The Nation's Tears: Volume II

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snowmanny

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The weird thing about that Dez play (under the actual rules) is how the ref -standing right there -missed that the ball hit the ground and came loose. Or saw it and didn't know the rules. Ed: And the ref, who thought it was a catch, thought Bryant was down by contact at the 1/2 yard line.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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You guys are funny.

To a man, everyone here acknowledged the media would drive the conversation to the James non-catch. Yet here we, buying into the narrative because fans have something to latch onto against the lucky, scumbag Patriots.

It's not a catch. I'm enjoying the national self-immolation. Join me in reveling in their tears.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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You guys are funny.

To a man, everyone here acknowledged the media would drive the conversation to the James non-catch. Yet here we, buying into the narrative because fans have something to latch onto against the lucky, scumbag Patriots.

It's not a catch. I'm enjoying the national self-immolation. Join me in reveling in their tears.
Have you actually read the posts, KFP? I don't know anyone here saying it was a catch. Nor is anyone even saying it should be. But the question of the balance between catches and fumbles and what the rule could be if you wanted to change it is interesting and certainly doesn't mean anyone is buying into anyone else's narrative.

As for luck? The Patriots did get lucky in the Steelers game. And probably in the Jets game too. And, actually, in the Bucs game. Some of the luck was of their own making, and they capitalized on it for sure, but you can't count on a guy who is untouched dropping a ball inches from the end zone. The Panthers got lucky in their game against the Patriots, but so far we have nothing to complain about in the luck department this year.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Have you actually read the posts, KFP? I don't know anyone here saying it was a catch. Nor is anyone even saying it should be. But the question of the balance between catches and fumbles and what the rule could be if you wanted to change it is interesting and certainly doesn't mean anyone is buying into anyone else's narrative.

As for luck? The Patriots did get lucky in the Steelers game. And probably in the Jets game too. And, actually, in the Bucs game. Some of the luck was of their own making, and they capitalized on it for sure, but you can't count on a guy who is untouched dropping a ball inches from the end zone. The Panthers got lucky in their game against the Patriots, but so far we have nothing to complain about in the luck department this year.
I'm not saying people here are calling it a catch. I'm saying people here are taking the bait even though they knew immediately when the game ended that this storyline was coming.
 

simplyeric

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I'm not saying people here are calling it a catch. I'm saying people here are taking the bait even though they knew immediately when the game ended that this storyline was coming.
Who would have thought that people on a sports messaging board would have taken the bait to...talk about sports.
I don't think people are up in arms. We're just discussing the sport. It's not much different than the rule change thread, and maybe the conversation should be there.

But it's true...this is the Nation's Tears thread. Anyone have any good salty tears for us? I need my electrolyte fix.
 

lexrageorge

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I'm not saying people here are calling it a catch. I'm saying people here are taking the bait even though they knew immediately when the game ended that this storyline was coming.
The catch rule has come up for discussion before, and it's definitely worthy of further dialog given the discussion generated so far.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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The tedium continues...

We're in a thread - the original which I proudly started after the Seahawks SB - made to wave our dicks at all the haters.

After the biggest win of the season, the number of dick waving posts are dwarfed 10:1 by posts crying how friends, coworkers, family, or media are being obtuse about the Patriots winning another big game.

People are missing the fucking point of the thread. It's not, "Wahhhh, people don't think the Patriots should have won." It's, "Bahahaha, people don't think the Patriots should have won!"

Get it? Christ. Why can't we all just sit on the fandom throne carved by Brady and Belichick, and Lord over the plebians? We're supposed to enjoy the tears. It's in the fucking title of the thread.
 
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DJnVa

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Yeah, maybe end the story about your coworker whining about the call with "And then I laughed at him, Gronk spiked the pic of his wife from his desk, then walked out."
 

Import78

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To get things back on track a bit: I gave tour of our facility yesterday. The guy walked in wearing a Falcons hat. I didn't bring up football, but he did. Complaining about the catch and griping about how the Pats shouldn't have won. Because I was working I kept it professional, but he was so salty that I couldn't help but interrupt his ranting with a few innocent sounding but knife twisting shots here and there. When I told him 'football move' wasn't part of the rule anymore he got quiet and changed the subject.

I don't generally take joy in other's sadness, but this guy was a tool so there was some significant schadenfreude.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I'm sure I'm not the only one, but pretty much any time a Patriot drills a field goal or makes a decent catch, DDB Jr. and I invariably say, "it's right down the pipe" and "that's a catch."

Back to salty tears, I work with a Steelers fan and pretty much he's never had a team have a big call go in its favor. (He's also a University of Arizona fan who was bellyaching yesterday about a goaltending call that went against them in a regular season game against Connecticut in 2001!)

