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The Nation's Tears: Volume III

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by rsmith7, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    57,840
  2. Average Game James

    Average Game James Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    That’s funny. I always appreciate guys who can make light of things like that. Still love the Mo Rivera hat tip to the Fenway crowd in ‘05...
     
  3. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Why isn't there a poster named Ryan Stork's Head Bob?
     
  4. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    And one was after the BS call on the field goal. The other was when BB kicked off in OT by choice
     
  5. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

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    Was that then they got flagged for jumping over the center?

    I completely forgot about when BB kicked. That was a real hoot.
     
  6. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    No, I think it was for engaging the center?

    Nope.

    Folk was wide left on a 56-yarder, but the miss was negated when New England's Chris Jones was called for unsportsmanlike conduct on a 15-yard penalty that never had before been called in an NFL game.

    Referee Jerome Boger explained in a pool report that Jones was called for pushing his teammate "into the opponents' formation." Umpire Tony Michalek threw his flag "almost instantaneously as he observed the action," Boger said. "We just enforced it as he called it."

    Belichick disagreed with the application of the rule.

    "You can't push in the second level," Belichick said. "I didn't think we did that."
     
  7. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

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    Yep, I remember that now. It wasn't jumping over, which they got called or later (was it Collins?) who didn't make contact? But the pushing thing. Was that ever called again?

    All this goes to show you is THE PATS GET ALL THE CALLS.

    Just like when Brady got called for grounding twice on calls no one has ever been called for grounding on, in pretty big games if I remember.
     
  8. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Game in Seattle in 2012 wasn't a "big game". XLVI was kind of a big game.
     
  9. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    I was thinking about the grounding calls Sunday night. There was one play where Goff was about to be hit in the end zone and he threw the ball way out of bounds; no call. The two calls against Brady were correct by the rule, but I do think Goff could have been penalized there under the same standard.
     
  10. steveluck7

    steveluck7 Member SoSH Member

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    There was a receiver right there though. The ref pointed to him right away
     
  11. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

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    Disagree, that game launched one of the biggest Internet meme's with U Mad Bro?

    Does anyone have a video of that throw? i can't find it after looking but I can't remember any other QB ever getting called for throwing it out of the back of the end zone.

    The second Giants Super Bowl one was definitely letter of the law but I still can't believe they called it.
     
  12. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    KurtTheJetsFan is holding onto the memory of the 2010 playoff win vs the Patriots like grim death, that's all he's got.
     
  13. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Edit: 2:54 mark is the play
     
  14. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    The Patriots sooooo outplayed Seattle in that game. Two major items really cost them:

    1. The grounding penalty. Technically correct I guess. But I've never before or since seen that call made. Cost them three points.

    2. Brady's interception deep in Seattle territory. Again, even just an incompletion there (or a completion short of the goal line) and it's three points for the Pats.

    Ugh. Oh well.
     
  15. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Yeah. Didn't cost them though as they hosted the AFCCG
     
  16. simplyeric

    simplyeric aggressively nonsensical SoSH Member

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    The thing he doesn't get is, that by his logic the Patriots are evil, right? So essentially, they are starting as "Bizarro", and green kryptonite help Bill Beli... er, Bizarro.
     
  17. Dollar

    Dollar Member SoSH Member

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    Is there really a ten-second runoff in that situation? I thought that was only when the clock would have kept running without the flag.
     
  18. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Grounding is to avoid a sack which would have run the clock... so yes
     
  19. Dollar

    Dollar Member SoSH Member

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    Ah, right. Makes sense.
     
  20. Pesky Pole

    Pesky Pole Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Oh no. It’s 24-14 headed to the 4th and the Seahawks are killing us on NFLN. I can’t see a way we escape this one.
     
  21. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

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    It's 24-21 now, As long as they dont have some sort of Tyree miracle catch we should be fine.

    Can Flores please cut Amendola?
     
  22. Pesky Pole

    Pesky Pole Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This game almost killed me live but it’s way enjoyable this time. Lynch catches a wheel route, c’mon!
     
  23. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    Do the same Steelers fans who think Patriots titles are illegitimate because the opponents made mistakes (a thing that happens in every football game ever) also complain that one of their own 6 was aided by the worst Super Bowl officiating of the era?
     
  24. rodderick

    rodderick Member SoSH Member

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    And on the most recent one Santonio Holmes' right foot wasn't down.
     
  25. Old Fart Tree

    Old Fart Tree the maven of meat Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    “Hard to give a shit when the two best teams in the NFL - PIT and NO - were both fucked outta here by the refs”


    Wait what? PIT didn’t make the damn playoffs dood
     
  26. brandonchristensen

    brandonchristensen mad photochops SoSH Member

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    Yeah, because of the refs.
     
  27. Adrian's Dome

    Adrian's Dome Member SoSH Member

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    The Saints c-h-o-k-e-d.

