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The sixers and building a winner

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by LondonSox, Jul 11, 2014.

  1. bowiac

    bowiac I've been living a lie. Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    "funny"
     
  2. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    LondonSox would like to have a word with you...
     
  3. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Really? Is this the same injury that was announced the day after he was dancing on stage at a live show?

    Not saying your source is inaccurate, but it would be extremely befuddling to me why the Sixers traded Noel if they thought there was any chance that Embiid's injury was really serious. I mean what's the thinking there?
     
  4. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    They prefer Okafor.
     
  5. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    Simmons and Embiid out for the year. Lakers out tanking.

    Sweet.

    Guess I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue
     
  6. oumbi

    oumbi Member SoSH Member

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    And here is an update on Simmons:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...one-marrow-injection-to-help-heal-foot-injury

    The Philadelphia 76ers announced on Monday that Ben Simmons underwent a procedure to "stimulate bone growth" and "accelerate healing" in his injured right foot.

    According to Keith Pompey of the Philadelphia Inquirer, the procedure involved Simmons having bone marrow injected into his right foot. Simmons is recovering from a Jones fracture of the fifth metatarsal suffered in September.

    Simmons will resume training by the end of the week, per the Sixers.

    The procedure comes just a few days after a CT scan revealed Simmons' foot hadn't fully healed.

    "He's heartbroken," Sixers general manager Bryan Colangelo said at the time, per Brian Seltzer of Sixers.com. "He wants to play, be out there. It's eating him alive, I'm sure."
     
  7. Rusty13

    Rusty13 Member SoSH Member

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    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-andrew-bogut-agrees-to-buyout-with-76ers-223334723.html

     
  8. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Noel had pissed off basically the entire organization. Not as bad as a Boogie Cousins situation but he clearly was not getting a LT deal from Philly. I think they waited too long to deal him but they probably had to because of the Embiid certainty and his own injury issues.
     
  9. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    I don't get why he was great until they totally fucked up the situation.
     
  10. sox311

    sox311 Member SoSH Member

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    This is depressing to read. Embiid is such a fun player and just insanely gifted. If Oden had not had his injury problems, would the evolution of the NBA have passed him by at this point? Would he basically be Roy Hibbert? Jahlil Okafor? Whiteside at the very best comparison?
     
  11. Devizier

    Devizier Member SoSH Member

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    That undersells Oden by a lot.

    Oden had huge red flags coming into the draft. And those concerns became manifest, obviously.

    But when he played, he was a defensive impact player with a decent post game. Despite his looks he had freakish athleticism, was quick for a huge guy and could jump (at least in college).

    The Embiid comparison is actually pretty apt. Hopefully it turns out better for Joel, but leg/foot injuries on bigs are a career killer.
     
  12. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    *cough* Ben Simmons *cough* It looks like Kristaps may be in the clear though.
     
  13. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Noel had every right to stand up for himself. I'm not as long on him as many, I think he will be a nice complementary piece but he was entering a contract year and essentially benched because the organization had drafted 3 centers over 3 seasons. If I'm a lottery pick and my team selects centers with the #3 pick in the two years I'm drafted I'm going to make Noel's outrage appear sane. He was fvcked by the prior administration and stood up for himself. I doubt very much he's more of an a-hole than your typical entitled young NBA player.
     
  14. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Not necessarily disagreeing with you. Just relaying what I've learned regarding the organization's opinion of him. Don't blame these players at all. The money is so immense that being in a bad situation can really cost you.
     
  15. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Yeah I agree it's all about the money and in Noel's case it should have been. He had to force himself out of that terrible situation and get into a position without a logjam at his position on a team willing to commit to him.
     
  16. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    Again it comes down to Okafor.
    If they don't draft him no issue.
    If they move him last summer, probably no issue. Minutes for Noel and Embiid uncertain injury status etc

    I have little issue with his behaviour overall. He got frustrated. Colangelo really dicked everyone around since he joined frankly, the communication has been poor and the playing time etc seemingly random. Noel won't play, then he will. When he got benched for a clearly inferior player in a contract year yeah I'd be annoyed too
     
  17. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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  18. smastroyin

    smastroyin simpering whimperer Dope

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    Definitely the right decision, but sucks. Seems like similar to Simmons things just aren't healing up the way you would expect.
     
  19. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    MCW, Noel, Embiid, Saric, Okafor and Simmons... that's six lottery picks since the start of the "Process" era and not much to show for it in terms of on-court production. I feel bad for Philly fans.
     
  20. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Man, it was only like 4 weeks ago folks were talking about an (unlikely) playoff run.
     
  21. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

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    Well based on his first two years he would have been something close to peak Dwight Howard, except he showed the potential through his FT% (64,77) and his 10-16 ft jumper (38% in 09) that maybe he develops a 3 ball. So... yeah he was probably going to be a perennial all-star if he kept up his pace, almost nobody rebounds like he did and is that efficient in terms of TS%.
     