Anyway, after the Steelers game, he said, "admit that if James was a running back, that would have been a touch down," to which I said, "yup, definitely." He then sat back, with a self satisfied grin. He's actually smart. I don't know if it's just football that makes you stupid or whether it's the Western PA in him rising up.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Pretty sure any Cardinals and Seahawks fans in here are going to take issue with this (unless this guy has only been a fan for like five minutes).
It's like talking to a brick wall. Santonio Holmes -- that call was "correct." Jay Williams not getting his second foul in some Arizona/Duke game over a decade ago? You can't talk to him.
 

Adrian's Dome

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I'm sure I'm not the only one, but pretty much any time a Patriot drills a field goal or makes a decent catch, DDB Jr. and I invariably say, "it's right down the pipe" and "that's a catch."

Back to salty tears, I work with a Steelers fan and pretty much he's never had a team have a big call go in its favor. (He's also a University of Arizona fan who was bellyaching yesterday about a goaltending call that went against them in a regular season game against Connecticut in 2001!)

Anyway, after the Steelers game, he said, "admit that if James was a running back, that would have been a touch down," to which I said, "yup, definitely." He then sat back, with a self satisfied grin. He's actually smart. I don't know if it's just football that makes you stupid or whether it's the Western PA in him rising up.
I think I've repeated "You. Have. To. Establish. Yourself. As. A. Runner. To. Score." at least 50x this week. Exactly in that manner.

And the response is always "...what?"

On the upside, that pic of James lying on the ground with a hand completely off the ball and the ball on the ground works absolute wonders for shutting up plebs on the Facebooks.
 

snowmanny

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A note from downtown Pittsburgh this week:


Liked this comment:


Tom Griffiths
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if it said "HONK IF YOU CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO STOP GRONK" Mike Tomlin would have to sit outside that building morning, noon and night laying on his horn.
 

grsharky7

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I think I've repeated "You. Have. To. Establish. Yourself. As. A. Runner. To. Score." at least 50x this week. Exactly in that manner.

And the response is always "...what?"

On the upside, that pic of James lying on the ground with a hand completely off the ball and the ball on the ground works absolute wonders for shutting up plebs on the Facebooks.
Thank you! I was at the game with my friend/co-worker who is a huge Steeler fan and we've gone back and forth all week about this. I've shown him pictures from all of the angles that show the ball on the ground, plus bringing up the fact that he had no completed the catch. I've heard from multiple people here that the ball broke the goal line and that means it is a touchdown. There is no amount of evidence or reason you can give that will satisfy them.

The other thing that must be said is that they had two more chances to win the game, plus 4th down to kick a FG to tie. They won't even acknowledge that aspect of the whole thing. I've asked Steeler fans several times that if that had happened to the Pats do you really think TB and BB wouldn't have had a plan for 2nd and 3rd down? That is the difference between these two teams, the Pats are always ready and proactive, the Steelers fumble around and are reactive.
 

Curt S Loew

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Rexy on Countdown.

"Everybody knows the rule. So, we all get it, the refs were doing their job. They called it, unfortunately. But......I just think it's a joke"

No, Rex. You're a joke.
 

DJnVa

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We've all seen the pic of the ball actually on the ground. If the player that dropped it was wearing a Patriots uniform the hue and cry would be exactly opposite.
 

Ed Hillel

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Reverend

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Why are the Patriots getting their official team photo in Tampa? At least get a ref photo from Gillette. That's just lazy.
It’s a tribute to how Bill poaches all the awesome but misunderstood players from other teams who Do Their Jobs even if other people can’t seem to grasp it.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Disagree, side angle seemed pretty clear. Too bad they showed it once and the back angle 7 times.
I agree. On one angle you could clearly determine when he had possession without question. At that point, the foot had come up. It’s just a really confusing review for most because there was no doubt the foot was once down.

So while the discussion is about the standard of review, and I agree its changed, the reality is Park Avenue felt that one shot was clear and they got the call right. The white noise in all this is the Peter King’s, etc., saying “there is nothing clear and convincing”. Well it was to the only guy that mattered. Riveron.
 

uk_sox_fan

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Disagree, side angle seemed pretty clear. Too bad they showed it once and the back angle 7 times.
Is that what it is? The game wasn't on over here in London so when I heard about the play I went to YouTube for the ultra slo-motion replays. One angle looked ambiguous but the side angle clearly showed the toe never touching down in the green of the end zone. Some dirt came up which seemed confusing until you go back to the first angle and see that it's the right foot foot that causes that.

