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The NFL and the National Anthem

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by soxhop411, May 22, 2018.

  1. axx

    axx lurker

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    Even if the League thought they would win, it did look like it would be pretty embarrassing.
     
  2. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Spending $100M+ on this plus DFG sure looks awesome
     
  3. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Gag orders on things like this are contrary to public interest. They should be obligated to tell us all the terrible shit that was said and done about him and players like him, even if they never suffer legal consequences about it. They should be unenforceable as a matter of public policy.
     
  4. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

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  5. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

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    30,257
  6. triniSox

    triniSox Member SoSH Member

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    Good for Kaep but I'm very disappointed in the gag order. I was hoping this lawsuit would bring about real change in how the NFL handles social issues and empowering players to express opinions. With a settlement and gag order, I'm skeptical that will happen.
     
  7. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    [​IMG]

    needs a confederate flag background. Also that image + the curb your enthusiasm theme.
     
  8. axx

    axx lurker

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    Well, the Deflategate lawsuits was more about union wars more than anything else.

    I'm still skeptical about the players kneeling genuineness in general in that it wasn't really union activity; especially once they got an unlikely "ally" in Trump (ironically enough).
     
  9. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    There probably isn't a settlement if gag orders/confidentiality are not part of it. Or it changes the numbers. Kaep didn't have to accept the settlment if he wanted to air this out. Or maybe he got an offer he couldn't refuse.

    I'm all for making the NFL owners and officials look bad, so good for Kaep and Reid.
     
  10. DourDoerr

    DourDoerr Well-Known Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    His kneeling had a real impact and spurred a lot of discussion on a worthy topic. Should he try to keep that discussion alive by trying to play in the AAF? It'd be a hell of a pay cut, but he could afford it now and it might be worth the injury risk to continue the messaging. Also, if he plays well, it puts additional pressure on NFL to bring him in. Right now, they can default to "he hasn't played in years - how could he help?" Also, would silence the yoyo's who think he doesn't want to play but just wants a payout.
     
  11. axx

    axx lurker

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    Actually there was talk this morning about someone from an AAF club reached out and Kaep kind of blew them off. I am guessing that as part of the agreement that Kaep agreed to retire and basically go away in general. Given how rough football is I doubt he's anywhere near playing shape.

    There might have been an angle by the League that Kaep wanted to start (and more importantly wanted starter's money) but he would have to have taken a backup job.
     
  12. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    I wonder if that amount was then lessened by what he would’ve earned playing in a different league.
     
  13. Tyrone Biggums

    Tyrone Biggums nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion SoSH Member

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    Amazing day for America. Especially those fighting the good fight against 45 and social injustice. Hopefully Kaepernick gives a lot of his money to these causes that he championed. Now that this is finally over I'm hoping some team gives him the contract and the starting job that he rightfully deserves.
     
  14. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Why does he "deserve" a starting job in the NFL?
     
  15. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Have you seen the bottom third of QBs in the league? Nevermind the backups?

    I'm not saying Kaepernick would easily waltz into being his 2012 self again, but he's a far better bet to be useful than, say, Mark Sanchez.
     
  16. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    I totally agree that he's more than qualified to be an NFL backup. But a starter? I grant the possibility, but DeJesus asserts it as if it's objective fact. His 2012 self was...7 years ago (by the time 2019 starts). His career passer rating is 88.9, which would put him 27th in the NFL this year, with the only guys behind him being guys with a track record of success (Alex Smith and Joe Flacco), a guy who very recently had a good year (Case Keenum), three rookies with promise (Darnold, Allen, and Rosen), and of course, the immortal Blake Bortles, who, while he kind of stinks, did manage to get to the AFC Championship game last year.

    So maybe Kaepernick could start in the NFL in 2019. Maybe. But to assert it as if it's objective and obviously the case seems to me to be quite the stretch.
     
  17. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    It should be noted that it’s Tyrone Biggums and not beloved forum member Dejesus Built My Hotrod.
     
  18. JayMags71

    JayMags71 Member SoSH Member

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    I agree with you, but that raises the question what would such a law look like? How do you determine what’s “in the public interest”?
     
  19. Freddy Linn

    Freddy Linn Member SoSH Member

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    I think it’s noteworthy that if you rank active QBs with over 1500 attempts by career passer rating, CK would be #12.
     