  22. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    And they traded a 28 year-old Iguodala coming off an all-star season and literally had nothing to show for it since Bynum's knees were shot.
     
  23. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    Let's say today's team was still Jrue, Evan Turner, Iggy, Thad Young and Vucevic with Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks and Spencer Hawes off the bench plus whatever they cobbled together from the draft and free agency the past five years. How many games do they win in today's Eastern Conference?
     
  24. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The Sixers Evan Turner or the Brad Stevens version of Evan Turner? Just asking... lol
     
  25. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

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    NBA fans should be bummed about Embiid, but for Sixers fans, don't worry, Oak's got this.



    Seriously though, if he's not hurt, that's a disgraceful effort and a snapshot of why his on/off numbers suck.
     
  26. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Wow, that's as bad as it gets.
     
  27. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    This is why I hate him. He does a play like this every game.

    All the detail effort things, running the court, getting back on defense, setting screens, playing defense and just boxing out! All of it he won't do. That's fucking Bullshit.

    Someone could fix him I guess but it ain't gonna be the sixers

    Why every sixers fan wanted Noel to stay and move him. Anyone who says otherwise does watch games or is a moron.

    And I am sad about Noel but I'm not that sad because it seems clear colangelo wasn't going to sign him so eh. And IF (HUGE FLAMING IF) Embiid is OK Holmes is a fine first backup for a while.

    I just have no idea who you think you can get to spend money on. It's one thing to not overspend on a guy, but if you don't spend it on someone else it's not a better use.

    I think Embiid is not that bad, I've heard several super connected people say that it wasn't worse. Just not better and no upside. They already sold the season tickets for next year so let him heal and tank. Who knows they lie.

    Simmons and Embiid healthy and a better draft position is pretty sensible. I just wish I was confident that was the case.
     
  28. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Dario Saric's last 13: 31.2mpg, 19.6 points, 8.4 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1 steal on .487/.309/.800 shooting. The assists number has been on the climb of late. Is his passing as good as his numbers? I haven't seen many Philly games this year but I'm thinking Dario is ROY.
     
  29. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    His passing is better if anything. His best skill.
    His defense is high iq but limited athleticism, and will never be good but it is high effort smart and seems to turn up at key moments.
    His rebounding is solid, great iq great effort but again not athletic enough to be great.
    His shooting is better than his numbers, he's lost his shot at parts of the season, started getting flat. In time I think he's a solid shooter.
    He's also been a bit scared at the rim after getting some welcome to the NBA early. But he's figuring it out.
    But his elite skills are vision, passing and being able to rip the board and go and act like a point forward.
    I think he's a solid rotation guy and currently the best player healthy on a rough team ex him and Covington and maybe TJ.

    I'm shocked at his performance as a rookie and the constant improvement. I've raised my ceiling and floor on him. There's basically low risk he's not a useful player now. And if he can sort his shot out he's legit good.
     
  30. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Is Richaun Holmes legit? He's still only 23 and has been playing steady minutes since Noel was traded 12 games ago. He's hitting 40% of his 3's this year in a microscopic 16-40 sample size but 18 have come in the last 12 games and he is 8-18. If this is a sign of things to come, they could play 7'0 Embiid at C, 6'10 Holmes at PF, 6'10 Saric at SF, and 6'10 Ben Simmons at PG. And they still have Okafor. It's crazy how many "bigs" this team has. But back to Holmes, is he a good defensive player or does he have the tools to be? He can clearly block shots. Maybe the sixers were really high on Holmes and that's why they moved off Noel so quickly. If he is a good defender and has a decent 3 point shot, he is more valuable.

    Since Noel trade
    Holmes 12 games: 23.4 minutes, 12.6 points, 6.0 rebounds, 0.5 assist, 1.0 steals, 1.5 blocks on .620/.444/.739 shooting.
    Noel 7 games: 24.0 minutes, 10.3 points, 7.9 rebounds, 0.7 assist, 0.6 steals, 1.3 blocks on .592/----/.737 shooting

    Tonight, Holmes has 15 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists and 1 steal of 7/8 shooting at the half in 14 minutes . In the same game, Noel has 8 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal and a block on 4-6 shooting in 14 minutes for the Mavs. Sixers lead 51-40.

    At the very least, Holmes is looking like a steal in the 2nd round.
     
  31. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    I believe the 76ers outscored the Mavs 41-16 at one point.
     
  32. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    47-16. They outscored them 36-16 in the 3rd and then scored the first 11 in the 4th.
     
  33. JohnnyTheBone

    JohnnyTheBone Member SoSH Member

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    The excitement seems a bit much. He's had a streak of good shooting. That's nice. But I'm not changing my view on a dozen games.

    Let's slow down a bit huh. All fans tend to want to look for success from their young guys, and over-react to samples.
     
