When he was high he could have had a bad trip and hurt someone important, like a man or a dog.BigSoxFan said:
The Josh Gordon Saga: Reinstated Conditionally
- Thread starter Ed Hillel
- Start date
The Gordon suspension of course, has nothing to do with the Rice situation. Gordon got this suspension because in the CBA (which both the owners and the players agreed upon) that if someone had already been hit with an offense, they can be suspended for a year. The league did what it was supposed to do. To the best of my knowledge, the CBA has nothing about domestic assault (maybe it should) and what the suspension can be. Was Rice's suspensions too short? Probably, but it is a completely different situation than what Gordois going through.
Gordon's statement was comical:
Uh, how about your discretion and judgement, Josh? Did you show good discreation and judgment when you decided to get high (seconhand smoke or not, no one was forcing Gordon to smoke). Or when you got charged with drunk driving AND got pulled over for speeding while someone in the car was in possession of marijuana over the summer?
Gordon's statement was comical:
Uh, how about your discretion and judgement, Josh? Did you show good discreation and judgment when you decided to get high (seconhand smoke or not, no one was forcing Gordon to smoke). Or when you got charged with drunk driving AND got pulled over for speeding while someone in the car was in possession of marijuana over the summer?
Hopefully, Gordon gets the treatment he needs and can keep himself clean and in shape because he is a fantastic talent.
But that statement doesn't lead me to believe he understands that he has the problem and that he needs to take responsibility for it.
But that statement doesn't lead me to believe he understands that he has the problem and that he needs to take responsibility for it.
I don't have lots of sympathy for this specific individual, but the NFL continues to be terrible with how they handle suspensions. Taking weeks to hand down this ruling, which might now keep Gordon out of training camp next year, is a joke. The severity of punishment for a marijuana offense (not the DUI, which is why I don't have a lot of sympathy for this individual) or drinking at home is a joke. Players are idiots for putting themselves in a position where the NFL can mete out these punishments, but that doesn't make the punishment regime less idiotic.
soxfan121 said:
Treatment he needs? He missed passing the test by first the order of testing and second by an amount so small he would have passed a federal drug test to hold office. It isn't like he was high as a kite while taking the test. The DUI was also extremely close to the legal limit which is absurdly low. You could probably arrest half the people driving home from dinner between 8-11PM on any given Friday/Saturday night for failing a .08 limit at a .09.
Sure it is on him for failing the tests but when you pass 70 and 1/2 and fail the second by that small an amount I'm not sure it screams rehab.
mwonow said:
That would make him different from the vast majority of professional athletes?
My only problem with this is that he passed and also failed on the same test. How does it make any sense that if the cups were reversed he would have passed?
j44thor said:
Josh Gordon flunked a drug test in 2011 while enrolled at Duke. He was suspended from the team and transferred.
Josh Gordon flunked a drug test at some point in 2012, causing him to be enrolled in the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy and its attendant guidelines for behavior.
Josh Gordon flunked a drug test in June of 2013, earning him a two-game suspension under the Policy.
Josh Gordon flunked a drug test in the spring of 2014, earning him an automatic year-long suspension under the Policy.
Josh Gordon was arrested for DUI in July of 2014, while his appeal of said suspension was pending.
That's FIVE serious incidents involving substance abuse in three years. After each one, Gordon was disciplined and given another chance. And FIVE times, he failed to behave in the way proscribed by the NFL & NFLPA's collectively bargained rules.
At the very least, Josh Gordon needs help making better decisions. But since every single one of these FIVE incidents involves substance use of some sort, I think that in order for Josh Gordon to have a chance of returning to the NFL, he needs to spend lots of time in "treatment". Maybe with someone like John Lucas, who has had lots of success (and failure) helping addicts in the sports world.
And on a personal note, I find your blithe acceptance of drunk driving to be distasteful. I also think you vastly exaggerate the number of people who stupidly and callously get behind the wheel and drive drunk. While I know that unfortunately many people do choose poorly and drive under the influence, if they get stopped and arrested for being over the legal limit and behind the wheel, they deserve to be punished, harshly. Far too many people have lost loved ones to drunk driving for me to let that statement pass without comment. YMMV and I'm sure we could have a thoughtful, productive discussion on this in V&N if you would like.
soxfan121 said:
While the details are pretty sparse I'm not sure if any of them qualify as "serious" other than for the fact that he's in a weird profession where he gets tested and can have serious adverse career consequences for smoking weed.
