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To all who are Boston sports fans. Can you go to the grave with this success or do you want more?

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by jaytftwofive, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. Norm Siebern

    Norm Siebern Member SoSH Member

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    Condolences. I wish you peace.
     
  2. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The answer is yes.
     
  3. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    Definitely want at least 2 more Celtics rings, and at least 1 more Patriots, then I can be happy.
     
  4. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Thinking about this some more, I think the only thing that could satisfy me is all 4 teams holding titles at the same time.
     
  5. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The Tiger Slam?
     
  6. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    That what I was thinking as I rephrased from "winning a championship in the same year"
     
  7. Ferm Sheller

    Ferm Sheller Member SoSH Member

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    Not exactly. In the immediate aftermath of having had sex, I always think “that was awesome. I never need to have sex again.”

    But then an hour goes by and I’m jonesing for more sex.
     
  8. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    I don't know how to answer this question.

    I was pretty bummed when the Patriots lost the Super Bowl last year and couldn't sleep well after the Sox lost game 3 in Dodger Stadium. I grew up in Connecticut where you were always on the front lines of Red Sox and Yankees and I remember vividly the Yankees fans pouring it on after game 7 in 1975 on the school bus, and 1978 was no fun. 1986 was rotten and after those experiences I was truly content with the championship in 2004. Same with when Vinatieri split the uprights. I did not grow up a Celtics or Bruins fan. So, for about 35 years, Championships simply were not for my teams. I didn't expect them and when they finally got them, one sure was plenty for me.

    I have this conversation at work a lot. I live in Arizona, where they never win anything except once and people get genuinely pissed when I express concern over and upcoming playoff game. I guess the way that I explain it is that it's involuntary. I'm tremendously content with how it's all worked out, and I feel already like it's more than I ever could have expected and I'm a very lucky sports fan. I truly feel that way intellectually. But in the moment when the games are happening, it's impossible for me to have access to that understanding.

    tl;dr -- I am extremely content with what my teams have achieved and cannot realistically expect more, but I'm still crushed when they lose.
     
  9. cheekydave

    cheekydave Member SoSH Member

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    I was really hoping 2004 would happen before I died. It did. After that is all gravy.
     
  10. Rasputin

    Rasputin Will outlive SeanBerry Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    173-0 or bust.

    Maybe it's the circumstances or maybe it's me, but I found 88 and 90 to be more painful than 86. I found this team for the first time in 1986 and all I really knew before that was the Celtics. When the Sox lost in 86 it sucked, don't get me wrong, but I assumed they'd be back soon. Then we go back to the playoffs in 88 and get utterly curb-stomped. Then we're in the goddamn wilderness until 1995. I mean, we just went five years between winning the World Series and it felt like a lifetime in the wilderness and it wasn't that long ago that we went five years without making the playoffs.
     
  11. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I'll die feeling fortunate that I was born in New England and spent my life as a Boston sports fan, and that I got to see Havlicek and Orr and Bird and Brady and Ortiz and Pierce and Bergeron and Brady. But I always want more. I admit to being spoiled and greedy about this stuff. And I'm still pissed about the Bruins not winning in 1971 and the Celtics not winning in 1973 and the Patriots in 2006 and the Red Sox in 2008 and on and on. Hell I'm pissed that Pesky held the ball and Galehouse got the ball and Russell got hurt and I wasn't alive for any of those.

    But right now I'm pretty damn happy.
     
  12. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

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    If I were to die tomorrow, I could go with no regrets, having seen the Sox win four times in my life when not long ago I wondered if I ever saw one.

    But as long as I'm breathing, I'm gonna want more. That's just how it goes.
     
  13. WheresDewey

    WheresDewey lurker

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    Yes, and yes, but don't lose to the Yankees.
     
  14. reggiecleveland

    reggiecleveland sublime Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    With the state of baseball , and thew advantage the Sox money has over most of MLB they should win couple more before I am done. Now if the heirs to John Henry an Werner wil likely be insane entitle rich brats that will do something stupid, so who knows.

    I senese a window may be closing on both the Bruins and PAts, but hopefully the Cs can get one from this crew.

