Packers got totally screwed on a similar play when Marty was flagged for a pick even though he was clearly within a yard of the line of scrimmage.
They should've had Brady plead their case.
They should've had Brady plead their case.
The Nation's Tears: Volume II
- Thread starter jmcc5400
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We really need a Broncos schadenfreude thread.
"It's just sad. It's just real sad. It's sad we went from a championship-caliber team to a team that stinks and nobody respects us."
- Broncos defensive end Derek Wolfe
Sweet, sweet music.
"It's just sad. It's just real sad. It's sad we went from a championship-caliber team to a team that stinks and nobody respects us."
- Broncos defensive end Derek Wolfe
Sweet, sweet music.
Seems like Al Michaels and Cris Collinsworth are also broken. I watched the replay of the game last night (hard to watch live as the games are generally in the middle of my work day), and was struck by the differences between their observations and enthusiasm for the Pats vs the Broncos respective successful plays. Every Bronco success was due to individual brilliance where the player (usually Emmanuel Sanders) flat out beat the opponent, whereas whenever the Pats succeeded it was due to the coaches' schemes. Paraprhasing, but it came out something like "The Patriots coaches Bill Belichick, Josh McDaniels, etc. are so good at targeting your weaknesses, the Broncos never had a chance."
The game got out of hand early, and they were so melancholy the second half was delivered in the announcer's equivalent of a monotone.
Watching the replay of the 103 yard touchdown return by DLew reminded me just now. Al Michaels on that play could not have been more disinterested if he tried.
The game got out of hand early, and they were so melancholy the second half was delivered in the announcer's equivalent of a monotone.
Watching the replay of the 103 yard touchdown return by DLew reminded me just now. Al Michaels on that play could not have been more disinterested if he tried.
Yeah, that'll be a big theme in the playoffs (assuming they make it, of course): can someone just beat them so we don't have to hear/think about them? Outside of some obvious quarters, I think we've moved from the hatred/resentment phase to grudging respect/boredom phase of the Pats dynasty.
Not sure I agree with this assessment.
They praised Brady all night. Burkhead got plenty of attention. They talked about Cooks, Bennett, Gronk, Gilmore, Butler etc. yes, they spoke about McDaniels and BB and Scar, but they can’t really do that for Denver since their head coach is basically a Caldwell2.0 in lack of even facial expression and their coordinators are unproven. And Sanders had a friggin fantastic game, he should get attention for it.
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I think whining about game announcers rooting against the home laundry is (almost always) lame. To the extent they ever root, announcers are rooting for stories to make their job more fun/interesting/compelling. That can often mean hoping the underdog keeps a game close. Hate Dan Fouts for being an idiot, hate Nantz for being a bland company man, hate Gruden for being mindless... but they're really not rooting against the Patriots.
Now the network pundits are another story -- they're paid to be provocative and can be the story. Ladainian Tomlinson's explanation last night on NFLN of why the Steelers have to be favored in the AFC was appalling. ["They have Big Ben, and maybe he hasn't been very good this year but I think he's going to get better!" "The Patriots haven't beaten anybody good."] Deion completely called him out on it.
Now the network pundits are another story -- they're paid to be provocative and can be the story. Ladainian Tomlinson's explanation last night on NFLN of why the Steelers have to be favored in the AFC was appalling. ["They have Big Ben, and maybe he hasn't been very good this year but I think he's going to get better!" "The Patriots haven't beaten anybody good."] Deion completely called him out on it.
So totally broken. I listened to Denver sports talk radio for a while today (I live in Denver and have to listen to Bronco fans constantly) and not only were they going on and on about how bad their coaching/players looked, they kept pivoting to how much better this would all have been handled in New England. They must have spent an hour talking about how much the Pats are the ideal way to run an organization and all of the ways that they are not the Pats. It was a fun listen.
We used to say things like “I want to do nasty things to this post” but instead, I’m the spirit of the hopefully newly enlightened times, I will say that I would like to take this post out to a romantic dinner, engage in fascinating conversation with it, then take it home and make sweet love to it.
Nothing bores me more than posts about how much announcer X hates our team. Joe Buck, Tim McC, Joe Morgan, Cris C, etc, etc.