Soxfan's comprehensive chronology omits only the sketchy behavior at Baylor.
I get it: the weed rules are unenlightened. But "this is the business we've chosen."
The more disturbing problem with all of this here is not these 16 games, but Ray Rice's 2, and the disciplinary machinery generally.
But let's be honest with ourselves as Pats fans. You could repeal the weed proscription tomorrow and none of us would be eager to deal for him and pay him handsomely for some pretty obvious reasons. His priorities are fucked up, or he has no self control.
I get it: the weed rules are unenlightened. But "this is the business we've chosen."
The more disturbing problem with all of this here is not these 16 games, but Ray Rice's 2, and the disciplinary machinery generally.
But let's be honest with ourselves as Pats fans. You could repeal the weed proscription tomorrow and none of us would be eager to deal for him and pay him handsomely for some pretty obvious reasons. His priorities are fucked up, or he has no self control.
Well then I'm glad you guys are not running the team. You understand the stupidity of the failed tests while he was in the NFL?Papelbon said:
There is a fairly narrow time frame during which players are tested. The players generally know when this is, and that once cleared, they are essentially free to smoke all the weed they please until the next annual testing period rolls around.
This is a drug test in name only. It's really a moron test, and/or a test whether you are a hopelessly addicted (assuming one can be addicted to weed). He failed three times.
Stupid archaic nonsense. Yeah, they are unrelated, but Ray Rice getting two games to Gordon's 16 is just a PR disaster for the NFL, and rightly so. I can't wait for this country, and its professional sports leagues to finally do away with this completely political and otherwise, ancient view of marijuana. So fucking terrible. Ok, Josh Gordon is stupid for getting caught again and all that, and people don't have to sympathize with him, but if it weren't for these idiotic rules and a 19th century worldview shared by folks who are completely out of touch with weed and it's actual societal impact, he wouldn't be in a position to have to worry about not making these stupid choices.
The DUI is another story. IMO, that punishment should be severe. I have way, way less sympathy for him in that regard, and most athletes for that matter, and it doesn't matter to me if he blew a .09 or a .99. He's got millions of dollars, and could literally have a driver at his beck and call at all times. Or, he could press a couple of buttons on his phone and have someone pick him up from Uber or another app, or you know, call a fucking cab or a friend...Most of these guys should just put something on their cars that doesn't allow them to be used after say, 8:00 p.m. and be done with it. So fine, suspend him for the DUI, but the weed, uggh, it drives me crazy.
The DUI is another story. IMO, that punishment should be severe. I have way, way less sympathy for him in that regard, and most athletes for that matter, and it doesn't matter to me if he blew a .09 or a .99. He's got millions of dollars, and could literally have a driver at his beck and call at all times. Or, he could press a couple of buttons on his phone and have someone pick him up from Uber or another app, or you know, call a fucking cab or a friend...Most of these guys should just put something on their cars that doesn't allow them to be used after say, 8:00 p.m. and be done with it. So fine, suspend him for the DUI, but the weed, uggh, it drives me crazy.
Deathofthebambino said:
You know he only got suspended that long because that is what it says in the CBA, right? This isn't Goodell sitting around dealing out suspensions under his opinion and his opinion only; the players agreed to the rules for a suspension related to marijuana and other substances.
You may be thinking on the NBA where you get a set number per year after which you know you won't get tested until the next testing period.dcmissle said:
As noted above, in Stage 3 he gets tested every month and can be tested up to 10 times in a given month. Even outside of that, if you are in any stage of the program you can be tested up to 23 times per year in or out of season. I'm not sure the details of the non-program testing but I believe there is random testing (though not every player gets tested every year if I remember correctly) Here's a link to a story about Kirk Cousins (who I don't believe is in the program) getting randomly tested at his grandmother's house. http://www.si.com/si-wire/2013/03/14/kirk-cousins-random-drug-test-grandmother-redskins-nfl
Edit- Unrelated, but the most ridiculous thing this case brought to light. You don't have to be positive on both samples to be suspended, so if Gordon worked at the Cleveland DMV he wouldn't have tested positive, but the NFL CBA doesn't follow the same standards as Ohio law so one barely positive and one negative gets treated as a positive test.
