lemme tell ya sumthin'  ... ok?.... this thread, that you think is so great... it's not so great! ok?
don't forget that annoying verbal crutch.  Ok?
 

TSC

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Haunted said:
I love a good pile-on, so here's my addition!
 
His voice drives me crazy.  Not that it's higher-pitched than the stereotypical pleasing baritone found in most radio talkers.  When he was on WEEI he either didn't do this or I didn't notice, but not long after starting with Felger I noticed that he talks like all his stomach and chest muscles are tight.  It's something taught to singers - sing with your gut, not your throat - but sounds forced when someone talks like that.  It's like they're yelling when they're not yelling.  The result is that everything he says is in this sort of soft shout.  I find it awful to listen to.
 
His forced negativity is certainly doesn't help, but I could still be amused and entertained by that if IT DIDN'T SOUND LIKE EVERYTHING HE SAID WAS SO DESPERATELY IMPORTANT.
 
Yup, it constantly sounds like everything he's saying IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE AND MUST BE YELLED LOUD NOISES.
 
I can't listen to him anymore because the cadence, tone, and inflection of his voice is so goddamned annoying.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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To be fair, Mazz didn't say this last night, but Felger did on his Comcast show. The Pats looked pretty good on Sunday, not great, but good. All last week Felger (and Mazz) said that they Pats have to beat the Bills in order for the Cincinnati game to mean "anything". They were sorta right, I guess. Had the Pats lost to Buffalo, the Bengals game may have been seen as an anomaly and the realization that New England wasn't quite that good and that this was a down may have set in.
 
Fast forward to last night and Felger is claiming that the win on Sunday was "meaningless" because they beat the Bills.
 
What angers me about the media is the way that they move the target to fit their theory that they came up with a few weeks ago -- and Mazz does this all the time (see Teixeira, Mark vs. Boston Red Sox). The Pats do what you said they needed to do (emphasis mine) and they go to Buffalo and beat the Bills. But it wasn't good enough? They won by more than two touchdowns and they looked better in the second half after a sluggish first half. If the Pats lost on Sunday, they'd be killed but since they won, they still need to be killed only there's no way of doing so unless you change the conversation.
 
I get what sports talk radio is, it's a constant troll, but the way that these guys do their business is crappy and lazy. It's all based on the nebulous style points; "The Pats didn't look right", "There was something missing", "This wasn't Patriots football." It's a heaping helping of negativity on praiseworthy actions. Again, there are times when this is okay. But not every, single time.
 

Corsi

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TheShynessClinic said:
 
Yup, it constantly sounds like everything he's saying IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE AND MUST BE YELLED LOUD NOISES.
 
I can't listen to him anymore because the cadence, tone, and inflection of his voice is so goddamned annoying.
 
Count how many times he says "yeah, look..." or "look, Mike..." leading into one of his hot takes.  It's maddening.
 
edit: Literally did it five seconds after I submitted this.
 

Corsi

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Mazz just keeps moving the goal posts.  First Cincinnati was one of the best in the AFC, then we laid waste to them and suddenly there were "not ready for primetime."  Then Mazz tells us that "Buffalo is going to be more difficult than people think" and we blow the doors off of them and now we're at "look, let's wait until Week 8 and 9 until we judge this team.  They've played no one of significance so far."
 
edit: or what JMOH said more eloquently.
 

Phenom

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I'd like to add two Mazzisms to our growing list:
 
Prefaces several hot takes per day with: "Honestly, Mike! ..."
 
Closes several hot takes per day with: "If you want to know the truth."
 
For example:
 
"Honestly, Mike! ... I think the Patriots SUCKED this week if you want to know the truth." 
 

Cabin Mirror

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Phenom said:
I'd like to add two Mazzisms to our growing list:
 
Prefaces several hot takes per day with: "Honestly, Mike! ..."
 
Closes several hot takes per day with: "If you want to know the truth."
 