  34. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    "Low risk he's not a useful player now" is about as slow as you can be. In the 22 games he's started he is at 15.1 points, 7.2 rebounds, 3.1 assists on .431/.358/.750 shooting. In the last 16 games, 20.3, 8.0, 3.8 on .484/.326/.778. People are calling Jaylen Brown a potential all star on far less. I'd say it's very low risk that Saric isn't a useful player and it's safe to adjust your ceiling. The sample size of good play is approaching 2 dozen games now. It's not like he told us what he adjusted his floor and ceiling too.
     
  35. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

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    So then what's the excuse with Dario? I kid, but the dude is a only a month younger than Marcus Smart. Fun guy to watch though, and if Simmons and Embiid get/stay healthy, and the Sixers somehow end up with Lonzo, the ball movement on that team is going to be something to behold.
     
  36. smastroyin

    smastroyin simpering whimperer Dope

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    J the bone was quoting londonsox telling C's fans to slow down on their jaylen brown love.
     
    #1186 smastroyin, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:51 AM
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017 at 7:10 PM
  37. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    Yeah no I got and appreciated that. Good banter!

    The reason I say this (and I'm aware of my bias) is the passing and rebounding.
    I'm not hanging my views on a burst of shooting. I don't believe he's going to forget how to pass or rebound and he's useful if he can do that. He has done that all year. If he can shoot lots of upside, but he's completely unalthetic so he'll never be great defensively.
     
  38. Devizier

    Devizier Member SoSH Member

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    Fun to read this article now.

     
  39. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Richaun Holmes still beasting.
     
  40. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    Huge clutch loss. Up 17 in the third and lose. Mainly thanks to 46 (!) free throws for Orlando and Saric and tlc fouling out and sixers only dressing 9.

    Huge.
     
  41. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Holmes fouled out too which seems to be his one drawback. Now over his last 14 games: 25 minutes .625/.375/.731 13.4 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.5 blocks, 1.1 steal. In those 14 games, they won 5 and lost another 4 games by less than 5 so they've been competitive in that time. Given his skill set, he's going to have a long career even if it is as a 20 minute big off the bench at the very least. Holmes could end up being even more than that. He's a physical specimen with explosive athleticism and great feet who should be a defensive presence while being able to knock down an occasional 3 to keep teams honest. Dude is good.

    He added the 3 his sophomore year in college and shot .300. He followed that up his junior year shooting .419. For his college career, he went .353 from 3 (30-85). So far in the NBA, he's at .286. 8-44 last year, 17-46 this year, 25-90 career.
     
  42. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    Yeah hell of a 2nd round pick that's for sure. He's lost on the pnr defensively at times, and doesn't have Noel's suddenness or hands. I don't know I'd want him starting but he's interesting to fit behind Embiid for that 20 minuets a game, he seems to thrive off the bench - always coming in with high energy. I've been surprised he's been able to replicate that as a starter.

    But what is interesting is that this starting lineup is potentially all the bench for the Sixers as soon as next year. The second unit is winning games and being competitive, that's a Spurs like skill of a second unit anchored by a playmaking Saric.
    TJ, Sauce, TLC, Saric, Holmes as a second unit behind draft pick, Bayless, Covington, Simmons, Embiid bfore you even get to Henderson, who is fine, Okafor who isn't and a potential second first round pick this year. Plus below the salary floor!
    Clearly the issue is health and lottery luck with matter but no question the upside there
     
  43. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    Saric isn't going to be a second unit player. I'd give up as many assets for Saric as I would for Jimmy Butler.
     
  44. smastroyin

    smastroyin simpering whimperer Dope

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    Joel Embiid heading for surgery again.

    If he doesn't play another minute I still like the pick for the Sixers. However, this is too bad. Hopefully he's ready to go soon-ish and still has the explosiveness.
     
    #1194 smastroyin, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:50 PM
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017 at 7:09 PM
  45. bowiac

    bowiac I've been living a lie. Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I can't tell if you're overrating Saric, or underrating Butler. I guess probably both?
     
  46. smastroyin

    smastroyin simpering whimperer Dope

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    I could see the reasoning on a team that isn't a win-now team, because of salary considerations and the fact that they may be similar value players in 3-4 years if you squint and give Saric some projection based on him being a rookie rather than being a 22 YO (kind of like Butler).
     
  47. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    The Embiid news isn't a shock, this is what you do with that injury. They slow announced it as minor, then worse this was inevitable. Can you guess when the season ticket sales happened for next year??

    The management are assholes.
     
  48. bowiac

    bowiac I've been living a lie. Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I think you need to squint an awful lot on Saric, but I kind of took him to be talking about from the Celtics POV (i.e., giving up assets for Butler or Saric). I may have misunderstood.
     
  49. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Saric isn't going to be a second unit player but he has a long way to go defensively to even be passable from the games I've seen. Right now he's Enes Kanter-like bad on that end of the floor.
     
  50. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    Oh now be nice. He's not THAT bad and tries. He's just not remotely athletic
     

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