I would like to make sweet love to this post as well. Nothing litters a game thread worse than those accusing announcers of bias. They are almost always rooting for a close contest to make their broadcast more entertaining and therefore more marketable. I know we are the insecure fan base but not everyone is out to get us.
"all would have been handled", as in coach and quarterback selection? Something else?
I live in the SF Bay Area, caught a few minutes of 49er talk yesterday and one guy says maybe they can trade Jimmy G. for draft picks now since C.J. Beathard had such a good game Sunday (vs. the NY Disasters, Giants variety in this case).
As in, they would have benched/cut the punt returner a long time ago, they never would have just hired a bunch of coordinators as coaches, they never would end up in the type of QB situation, they would have fired the special teams coach by now, etc. It was really like they had given up and just capitulated that all of their problems would not exist if they were run like NE.
Thanks for the explanation. So, Elway's not quite the golden boy exec any more, or at least for right now.
Nope. People aren't calling for his head yet because he's still a god around here, but it's getting close. His failure with Paxton Lynch and people seeing the defense fall apart this year have people talking about wasting the defense by whiffing on a 1st round QB.
The departure of Wade Phillips has to be a factor as well. Not sure if they'll blame Elway for that, but it's something to consider.
Wow - is it really over for Lynch already? I don't remember seeing him play - he must have been beyond terrible for him to be out already. I'm surprised he doesn't warrant playing time to at least see what you've got now that the season's basically over. They spent a 1st rounder on him just a little over a year ago.
The Bronco's QB situation is a Chimera of suck. I am not sure if any of those three are noticeably better than the others.
Lynch has been on IR all season but before he got hurt in the last pre-season game it was announced that Semien had won the starter job and it wasn't that close of a competition. If you lose badly to Semien, well, I don't know that future is all that bright.
Weird. It's like drafting late in the draft makes it really hard to get good players.
Figure it out, Broncos.
The last two times they have picked a QB in the first round it has been Tebow and Lynch. Not exactly a good track record. Granted Tebow was McD.
Why did Phillips leave again? Because Kubiak retired? That never made sense to me since that defense was nails and he was just leaving for another DC job.
Phillips left over money. He wanted to be one of if not the highest paid coordinator and Elway decided it was his players not Phillips that made the defense great.
Interesting perspective from Pittsburgh native Mike Decourcy of The Sporting News regarding the Steelers' fans inferiority complex when it comes to the Pats:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/pittsburgh-steelers-new-england-patriots-afc-championship-odds-problem/1v60ebc7lg60c1hdb1aev391xf?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/pittsburgh-steelers-new-england-patriots-afc-championship-odds-problem/1v60ebc7lg60c1hdb1aev391xf?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
I've complained about his before, and I will again, but I'm complaining today because I heard some clown on the radio again saying that Carroll cost the Seahawks the 2014 SB because "all they had to do was hand it to Lynch."
Here are some facts:
From 2012-2014 Lynch got the ball on the 1 yard line 16 times and scored 6 touchdowns.*
From 2012-2014 from the 1 yard line Wilson threw for 3TDs, had 2 incompletions,
ran for 4TD, was stopped or sacked 6 times. And eventually one INT.
From 2012-2014 the Seahawks' conversion rate from the 1 yard line was the lowest in the NFL (40.6%
vs league average 55.5%)
In the 2012 game vs the Pats with one yard to go Lynch was 2/4 in running for the first down, Wilson was 1/2
passing for the first.
In the 2014 SB, with one yard to go Lynch was 1/2 in running for the first down. Wilson had the one pass.
Now with eight in the box on the goal-line I'm guessing the percentages for running Lynch go way down. The problem is that you have 1:1 on one side of the field but it's against Revis and the other problem you have but don't realize you have is that on the other side of the field Browner is reading your mind and Butler is about to make the play of the millennium.
EDIT * The Lynch stat is almost impossible to believe so spoiled is the link from Pro Football reference PlayFinder Edit2: Basically, one of the worst plays anyone could run from the 1 yard line is handing the ball to Marshawn Lynch.