For example:
 
"Honestly, Mike! ... I think the Patriots SUCKED this week if you want to know the truth." 
 
His schtick about Brady and his contract is what bothers me the most. I feel like he is actually attempting to generate friction between Brady and BB/Kraft which is just silly obviously.
 
I might be the only one, but I will say that his "Boston guy" voice impressions crack me up every time.
 

Darnell's Son

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Cabin Mirror said:
 
His schtick about Brady and his contract is what bothers me the most. I feel like he is actually attempting to generate friction between Brady and BB/Kraft which is just silly obviously.
 
I might be the only one, but I will say that his "Boston guy" voice impressions crack me up every time.
His Boston guy voice is the worst thing he does. It's so overused and dumb.
 

soxfan121

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I appreciate the effort being made to paint the Patriots as "failures" because they haven't won a Super Bowl. "This town measures success with championships, not "being in the mix"". 
 
Yeah, two of the last three Red Sox seasons prove that all that matters is winning championships. Being competitive every year is for LOSERS.
 

Van Everyman

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I would argue that during his first Boston.com stint Mazz was a pretty good columnist. Still brown in his shade of discontent but not outright miserable. And often worthy of reading. He's actually not very interesting to read now.

What changed?

Radio. All the ticks cited here (I LOL'd at "I actually looked this up" because I don't listen to radio and I remembered him saying that) are not only accurate but in service of a series of arguments that don't really need to be started and positions that don't need to be taken. It's a pure content play.

More relevant to the OP, he now sees it as his duty to complain. It's not enough to explore the ups and downs of titletown and what makes each twist and turn interesting or unique. Instead he has to say something that is differentiated from all the other noise in the Boston media. Which, rather ironically, results in just more of the same.

Nobody wants guys like him to turn into Peter King where every feature has this gauzy sense of optimism and hope. But still.

It's a waste of talent.
 

mpx42

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Corsi said:
Mazz just keeps moving the goal posts.  First Cincinnati was one of the best in the AFC, then we laid waste to them and suddenly there were "not ready for primetime."  Then Mazz tells us that "Buffalo is going to be more difficult than people think" and we blow the doors off of them and now we're at "look, let's wait until Week 8 and 9 until we judge this team.  They've played no one of significance so far."
 
edit: or what JMOH said more eloquently.
 
If the Patriots have beaten a team, that team is no longer a good team. People have been using this line of thinking for years.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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mpx42 said:
 
If the Patriots have beaten a team, that team is no longer a good team. People have been using this line of thinking for years.
 
It's the root of "the Patriots make the playoffs every year because they beat up on a weak division".
 

The Napkin

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soxfan121 said:
I appreciate the effort being made to paint the Patriots as "failures" because they haven't won a Super Bowl. "This town measures success with championships, not "being in the mix"". 
 
Yeah, two of the last three Red Sox seasons prove that all that matters is winning championships. Being competitive every year is for LOSERS.
 
I actually listened a bit on the way home and the thing is he's right with what he was saying. People killed the Colts/Manning for getting to AFC championships and losing and never winning a SB. Same with the Jets. They were mercilessly mocked for puffing their shirts about back to back AFCCG. Andy Reid and all those NFCCG appearances? LOSER!
 
But now it's the Pats who consistently get to championship games but can't win one and that's somehow okay with the fanbase because they're competitive every year.
 
So which is it?
 

Quiddity

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The Napkin said:
 
I actually listened a bit on the way home and the thing is he's right with what he was saying. People killed the Colts/Manning for getting to AFC championships and losing and never winning a SB. Same with the Jets. They were mercilessly mocked for puffing their shirts about back to back AFCCG. Andy Reid and all those NFCCG appearances? LOSER!
 
But now it's the Pats who consistently get to championship games but can't win one and that's somehow okay with the fanbase because they're competitive every year.
 
So which is it?
 