  20. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Oh yes my bad. Apologies Dejesus!
     
  21. jose melendez

    jose melendez Earl of Acie Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I’m actually kind of dissapointed in him. I thought he was suing to shine a light. Maybe he thought he could do more good with the money, but I think having this public would have done some real good.
     
  22. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The blacklisting of him didn't start in 2019.
     
  23. DourDoerr

    DourDoerr Well-Known Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Well, then that sounds like it's the NFL or bust. Not that I'd blame him as the NFL facilities must be like Disneyland for athletes, but he's going to disappear fast if he doesn't play. Maybe he has a 2nd act that doesn't involve football and just wants to get on with it.
     
  24. nattysez

    nattysez Member SoSH Member

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    Bob McNair remained in good standing with the NFL after calling the players on his team "inmates." Roger Goodell suspended one of the biggest stars in the league for something that had at best questionable impact on the game (if Brady did it at all). The NFL's record with regard to hiring GMs and coaches of color shocks the conscience. The idea that exposing the NFL owners as a bunch of rich, racist assholes would change anything is belied by all evidence.

    However, taking $60m of their money and using a significant portion of it to uplift your community -- that's all but guaranteed to cause some meaningful change.
     
    #724 nattysez, Feb 16, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  25. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    I never suggested it did. 2019 is the next season he could play. Three full years removed from his previous season in the league (2016).
     
  26. singaporesoxfan

    singaporesoxfan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    No he was kneeling to shine a light. He was suing for the lost wages he deserved for being blackballed. As @nattysez said, what would confirming that there was collusion and that racism might have played a role in it actually have achieved? Sunlight may be the best disinfectant, but it doesn’t mean everything can be disinfected.
     
  27. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

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    I kind of buy that McNair was talking about Troy Vincent and NFL staff with that comment and not the players.
     
  28. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Given that the AAF is trying to establish itself as a feeder league, if the NFL won't sign him, he won't go there.

    The XFL might be a possibility if Vince McMahon isn't still up Trump's ass. But I'd doubt it given his wife is a Trump appointee. It would generate a lot of interest for the league if he did though. And a lot of times money talks for Vince.
     
  29. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    This is such an unfair take.
     
  30. reggiecleveland

    reggiecleveland sublime Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    No kidding. He made it the NFL and was as good as he was because he loved to play and competition burned inside him. He not only lost money, but the chance to do what he loved. The fact they paid anything shows the NFL, nondisclosure or not, is admitting wrongdoing.
     
  31. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The point was that the calculation of damages wouldn't be based just on his QB standing for this upcoming season: it's based on the time he missed.

    I agree that he wouldn't necessarily be able to come back and start now.
     
  32. nattysez

    nattysez Member SoSH Member

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    Not sure that I buy this, but interesting nonetheless:

     
  33. axx

    axx lurker

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    I doubt he is in football shape but if he was serious about playing another position (now that he got paid) the Patriots would make sense in a vacuum.
     
  34. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    Belichick’s favorite restaurant plays the anthem every noon. But I have no idea what he thinks about social justice issues. They seem like they would be strange bedfellows, but BB probably would view it solely as a football decision.

    Add me to the list that doesn’t agree with Jose’s thought. Kaep has walked the walk when it comes to having principles. The dollars wont make him whole for the price he paid for his principles.
     
    #734 DennyDoyle'sBoil, Feb 16, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  35. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    One thought that occurs to me is that maybe coming back to the NFL was part of his deal. And maybe Kraft is stepping up to do the league a solid.
    Another way Kaepernick stands out statistically is this:

    NFL career leaders in passer interception percentage
    1. Aaron Rodgers, 2005-2018: 1.5%
    2T. Tom Brady, 2000-2018: 1.8%
    2T. Colin Kaepernick, 2011-2016: 1.8%
     
  36. Mystic Merlin

    Mystic Merlin Member SoSH Member

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    I would personally enjoy the exasperated outrage that would emanate from some corners of the fan base, and even other teams’ fan bases, if Kaepernick was on the Pats’ depth chart.

    Anyways, if Bill and Caserio think he can offer something then Kraft won’t stand in their way. Carrying three QB is a bit tough, but they’ve done it before.
     
