The Lakers Reality Show

[Kliq]

Spacing the floor is also a broadly used term. To me, a guy roaming around the perimeter and sliding open for a shot is spacing the floor. A big man setting a screen and fading out to the three point line is spacing the floor. Merely standing beyond the three point line and looking disinterested in the play isn't spacing the floor. I'll link the Lowe piece here, as he has a good example of the action: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25995187/10-things-like-including-mvp-race-nba

I like Rondo, but he is a pass-first point guard and will only look to shoot if he has no other options. More than most, he needs the players around him to be cutting and running off screens to maximize his playmaking ability. When LeBron is taking plays off, it limits the Laker offense even when you have a point guard like Rondo handling the ball.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I mean, theres no doubt that Lebron taking large stretches off kills the offense. Playing 4 on 5 would do that to almost any team.

I guess my point was that Lebron and the Lakers knew this was going to happen. It's why they signed Rondo. Lebron wanted to be off ball more and be less physical to save himself for the season. I guess the only people surprised at its ineffectiveness are the Lakers.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

How much better do people think the Lakers would be if they had kept Russell over Ingram and held on to Randle? I think they'd be challenging for home court in the first round, possibly the 3rd seed.

Randle with a 3 point shot is an extremely good basketball player. Russell has taken his game to another level the last 2+ months and made the all star game. While Randle probably isn't going to improve much more outside of his 3 point shot, Russell just turned 23 today. He may have another summer leap in him.

Russell's last 23: .458/.383/.861, 24.3 points, 7.3 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 1.0 steal, in 31.6 minutes.

All this while Ingram appears to have stalled and Ball looks like a bad fit next to LeBron. Of course, they are both still 21 years old and D'Angelo Russell wasn't exactly lighting it up the previous 3 years. The age 22 and 23 seasons are huge ones.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

This summer when people were pondering the myriad LeBron Lakers configurations, one that gave me a li’l frisson as a Ws fan (courtesy of Zach Lowe, IIRC) was the idea of Randle as a bulldog smallball 5 (basically a bigger Draymond with way less D but much better scoring chops) with LeBron at the 4. That alone worried me — now throw in Paul George at 3 and we’re talking potentially existential threat, with the right role players and coaching schemes.

Thankfully, I don’t think Magic and Pelinka really had the foresight or creativity to have been able to conceive it and pull it off. I don’t think they really saw what they in Randle (at a cheap pricetag) and I don’t think they really saw George as a franchise player. Double fail.

 

[cheech13]

In the end they didn’t even need to trade Russell. They moved him to get off the Mozgov contract and open the second max cap spot and that money went to KCP and Rondo. That was just a huge unforced error for the front office. Put Lebron with Russell, Randle and Brook Lopez and that team is probably 2nd or 3rd in the West right now.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

One has to ask at this point whether Pelinka and Magic know what they are doing, right? They had Lebron fall in their lap, but otherwise everything they've done has been neutral to bad. The plan to surround Lebron with 'playmakers' still has the jury out, but returns to date do not suggest it is going to move the needle, and that only makes failing to add a max FA (or retain the assets they dumped to get that slot) look worse.

They may still get lucky (nice to be in Los Angeles) and get a max FA and Davis this summer. But there's a real chance that they took over a team with a bunch of young assets, and max room (which turned into Lebron) and will never put together a team that makes it out of the first round, too.

 

[Tony C]

Yep, I think there's real reason to doubt their competency. Everything looks better than the preceding Kupchak/Buss team, and both management teams have drafted well with later picks, so someone deserves credit there. But Pelinka and Magic are very unimpressive -- add in that Jerry West is first up in Golden State and now in the same town doing his magic....I don't know their inside politics, but I assume West would work for the Lakers if offered authority, but just hasn't been given the offer.

 

[nighthob]

This summer when people were pondering the myriad LeBron Lakers configurations, one that gave me a li’l frisson as a Ws fan (courtesy of Zach Lowe, IIRC) was the idea of Randle as a bulldog smallball 5 (basically a bigger Draymond with way less D but much better scoring chops) with LeBron at the 4. That alone worried me — now throw in Paul George at 3 and we’re talking potentially existential threat, with the right role players and coaching schemes.

Thankfully, I don’t think Magic and Pelinka really had the foresight or creativity to have been able to conceive it and pull it off. I don’t think they really saw what they in Randle (at a cheap pricetag) and I don’t think they really saw George as a franchise player. Double fail.