    I mostly don't want the Soc to outscore the Yankees this century and the Lakers to never catch the Celtics. I think I may retire from NFL fandom with Brady due to the concussions, etc.
     
  15. Patek's 3 Dingers

    Patek's 3 Dingers lurker

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    I was a Sox fan for 35 years before 2004 and experienced mediocre teams, long playoff droughts and optimism over failed prospects such as Bob Zupcic, Kevin Morton and Phil Plantier. I was convinced I would never see the Sox win the WS.

    The 2004 season was incredible, of course. To me, the comeback against the Yankees was better than a WS win. It shut up the Yankees and the "1918" chant forever.
     
  16. canderson

    canderson Fomenting voting confusion and angst since 2016 Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    MORE. Many more.

    They'll be last place finishes, boring teams, bad managers. Only way to get that taste out of your mouth is a title.

    Not until we pass NY will I be content. :)
     
  17. JimD

    JimD Member SoSH Member

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    I'm glad to see that I'm not alone. In the moment, it always feels like life and death. It's easy to look back now and think 'Wow, they went 11-3 ... what the eff was I was worried about?' but there are always a few dicey moments in any series. Crazy things happen in sports as we are all too aware of around here.
     
  18. singaporesoxfan

    singaporesoxfan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The 2004 ALCS and the quality of the 2018 team definitely did something to me - I noticed that I actually wasn't super worried after each of the lost games in each series, because the flip side of losing one game was that no other team would have the chance of becoming the next team to come back from a 3-0 deficit (2-0, I suppose, in the ALDS but it was the Yankees so same effect). Even during Game 4 of the World Series I was pretty calm with them being 4-0 down.
     
  19. heunderhandstofirst

    heunderhandstofirst lurker

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    I grew up in NY and was tormented as a child and an adult by classmates, supposed friends, colleagues, and neighbors. I have been heckled by strangers, hotel clerks, baristas, and homeless people across the US and in many different countries. Even my parish priest gave me grief.

    Very happy we won in 2004, 2007, 2013 and 2018. This may not be the question but not satisfied until MFY fans are like Knick fans.

    Step on the throats of the Bombers.
     
  20. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    An aside.

    No way can the 2010-Now Yankees be THE MFYs.

    The MFYs will always be the about 1978-2003. There were guys on that team that I might cut off my own limb if it meant they would fall to their death Hans Gruber style.

    These current Yankees? I want to beat, but just about the same way I want to beat the Os or Astros (team de jour).

    Basically, Back in my day the Yankees were an evil that must be expunged. You youngsters (i am 46) know nothing jon snow about a Yankee rivalry.
     
  21. Skiponzo

    Skiponzo Member SoSH Member

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    My father is a Yankee fan, my brother in law a Yankee fan (which makes my sister a Yankee fan) and I grew up in Western MA very close to Yankee territory so I know what you went through. Now though I no longer have that same hatred. Do I want to beat the Yankees? Absolutley. more so than any other team. In fact after winning the ALDS I was fine with losing to the Astros or Dodgers....just not the Yankees.

    Mostly now though I just enjoy the angst that the Sox success gives Yankee fans. It's really fun for me to see them squirm the way we used to.
     
  22. PaulinMyrBch

    PaulinMyrBch Don't touch his dog food Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I was born in 1964, by my accounts I've enjoyed 16 Boston championships plus the Clemson natty. Counting as follows, Sox (4) and Pats (5) since I've been alive, Celtics (6) going back to 1974, and Bruins 2011. I'm not counting the ones I was alive for but don't really recall enjoying, which would be 7 more. So while I've feel like the last 30 years have been pretty good, I'm selfish in the sense I want a few more Pats titles so that Brady has a record that is so far ahead of anyone behind him that the GOAT discussion continues for decades. In order of who I want to see win another, for me its Pats, Celtics, Sox, Bruins.
     
  23. Flunky

    Flunky Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    How long are we talking? I have youngish kids, they were 5 and 3 years old for 2013 so this is the first WS title they’ll remember. It’d be a bummer if they’re elderly or worse before the next one. So keep on winning. In fact it’s been a while since a repeat WS winner, so let’s start there (conveniently wiping away a Yankee claim).