You are correct. That was my hypothetical.Papelbon said:
He is in one hell of a bind. The players agreed to this regime in the most recent CBA. He is in Stage 3 for the rest of his NFL career, which means he is subject to testing up to 10x per month, though he may petition for reduced testing. That's what stage 3 gets you -- but you get to that point only by flunking an annual test you know is coming.
Anyone feel lucky? Fred David and Tannard Jackson are wasted talents now out of the League. Weed.
Y'know, we civilians retain the right to think something is stupid even if the football players' union agrees to it, right?
When I think of how many guys might have gotten addicted to dangerous and debilitating opiates just because they have a prescription when weed could have helped them out for their pain, frankly, it pisses me off.
When I think of how many guys might have gotten addicted to dangerous and debilitating opiates just because they have a prescription when weed could have helped them out for their pain, frankly, it pisses me off.
Of course, and I said at the outset that the weed proscription is bad policy. I'm just looking at this from the standpoint of holding people reasonably accountable -- and from a fan's standpoint, what's a good risk and what isn't.
He came into the League with his eyes wide open as to the potential consequences of this stuff. Indeed, he was in the NFL at such a young age precisely because of his screw ups in college.
For better and worse, his union binds him. Take the good with the bad.
It is utterly inconceivable that the League's policy was not explained to him in detail as a rookie, assuming he didn't know it.
He then proceeds to fuck up in the manner outlined by Soxfan.
The cherry on the sundae is the DUI while all of this was pending, which, if true, put innocents at risk.
Yes, he's 23. He's also a highly paid professional who should be accountable to teammates and with access to every conceivable resource to battle whatever his demons may be.
When is enough enough?
He came into the League with his eyes wide open as to the potential consequences of this stuff. Indeed, he was in the NFL at such a young age precisely because of his screw ups in college.
For better and worse, his union binds him. Take the good with the bad.
It is utterly inconceivable that the League's policy was not explained to him in detail as a rookie, assuming he didn't know it.
He then proceeds to fuck up in the manner outlined by Soxfan.
The cherry on the sundae is the DUI while all of this was pending, which, if true, put innocents at risk.
Yes, he's 23. He's also a highly paid professional who should be accountable to teammates and with access to every conceivable resource to battle whatever his demons may be.
When is enough enough?
Papelbon's Poutine said:
PP, I truly understand your point. And I sympathize with Rev's point up thread.
But Josh Gordon does not have a job in the NFL BECAUSE he repeatedly made bad decisions. He chose to use something that resulted in a first flunked test. He chose to use a codeine cough syrup. He chose to smoke weed. He chose to be in a car with other people smoking weed. He chose to drive when he had been using alcohol.
These were his choices and they were bad choices.
It is why I think he needs treatment. This is not a guy who makes good decisions about how to behave off the field. Despite having had MANY people (his agent, his union rep, his coaches, his teammates) who have tried to explain what he can and cannot do if he wants to play in the NFL.
You are probably right that someone would trade for him tomorrow, even with the looming suspension (this discussion of "what if he didn't" is stupid and pointless - he has a suspension, let's stay with that). But at this point, it is far more likely he never plays another down in the NFL because he keeps making bad decisions.
This is not about weed. It is about bad decisions. Repeated bad decisions.
Please, if you want to make the case that the NFL's policy on weed use is stupid, do so. But acknowledge that Gordon was NOT suspended for "weed". Gordon was suspended for repeatedly making the same bad decisions, while knowing the consequences. That's a problem.
I want the Patriots to trade for this guy. I don't think they'd have to offer a ton at this point, because obviously suspensions are, um, an issue for him. I'd happily take the risk and hope that somehow the Patriots can get him straightened out.
Of course, that didn't work real well in the Ahern situation, but still...
Of course, that didn't work real well in the Ahern situation, but still...
soxfan121 said:
As to the bolded, if your point is that teams won't give Gordon another chance, that seems wrong. Gordon is a top receiver; a team will take a chance on him. If your point is that Gordon won't be reinstated by the NFL, I can't buy that, either. This is a league that reinstated a guy who murdered and tortured dogs, and has an owner that has DUI issues (not to mention a series of players).
What he probably won't be is traded unless someone is bold enough to offer a first round pick.
His suspension means that although Gordon is banned from team facilities, he has access to all the assistance the NFL offers in this area, and he remains subject to random testing.