They never had a chance to sign Paul George, he decided that he liked OKC and agreed to sign with them before free agency started.

I think the problem is that they didn’t understand that the world went and changed on them. They just assumed that Paul George would sign there and they played hardball with the Pacers. The children of the 90s just don’t have the same view of the Lakers that the earlier generations of players did.

They seem to have learned their lesson if the Anthony Davis trade negotiations are any indication. But at this point they’ve held on to Ingram too long and he no longer has the trade value he once did.

 

[bowiac]

In the end they didn’t even need to trade Russell. They moved him to get off the Mozgov contract and open the second max cap spot and that money went to KCP and Rondo. That was just a huge unforced error for the front office. Put Lebron with Russell, Randle and Brook Lopez and that team is probably 2nd or 3rd in the West right now.

The Lakers also got the pick that became Kuzma in that Russell trade. I don't think much of Kuzma, but he's probably close to a push with Russell. Lopez likewise they acquired in the Russell deal. They could have signed him as a FA, but there's a reason he's making $3M this year. There wasn't a lot of faith in his game around the league.

Seems like there's a lot of deck chairs on the titanic ideas being kicked around here (Randle as a bigger Draymond?), none of which would really do anything. At the end of the day, the Lakers had two #2 picks in a row, and didn't get anything resembling a star with either of them. That's not an issue unique to the Lakers however - that's just life in the NBA. It's hard to win, and it usually takes the confluence of a bunch of events.

 

[Green (Tongued) Monster]

In the end they didn’t even need to trade Russell. They moved him to get off the Mozgov contract and open the second max cap spot and that money went to KCP and Rondo. That was just a huge unforced error for the front office. Put Lebron with Russell, Randle and Brook Lopez and that team is probably 2nd or 3rd in the West right now.

This isn't the whole story though, and in my opinion, not the real reason for the trade. They HAD to trade Russell. He secretly taped a teammate's confession of infidelity and became a pariah in the clubhouse. He was not only hated by players, but Lakers staff as well. You can say they failed by not getting the proper value in return, but other teams also knew the Lakers were desperate so they were never going to get proper value.

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

At the end of the day, the Lakers had two #2 picks in a row, and didn't get anything resembling a star with either of them.

Amazingly, three #2 picks in a row - Russell in 2015, Ingram in 2016, Ball in 2017 (unless you were excluding Russell on purpose since he was shipped out).

 

[soxhop411]

Today’s laker loss was a Disaster.

Which coach does LeBron hand pick to lead the lakers next season?

 

[mauf]

I thought it was clear last summer that LBJ and the Lakers were punting on this season and positioning themselves to contend in 2019-20 and beyond. It seems fair to wait at least until next fall to judge the success of that strategy — which, considering the situation in Oakland, seemed like a reasonable plan at the time.

The decision not to sign Randle was an integral part of that plan. They knew they’d be better this season with Randle, but they wouldn’t have a max slot this summer. And as @Green (Tongued) Monster duly notes, retaining Russell was never an option — plus the Russell trade was a key part of opening up the cap space the Lakers needed to lure LeBron.

A big part of the Lakers’ plan, however, has fallen flat — they obviously (and reasonably) expected that Ingram would build on the progress he made last year, and that Ball would make the customary leap between his first and second seasons. Neither of those guys looks like a building block for a contender in the near term, and I question how much trade value either has.

 

[bowiac]

Amazingly, three #2 picks in a row - Russell in 2015, Ingram in 2016, Ball in 2017 (unless you were excluding Russell on purpose since he was shipped out).

Nope. Just an oversight.

And their hit rate with those 3 probably isn't that bad. It looks like one bust (Ingram), one low-mid starter (Russell), and one mid-tier starter (Lonzo) to me. Below average returns probably, but not insanely so. It's just the reality of contending in the NBA. You need to get lucky, a few times, to get any real traction.

 

[TheRooster]

Wait, are we sure 21 year old Ingram is a bust? I don't see him play a ton, but I think he still has a ton of potential.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Wait, are we sure 21 year old Ingram is a bust? I don't see him play a ton, but I think he still has a ton of potential.

All depends on how you feel about volume scorers who play zero defense. It's a philosophical argument.

A team of Ingrams would get run off the floor.

I can't get past the skinny Jeff Green comparison. It's frightening.