    Me personally, I’d be fine. I mean I’m still happy recalling the last Cowboys dynasty. 4 WS titles in under 20 years as a Red Sox fan before 2004 would have seemed so incredibly outlandish...
     
  24. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    I remember that being expressed here as a satisfactory outcome, but it seems so, so strange to read it now. My hope was all the way or bust; I wanted to see them win one without Big Papi. And they did! Ortiz was beginning to look like the be all and end all after last year. They just had to get rid of Farrell, hire Cora and sign JD Martinez. And a lot of other ingredients were put into play of course.
     
  25. BosoxTiger55

    BosoxTiger55 lurker

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    I'm in my mid-60's, and the first professional sports season I clearly remember was the 1967 Red Sox. I couldn't sleep for two days after the 1986 series, and still have the scars from 1975, 1978, and 2003. But 2004 changed everything. EVERYTHING! I could die happy, knowing that I had seen the greatest comeback ever in sports history, and knowing that that comeback was against the hated Yankees.

    I live in Chicago, married to a hard core Cubs fan. The 2016 Cubs completed the set for the professional sports teams in our family. That Cubs team ending their 108 year drought became as important to me as the 2004 Red Sox team was, and it completed my sports bucket list.

    Here's another thought for the board. The only other sporting event I've seen that approached the wonder of 2004 Red Sox title was the 1980 Olympic Hockey tournament. U.S.A. vs. U.S.S.R was simply the greatest upset of my lifetime, and that Gold Medal team included Boston University players that I watched play while in college.

    So for me, having lived to see the 1980 Olympic Hockey Team, the 2004 Red Sox, and the 2016 Cubs was enough for a lifetime. All the rest, profoundly appreciated, was wonderful, but unnecessary.
     
  26. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    Yeah but I’m not going to be depressed when they don’t win like before 2004. 2003 threw me for an emotional crash for a few solid days. Now? Of course I want them to win and am never happy when they don’t. But, say, last years super bowl, it was much more like ‘damn’. And the. I avoided espn and forgot about it.
     
  27. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

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    I remember the 2008 ALCS. I thought that was a great team. I really wanted them to beat the Rays. Got to seven games, and then they didn't. Then the sun rose and I had lunch.

    It is so much fun but no, I don't need it again. I just need baseball in some form. I might not be as big a sports fans as some though, too, I love the Bruins but don't follow closely and don't care about the Celtics and definitely not the Patriots.
     
  28. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    I think you mean Pats in 2007, the undefeated year. Hell we were probably ripped off a Super Bowl chance by Ben Dreith against the Raiders in that playoff game in 76. (Roughing the passer, horrible call) Another might be Celtics in 85 when Bird hurt his hand in that bar fight during Sixers series. They may have 3 peated if he wasn't hurting.
     
  29. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    Yes but they HAD! to win the World Series for the curse to be over and they did. The "curse" was not about beating the Yankees but about not winning the WS since 1918. We still would have heard the "1918" chant through 07. People were celebrating like nuts when we beat the Yanks in ALCS in 04, but they didn't cry. They cried when they won the World Series a week later.
     
  30. brs3

    brs3 sings praises of pinstripes SoSH Member

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    I still get irrationally upset if the Sox lose in the playoffs, but it doesn't linger for weeks like it did pre-2004. I'm emotionally more stable because of that wonderful team. It's messed up to even type those words, but here we are. Each title makes it easier to watch. Wiping away the Yankees again in the first matchup since 2004 is a delicious cherry on top, though I wish the "Yankees Suck" chant would die in a fire.

    I love the feeling of championships, but I did say I would be fine with 2004 if that were all we got. Fortunately we've been blessed with an abundance of championships!
     
  31. Skiponzo

    Skiponzo Member SoSH Member

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    Yup. I remember so many people congratulating me for the Sox beating the Yanks. I told them all the same thing; "It's not about beating the Yankees. It's about winning the World Series."
     