  37. cornwalls@6

    cornwalls@6 Member SoSH Member

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    Despite some earlier false start reporting to the contrary, it appears CK did not agree to a permanent separation clause, and is free to continue to pursue a job in the NFL. Echoing others above, I'd love to see him land in New England. He'd be an immediate upgrade over Hoyer, and I would love to see Kraft and BB make the FU statement to the league, and Trump. And it would be a good, and just thing to do. I don't think this organization would have any trouble managing whatever short/medium term "distraction" that would come along with signing him.

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/16/geragos-kaepernick-absolutely-wants-to-play/
     
  38. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    Brian Hoyer has been in the NFL for the last two years. In the rooms, training, learning etc. Kaep has not but, as a back end QB in the league who got benched for Gabbert, he has somehow gotten significantly better over that time period without playing a down. People are delusional over his current abilities.
     
  39. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Kap's abilities require a certain offensive system to maximize the value you get out of him. The Patriots do not run that system. The Patriots' system requires a lot of experience with it to run it well; Kap does not have any of that experience. Has never even run Erhardt-Perkins. I actually think Hoyer is a better fit for the Patriots today, as a backup.

    If however god forbid Brady's arm or knee gets turned to hamburger, I wouldn't rule out them re-tooling the way they do things to take advantage of an under-priced asset in the market.
     
  40. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Yeah we're talking about two different things then. I'm not talking about the legal stuff or financial damages. I'm talking about a team signing him to start (or play) for them in 2019.
     
  41. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    And then Gabbert got benched for Kaepernick, who started the final 11 games that year. And Gabbert is still in the league, still starting games.

    Some of the fixation on 2012 Kaepernick or his TD / INT ratio in 2016 (when the rest of his numbers were awful) is misguided, but he was still a top, I dunno, 25-45 QB when we last saw him, with the potential to be more in a better environment (let's be real: those Niners were an absolute organizational tire fire). The Pats wouldn't be signing him to start. They might not even be signing him to back up. But Brady's not going to play forever, Hoyer isn't a long-term answer, and we've seen teams turn "extra" QBs into assets in the preseason (like NYJ did with Bridgewater last year). I'm skeptical they can find a financial compromise that reflects his uncertainty to make the Patriots and his upside to be a starter elsewhere, however.
     
  42. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    There is no reason to play in the AAF when he'll be signed by an NFL team within a matter of months or maybe even weeks. The team that keeps coming up is Carolina which is where Reid landed. It pains me to read the ignorant social media posts about Kaep not believing in his cause by settling......freakin idiots. This lawsuit has ZERO to do with the cause and all to do with the NFL owners colluding to keep him out of the league which any reasonable person could recognize occurred. This country is filled with way too many people who don't fall under that "reasonable" tag....but I digress...….by settling now it also opens the door for Kaep to be signed by a team asap to go through their offseason program and a full camp. Had this went to trial that would never have occurred this year and he'd be missing 3 seasons instead of 2.

    This is more garbage that continues to be repeated. Kaep wasn't "benched for Gabbert"...….he was playing injured then was shutdown/replaced for the purpose of having shoulder surgery. Gabbert also didn't "beat out Kaep" in training camp the following year as Kaep was recovering from said surgery and not yet cleared to play. Once Kaep was cleared to play he took over as the QB and had a relatively good year under the dire circumstances of playing on such an awful team. Even his decision making seemed to improve with a 17/4 TD/INT ratio after he returned from the injury.

    Nobody is claiming that Kaep is the second coming but he clearly was a starting NFL caliber QB when he was blackballed and the settlement number that the NFL agreed upon reflects the FA contracts that similar level QB's signed prior to damages being tacked on. The more I think about it the more that Carolina makes so much sense for him and his career.
     
    #742 HomeRunBaker, Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  43. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    As long as we are thinking about Hoyer and how Kaepernick might fit on the Pats, a couple of other data points:

    • With the Niners, Kaepernick was better in his 11 starts in 2016 than Hoyer was in his 6 starts the following year. Kaepernick was also better than his competition (Gabbert) while Hoyer was about equal to one other guy who played with the Niners (Beathard) and worse than the other (Garoppolo)
    • I don't think there is any arguing the general idea that Hoyer is a better fit in the Pats' system, but that only goes so far. The gap between Hoyer and Kaepernick, while there, is likely far narrower than the gap between Garoppolo and rookie Jacoby Brissett, but they managed, even as Brissett played with an injured thumb that would land him on IR.
    On the financial side, I wouldn't be shocked if that is somewhat covered in Kaepernick's settlement with the NFL. Time out of the game will be an issue for him no matter where he goes.