I just think people just want to believe in conspiracy theories. In my opinion the only sport that that can happen is International Football and that's because of the corruption in FIFA which is well-documented. But even there I think 99% of the time that people think they see corruption it's either homerism, an honest bad call or just a 50-50 play that goes against one side.
 

dcmissle

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I agree. On one angle you could clearly determine when he had possession without question. At that point, the foot had come up. It’s just a really confusing review for most because there was no doubt the foot was once down.

So while the discussion is about the standard of review, and I agree its changed, the reality is Park Avenue felt that one shot was clear and they got the call right. The white noise in all this is the Peter King’s, etc., saying “there is nothing clear and convincing”. Well it was to the only guy that mattered. Riveron.
I can live with this. I’m happy you agree that the standard of review has changed. One has to be willfully ignorant to argue otherwise. That + super slo mo review will bring unending misery. It’s only a matter of time before we get burned by this, along with everybody else.
 

Ed Hillel

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I can live with this. I’m happy you agree that the standard of review has changed. One has to be willfully ignorant to argue otherwise. That + super slo mo review will bring unending misery. It’s only a matter of time before we get burned by this, along with everybody else.
Where did he say the standard has changed? The replay rules were changed last year about who actually reviews the play, but the standard is the same. The side view was clear.
 

dcmissle

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Where did he say the standard has changed? The replay rules were changed last year about who actually reviews the play, but the standard is the same. The side view was clear.
He said it in the very first sentence of his second paragraph. It’s undeniable. The guys in NY are giving no deference to the call on the field.
 

Ed Hillel

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He said it in the very first sentence of his second paragraph. It’s undeniable. The guys in NY are giving no deference to the call on the field.
Ah yes. But I disagree, the call looked clear on the side replay. His foot was off the ground after the possession. Did you see that angle?
 
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dcmissle

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I’ve noted before my aesthetic problem with NY interjecting uncertainty into every noteworthy play with the all powerful slo mo at his disposal. That’s stylistic — how do you like your games? — and people can reasonably disagree.

But I also find it penny-wise, pound-foolish when rooting for a team almost wholly reliant on a passing attack, with a flaccid running game and a defense perpetually on life support. Eventually, we’re going to get torched in a big spot. It’s only a matter of time.
 

simplyeric

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I thought the 4th Down overturn on Lewis’ run was a more egregious overturn. I did not think he definitively got the ball to the first down marker.
Huh. I def thought that the Lewis play was way less ambiguous. I was sure they would overturn that call. I was surprised that they overturned the TD call later on (I think overturning was the 'correct' call, but I thought there was sufficient cover for the refs to leave it as a TD).
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory

LeSean McCoy on the overturned TD: “They always seem to get it right for the Patriots. It’s just crazy, because we put so much into it, to get robbed like that. Come on, that was a touchdown. But it is what it is.”
 

uncannymanny

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I’m in Buffalo metro with my dad’s family. I had to live through the Kelly/Thomas era growing up (I was in Rich for the Smith hit on Bledsoe in his first season that you still see on NFL Films promos). The last nearly-two decades still hasn’t gotten old. Showing up to my cousin’s big Christmas Eve dinner tonight was. Fucking. Sweet.
 

dcmissle

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LeSean McCoy on the overturned TD: “They always seem to get it right for the Patriots. It’s just crazy, because we put so much into it, to get robbed like that. Come on, that was a touchdown. But it is what it is.”
Shady — your coach came up small electing the FG on 4th and 1. And you got blown out the second half. Deal with it.
 

The Needler

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I’ve noted before my aesthetic problem with NY interjecting uncertainty into every noteworthy play with the all powerful slo mo at his disposal. That’s stylistic — how do you like your games? — and people can reasonably disagree.

But I also find it penny-wise, pound-foolish when rooting for a team almost wholly reliant on a passing attack, with a flaccid running game and a defense perpetually on life support. Eventually, we’re going to get torched in a big spot. It’s only a matter of time.
What team with a flaccid running game do you root for?
 

soxhop411

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I’ve noted before my aesthetic problem with NY interjecting uncertainty into every noteworthy play with the all powerful slo mo at his disposal. That’s stylistic — how do you like your games? — and people can reasonably disagree.

But I also find it penny-wise, pound-foolish when rooting for a team almost wholly reliant on a passing attack, with a flaccid running game and a defense perpetually on life support. Eventually, we’re going to get torched in a big spot. It’s only a matter of time.

If you are referring to NY having the decision power on replay calls I disagree.

I think every sport now has a centralized replay system (nhl=TOR, Mlb=NY, NFL=NY)

I prefer it that way, some officials are adamant that the original call they made is correct and no replay will change it (hello certain umpires in Mlb).

This way an impartial official has say.
 
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