    They got the ball in overtime, were handed a clear opportunity to close the game out, and Brees gagged it up.
     
  28. staz

    staz Intangible Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Welcome to the US of A.
     
  29. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    I can't even think about that game rationally. That decision and the Butler benching are literally the only two decisions that BB has made in 20 years that have literally left me hating him for a period of time. That's hard to do. Any other coach, no matter how good, over 20 years, I'd probably hate them thousands of times.

    The Patriots win that game (or any of the other 3 they lost in the last 6 weeks of 2015), they get home field advantage in the playoffs. Both them and Denver finished tied at 12-4, but because Denver beat them (in Denver), they had to go back to Denver for the AFCCG and they lost 20-18, and then Denver wins the SB against Carolina 24-10.

    I'll never forget the folks who argued that it was an ok decision to kickoff. Until I die, I will never, EVER concede that there is a situation where it makes sense to kick off unless you have literally the greatest defense in the history of the game, and an offense the needs all the help it can get with field position (or equally as rare, you have like 50mph winds blowing in from one direction, making it almost impossible to move the ball). When you have Tom Brady at QB, that is never, ever going to be the case, so you take the ball, you go down the field and you score, just like Brady has done all 3 times he's received the opening kick in overtime in the playoffs. God, that decision makes me insane. If they take the ball there, and go down and score, the Pats win that game, get home field, beat Manning in Foxboro like they always did and then they spank Carolina.
     
  30. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    I will always hate him for passing up a ~50 yard field goal in XLII for a 4th and 13, as well as the gameplan in the season finale in Miami in 2015.

    One thing I won't ever hold against him is the mortar kick.
     
  31. Marbleheader

    Marbleheader Dope Dope

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    Chris Collinsworth tried really hard to ruin that Super Bowl. My God is he insufferable. Final two minutes of a close Super Bowl and he feels the need to talk about Ted Wells. Laughing with glee at the Kearse catch. Multiple Tyree references. Takes him 7 or 8 replays of Butler's pick to give him any credit for making the play.
     
  32. SemperFidelisSox

    SemperFidelisSox suzyn SoSH Member

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  33. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    It doesn't even make any sense why he would hate the Patriots, other than they thoroughly kicked his ass every time they lined up. But his Colts weren't even competitive with the Pats. He should hate Bruce Arians for being a better coach.
     
  34. pedro1918

    pedro1918 Member SoSH Member

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    I love how the Indy Star identifies the next Super Bowl:

    That's some fine editing.
     
  35. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    In fairness, the editor was Greek.
     
  36. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Fuck next year's Super Bowl is in Miami? FUCK
     
  37. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Not sure if this is the right thread for this (or Celebrating What Is, or P&G even), but I stumbled across this while digging a bunch of awesome post-Super Bowl videos on YouTube.

    The question of the racial makeup of the Patriots. Is it a real thing? Is it a real issue? I don't want to make something out of nothing, if nothing is indeed there. But when a national broadcast is discussing it, does that mean there's any merit to this?

    Whitlock (the host) talks about how for years the Pats have been well below the league average in terms of black players. It is apparent that he sees that as a problem. (I mean in any sample, it will likely look like a bell curve and SOMEONE is going to be on the lower end of any sample.) But if the Patriots just win win win win win, WHY is it a problem? I guess I admit to being a little naive here. What is going on with this? Is this just more whining because they keep winning? Is this something that the Patriots actually should care about?

     
  38. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    I'm only 4 minutes in but so far no one has said it has to do with race. Going to keep watching though.

    Edit: I didn't hear of anyone who hated on the Packers because of Aaron Rodgers and Jordy Nelson
     
  39. BernieRicoBoomer

    BernieRicoBoomer Member SoSH Member

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    542
    The only logical way to improve this dynasty would be to cap off a 19-0 for real in Miami. I promise to be satisfied then...
     
  40. CaptainLaddie

    CaptainLaddie dj paul pfieffer SoSH Member

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    Hello!

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...ick-explains-why-patriots-took-wind-in-ot-win
    http://www.espn.com/nfl/game?gameId=331124017
     
  41. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    8,662
    There was something right before the Atlanta Super Bowl, I think Bomani Jones said it but it may have been someone else, that brought up how the Patriots were the team for white people; with the line I believe being "The Patriots have wide receivers named Julian and Danny, the Falcons of receivers named Julio and Mohammed."

    I think part of it is that a disproportionate amount of the Patriots' star players happen to be white; the Patriot's QB, top two WRs and TE are all white and I'm not sure if another team in that league has that many white players as their "star" offensive players. Of course, any team in the league would want Brady/Edelman/Gronk playing for them, so the idea that the Patriots are giving a special opportunity to white players at the expense of more deserving black players is silly. Just like it was dumb to hate on the 80s Celtics because there two best players were white when in reality any NBA team would have killed to have a duo as good as Bird and McHale. When people hate something they want to justify it; so leaning into "Bill Belichick and the Patriots might be racist" is as good of a path as any for some people.
     