 

[benhogan]

Spacing the floor is also a broadly used term. To me, a guy roaming around the perimeter and sliding open for a shot is spacing the floor. A big man setting a screen and fading out to the three point line is spacing the floor. Merely standing beyond the three point line and looking disinterested in the play isn't spacing the floor. I'll link the Lowe piece here, as he has a good example of the action: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25995187/10-things-like-including-mvp-race-nba
.

100% agree. This is so spot on. The screen setter rolling to the 3 or to the hoop creates better offensive space/movement than 5 standing around the perimeter. Another important element of the "physical screen" is it creates mismatches for your elite offensive players. AND they end up with the ball in their hands, taking more of the shots.

 

[TripleOT]

Wait, are we sure 21 year old Ingram is a bust? I don't see him play a ton, but I think he still has a ton of potential.

To me the jury is still out on ingram. Young players build like reeds usually don't thrive in the NBA. He might grow into something better than average in a few years, probably somewhere else.

Regarding the Lakers three in a row number 2 picks, Russell is probably one of the four best players in the 2015 draft, with Kat, Booker, and Zinger. Ingram is one of the best five or six in the 2016 draft, with Simmons, Brown, Murray, Hield, Brogdan. Ball is one of the best handful of 2017 picks, with Tatum, Mitchell, Markkanen, and Fox. It's not like the Lakers were selecting Sam Bowie with MJ out there. (If they didn't make their intentions known about Ball, Ainge would have taken Tatum 1 IMO)

The Lakers are in this spot because Kobe insisted on big money on his last deal, which blocked them from landing a big star to transition out of the Kobe era. Then they made those idiotic FA signings of scrubs like Deng and Mosgoz to give Kobe someone to play with. They were bad enough and lucky enough with the ping pong balls to get three high picks in a row, but didn't hit a home run or even a triple on any of them. Now they've got an aging superstar and not much else but hope the can woo a top FA, while they game the league with LeBron running an agency while being defacto GM of the league. I hope that the other superstars in the league relish the idea of beating on LeBron his last few years like those in Pierce's era enjoyed tooling on old MJ. But with this generation of player, I'm guessing they'd rather join him than crush him, unfortunately.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

In the end they didn’t even need to trade Russell. They moved him to get off the Mozgov contract and open the second max cap spot and that money went to KCP and Rondo. That was just a huge unforced error for the front office. Put Lebron with Russell, Randle and Brook Lopez and that team is probably 2nd or 3rd in the West right now.

LeBron didn't come to LA to play with Randle and Russell while being 2nd/3rd best team in the West. The plan was to open up max slots to be a multi-year favorite to win the NBA Championship. There was also the severe internal issues with Russell and his secret recordings but the primary reason was to land max FA beginning this coming summer.

Today’s laker loss was a Disaster.

Which coach does LeBron hand pick to lead the lakers next season?

When your team bus leaves without the coach you know a change will soon be taking place......possibly as soon as this week imho.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/lakers-team-bus-left-without-walton-on-it/ar-BBU1fPQ?ocid=spartanntp​

 

[TripleOT]

I wonder if a LeBron approved coach is out there, maybe someone with Laker ties, who attends Bronny's AAU games with Lebron, and has a championship on his resume.

 

[DJnVa]

When your team bus leaves without the coach you know a change will soon be taking place......possibly as soon as this week imho.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/lakers-team-bus-left-without-walton-on-it/ar-BBU1fPQ?ocid=spartanntp​

That rumor was later denied.

Doesn't mean a change isn't coming though.

 

[bowiac]

To me the jury is still out on ingram. Young players build like reeds usually don't thrive in the NBA. He might grow into something better than average in a few years, probably somewhere else.

Regarding the Lakers three in a row number 2 picks, Russell is probably one of the four best players in the 2015 draft, with Kat, Booker, and Zinger. Ingram is one of the best five or six in the 2016 draft, with Simmons, Brown, Murray, Hield, Brogdan. Ball is one of the best handful of 2017 picks, with Tatum, Mitchell, Markkanen, and Fox. It's not like the Lakers were selecting Sam Bowie with MJ out there. (If they didn't make their intentions known about Ball, Ainge would have taken Tatum 1 IMO)

I really do not agree with the bolded. I'd also easily rather have Siakam, Sabonis, LeVert, Dejounte Murray, and Taurean Prince than Ingram. And then there's a dozen other guys who are probably as good as Ingram has been. The Lakers didn't pass on MJ, but Ingram has shown basically no sign of being a useful player in the NBA, and while he's still young, he's only got one year left on the rookie deal at this point, and there is opportunity cost to waiting on him. If he turns into a rotation quality guy in a couple years, that's a long time to wait for a meager outcome.