Yet when the Jets were in those 2 AFC Championship games, Felger proclaimed that that the Jets had surpassed the Pats and shown their superiority in team building. The Jets never actually won the Super Bowl. They didn't even get to the Super Bowl. Yet Felger declared all of the Patriots fandom (well those that didn't agree with him on his Jets love) idiots and that the Jet's method of team building had been proven to be superior to the Pats.
 
Think of all the criticism of the Pats in comparison to Manning and his Broncos and how superior the Broncos have been in team building than the Pats (when the net result since Manning arrived there is exactly the same as the Pats). Exactly how many championships have they won? Oh yes, zero.
 
 
Mazz is quite the disappointment. I have a hard time thinking of a member of the Boston media who is worse than him. Which is a shame because in his Big Show days he was one of my favorites. I remember how disappointed I was when he left the Big Show to join Eddie Andleman (which thankfully didn't last that long). He provides nothing of value to the show. Now that Mark Bertrand has fully been tainted by Felger and Mazz, and is as negative as they are (for example, he has declared the Pats championship window closed, a take that even Felger and Mazz won't do) what role does Mazz fulfill? He isn't really an expert of even baseball anymore. Last week there was a call about a big play in one of the MLB playoff games. Mazz admitted on the air that he hadn't even seen the play. And this is supposed to be the show's baseball expert?
 
Mazz lucked out into being in the right place at the right time. He wasn't TSH's first choice for Felger's partner, but lucked out that WEEI tied up Merloni and won't be going anywhere until the ratings tank enough to justify it. Which is a damn shame. As much as the show frustrates me, Felger & Mazz tends to be an entertaining show. But it is largely Felger driving that. You get rid of Mazz and replace him with anyone else and the show doesn't lose anything. Heck, it improves.
 
 
Now, all that said, Mazz has not been that bad this week, at least in comparison to the extremist view points being taken by Felger and Bertrand.
 

grimshaw

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I remember listening to EEI during the trade deadline and him breaking the Urbina trade in 2001.  That was a long time ago and maybe the last time he was useful.
Though back then he was a voice of reason (damning with faint praise) on the station.  Even on the beat  in the early 2000's I'd argue the Projo and Globe generally had journalists with better sources.
 
The fact that he's consciously and purposefully douchey and 180 degrees different now that he's no longer required to actually provide factual statements has made him unlistenable to me for the past 5+ years.  
 
Since switching to Direct TV I am blissfully unaware of his presence due to not having CSNNE
 

Ralphwiggum

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The Napkin said:
 
I actually listened a bit on the way home and the thing is he's right with what he was saying. People killed the Colts/Manning for getting to AFC championships and losing and never winning a SB. Same with the Jets. They were mercilessly mocked for puffing their shirts about back to back AFCCG. Andy Reid and all those NFCCG appearances? LOSER!
 
But now it's the Pats who consistently get to championship games but can't win one and that's somehow okay with the fanbase because they're competitive every year.
 
So which is it?
 
There is a difference between what fan bases may use as bragging rights, and objective analysis of what constitutes a "successful" season.  The Pats were better than Manning and the Colts in 2003 and 2004, but the Colts didn't suck.  Those were good Colt teams, and they finally did get over the hump against the Pats in 2006, but in those early years the Pats certainly had bragging rights.  The Eagles under Reid were objectively very good, just not as good as the Pats were, plus the Pats beat them in the Super Bowl.  The Jets are bit different because they were fairly mediocre in those two season and just caught fire in the playoffs.  But generally speaking if you are talking about the other franchises who have had sustained success at the same time as the Pats (Colts, Steelers, Ravens maybe, Eagles) those are all good to great teams, it is just that none of them can match the sustained success of the Pats over that time period.  Anyone who claims that those teams "suck" is a moron. 
 
Anyone who says you measure success by Lombardi's is an idiot.  It is a ridiculous standard and anyone who demands a Lombardi or the season is lost should find something else to do with their time.  Despite the fact that they have not won since 2004, their record over the last decade is pretty tough to match, and they have come within a play of winning again twice.  If the standard is they have failed if they don't win a Lombardi, that's as fucking stupid as anyone who thought the Colts sucked when Manning was there.  Actually more stupid.
 