  42. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah the race thing is a scorching-hot take. I would guess if you actually dug into the numbers that the real difference between the Patriots and other teams is completely insignificant and—because of the relatively small numbers we're talking about—easily skewed by having at least two white WRs on the roster in many years, and are generally a team that maintains a lot of continuity. Not that these guys are even basing their arguments on the actual numbers.

    More than the specific numbers, though, is that it's utterly laughable to think that Bill Belichick would prefer a white player over a black player even if the latter gave him a better chance of winning.
     
  43. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    I honestly think this is the first time I ever knew the Pats deferred in that game. I was there, so we don't usually know who wins the coin toss and who loses. We just see the refs put the players on their end and motion who is receiving, and we probably just assumed the Pats lost the toss. Given that it went a few more possessions, seems like it wasn't as big of a story.

    That said, I did say wind was potentially one of the rare exceptions where it would make sense. I can't remember just how bad the wind was that day, but I know there have been some games in the new stadium where you literally couldn't throw the ball into the teeth of it, never mind kick into it. I still hate the decision 99 times out of a 100, and in that Jets game, there was no wind argument that I can remember. It was just a bad, bad decision.
     
  44. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

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    4,610
    Might also be based on the perception that Boston is a racist city (which it is, but it's a city in America. So, of course it is.)
     
  45. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    What is interesting is that the offense really didn't have any white skill position players up until 2007. It was Troy Brown, Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk, Corey Dillon, Deion Branch, David Givens, Dan Graham, Ben Watson, etc. On D they did have some white standouts in Bruschi and Vrabel.

    Flip to the present and basically the entire starting D is black, but they have a few prominent white stars on offense in Gronk and Edelman, and previously Welker and Dola.

    So I guess it's mostly that they have always had a couple of non-Brady white stars, which skews perception.
     
  46. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    They kicked off to near-peak Peyton Manning in OT by choice - and won. So I can see why he would do it again against a far worse QB.
     
  47. simplyeric

    simplyeric aggressively nonsensical SoSH Member

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    Isn't it potentially evidence of the opposite? I feel like there was a thing a while back about how unusual it was to have white WR's, or maybe it was RB's? The idea was that GM's/coaches were biased against really skilled players who were white. Not in a major "I hate white people" way" but in a subconsciously racist way that assumed that black players were more "athletic" (same logic that led them to think that white QB's were better/smarter/whatever). BB is always looking for the market inefficiency, trying to acquire undervalued assets. So, BB was acquiring ever-so-slightly undervalued players who were undervalued because they were white.

    I think I read that somewhere...not sure if it was a post here or a hot-take (or a dumb hot-take that was logically refuted here).
     
    #347 simplyeric, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  48. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    No, no, no. I won't let anyone do it. There was no reasonable explanation as to why they did it in that Jets game, with the #1 seed on the line. BB said the reason he did in 2013 was because of the wind. That wasn't the case in 2015. And let's not act like Ryan Fitzpatrick and the Jets were some crap team that we were beating up over and over again. Fitzpatrick threw for almost 600 yards, 5td's/0ints against us in 2 games that year, including 296/3td's in the game we kicked off (he had 74 yards and a td, and the Jets scored in 6 plays in overtime). We couldn't stop him that year, and every time we played the Jets during those years, it was a nailbiter. From 2013-2015, these were the scores of their games:

    Pats W: 13-10
    Jets W: 30-27
    Pats W: 27-25
    Pats W: 17-16
    Pats W: 30-23
    Jets W: 26-20

    The Pats actually blew out Manning and the Broncos more than they did the Jets during those seasons.

    It was a horrible decision in 2015. And it isn't hindsight bias. He overthought that one, and when the Pats lost in the AFCCG in Denver later on because of it, I hated him. Just like I did for the Butler benching. As good as BB has been, and he's been otherworldly good, I believe he made 2 coaching decisions that nobody else on Earth would have made, and they both potentially cost us Super Bowls.
     
  49. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    I'm not saying I agreed with him, I am saying I see why he made the decision, just how I saw (eventually) how he came to make the Butler decision.
     
  50. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

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    I honestly don't know how you got to your post from this clip. They were asking the question, yes, but not one of them concluded that at all. None of them criticized the Patriots for being underrepresented, either. In the openning, he mentioned they have 66% representation which is slightly lower than the 70% league average, but that the "blackest" team he can think of turned out to have 64%. Concluded that the Pats only look like they're a "white" team because a few of their highest profile players happen to be white. They all concluded that people hate the Pats because they win.

    So, based on your link, it would seem that no, it's not a thing, and it doesn't seem like anyone is claiming it is.
     

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