  32. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    When they lose to a better team, like the Stros last year it doesn't hurt so bad. Particularly since the Sox had won 3 WS titles in my lifetime. But it hurt like hell to lose to a much better team that they were on the brink of beating then blew it. Ex: 75 WS, 86, WS and 03 ALCS. I can imagine that feeling in 46 for our parents and grandparents. Plus the Sox were the favorite that WS. Losing to the A's in 88 and 90 kind of sucked @ getting swept but we know they were the superior team. 1990 Red Sox, still my favorite all time team.
     
  33. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    I also often wonder now if our parents, grandparents and great grandparents, uncles and aunts etc.. that are no longer with us are looking down happy for us or saying......"Enough already you spoiled brats, we didn't get to see one" LOL.
     
  34. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Yeah there's a ton of seasons I am still pissed off about. I was giving examples. But I know the difference between 2006 and 2007 and I meant 2006.
     
  35. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    They can see us but not the games? The afterlife sucks.
     
  36. sheamonu

    sheamonu Member SoSH Member

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    Woody Allen once said “I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve it by not dying”. I don’t want to go to my grave satisfied with any particular level of success, I am content to remain both perpetually unsatisfied and perpetually not dead. Is that too much to ask?
     
  37. redsox102704

    redsox102704 lurker

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    Along with the Sox, I'm passionate about the Pats and Uconn men's basketball. So, in the past twenty years I have 4 titles for the Sox, 5 for the Pats and 4 for Uconn. If you asked me in 1998 I probably would have doubted I'd ever see one championship. I really want more for the Pats, mostly because they were so close to having 8 SB's. The two vs. NYG and the blown 21-3 lead in 2006 vs Indy which would have led to a SB vs. CHI.
     
  38. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    I've lived in Philly since 1971 and have become a big St.Joe basketball fan and a fan of the Big five teams with the exception of Villanova. We had your Huskies beat in 2014 but blew the one in one and then you guys hit the 3 to send it into ot. The rest is history as you know but you broke our hearts on your way to your 4th. It was nice that you put a good whipping on Nova though. We were one shot away from going to the final 4 in 2004 and almost meeting you then. Since my Boston teams have won many titles now my no.1 sports bucket list now is for a non-Villanova Big five team to win the NCAA mens basketball title. That would mean more to me then my Boston teams winning again.
     
    #88 jaytftwofive, Nov 2, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  39. gryoung

    gryoung Member SoSH Member

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    After the Sox in ‘04 and the Pats in ‘01, all else is house money.
     
  40. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    And to think this success all happened after The good curse of Rick Pitino. Just think he left in 2000 months after the famous press conference............"Larry Bird's not walkin through that daw folks" LOL. Can anybody upload it?. My computer's having download trouble. It seems all the success can be credited to Rick.
     
  41. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    And like I said on another post, I would trade all these 11 titles in if it meant them winning in 75,86,78 or even 95 to see my father win one. He passed in 1999.
     
  42. shepard50

    shepard50 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Such a moment:

     
  43. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    So, to go back to this, I think it's important to put out the distinction - I actually enjoy watching baseball. To me that means, I can get emotionally invested in a great game, even if the team's success no longer ranks as high in my list of life priorities as it did in 2004. I think MLB has a fascinating dynamic that has emerged from its rules whereby most serious baseball fans can enjoy watching a surprising fraction of ordinary games that their team has no stake in, because most of the time you can see some great player whose legend has lit up highlight reels, or there's some hot new prospect to track, or there'll be an extraordinary play to admire. Even in games that are blowouts, the same is true. The NFL, to capture even a small fraction of that effect, has had to essentially sell themselves to gambling interests (though some around here would remind us they were founded by gambling interests), and that's a far more capricious and ephemeral form of interest from the public.

    This year I'd say my background emotion was "these guys are a hell of a lot of fun, and they're also the best team, and I'd very much like to see them get their due in all respects". If they had been pushed harder than they were, by opponents who were up for it the way the 2004 Yankees or 2007 Indians or 2013 Tigers were, it might have dominated my psyche this past month to a greater degree. But consider the situations you call out:

    Kimbrel melting down vs MFY: "We're up 2-1, worst case scenario we have Sale pitching at home to close them out. Just fucking yesterday we humiliated them in such stunningly thorough fashion that even if we cough up a split here, I'll laugh all the way to game 5". I started rolling my eyes as the bullshit started that inning, and I hung on every pitch, but I wasn't a nervous wreck. Just very, very interested, and a little disgusted.