But none of this has anything to do with Tony Mazz being a moron.  When Mazz does it, what he is doing is giving himself the right to complain and be negative about anything Patriots related up to the time when they finally win again (if that ever happens).  And as Quiddity notes, he does not hold other franchises to the same standard.  It has nothing to do with double standards or whatever, and everything to do with him being able to trot out the same, lazy "takes" day after day after day, regardless of what is actually happening on the field.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I was thinking about this last night and I think that there are two problems with Tony Mazz, and both really aren't his fault. BUT they add to his idiocy.
 
1. He has to deal with Felger every single day. Mike Felger seems like a hard worker who has interesting takes on the sports world around him. Most of his colleagues, including Tony Mazz, don't. Felger will defend those takes to the death and it takes a lot for him to admit that he's wrong -- he'll do it, but again, it takes a lot of work. Mazz has to deal with this guy every single day for four hours, debating and arguing about stuff. I think that at one point during the first two years Mazz just said, "Screw it. I'm going to agree with him most of the time and argue with him about a small percentage of stuff."
 
You can tell when Mazz is arguing about something that he doesn't really believe in because he half-asses his logic, before ultimately agreeing to whatever Felger says. There are times when you can even hear it in Felger's voice that he can't believe that Mazz is taking another side of a debate and he methodically goes through Mazz' logic before Mazz agrees that he has no idea what he's talking about. BTW, Bertrand has succumbed to this too. Though it took him longer to do so. He rarely argues with Felger anymore and I think it's because Felger is relentless and exhausting. Now, that says more about Mazz and Bertrand than it does Felger, but I can kinda see Mazz' POV on this.
 
On every radio show there is a dominant. Felger is the dominant and the rest fall in line.
 
2. There are 342 regular-season games played in Boston during the year. Multiply that by however many teams there are in the four majors (divide by two, because each team has to play each other) and the end result is a lot of fucking games. The thing about sports is that most of these games are boring and inconsequential. Of that 342 games, I'd say at least maybe 40 or so of those regular season games are actually worth talking about (16 for NFL, 5-10 for baseball, basketball and hockey each). Maybe it's a bit more, bit not much. So of those games, 10 - 20% of the games are worth talking about. There are also a few other events that happen over the course of a season (trades, signings, firings, etc.), but those don't happen as often.
 
The rest of the sports talk time is speculation. What's going on in the locker room? What's the next game going to be like? Who should be benched? Who should start? Who is going to win? Why?
 
Speculation is boring, because they have a little better idea as what's going to happen as we do. But not much. So they spend the rest of their time speculating and wondering what's going to happen. And that's boring and cheap. But it's necessary because there's not really THAT much to talk about. Oh yeah, there are two 24-hour sports radio stations in town and two 24-hour TV stations in town, plus the national sports channel and the channels devoted solely to particular sports. Everyone needs to have a different hotsportztake or they got lost. And Mazz speculates and hotsportztakes with the best of them.
 
Unfortunately, it's not good to listen to. Honestly, Mazz is really no better or no worse than anyone else in the sports scene. His deal is that he's a professional pessimist, though he's still not as bad as Shaughnessy.
 

Vandalman

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Mazz tends to cower very quickly if someone calls him out. He'll minimize his point with another favorite catchphrase, "That's all I'm saying." 
 
Caller: Signing Teixeira would have been a monumental waste of money.
 
Mazz: He won a ring with the Yankees and the Red Sox should have explored the possibility of signing him. They should have kicked the tires. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING!
 
 
Don't play the "That's all I'm saying" drinking game while listening to him. You'll be plastered in no time.
 

soxfan121

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The Napkin said:
 
I actually listened a bit on the way home and the thing is he's right with what he was saying. People killed the Colts/Manning for getting to AFC championships and losing and never winning a SB. Same with the Jets. They were mercilessly mocked for puffing their shirts about back to back AFCCG. Andy Reid and all those NFCCG appearances? LOSER!
 