Here are some facts:
From 2012-2014 Lynch got the ball on the 1 yard line 16 times and scored 6 touchdowns.*
From 2012-2014 from the 1 yard line Wilson threw for 3TDs, had 2 incompletions,
ran for 4TD, was stopped or sacked 6 times. And eventually one INT.
From 2012-2014 the Seahawks' conversion rate from the 1 yard line was the lowest in the NFL (40.6%
vs league average 55.5%)
In the 2012 game vs the Pats with one yard to go Lynch was 2/4 in running for the first down, Wilson was 1/2
passing for the first.
In the 2014 SB, with one yard to go Lynch was 1/2 in running for the first down. Wilson had the one pass.
Now with eight in the box on the goal-line I'm guessing the percentages for running Lynch go way down. The problem is that you have 1:1 on one side of the field but it's against Revis and the other problem you have but don't realize you have is that on the other side of the field Browner is reading your mind and Butler is about to make the play of the millennium.
EDIT * The Lynch stat is almost impossible to believe so spoiled is the link from Pro Football reference PlayFinder Edit2: Basically, one of the worst plays anyone could run from the 1 yard line is handing the ball to Marshawn Lynch.
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I;m failing to see what previous years' numbers have for impact to the play call? It's not exactly splits in baseball. It's much more context and player specific. Which is not to say you're incorrect that Carroll should have called for a pass there - clock management played into that - but I'm not sure how a run in 2012 has anything to do with that decision. Even ignoring the eventual outcome/circumstances and isolating that one play, you hand the ball to Lynch. He called pass because of the clock, not because of Lynch's history getting one yard.
Well I included previous years mostly to bump the sample size. I agree the play call decision is way more "context" specific. The outcomes of runs from 2012-2014 to me is more interesting because of the wildly mistaken public perception - which has now taken on a life of it's own - that Beastmode was this unstoppable force who was something close to a guaranteed touchdown machine from a yard out. That perception is not even remotely borne out by actual numbers, but it is basically an accepted fact in the general discussion of the play call decision.
Edit: I'm not sure the decision to not handoff was more because of clock more than it was because of personnel
The narrative was so lazy; I find Lynch overrated and just the idea that he was “Beast Mode” somehow indicated that it was a slam dunk decision to run him from the one yard line. The ability to break tackles in the open field is very different from finding a hole and smashing through a condensed line.
I’m no fan of Carroll but I always he got too much blame and Wilson didn’t get enough for making a terrible decision to throw a pass into a crowded area when he should have rolled out or just thrown it away.
I’m no fan of Carroll but I always he got too much blame and Wilson didn’t get enough for making a terrible decision to throw a pass into a crowded area when he should have rolled out or just thrown it away.
Their previous decisions (to run the clock down to 26 seconds) and missteps (wasting two timeouts earlier in the drive because they were slow to the line) forced them into a situation where they had to pass the ball on either 2nd or 3rd down in order to ensure they had enough time on the clock to run a play on 4th down, if they hadn't scored by that point. By that logic, it makes sense to pass on the down that it's least expected, 2nd down.
The fact that passing was, in retrospect, the logical choice on 2nd down doesn't excuse the fact that they put themselves in that situation with terrible clock management, nor does it excuse the fact that the call (slant over the middle) and decision by Wilson (force it into tight coverage) were awful.
I still get nightmares picturing Wilson rolling out on an option-read there. That seems like a higher-percentage call than "Russell Wilson, precision pocket-passer"
The very next game for the Seahawks to open 2015 ended with Lynch getting stuffed for a loss on a 4th and 1 attempt.
You can argue about the play call, but the idea that handing it off to him was a lock is nonsense.
You can argue about the play call, but the idea that handing it off to him was a lock is nonsense.
passing in that situation given the timeouts was fine. throwing into traffic instead of a safer fade was the mistake, and they had done that pick play so much that Bill correctly predicted they would call it if he let the clock run.
That theme has always been about the Patriots and how they "don't deserve it". It's consistent with all of the retroactive "I knew that something was up.." stories after Spygate.
Went to the Hoop Dee Doo Revue at Disney last night. They ask where people are from to “she’ll be comin’ round the mountain.” When someone said Massachusetts the rhyme was “cause you’re here we’re all elated but your football’s are all deflated” to which some in the crowd cheered and laughed.