    Benintendi's catch: I've spoken of this game ad nauseam here, but ALCS Game 4 was a pantheon-level exemplar of the art of baseball, to me. My working definition of art is a spectacle that evokes strong emotion in the beholder, and if you could watch that game and not be affected by it, I'm not sure you're a fan of the power of human achievement, nevermind a baseball fan. I remember starting to watch it while also doing other things on my laptop, and eating a late dinner, and basically by the end of the game I had a headache from staring at my screen too hard for too long. It was fucking intense. But even so, we were up 2-1 in a best of 7. Worst case, we were in a best of 3 with home field advantage.

    WS Game 3: I appreciated the game, but frankly it dragged. I was a little nervous of losing 1-0 until JBJ hit his glorious shot, which I had kinda felt was coming because we were in the heads of their bullpen and you just can't shut this lineup down for long. Once we tied it, I knew the worst case for us was a pyrrhic victory for them and a statement made by us, even in defeat, that we're fucking coming for you, Dodgers, and you better be nervous. Martinez getting pinch-run for infuriated me ("that's the exact move Tito never would have made!"), and the less said of his replacement the better. At around the 16th inning, circa 3am ET, I realized I was nodding off pretty continuously and it was no longer practical to try and focus on a game.

    Basically, there was no point in all of october that really inspired pathological feelings. No getting knocked around 19-8 to go down 0-3. No Derek Lowe making the pitch of his life to bail us out of a vice-grip situation. No Tony Clark up with an ability to hit a series-ending walkoff. No Josh Beckett standing as the only thing between us and the forces of darkness. No "holy shit, Detroit's way better than we are, I'm not sure we've had a hit in two games, how in god's name are we even going to salvage respectability here". At no point was I forced to contemplate their failure. If anything, that ought to be part of the claim to greatness of this team - sometimes it got interesting, but at no point did it get worrying for their fans.

    And to your larger point - that if you still get nervous, you're not really "good" with the glories you've seen, and the converse as well - I think that's a matter of us now having perspective. I can fervently hope the 2018 Red Sox become champions, because dammit they deserve it and they're awesome and I root for them - but if they didn't, I wouldn't be like Job from the bible, rending my garments and shrieking out "my lord, why have you forsaken me". I'm forever "good" in that sense, that it's no longer possible to feel some sense of cosmic injustice as a sports fan. I'm left with an ability to appreciate greatness, to be stunned by great play, to say "holy shit did that just happen?", and to conjure loathing of those standing in my team's way. But man, if Dave Roberts gets thrown out, it'd have been a whole other level of philosophical questioning.
     
  44. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    Of course I had butterflies it's natural for us. But I had a lot of confidence also in this team.
     
  45. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    Wasn't she also a porn star. Or soft core.
     
  46. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    I went to bed the night of game 5 when it was in like the 3rd inning, quite confident I’d wake up to a title. Writing that sentence would have been unfathomable 15 years ago. I crave more Pats titles more than anything because they are chasing history. But I can’t ask for more.
     
  47. Captaincoop

    Captaincoop Member SoSH Member

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    The Celtics remaining ahead of the Lakers in championships is very important to me (important in an illogical, sports fan sense).

    That, and the Sox winning enough to keep Yankee fans from ever being again able to credibly taunt me are the only exceptions to my "being good" with all this.

    And all that means is, I'm not punching a hole in my TV or breaking anything in my living room when seasons end moving forward.
     
  48. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    My dad literally punched a hole in the wall after Grady.
     
  49. InsideTheParker

    InsideTheParker Member SoSH Member

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    By the way, it seems that it's all Red Sox all the time on mlbn nowadays. Right now there's a retrospective on post-season 2013, my favorite of them all.
     
  50. jaytftwofive

    jaytftwofive lurker

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    I don't know if you remember a a story by our poster Jack Lamabe (Shawn) in 04 I think, about his neighbor in Wellesley who smashed his tv after game 6, 86 World Series. Put it out in the trash that night. Pretty emotional.
     

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