Russell is a fine player, and Lonzo is probably better than fine. But when you're talking about the #2 overall pick, you're looking for stars, and none of those three are there. It's not that the Lakers blew it by taking Sam Bowie - the point is quite the opposite, they made totally reasonable picks, but they didn't get lucky enough to land an impact guy. They've gotten probably close to an average return with those three (ignoring the trade of Russell), but the reality of life in the NBA is that average results are not the path to relevance. You need to strike gold somewhere to build through the draft, and realistically, probably a couple of times.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Regarding the Lakers three in a row number 2 picks, Russell is probably one of the four best players in the 2015 draft, with Kat, Booker, and Zinger.

Minor quibble, in 2015, Myles Turner has to be on the list.

I will note for 2015, Russell is 7th by VORP (Booker is 16th) behind KAT, Turner, Nance Jr., Richardson, Hazrell and WCS.

By BPM, Russell is 12th and in WS, Russell is 24th. (Booker is 20th by BPM and 15th by WS).

Our whipping boy TRoz is 10th by WS, 12th by VORP, and 14th by BPM.

 

[Devizier]

I really do not agree with the bolded.

Even if the bolded were true, it shows the limitations of the tank strategy. Talent isn't even distributed among drafts. This last draft was a bonanza and early indications are that this upcoming one will be far from that.

 

[Kliq]

The Lakers are in a weird place because I think with Ingram and Ball, they have two very divisive prospects. I think there are some front office people in the NBA who love Ingram, and others who think he is a bust. The same could be said for Lonzo. The trade market could vary widely for either prospect depending on who LA is dealing with.

Ingram I'm a little bit higher on; he has a low-floor and high-ceiling. He's pretty good at getting to the basket and finishing around the rim, and has the potential to average 8 or so FTA per game in his prime. His problem is he really can't shoot, he's a non-factor from three (29 percent on under 2 attempts per game) and only shooting 66 percent from the free throw line. He also doesn't have good instincts on defense and is really disappointing on that end despite his physical tools.

Ball has a higher floor, but I'm more weary of him reaching his ceiling than Ingram. Ball has a high BBIQ, plays solid defense, and can pass in transition. Like Ingram, he can't shoot and unlike Ingram, really doesn't attack the basket or get to the line. He has so far has struggled to stay healthy, although nothing major or chronic has taken place yet.

The problem for Lozno, imo, is that there isn't that much space in the game today for a classic point guard who can't really score. The Andre Miller/Mark Jackson/Rondo types are kind of gone; the best playmakers in the game are ones who create for themselves and then others. Outside of Draymond, if you look at the Top 15 leaders in APG, every single one of them is averaging at least 15 ppg and 10 of them are averaging at least 20 ppg. NBA offenses are built around primary ball-handlers who are threats to shoot and to pass; if a point guard isn't a threat to do that, he is going to find it very difficult to lead an efficient offense.

 

[Kliq]

Done by six heading into the fourth to the tanktastic Grizzlies.

 

[ElUno20]

Lebron better be legitimately hurt because this is an embarrassing effort. Not even running

 

[ElUno20]

Luke needs to be fired tonight.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Luke needs to be fired tonight.

What time is the game over?

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Lebron better be legitimately hurt because this is an embarrassing effort. Not even running

Messed around and got a triple double.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Now watch this team miss the playoffs and beat the odds to land a top 4 pick. I am irrationally concerned about this scenario.

 

[TripleOT]

Lebron better be legitimately hurt because this is an embarrassing effort. Not even running

i didn't see the game but just looked at the box score. 7 points on 14 shots for the Lakers' bench, which was outscored 33-7. Those veterans need another uprising. Rondo zero assists in 16 minutes. Strange.

 

[ElUno20]

His triple double tonight is one of the least impactful stat lines of the season. He gave zero effort and zero Fs tonight about helping his team. Clown of a performance. But hey he gets to make space jam 2 so great move!

 

[TripleOT]

His triple double tonight is one of the least impactful stat lines of the season. He gave zero effort and zero Fs tonight about helping his team. Clown of a performance. But hey he gets to make space jam 2 so great move!

I wonder if LeBron the GM has made a decision that a four game sweep at the hands of the Warriors is more objectionable than missing the playoffs.