    I don't really expect him to sign with NE, but unless the Pats invest a high draft pick in a QB of the future type, I'd be thrilled to have him on board as a #3.
     
  44. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    I was surprised to see NE's name come up since BB has traditionally had pocket type backups to Brady over the years to best fit the current system should he be forced to get snaps. Cassel, Mallett, Jimmy G, Huard, and Hoyer. I'm guessing he wants to sign in a place where he has the best chance to get some game action prior to hitting the FA market for a starting gig the following spring. The obvious match with Carolina is Reid and also Newton's health which may give him some opportunities. One thing this settlement certainly does is eliminate the Kesslers, Driskels, and Petermans of the world to have jobs which he doesn't receive an offer again.

    You have to account for how awful his offensive personnel was that season though too. Jeremy Kerley was forced to be targeted 115x that season......he's been targeted 31x the last two years combined elsewhere.
     
    #744 HomeRunBaker, Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  45. DavidTai

    DavidTai Member SoSH Member

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    What about playing a role similar to Taysom Hill in NO?
     
  46. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    Not that I have any problem with him and the owners being killed over that statement, but I think I agree.

    As for CK on the Pats, I wouldn't be surprised or shocked either -- yes he hasn't played since 2016 but he was very good that year. But I wouldn't dump Hoyer for him -- as he showed in the run up to the SB, he's valuable to the planning process and having played on a number of squads over the years clearly can bring an institutional knowledge of offensive systems to the table.
     
  47. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Dear god no...
     
  48. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    Kaep was cleared to play in 2016 and dressed in the five games Gabbert started. He never showed up on the injury report any week in 2016 and lost the camp competition to Gabbert largely because Gabbert had a decent end of 2015 and Kaep missed two weeks in August with arm fatigue.

    I never claimed anyone is saying that he is a second coming. I don’t believe, however, he’s automatically better than Brian Hoyer given he hasn’t stepped in an NFL facility or practiced against NFL competition for two years. Which counts for something.
     
  49. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Again, this isn't what actually happened. Kaep missed all of spring and summer team workouts. He was cleared for individual work as training camp began and wasn't ready at the start of preseason games.....Chip Kelly acknowledged that Kaep wasn't at 100% so he wasn't going to play in these games until he was. The team wasn't going anywhere so it didn't make sense to rush back an injured QB until he was healthy. This was all documented at the time.

    Hoyer is pretty bad but not "that" bad in McDaniels offense where he certainly would be a better "fit" than Kaep but he was REALLY terrible for SF in 2017 after Kaep was the far better QB with the same flawed personnel a year earlier.
     
  50. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    I just think it's a hard needle to thread financially. The Pats aren't going to want to pay Kaepernick $5 MM (which is what Bridgewater got) to be the #3, and Kaepernick isn't going to want to play for the veteran minimum (which is more than Danny Etling will make). The fairest thing would be having a low salary and guarantees and a healthy roster bonus that would compensate Kaep more the more he plays, but that provides a financial disincentive to playing him more, which isn't conducive to carving out a role as a starter. He makes more sense in a place that has more cap room and / or gives a clearer path to playing time.

    Belichick has flirted with mobile guys a little bit. There was Flutie, Tebow, Kevin O'Connell (who ran a 4.61), and he carried Michael Bishop for a year even though he didn't draft him. Garoppolo and Cassel were both West-Coast-type mobile; they weren't going to run 40-yards but you could do all the rollouts and bootlegs with them. Brissett was sort of early-career Big-Ben-y in his ability to make plays with his legs / outside of structure without being fast. The way Belichick defends mobile QBs, it's pretty clear he's aware of the unique challenges they pose to a defense.

    Agreed ... that's what I was getting at with the "potential to be more in a better environment" note. In hindsight, Kaepernick was probably not as good as he looked in 2012-2013 surrounded by an excellent supporting cast, but also not as bad as he looked in 2015-2016 surrounded by crap. It is amazing how quickly that franchise slid downhill. One reason I will never take Robert Kraft for granted.
     

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