Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

Time for a rebuild?

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by crazybird1, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. crazybird1

    crazybird1 lurker

    Messages:
    196
    I understand a lot of people will scoff at this, but enough people have responded positively on the game thread I thought I would see how it would do on the main board. This team as currently constructed is a good team, but not in the same league as the Astros, Indians or the Yankees. They very well could end up winning the wildcard over the next few years, but barring a stroke of luck (injuries to the Yankees) they are unlikely to compete for the division for awhile. I feel it would be better if DD acknowledge the weakness's of this team and did a rebuild. The hope is that rather then let the Sox fate be decided in a one game wildcard playoff, they will instead try to build a team that can go up against the Yankees, Indians and Astros. DD should trade Xander (who I think is not going to become a middle of the order hitter) , JBJ, Pom, Kimbrel and possibly Sale. He should see if there are any takers for Porcello and Hanley if the Sox ate a chunk of salary. The next team should be built around Betts, Benni, Devers and if not traded Sale. Efforts should be made to lock up those players. Bring up the prospects over the course of the next couple years and hope to compete in 2020.
     
  2. Joe D Reid

    Joe D Reid Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,925
    No. You are wrong.
     
  3. AlNipper49

    AlNipper49 Huge Member Dope

    Messages:
    40,377
  4. sean1562

    sean1562 lurker

    Messages:
    1,055
    I agree. We should trade all of our players at the nadir of their value. Benintendi and Devers are who they are, there is no possible chance of improvement. Being a small market team, Boston just cant afford to make any FA signings to improve their offense. Even though Chris Sale was one of the best pitchers in the league this year, his one bad playoff game means he sucks and can def not anchor a rotation in the future.

    I hate baseball and will only watch the Red Sox if they are 100% guaranteed to win the WS. They must win every playoff game they participate in or they have failed as a franchise
     
  5. crazybird1

    crazybird1 lurker

    Messages:
    196
    Nice straw man
     
  6. uncannymanny

    uncannymanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,405
    Yes, go away and come back better.
     
  7. AB in DC

    AB in DC OG Football Writing Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,499
    That's...not a selling point.
     
  8. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    27,139
    It's more than your thread-starter deserves. In before lock, I suppose.
     
  9. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    What middle of the order hitter should Xander be traded for and who would then play shortstop?
     
  10. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,224
    SoSH--Redefining stupid every day.
     
  11. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    29,516

    Stanton or trout. Duh.

    Both of them can move to SS
     
  12. crazybird1

    crazybird1 lurker

    Messages:
    196
    I actually would advocate trading for prospects in order to maximize length of control. The Sox are still a big market team so they can obviously supplement the new core with free agents. This is less about the Sox being a really bad team and more about the Sox not being good enough. Obviously people disagree and honestly I can see both sides of the argument, but this is the direction I would go.
     
  13. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    53,519
    That's not even true
     
  14. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

    Messages:
    29,537
    All their key players are already under years of control. X, JBJ, Mookie, Benintendi, Devers, Vazquez....years of control being home grown players. Sale, Pom, and Price under control too.

    So what the hell are you talking about?
     
  15. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    What is the direction you would go? Trade all the current players for prospects, but sign free agents? Which prospects would you target and which free agents? I'm having a hard time following what you are going for here.
     
  16. Hendu for Kutch

    Hendu for Kutch Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,142
    Ya, they just aren't on the level of and can't hope to compete with that team they just won the division over.

    Do you hear yourself? You're literally telling them to quit while they're ahead.
     
  17. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,890
    I’m eating quinoa chips. They taste like Munchos but don’t make me feel like crap. Big fan.
     
  18. scottyno

    scottyno Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,481
    If they're good but not good enough and a big market team wouldn't the answer be to supplement the true talent 93 win team by spending money rather than blowing it up?
     
  19. crazybird1

    crazybird1 lurker

    Messages:
    196
    I apologize if I wasn't clear. Most big market teams are built through draft, trades and free agents. So any team the sox would build would be centered around those. Guys like Pom and Kimbrel have one year left and other guys such as Sale, and Xander have two years left. Since I think it is unlikely they will be able to compete with the Yankees for the division over the next two to three years, I think it is better if they utilize some of their assets to obtain players they will have under control for five or six years. Yes the Sox won the division this year, but the Yankees will be a better team next year, especially if they get Otani. Since it appears unlikely the Sox will obtain anything other then a wildcard spot over the next two or three years, I was suggesting that it might be time to try again.
     
  20. glasspusher

    glasspusher Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,278
    I suppose it is if, by "enough", he meant zero.
     
  21. drleather2001

    drleather2001 given himself a skunk spot SoSH Member

    Messages:
    23,717
    Time for a re-FILL on my beer, is more like it.
     
  22. Rice4HOF

    Rice4HOF Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,675
    I liked this place better when lurkers couldn't post on the main board.
     
  23. PaSox

    PaSox lurker

    Messages:
    69
    If most big market teams are built through the draft, trades and free agents, can you please explain to me how other teams are built?
     
  24. LogansDad

    LogansDad Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,547
    What in the.... seriousl... I can't ev..... OMFG

    Rebuild? When so many of the most important parts of a team that just won the division, with a lot of those key parts underachieving based on their previous career expectations? Trade Chris Sale?

    The only thing I agree with your post on is that Xander is not a middle of the order hitter, and that's because a healthy Xander should be batting 1st or 2nd.

    Also, every team is built through "draft, trades, and free agents"... those are pretty much the only three ways to build a team, unless there is some wacky technology out there that I'm not aware of.

    Is this guy posting from BigChara33's IP address?
     
  25. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    Try again how? What players should they try to obtain? Can you answer some of the questions being posed to you?

    Given they finished ahead of the Yankees this year can you provide some evidence to back up your claim that they won't be able to compete with the Yankees in the next 2-3 years?
     
  26. SydneySox

    SydneySox A dash of cool to add the heat Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,458
    Which ignores the fact the Yankees are literally playing in the post-season tonight and they didn't win the division.
     
  27. alamat86

    alamat86 lurker

    Messages:
    12
  28. crazybird1

    crazybird1 lurker

    Messages:
    196
    That was said tongue in check. I am sorry did I miss some sort of SOSH protocol? I get why this idea would not be popular, but I am not getting the hostility. Is that how people generally act on SOSH? Either way when the Sox win the wild card next year I will be rooting for them, I just think the Yanks and many other teams are on the rise and the Sox are not good enough.
     
  29. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,421
    This is one crazy bird.
     
  30. pk1627

    pk1627 Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,587
    Time for a timeout for this person
     
  31. Devizier

    Devizier Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,447
    We should put someone new in to shake up the establishment
     
  32. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    I've just asked you a bunch of questions to clarify what it is you're trying to say. Can you answer them? If not then that's basically the reason others are giving you hostility. You aren't backing up what you are saying or even willing to explain it.
     
  33. dbn

    dbn Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,877
    C'mon, people, stop hating. At least the first phrase of the opening post is completely accurate.
     
  34. SydneySox

    SydneySox A dash of cool to add the heat Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,458
    Good enough to do what?

    Personally I think they should sign Judge. The Sox need power and it would also hurt the Yankees.
     
  35. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    53,519
    You're trying to get answers from a lurker who admitted in the game thread that s/he uses multiple aliases on SoSH. I admire the effort, but don't hurt your head banging it into that particular wall.
     
  36. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,421
    This is a great idea. I don't think they can make the deal in time to get him out there for Game 2; but if he can be in a Sox uniform by the time the series returns to Fenway, he can do some real damage for us there.
     
  37. AlNipper49

    AlNipper49 Huge Member Dope

    Messages:
    40,377
    My cat’s breath smells like cat food
     
  38. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    22,259
    I don't see much hostility, but let me try to swing you around in a non-condescending way.

    Rebuilds are enormously difficult and expensive. They are difficult because you miss as often as you hit, probably more often. And they are expensive because they usually entail sucking for a period of years before you hit pay dirt, if you hit pay dirt. See, for example, the Astros. This is why teams don't undertake them unless they are in extremis and practically have no choice. A good candidate very soon if not now is the Baltimore Orioles.

    While I admire your "rings or bust" attitude and share your concern about the relative strength of the RS competitors, why would they ever do this when they have very good, young cost controlled players for several seasons? You are assuming a degree of confidence in the rebuild process for which there is no rational basis. You are ignoring the enormous downside. You are apparently willing to let the perfect be the enemy of good.
     
  39. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,459
    Stupid is a Stupid threads.
     