But now it's the Pats who consistently get to championship games but can't win one and that's somehow okay with the fanbase because they're competitive every year.
 
So which is it?
 
I'm not sure - are we talking about people who think about arguments logically or chest-beating troglodytes? Different answers for different audiences. (or, what Ralphwiggum said)
 
However, I said I "appreciate the effort". Because I listen frequently, I am pointing out the hypocrisy in their standard arguments; that the Pats are "losers" for being competitive every year and the Red Sox are "losers" for finishing last twice in three seasons (sandwiched around a WS title). 
 
Point being - this hotsportztake is well-manufactured audience call-bait. 
 
This show is highly-rated and talked-about because of the attention Felger puts into crafting these HST into call-bait. 
 
I mean, Felger says that "Conference Championship = successful season" so often that this iteration of the argument is hard to pull off...yet, they've done it. Credit where credit is due...
 

kajana141

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Mazz starts every point with a caveat. Its either:
 
I know its a small sample size but..
I'm not saying..
Don't get me wrong wrong but..
I don't think he should be traded but..
 
Obviously he learned how to cover his butt while being on the big show.
 
The most unethical thing I've ever heard Mazz say was a few years ago when Tito was still managing the sox. Tito was running through everybody trying to find a 4th starter during the summer. I think one of the starters went down with an injury so Tito was just trying to bridge the gap. Mazz crucified Tito everyday because he didn't put Wakefield in that spot.  At that point, Wakefield was either hit or miss when he pitched. Listening to Mazz you would have thought Wakefield was a vintage 2000 Pedro and he was almost calling for Tito's dismissal over this.
 
It turns out that Mazz was writing or just completed a book with Wakefield and that's the reason he was going after Tito because he wanted more Wakefeild exposure to keep his book relevant.
 
Never believed anything that came out of Mazz's mouth after that. Just a complete disgrace of a once decent journalist.
 

ifmanis5

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RedOctober3829 said:
Tony Mazz: "The Jets passed the Patriots, but then the Patriots passed them back."
 
At what point did the Jets EVER pass them by?
That time when the Jets won the division and the Pats didn't even make the playoffs. Okay!?
 

mcpickl

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Phenom said:
I'd like to add two Mazzisms to our growing list:
 
Prefaces several hot takes per day with: "Honestly, Mike! ..."
 
Closes several hot takes per day with: "If you want to know the truth."
 
For example:
 
"Honestly, Mike! ... I think the Patriots SUCKED this week if you want to know the truth." 
My least favorite is when Felger tees him up with a prepared question, Mazz gives a rambling ten second answer then says,
 
And when I say that, what I mean is...
 
then repeats his answer with different wording.
 
Good grief. The same guys who don't want people to say how you doing as a preamble because it wastes time.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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kajana141 said:
The most unethical thing I've ever heard Mazz say was a few years ago when Tito was still managing the sox. Tito was running through everybody trying to find a 4th starter during the summer. I think one of the starters went down with an injury so Tito was just trying to bridge the gap. Mazz crucified Tito everyday because he didn't put Wakefield in that spot.  At that point, Wakefield was either hit or miss when he pitched. Listening to Mazz you would have thought Wakefield was a vintage 2000 Pedro and he was almost calling for Tito's dismissal over this.
 
It turns out that Mazz was writing or just completed a book with Wakefield and that's the reason he was going after Tito because he wanted more Wakefeild exposure to keep his book relevant.
 
Never believed anything that came out of Mazz's mouth after that. Just a complete disgrace of a once decent journalist.
 
Even more unethical was the time when Schilling was posting on SoSH and wanted things to stay in-house here, and Mazz was so bent out of shape about it he suggested that the media shouldn't help promote Schilling's charitable causes.