Apparently 40% of New England was there last night as ten or so people stood up with some variation of “yeah, 5 of ‘em!” There were then at least 20 “go Patriots!” immediately following which shut the haters up quickly. Within arms reach of me were families from VT, NH, and MA.
Apparently 40% of New England was there last night as ten or so people stood up with some variation of “yeah, 5 of ‘em!” There were then at least 20 “go Patriots!” immediately following which shut the haters up quickly. Within arms reach of me were families from VT, NH, and MA.
Heading over the "Things you only learned recently" thread to note that the Hoop Dee Doo Review still exists. Probably haven't thought about that since I was 10 years old (I'm 45).
Random question - does anyone have a 1 page cheat sheet of 'yourteamcheats.com'. Something that looks something along the lines of:
Atlanta - "noisegate" - pumped in crowd noise over speakers. Lost fifth round pick in 2016.
Denver - "vaselinegate" - linemen used vaseline on arms and jerseys. Three players fined $5000 each.
Denver - "spygate" - filmed private walkthrough. Fined $50,000 for violation and McDaniels fined $50,000 for not reporting.
San Francisco - "stickumgate" - Jerry Rice admits to using stickum in interview. No fines or penalties.
Steelers - "steroidgate" - used steroids prolifically before other teams. No fines or penalties.
Vikings - "warmgate" - filmed warming balls on sidelines. League sent a memo reminding teams not to warm balls.
Patriots - "spygate" - filmed public walkthrough from incorrect location. $750,000 fine and loss of 1st round draft pick.
Patriots - "deflategate" - (wrongfully) accused of deflating footballs. Lost 1st, 4th round picks and Brady suspended 4 games.
Atlanta - "noisegate" - pumped in crowd noise over speakers. Lost fifth round pick in 2016.
Denver - "vaselinegate" - linemen used vaseline on arms and jerseys. Three players fined $5000 each.
Denver - "spygate" - filmed private walkthrough. Fined $50,000 for violation and McDaniels fined $50,000 for not reporting.
San Francisco - "stickumgate" - Jerry Rice admits to using stickum in interview. No fines or penalties.
Steelers - "steroidgate" - used steroids prolifically before other teams. No fines or penalties.
Vikings - "warmgate" - filmed warming balls on sidelines. League sent a memo reminding teams not to warm balls.
Patriots - "spygate" - filmed public walkthrough from incorrect location. $750,000 fine and loss of 1st round draft pick.
Patriots - "deflategate" - (wrongfully) accused of deflating footballs. Lost 1st, 4th round picks and Brady suspended 4 games.
Spygate was for filming a game against the NY Jets, not a public walkthrough. The only filming of a walkthrough in Spygate took place in Tomase's mind.
Wore my Pats hat down there last week and caught some interesting reactions. A couple of guys doing security at the Polynesian were Eagles fans and said "Looking forward to a Super Bowl rematch!" Had a "cast member" hold a gate open for me and tease "I'll hold it for you even if you're a Pats fan." He was a Jags fan (they're back and back big if the number of hats and shirts I saw of them is any indication). Nothing negative though, all friendly banter.
This is spectacular, and a rare situation where reading the comments adds to, not substracts from, the article:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/27/dolphins-kenny-stills-i-talked-to-tom-brady-all-game-trying-to-get-in-his-head/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/27/dolphins-kenny-stills-i-talked-to-tom-brady-all-game-trying-to-get-in-his-head/
Yeah, Kenny, that's the ticket!
Well worth a read. Some priceless nuggets. Here are a couple:
"That’s a heck of a strategy against a player renowned for his focus that hasn’t lost his cool in any situation over the course of his lengthy career. I’m surprised Tomlin didn’t come up with it."
"Really? No wonder you guys are 4-7."
"I swear if other teams would just follow the “do your job” mantra it wouldn’t be such a easy road for NE to go 12 -4ish every year with what seams like a lifetime ticket to the ACF Title game." (spelling is commenter's, not mine)
And this one:
“But once I got into his head, I discovered it was nothing but mansions, trophies, and supermodels as far as the eye could see. I want to stay, you can’t make me leave!”
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