 

[Kliq]

You have to give credit to LeBron, he owned the loss in the post game press conference.

Oh wait, no he didn't! He totally buried his teammates for being pre-occupied by "distractions." I have no idea why they would be distracted, any ideas, LeBron?

 

[Devizier]

Oh wait, no he didn't! He totally buried his teammates for being pre-occupied by "distractions." I have no idea why they would be distracted, any ideas, LeBron?

At least Trade Bait and Whatshisface played well last night.

 

[BigSoxFan]

You have to give credit to LeBron, he owned the loss in the post game press conference.

Oh wait, no he didn't! He totally buried his teammates for being pre-occupied by "distractions." I have no idea why they would be distracted, any ideas, LeBron?

LOL. You went 8-23 LeKobe.

 

[Valek123]

Why would any other star want in on this mess? Seriously... I think they only get one via trade now, and perhaps he recognizes that and his anger over the AD fiasco is no longer containable as he knew it was his best chance. These players aren't even good enough to get traded for what he wants.

 

[The Social Chair]

You have to give credit to LeBron, he owned the loss in the post game press conference.

Oh wait, no he didn't! He totally buried his teammates for being pre-occupied by "distractions." I have no idea why they would be distracted, any ideas, LeBron?

Those comments make no sense. Ingram and Kuzma played great last night and Ball didn't play at all.

Kyrie and Lebron deserve to be stuck with each other.

 

[DavidTai]

Pretty sure that sort of thing was why Kyrie left Lebron in the first place.

I wonder if Kyrie's current issues is that he now understands what LeBron was feeling but doesn't want to make the same mistakes. But doesn't know how to get through to, say, Rozier.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

Messed around and got a triple double.

Not bad for a slow-footed big.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Those comments make no sense. Ingram and Kuzma played great last night and Ball didn't play at all.

Kyrie and Lebron deserve to be stuck with each other.

Funny thing is that the box score shows the Lakers bench getting eaten alive. All five starters were marginal net positive p/m, with Kuzma leading the way (healthy +7).

Lebron the GM needs to pay a bit more attention to the rest of the rotation.

 

[tims4wins]

Pretty sure that sort of thing was why Kyrie left Lebron in the first place.

I wonder if Kyrie's current issues is that he now understands what LeBron was feeling but doesn't want to make the same mistakes. But doesn't know how to get through to, say, Rozier.

This sounds quite plausible to me

 

[djbayko]

You have to give credit to LeBron, he owned the loss in the post game press conference.

Oh wait, no he didn't! He totally buried his teammates for being pre-occupied by "distractions." I have no idea why they would be distracted, any ideas, LeBron?

He very conveniently co-mingles the players fighting for a playoff berth and "distractions" to make a very confusing point.

Yes, Lebron, a playoff push is the kind of competition you want as an athlete. No one will argue that at all. Pushing hard to earn a starting role or maintain a spot on the bench? Yup, that type of competition is perfectly normal and healthy. But when your HOF player/GM lets it be publicly known that the entire roster is available? You need to own that one, Lebron.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Now watch this team miss the playoffs and beat the odds to land a top 4 pick. I am irrationally concerned about this scenario.

It's possible they could finish as low as 8th. I'm pretty sure that would give them a decent shot at a top 4 pick. Probably better than 25%. Anyone have a link to the numbers?

 

[nighthob]

Now watch this team miss the playoffs and beat the odds to land a top 4 pick. I am irrationally concerned about this scenario.

The longer this goes the less I want to do with the Klutch Killer Klown Show. I’d find it a relief if they landed a top four pick and emptied the roster for Davis. I’d prefer Durant anyway (here’s hoping he CP3s his way here).

 

[lovegtm]

It's possible they could finish as low as 8th. I'm pretty sure that would give them a decent shot at a top 4 pick. Probably better than 25%. Anyone have a link to the numbers?

per tankathon.com, they'd be 6% to get #1 overall at #8, and 26% to go top 4.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Kuzma, Ball, Ingram and the #4 pick probably tops Tatum + picks.

 

[nighthob]

Kuzma, Ball, Ingram and the #4 pick probably tops Tatum + picks.

That's fine. Because Klutch spending the year setting tire fires in the Celtics clubhouse would suck the oxygen out of the season for me. So the Lakers emptying their roster for Davis is just fine by me.

 

[Sam Ray Not]