  40. sketz

    sketz Bad Santa Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    129
    Are we talking talking about MLB The Show? If so, I'm all in with this strategy - I love a good rebuild to start a franchise. If you're talking about actual baseball, I'd suggest applying the same doom & gloom assumptions you seem to be making for the sox to CLE & NY and tell me why they shouldn't punt as well. Astros will be great for a while, but everything else is a crapshoot if you can make it into the playoffs. And if you're in the WC, a guy like Sale in a must win seems like a nice piece to keep rather than trade.
     
  41. SydneySox

    SydneySox A dash of cool to add the heat Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,458
    Jesus we need a sandbox, HE'S PLAYING FOR THE YANKEES TONIGHT you n00b. We have to wait for the offseason to sign him.

    In all seriousnessness I think we can all agree the Red Sox won the division in a weird year and Crazybird1 is at least correct in suggesting it won't be as easy next year. Though in saying that, Baltimore and Toronto are likely to continue regressing hard which won't hurt.

    edit - we went 9 -10 v Baltimore and 13 - 6 v Toronto. It's unlikely we'll pick up too many extra wins there.
     
  42. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    27,139
    I sleep in a drawer.
     
  43. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,224
    My kidneys are kidney shaped
     
  44. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,058
    When we're so quick to punt away the next three seasons just as our previous round of young talent is coming of-age, does this last go around even count as trying?
     
  45. Jordu

    Jordu Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,062
    I have a brother and our first names begin with the same letter.
     
  46. Kenny F'ing Powers

    Kenny F'ing Powers posts 18% useful shit Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,915
    PIGPILE!

    THE OP SUCKS!!1!
     
  47. DisgruntledSoxFan77

    DisgruntledSoxFan77 lurker

    Messages:
    444
  48. Seels

    Seels Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,802
    This team is like the opposite of the 2013 team for me. I thought the 2013 had limited talent but had a bunch of career years. This team has loads of talent but really only had Sale playing to his talent level. If guys like Devers / JBJ / Beni / Betts / Price play 80% of how good they are, this is a 100 win team. Of course when the entire group plays like dogshit they're not.

    Anybody ever notice how much Buchholz looks like Cricket from It's Always Sunny?
     
  49. Plympton91

    Plympton91 bubble burster SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,000
    Even if you dismiss a rebuild out of hand, it's obvious they have to retool some.

    People are suggesting that the Sox and their insane 18-3 record in extra innings can close the gap with 2 -100 win teams and a Yankee team that finished 1 game back that will be freeing up a ton of dead salary. That's going to take some significant upgrades.

    An important question here is, "What is next year's budget?" They can only improve through free agency if Henry is going back into 2015 mode--and if he does hopefully they spend on actual talent this time.

    Further, is the talent available in FA and trades at the positions they need? The biggest upgrades seem like they'd be DH, first base, and catcher. But is there a catcher available who is a difference maker? First base/ DH can be improved, with whom though? Do you just DFA Hanley? Make plans for 2018 as if he's the backup first baseman?

    Then there's the rotation. Is David Price going to come back and be a #1a starter? Regress a bit more from 2016 and be a #3, or is he headed for TJS? Will the real Rick Porcello please stand up, please stand up? But it's hard to convince a FA to sign with you unless you're guaranteeing them a rotation spot. Hard to do that unless you're planning on Porcello, Rodriguez, or Price not being in that rotation.

    Big impact Trades? Will Jeter even consider Stanton to the Red Sox? How much talent does he want vs just dumping the salary? Can you take the whole contract, trade JBJ and Chavis to the Marlins, move Betts to CF, and Stanton plays RF (actually, he's more of a LF in Fenway)?

    What can Bogaerts bring back with 2 years until the Boras stupidity kicks in? He's the 5th or 6th best SS in the AL. That's nice. Is it worth a cleanup hitter or #2 starter. The could platoon Lin and Marerro and get a 730 OPS and better defense.

    Other teams looking to streamline their salary structure and have a productive player at a position of need?
     
  50. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

    Messages:
    29,537
    Stanton is great, but is he so great as to dump one of the young players already in the outfield?

    The term "rebuild" implies gutting the team, and given their youth and quality that's a profoundly silly thing to consider. Yes, upgrade at DH and 1b, by all means. But you've got 6 position players who are home grown and young and are either in their prime or just entering it. Rebuilding doesn't make any sense.
     

Share This Page