If he passes those tests and demonstrates progress, he can petition for reinstatement and certainly would be. In that event, I can't see the Browns trading him.
If he messes up again, he won't reinstated anytime soon. We will be then where we are now, except worse because there will be another incident. And in that event, nobody will be interested, just as nobody is interested now.
So it's entirely in his hands.
I don't see the DUI factoring in much one way or another in terms of lengthening the discipline, so long as he gets with the program. If he is acquitted, obviously that works in his favor. But even if he is convicted, I don't see the NFL piling on if he demonstrates progress.
This can be overcome. Chris Carter overcame cocaine and booze after Buddy Ryan cut him.
His suspension means that although Gordon is banned from team facilities, he has access to all the assistance the NFL offers in this area, and he remains subject to random testing.
If he passes those tests and demonstrates progress, he can petition for reinstatement and certainly would be. In that event, I can't see the Browns trading him.
If he messes up again, he won't reinstated anytime soon. We will be then where we are now, except worse because there will be another incident. And in that event, nobody will be interested, just as nobody is interested now.
So it's entirely in his hands.
I don't see the DUI factoring in much one way or another in terms of lengthening the discipline, so long as he gets with the program. If he is acquitted, obviously that works in his favor. But even if he is convicted, I don't see the NFL piling on if he demonstrates progress.
This can be overcome. Chris Carter overcame cocaine and booze after Buddy Ryan cut him.
Hard to say what the Browns would take. He's a high-risk proven talent, I dont think they're trading him for a 6th rounder or something like that.Shelterdog said:
As stupid as the policy is, dcmissle has a point about it being a moron test. I am glad that the current Patriot recreational drug users are smarter than Josh Gordon about how they handle their business.
Stitch01 said:
While I was mostly trying to make a nickel bag joke, I think they'd take more than a sixth but a lot less than a first. Maybe a 2015 fifth and a 2016 pick conditioned on how many games he plays in 2015.
I don't think Cleveland would be or should be in any hurry to get rid of him. Gordon makes peanuts (cap # is about $1.5 MM the next two seasons) and is one of the best players in the NFL when he's on the field. Why jettison him for pennies (or nickels) on the dollar?Shelterdog said:
If you want to argue that no one else would give up more than a 5th + conditional, I buy that, but I'm not sure why the Browns would be interested unless there's significant return (maybe a second?). A fifth-round pick has a very small chance of panning out; even if you think Gordon's chances of an NFL future are similarly small, he's got tremendous upside at least.
I was responding to Shelter's post that he could be had for a bag of nickels. I don't think so, but If that were the case, it would likely be known.Papelbon said:
Please try to keep things in context. Make a feeble effort at least, just for show if nothing else.
Edit. It's really pretty amusing, as these posts are immediately above, so the context is pretty clear for everyone to see.
Pleads guilty to driving while impaired. 60-days, suspended, license suspended. $100 fine.
Per PFT, by pleading now he avoids mandatory 2-game suspension under new policy now being ironed out, which is not retroactive in this respect. Under current policy, suspension not mandatory. And in any case, Roger currently occupied.
Per PFT, by pleading now he avoids mandatory 2-game suspension under new policy now being ironed out, which is not retroactive in this respect. Under current policy, suspension not mandatory. And in any case, Roger currently occupied.
Adam Caplan @caplannfl 32s33 seconds ago
#Browns announced: WR Josh Gordon suspended for violating team rules.
#Browns announced: WR Josh Gordon suspended for violating team rules.
It's pretty convenient that this costs him becoming a free agent at the end of next year.
Team rules is pretty vague. Anyone be shocked if the Browns were delighted with this? Out of playoffs and now Gordon is a rfa at the end of next year instead of a Ufa.
Team rules is pretty vague. Anyone be shocked if the Browns were delighted with this? Out of playoffs and now Gordon is a rfa at the end of next year instead of a Ufa.
Aaron Wilson @RavensInsider 1h1 hour ago
Source says Browns management thought it was prudent to take this opportunity to prevent Josh Gordon from gaining accrued season toward FA
Source says Browns management thought it was prudent to take this opportunity to prevent Josh Gordon from gaining accrued season toward FA
Not only wouldn't Manziel think he didn't have to be at practice.....by league rules he's not allowed to practice. Well done trying to create a story Disney.DrewDawg said: