The Goat Thread: Wk 1 vs The Chiefs

BroodsSexton

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There's been a lot of hype about Brady throwing long, having as good of an arm as ever, and having a lot of weapons. Granted he was missing Edelman and Amendola but it sure looked like Brady was pressing for huge gains rather than "managing the clock" through short pick-ups as has been typical. When Brady is going out there trading bombs with Alex Smith, something is wrong. It looked like he missed a lot of shorter 3-4 yard pick ups.

I honestly have no idea how Berry was covering Gronk. Holding or not, just throw it over his head. Gronk has to have an 8" height advantage.

I do also wonder if the Pats view these early games as extended preseason--it's not that they are not focused on winning, but the nature of the beast is that they are still going to be working things out at full speed, particularly with many new players. It seems like every year it takes a while for them to rev up and click. That doesn't excuse the atrocities we saw last night, but rather amplifies them.
 

TheMoralBully

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We know Brady is all about precise routes and trusting his guys. Look at some of Aaron Rodgers stat-lines when he was adjusting to life without Jordy Nelson, this kind of thing happens. Brady sucked, but no Edelman and Amendola is a huge deal. This team's track record suggests they'll figure it out on offense though, because talent is there. Maybe we just temper expectations a bit, especially if Amendola is out for awhile.

The defense is much tougher to be optimistic about. Belichick has his work cut out for him there.
 

DJnVa

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They didn't look prepared to face a real battle. They were up 27-21 and completely collapsed. That's inexcusable.

Maybe Brady accidentally ate a strawberry this week.
The play calling on the goal to go series when it was 24-21 was horrendous. A TD there and it's 31-21 and we're in good shape.
 

BigSoxFan

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The play calling on the goal to go series when it was 24-21 was horrendous. A TD there and it's 31-21 and we're in good shape.
That White sweep call from the 5 on 2nd down was horrendous. Maybe not the best play unless defense is absolutely gassed like Atlanta was. The failure to convert in that series was definitely a huge momentum changer.
 

tims4wins

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They didn't look prepared to face a real battle. They were up 27-21 and completely collapsed. That's inexcusable.

Maybe Brady accidentally ate a strawberry this week.
I dunno, when they fell behind 21-17 they immediately responded with 10 straight points. The failure to make it 14 points hurt. But that doesn't scream unprepared for a battle to me - they responded. The losses of DA and DH hurt both units.

This game reminded me of a combination of 3 games:
- Houston playoff game, in that the Pats were reliant on deep shots due to the defense clogging the middle
- Seattle game last year, in that the D basically couldn't make a stop, and that the offense had a few key misses (the 4th downs / red zone issues / Gronk drop last night, the 4th and goal in the Seattle game, as well as the Edelman fumble
- the regular season game in Denver in 2015, in which they were cruising along pretty good until both Gronk and DH left with injuries, then both units kind of collapsed

It is tough to lose key starters on both sides of the ball and adjust in-game. With 10 days before NO, I am confident they will find some answers. I won't guarantee a win, but they will be better.
 

Cellar-Door

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Thought the O-line was good also Dollar and McCourty most of the rest not great.

Though the people complaining that Gronk struggled to beat Eric Berry make me laugh. Berry is arguably the best safety in the NFL and has been for years.
 

BaseballJones

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We see the phrase "they were unprepared" all the time, mostly with respect to the Red Sox and now here with the Patriots. Did they look unprepared when they absolutely shredded KC's defense on the opening drive? Or when they went up 17-7? Or when they went up 27-21?

They made some huge errors - starting with the very first play of the game Brady missing a WIDE OPEN Allen. But it lasted all game long - the Gronk drop, the fourth down failures, the horrendous coverage problems. But even with all that, this is a game they could have - and really, probably should have - won.

Next week is all about:

1. Getting the defense to play better. I don't think they'll really stop NO, but they need to hold them in check somewhat.

2. Getting the backs involved in the passing game a LOT more.

3. Brady getting things figured out with his new receivers, especially Cooks and Dorsett and Allen. Timing is a big, big deal. They didn't have it last night very often. Their WR depth is crazy thin right now so they'll need to work things out quickly.

I expect another game where both teams are around the 30 point mark. NE may have to put up 35+ to win, but really, they're absolutely capable of that.

Thought the O-line was good also Dollar and McCourty most of the rest not great.

Though the people complaining that Gronk struggled to beat Eric Berry make me laugh. Berry is arguably the best safety in the NFL and has been for years.
Agreed - he's fantastic. And he also mugged Gronk every time down the field and didn't get called at all. There was clear jersey grabbing, the works. So kudos to him for doing it if the refs weren't calling it, but let's not pretend here that that wasn't a big part of it.
 

BroodsSexton

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Though the people complaining that Gronk struggled to beat Eric Berry make me laugh. Berry is arguably the best safety in the NFL and has been for years.
Its more just cognitive dissonance. When they showed the two of them standing next to each other it was like the Altuve/Judge picture.
 

BigSoxFan

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Thought the O-line was good also Dollar and McCourty most of the rest not great.

Though the people complaining that Gronk struggled to beat Eric Berry make me laugh. Berry is arguably the best safety in the NFL and has been for years.
Yes, sometimes other teams have good players too but Gronk is the best TE in league history. He has to win one-on-one matchups. I do think he was held quite a bit but no single player has ever been able to contain Gronk when he's "on". I still think he looked to be running a little gingerly.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Re: Gronk, someone said it upthread but from where I was sitting he looked stiff and slow, and yes he was being held and his jersey tugged but prime Gronk isn't being held down by someone tugging at his jersey. The guy has been through a lot, as much as everyone is looking at Brady's inevitable decline, I am worried we are at the point where Gronk is merely a good player and not a game changer. We'll see.

Brady wasn't good, obviously, but to me the defense is where I am most worried. Slow, confused, out of position, and then quit. Not good.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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We see the phrase "they were unprepared" all the time, mostly with respect to the Red Sox and now here with the Patriots. Did they look unprepared when they absolutely shredded KC's defense on the opening drive? Or when they went up 17-7? Or when they went up 27-21?
They got destroyed by what was essentially a college offense. They continued to throw deep despite no success there and a multitude of options from RBs and TEs. Gronk has 8 inches on whoever covers him and they refused to throw it to him. They failed to convert 2 4th downs and settled for a FG when a TD was easily within reach. They blew a major coverage which resulted in an easy 75 yard TD for KC. And they rolled over and quit late.

Yes, they were completely unprepared for real football last night.
 

dcmissle

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The bigger concern is the lack of coverage in the passing game. We knew that the DL would be an issue - they were in both the running and the passing game. But the utter lack of coverage anywhere on the field was a problem, and one that they need to address. There are ways to hide a bad DL, great coverage players being one of them. But those guys need to show better, or it's going to be a very disappointing season.
The biggest disappointment is, with the game on the line in the 4th quarter, they got beat up then they gave up. There's no way around it, and I don't know if I've seen it before. No freaky turnovers, no special teams debacles. Review the Brady post-game comments.

Don't know what to say about the defense. It was consensus top third, certainly no worse than top half. Donta leaves this game too late to chalk this up to his absence (and if you are so dependent on one guy, you're not very good). If it doesn't improve, everyone miscalculated.

Defense got beat every way imaginable. Game manager puts up multiple 90-yard drives for TDs; they get torched on bombs that were NOT plays on which that game manager got 7 second to throw, so you can't chalk it up to non-existent pass rush.

Took notice early on of CC comments that the Chiefs were going to go deep, which were clearly communicated to him and Michaels by Alex Smith in a production meeting. Reid either saw something or wanted to give Smith a booster shot confidence endorsement; in any case, Pats were badly outcoached.

Nobody should be surprised by Amendola getting dinged -- especially when he's on punt duty too -- or Mitchell getting IR'ed. Underscores why Edelman injury was so devastating. Need to rely more on the running game (apparent commitment to it was nice to see) and the backs generally.

Bright spots -- o-line gave Brady plenty of time; special teams played well apart from a ridiculous punt sequence.
 

Bongorific

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CC wasn't the first to report the Alex Smith is throwing it deep more his year story. It's been reported throughout the offseason that they wanted to let Smoth take more shots downfield this year specifically with Tyfreak.
 

H78

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This one I found jaw-dropping. KC coverage seemed to be getting it done all game, but the game plan's disinterest in throwing to the backs was maddening. Only 8 targets (4 completions), a couple of which were low percentage deep throws to Burkhead. Did they even attempt one screen pass all game? Absurd.
This is another good point. Looking back, there was nothing done to try and help draw the safeties in outside of the largely ineffective run game. Lewis, in particular, looked good on the couple of occasions that he touched the ball.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The biggest disappointment is, with the game on the line in the 4th quarter, they got beat up then they gave up. There's no way around it, and I don't know if I've seen it before. No freaky turnovers, no special teams debacles. Review the Brady post-game comments.

Don't know what to say about the defense. It was consensus top third, certainly no worse than top half. Donta leaves this game too late to chalk this up to his absence (and if you are so dependent on one guy, you're not very good). If it doesn't improve, everyone miscalculated.

Defense got beat every way imaginable. Game manager puts up multiple 90-yard drives for TDs; they get torched on bombs that were NOT plays on which that game manager got 7 second to throw, so you can't chalk it up to non-existent pass rush.

Took notice early on of CC comments that the Chiefs were going to go deep, which were clearly communicated to him and Michaels by Alex Smith in a production meeting. Reid either saw something or wanted to give Smith a booster shot confidence endorsement; in any case, Pats were badly outcoached.

Nobody should be surprised by Amendola getting dinged -- especially when he's on punt duty too -- or Mitchell getting IR'ed. Underscores why Edelman injury was so devastating. Need to rely more on the running game (apparent commitment to it was nice to see) and the backs generally.

Bright spots -- o-line gave Brady plenty of time; special teams played well apart from a ridiculous punt sequence.
Allowing Hunt to simply run around the edge in what was a 100% running situation (and he the only back set to Smith's left) was one of the most bizarre things I've seen.

Edit: Final scoring drive where KC would've happily run out the clock, in case it wasn't clear.
 

dcmissle

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In case anyone missed this nugget --

"The Patriots had been 81-0 at Gillette Stadium when leading at the half in the regular season -- 95-1 counting the postseason -- before the Chiefs came back from a 17-14 halftime deficit. New England also was 105-2 when leading after three quarters as it entered the fourth up 27-21."
 

TheoShmeo

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A few more thoughts.

One, how many times have we seen Tom Brady get that much time in the pocket and not complete passes? My take is that it was an evil combo of Tom being off on some throws (high in several cases) and the receivers simply not getting open. But it's hard to really know with the TV angle and only seeing what the camera is showing.

Two, someone commented negatively about the Roger stuff above ("enough already"). What a non-issue. Last night was the chance for those not in Houston to razz a man who did our team and QB dirty. And razz him from the perfect position of having a SB in the immediate aftermath of the penalties. Suggesting that the fans took it too far last night is absurd. And more to the point, no one could believe that the Roger stuff had anything to do with the outcome.

Three, some will cling to getting Hightower back and of course that was a big loss. But the Chiefs were running and passing all over the Pats from their first drive after the fumble. Until they got in the red zone, it seemed like every play was 9 yards or more. So yeah, the Hightower injury was a factor, but they sucked without him and they sucked with him.

Four, Cooks has got to be better. That third down drop was a killer. He didn't seem to get as much separation as one would have expected.

Five, teamwide tackling, except Devin, was abysmal. Had they just wrapped guys up, so many drives would have looked different.

Six, another Goat was failing to take advantage of the penalty disparity. The Pats are not going to be so lucky in every game.
 

johnmd20

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They got destroyed by what was essentially a college offense. They continued to throw deep despite no success there and a multitude of options from RBs and TEs. Gronk has 8 inches on whoever covers him and they refused to throw it to him. They failed to convert 2 4th downs and settled for a FG when a TD was easily within reach. They blew a major coverage which resulted in an easy 75 yard TD for KC. And they rolled over and quit late.

Yes, they were completely unprepared for real football last night.
They were up 27-21 heading to the 4th quarter. You're being ridiculous in your assertions they were unprepared for real football. What is real football anyway?
 

Stitch01

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A few more thoughts.

One, how many times have we seen Tom Brady get that much time in the pocket and not complete passes? My take is that it was an evil combo of Tom being off on some throws (high in several cases) and the receivers simply not getting open. But it's hard to really know with the TV angle and only seeing what the camera is showing.

Two, someone commented negatively about the Roger stuff above ("enough already"). What a non-issue. Last night was the chance for those not in Houston to razz a man who did our team and QB dirty. And razz him from the perfect position of having a SB in the immediate aftermath of the penalties. Suggesting that the fans took it too far last night is absurd. And more to the point, no one could believe that the Roger stuff had anything to do with the outcome.

Three, some will cling to getting Hightower back and of course that was a big loss. But the Chiefs were running and passing all over the Pats from their first drive after the fumble. Until they got in the red zone, it seemed like every play was 9 yards or more. So yeah, the Hightower injury was a factor, but they sucked without him and they sucked with him.

Four, Cooks has got to be better. That third down drop was a killer. He didn't seem to get as much separation as one would have expected.

Five, teamwide tackling, except Devin, was abysmal. Had they just wrapped guys up, so many drives would have looked different.

Six, another Goat was failing to take advantage of the penalty disparity. The Pats are not going to be so lucky in every game.
Didnt look like a lot of guys open to me at the game, but what do I know.

Roger stuff wasnt really in play during the game. He got booed once pregame and then a half hearted show of towels right before kickoff...and that was kind of it. I think its a stretch to say that had anything to do with the outcome.

Cooks in NO was a big play boom/bust HR threat. Maybe he turns into a guy that moves the chains, but that's not who hes been to this point in his career. He was short of the first down on the drop too, so at least he had that going for him.

Shit night, it happens.
 

Stitch01

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They were up 27-21 heading to the 4th quarter. You're being ridiculous in your assertions they were unprepared for real football. What is real football anyway?
Its just his way of emotional venting, trying to address it logically is senseless.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Re: Brady throwing deep, again from my vantage point I didn't see many times when he was looking past open receivers underneath and then chucking. On a lot of those plays he had time and was going through his progressions and there was nothing there, so he heaved it. KC was doing a good job of jamming everyone in the middle and underneath and forcing the Pats to beat them outside the numbers and deep. It worked a few times until it didn't.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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They were up 27-21 heading to the 4th quarter. You're being ridiculous in your assertions they were unprepared for real football. What is real football anyway?
How about winning the fucking game at home against a quality opponent instead of getting rolled up out of the stadium? They gave up two 75 yeard TD bombs and a couple more 90+ yard drives. And they quit late.

The 27-21 line is meaningless, since with any kind of reasonable execution on 4th downs and in the red zone the margin would have been higher. They stunk out the joint last night. I can't think of any aspect of the game they did well except Ghost not missing XPs so far this year.
 

Super Nomario

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Snap counts are up at pro football reference: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201709070nwe.htm

Man, they are paying David Harris a lot of money to play two snaps on defense all game (even with Hightower hurt).

Trey Flowers played every defensive snap. That's impressive and probably not ideal.

Three of the top / five six players in special teams snaps - Marsh, Marquis Flowers, and Bademosi - arrived in the past couple weeks. Impressive that they didn't screw anything major up.
 
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IdiotKicker

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The 27-21 line is meaningless, since with any kind of reasonable execution on 4th downs and in the red zone the margin would have been higher.
I would argue the fact that they scored 27 points with such crappy execution is a pretty good sign that the offense will be ok. Like, they looked bad - but they still scored 27 with almost nothing working consistently. The offense will come.

The defense...the defense is a cluster at the moment, and while there's room to believe the secondary can get better, I'm not sure about the front.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I would argue the fact that they scored 27 points with such crappy execution is a pretty good sign that the offense will be ok. Like, they looked bad - but they still scored 27 with almost nothing working consistently. The offense will come.

The defense...the defense is a cluster at the moment, and while there's room to believe the secondary can get better, I'm not sure about the front.
They recovered a fumble deep in KC territory early with a chance to hammer the game away and got nothing. Really terrible turn of downs there.

I don't understand the offensive mindset AT ALL. Your WRs are getting no separation all night and Brady is a bit off, but instead of using the 5 catching RBs on the roster to get some yards they insisted on throwing deep. Not smart. Losing Danny hurt a lot, but if the entire offense is predicated on having an Edelman type running Welker routes, then they're in deep trouble.
 

j44thor

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Everyone saying Brady was off, at least live it didn't look like he had many open receivers. For whatever reason they were forcing the ball to the boundaries and his receivers had little separation there. I think a lot of the high throws were just throw aways. One absolute killer was the back to back running the kicker, cost about 25yds in field position. Just inexcusable to do it 2x in a row.
 

BigSoxFan

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I would argue the fact that they scored 27 points with such crappy execution is a pretty good sign that the offense will be ok. Like, they looked bad - but they still scored 27 with almost nothing working consistently. The offense will come.

The defense...the defense is a cluster at the moment, and while there's room to believe the secondary can get better, I'm not sure about the front.
I refuse to believe that a secondary with McCourty, Gilmore, Butler, Harmon, and Rowe is going to be a bad unit. Too much talent there to stink up the joint consistently. The obvious concern is that a lot of pressure is going to be placed on them if the seemingly mediocre at best front 7 doesn't notably improve. Flowers is going to get exhausted this year, Hightower is already hurt, and nobody else is even remotely troublesome for opposing OCs to deal with. Malcom Brown continues to disappoint me at almost every turn.
 

Stitch01

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They recovered a fumble deep in KC territory early with a chance to hammer the game away and got nothing. Really terrible turn of downs there.

I don't understand the offensive mindset AT ALL. Your WRs are getting no separation all night and Brady is a bit off, but instead of using the 5 catching RBs on the roster to get some yards they insisted on throwing deep. Not smart. Losing Danny hurt a lot, but if the entire offense is predicated on having an Edelman type running Welker routes, then they're in deep trouble.
I know. They have very little track record of being able to solve problems with the offense through varying personnel changes and injuries and they're only on pace for 432 points. Its probably deep trouble.
 

johnmd20

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How about winning the fucking game at home against a quality opponent instead of getting rolled up out of the stadium? They gave up two 75 yeard TD bombs and a couple more 90+ yard drives. And they quit late.

The 27-21 line is meaningless, since with any kind of reasonable execution on 4th downs and in the red zone the margin would have been higher. They stunk out the joint last night. I can't think of any aspect of the game they did well except Ghost not missing XPs so far this year.
So 27-21, the actual score, is meaningless but your assertion they were unprepared for real football is meaningful?

The Pats lost yesterday, the defense got shredded, and Brady couldn't find anyone open. It happens. Kansas City wasn't going to just lay down and the guy on the other side of the line lives in a mansion, too.

It's hard to believe you could have watched as many games as you have and come down with the conclusion the team wasn't prepared for real football, played by real men, instead of maybe saying, "They just got beat by a team that played better."

With that said, a couple of plays go their way, particularly the Gronk reversal, and the game is completely different. Maybe if the Gronk play wasn't reversed, the Pats would have looked like they wanted to play real football.
 

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If you think there were positives to take from last night, knock yourself out. Kumbaya and all that.

If you think they looked prepared last night, that's your prerogative. I totally disagree, they had many, many basic mistakes and blown coverages. Those aren't the usual hallmarks of a BB-coached team, which leads me to think they were not ready to play.

Of course they got beat by a team that played better last night. The question is why did that happen, and why didn't the Pats have any answers for what the Chiefs were doing. Why was the offensive gameplan so atrociously stubborn? Why did the defense turn Alex Smith into Dan Marino?

The season's not over. But last night was a dumpster fire.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Re: Gronk, someone said it upthread but from where I was sitting he looked stiff and slow, and yes he was being held and his jersey tugged but prime Gronk isn't being held down by someone tugging at his jersey. The guy has been through a lot, as much as everyone is looking at Brady's inevitable decline, I am worried we are at the point where Gronk is merely a good player and not a game changer. We'll see.

Brady wasn't good, obviously, but to me the defense is where I am most worried. Slow, confused, out of position, and then quit. Not good.
When the score was, I think 17-7, they got the ball in very good field position with about 4:30 in the half. They went three and out with Gronk on the sideline for all three plays. I know that not every series features a TE, but that was a huge series. Why is he not there on that series? Even one first down and you probably deprive KC a chance to score at the end of the half.
 

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When the score was, I think 17-7, they got the ball in very good field position with about 4:30 in the half. They went three and out with Gronk on the sideline for all three plays. I know that not every series features a TE, but that was a huge series. Why is he not there on that series? Even one first down and you probably deprive KC a chance to score at the end of the half.
I think Gronk was banged up. He got up slowly from the TD catch that was reversed.
 

edmunddantes

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The D wasn't ready to play in the sense there were multiple series where pre-snap the players were jockeying and looking at each other trying to figure out how they were going to line up against KC's offense. And didn't have it figured out fully before the ball was snapped.

More importantly the confusion wasn't due to KC putting out tons of exotic looks or going up tempo. It was basic offensive alignments vs defensive alignments. They were actually saved by several big plays by McCourty from getting gashed even worse then they did.
 

jcd0805

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They got destroyed by what was essentially a college offense. They continued to throw deep despite no success there and a multitude of options from RBs and TEs. Gronk has 8 inches on whoever covers him and they refused to throw it to him. They failed to convert 2 4th downs and settled for a FG when a TD was easily within reach. They blew a major coverage which resulted in an easy 75 yard TD for KC. And they rolled over and quit late.
.
They threw to Gronk to their detriment in the first half I thought, he had several misses that he normally hauls in.
 

Stitch01

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I refuse to believe that a secondary with McCourty, Gilmore, Butler, Harmon, and Rowe is going to be a bad unit. Too much talent there to stink up the joint consistently. The obvious concern is that a lot of pressure is going to be placed on them if the seemingly mediocre at best front 7 doesn't notably improve. Flowers is going to get exhausted this year, Hightower is already hurt, and nobody else is even remotely troublesome for opposing OCs to deal with. Malcom Brown continues to disappoint me at almost every turn.
It wasnt really the secondary that was the issue. Obviously Gilmore blew the coverage on the long Hill TD but it wasnt really the the secondary getting chewed up as much as the slooooow LB core getting exposed (and Richards I guess, but he was playing in an LB type role) There's reasons to think this will be an ongoing problem, the high draft capital spent on defensive players over the last five years hasnt really turned into much in the way of front seven talent beyond Flowers and Brown (who's more of a plugger) so a little lighter on talent and athleticism there than ideal.

If you think there were positives to take from last night, knock yourself out.

The season's not over. But last night was a dumpster fire.

It was terrible, but I dont understand why every loss means the team must have been unprepared or "weren't ready for battle" or every bad performance is inexcusable. But whatever, we all vent in our own way and last night sucked. I wouldnt say there were no positives on offense, but certainly not the best start to the season.

When the score was, I think 17-7, they got the ball in very good field position with about 4:30 in the half. They went three and out with Gronk on the sideline for all three plays. I know that not every series features a TE, but that was a huge series. Why is he not there on that series? Even one first down and you probably deprive KC a chance to score at the end of the half.

Meh, if up 10 with good field position is a huge series sort of every possession is a huge series so not sure when Gronk is supposed to sit. Not like he was super productive in the passing game when he was in there and he did look to get a bit shaken up on the non TD.
 

BaseballJones

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They got destroyed by what was essentially a college offense. They continued to throw deep despite no success there and a multitude of options from RBs and TEs. Gronk has 8 inches on whoever covers him and they refused to throw it to him. They failed to convert 2 4th downs and settled for a FG when a TD was easily within reach. They blew a major coverage which resulted in an easy 75 yard TD for KC. And they rolled over and quit late.

Yes, they were completely unprepared for real football last night.
I'll re-ask the question. Were they unprepared for KC when they went up 17-7 or 27-21?

I think they played a terrible, uncharacteristically terrible, game. I don't think that necessarily = unprepared. Sometimes they just sucked. I don't think Brady was unprepared. There's nothing he hasn't seen before. He made bad reads and sometimes just missed wide open receivers. KC's all-pro defenders (Houston and Berry) played incredibly well. Gronk dropping a TD wasn't the result of being "unprepared". Dude just dropped a TD.

Maybe they were unprepared. I don't know. That term gets thrown around almost every time our favorite team loses. When a pitcher strikes out 9 Red Sox, the complaints are "they were so unprepared for this" as if it's not possible for a pitcher to strike out a lot of batters in today's game.

Put it this way: With this coaching staff, one thing I'm generally not concerned about is whether or not they are prepared for the game. Sure they can screw up too - they're human. But it's about the least of my worries with the Patriots.
 

j44thor

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When the score was, I think 17-7, they got the ball in very good field position with about 4:30 in the half. They went three and out with Gronk on the sideline for all three plays. I know that not every series features a TE, but that was a huge series. Why is he not there on that series? Even one first down and you probably deprive KC a chance to score at the end of the half.
I was very uneasy when NE took a timeout on 2nd and 7 with 2:08 left when KC was deep in their own end. If they don't take it KC prob has a different strategy coming out of the 2min.
 

TheoShmeo

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It was terrible, but I dont understand why every loss means the team must have been unprepared or "weren't ready for battle" or every bad performance is inexcusable. But whatever, we all vent in our own way and last night sucked. I wouldnt say there were no positives on offense, but certainly not the best start to the season.
You're generally right. But they looked sort of flat and emotionless to me at times and, regardless of what my amateur, pop psychologist eyes saw, Tom spoke more about their lack of enthusiasm in the wake of the loss than I am used to hearing. Tom always sounds morose after a loss, no doubt. But I don't think he usually puts the focus on player focus as much as he did last night. My recollection is that it's usually more about failure to execute and the need for TB12 to play better.
 

TFisNEXT

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When the score was, I think 17-7, they got the ball in very good field position with about 4:30 in the half. They went three and out with Gronk on the sideline for all three plays. I know that not every series features a TE, but that was a huge series. Why is he not there on that series? Even one first down and you probably deprive KC a chance to score at the end of the half.
That was a huge moment in the game...I was thinking the Patriots go in and score there effectively putting the game away at halftime at 24-7. But then they allow a 90+ yard TD drive before the half to close it to 17-14. That's the kind of stuff you rarely see from the Patriots.
 

Stitch01

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You're generally right. But they looked sort of flat and emotionless to me at times and, regardless of what my amateur, pop psychologist eyes saw, Tom spoke more about their lack of enthusiasm in the wake of the loss than I am used to hearing. Tom always sounds morose after a loss, no doubt. But I don't think he usually puts the focus on player focus as much as he did last night. My recollection is that it's usually more about failure to execute and the need for TB12 to play better.
He was frustrated that they got rolled in the fourth quarter and never really fought back, and with cause.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Sadly I think the "they were unprepared" argument is letting them off the hook, at least on the defensive side. Really just seemed like their talent on the defensive side of the ball couldn't keep up with the Chiefs' talent on the offensive side of the ball and I'm not sure how you fix that other than with trades, etc. I also agree that Hightower seemed off even before his injury - there were a few times he bit way too hard on playaction or otherwise seemed to be purposefully avoiding the right angle to make a tackle. Hope that is just rust or the result of miscommunications on D and not because he was already nursing an injury.

Edit: And to the extent the coaching staff deserves blame - and I think it does - I would say it was less about having the team "prepared" and more about just putting together a totally incorrect game plan. It's clear that (on offense at least) they saw something on film from last year or this preseason that told them they thought they could throw downfield and that was just totally wrong, perhaps because Reid knew that was a previous vulnerability and worked to correct it. Now why they didn't change the gameplan in the second half after their initial plan clearly failed - that I don't know.
 

mikeot

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This was an ass kicking by KC because of a good gameplan and great execution.

For all of his faults, Andy Reid is really a brilliant offensive play caller. it is going to take years for him to catch up to Smith's intelligence at running the offense. When Reid has time to prepare for a game he is an excellent coach; and he really created a gameplan that destroyed the Patriots.

Defensively they played about as well as you could hope. They rarely blitzed and allowed Brady to have time in the pocket, but utilized the numbers they had in zone to lock down receivers. Ideally, receivers running shorter, crossing routes would be able to exploit this, but with Edelman out the Pats didn't have the right personnel. Amendola was a suitable replacement and when he was in the game he was both productive and the Patriots were able to move the ball much better, but when he went down that left the Pats two main receivers were Hogan and Cooks and they are vertical threats, which is why we saw so many deep balls late. In the future I think we will see more of White/Lewis/Burkhead split out wide to help exploit this kind of a defense. I also think they should have targeted Gronk more; I'm of the belief that even if he is covered he is still open because he can outmuscle guys for the ball.
I expect that every time for the rest of his career that Brady has a clunker, there will be an "oh no, is this it" reaction. . Brady was subpar tonight, but he's not my biggest concern. The defense was so awful.
This one I found jaw-dropping. KC coverage seemed to be getting it done all game, but the game plan's disinterest in throwing to the backs was maddening. Only 8 targets (4 completions), a couple of which were low percentage deep throws to Burkhead. Did they even attempt one screen pass all game? Absurd.
They have the greatest TE in league history and they refused to throw to him last night.

They have 4 RBs who can catch the ball and they refused to throw to them last night.

They flat out sucked on defense, as if they had never seen an option or shovel screen before. Their $65 million CB forgot what scheme they were running and allowed an easy 75 yard TD, which wasn't the only long TD of the night. Cassius Marsh is a horrible player and the trashiest-looking one I've ever seen to boot.

The entire night was terrible from beginning (Gronk TD drop, failed 4th down convert, failure to get a TD and settling for a FG) to the very end (they allowed Captain Checkdown to look like Dan Fucking Marino).

The whole debacle was completely inexcusable. They looked totally unprepared for a real opponent. Did they forget KC went 12-4 last year? Or was it simply that they had reached the tipping point of ex-Bills on the roster and reverted to playing like the Bills?

In any case they're in trouble. Brees is gonna drop 600 yards on them next week if they play like this again.
There's been a lot of hype about Brady throwing long, having as good of an arm as ever, and having a lot of weapons. Granted he was missing Edelman and Amendola but it sure looked like Brady was pressing for huge gains rather than "managing the clock" through short pick-ups as has been typical. When Brady is going out there trading bombs with Alex Smith, something is wrong. It looked like he missed a lot of shorter 3-4 yard pick ups.

I honestly have no idea how Berry was covering Gronk. Holding or not, just throw it over his head. Gronk has to have an 8" height advantage.

I do also wonder if the Pats view these early games as extended preseason--it's not that they are not focused on winning, but the nature of the beast is that they are still going to be working things out at full speed, particularly with many new players. It seems like every year it takes a while for them to rev up and click. That doesn't excuse the atrocities we saw last night, but rather amplifies them.
We know Brady is all about precise routes and trusting his guys. Look at some of Aaron Rodgers stat-lines when he was adjusting to life without Jordy Nelson, this kind of thing happens. Brady sucked, but no Edelman and Amendola is a huge deal. This team's track record suggests they'll figure it out on offense though, because talent is there. Maybe we just temper expectations a bit, especially if Amendola is out for awhile.

The defense is much tougher to be optimistic about. Belichick has his work cut out for him there.
We see the phrase "they were unprepared" all the time, mostly with respect to the Red Sox and now here with the Patriots. Did they look unprepared when they absolutely shredded KC's defense on the opening drive? Or when they went up 17-7? Or when they went up 27-21?

They made some huge errors - starting with the very first play of the game Brady missing a WIDE OPEN Allen. But it lasted all game long - the Gronk drop, the fourth down failures, the horrendous coverage problems. But even with all that, this is a game they could have - and really, probably should have - won.

Next week is all about:

1. Getting the defense to play better. I don't think they'll really stop NO, but they need to hold them in check somewhat.

2. Getting the backs involved in the passing game a LOT more.

3. Brady getting things figured out with his new receivers, especially Cooks and Dorsett and Allen. Timing is a big, big deal. They didn't have it last night very often. Their WR depth is crazy thin right now so they'll need to work things out quickly.

I expect another game where both teams are around the 30 point mark. NE may have to put up 35+ to win, but really, they're absolutely capable of that.



Agreed - he's fantastic. And he also mugged Gronk every time down the field and didn't get called at all. There was clear jersey grabbing, the works. So kudos to him for doing it if the refs weren't calling it, but let's not pretend here that that wasn't a big part of it.

We're on to New Orleans ....
 

Todd Benzinger

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SJH is right: better 4th down execution, and they win. So, why no Brady sneaks? Is that play officially off the table forever now? Not even break glass in emergency?I know they've been more and more reluctant to use it... They essentially ran the same RB play over and over in those scenarios, and the Chiefs were ready the first time. They need new, actually effective 4th and inches plays. Or they need to stop planning for 75% success converting in those situations and just get the FG or punt.

For those asking why Gronk played such a minimal role--they went to him a decent amount early, and he was 1-4 on targets early on. He was covered well, for sure, but he also looked completely gassed out there in the 1st quarter when the camera caught him at the end of plays.

Given all the new personnel and the reasonable reluctance to play the stars in the preseason, I do think there was tons of rust for some key guys, and also it was clear that the team has not gelled on either side of the ball.

Maybe BB/Josh can take some inspiration from Reid and get their 4 dynamic RBs more deeply involved in the offensive gameplan.
 

RG33

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I am not worried at all.

Secondary looked porous, but it will be fixed.

Belichick will manage the D Line so they close up the holes.

The offense will be fine. This game easily could have been 21-7 Pats at the half, and it was 27-21 in the 4th quarter for God's sake.

It was not a good effort, but it does not signify anything other than it was not a good effort.

The last 3 times the Pats lost the opener. . . . . .well, you know.
 

tims4wins

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I was very uneasy when NE took a timeout on 2nd and 7 with 2:08 left when KC was deep in their own end. If they don't take it KC prob has a different strategy coming out of the 2min.
Totally disagree. If they don't use the timeout, the clock bleeds 7 seconds to the 2 minute warning, at which point the Pats still have all 3 timeouts. If they run twice and punt, the Pats get the ball back with like 1:40 left plus a timeout in great field position. I don't think the play call changes at all, they throw it either way.
 

DanoooME

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Cassius Marsh is a horrible player and the trashiest-looking one I've ever seen to boot.
Allow me as a more neutral observer (OK, I admit I was rooting for the Chiefs) to comment on Marsh. I will concede he looks more appropriate in a biker gang motorcycle club than a huddle, but he does have a nerdy side (he's huge Magic: The Gathering fan - I'm sure he was disappointed to leave Seattle since they are the home of Wizards of the Coast, who make the game) and he's not as bad of a player as he looked. I think some of it had to do with the fact that he only had a few days to learn the defense, which is significantly different than Seattle's. The rest of the problem is he was forced into doing things he doesn't do. In Seattle, he played a ton on ST and when he was in on defense, it was purely as an outside pass rusher (the LEO slot). When I saw he was responsible for Hunt on that TD catch to take the lead, I just shook my head, because I don't think he ever covered anyone one on one in his time in Seattle. He's a pass rusher, plain and simple. He can stop the run and get to the QB, but coverage isn't in his repertoire. It's not easy to switch from a 4-3 zone coverage team to a 3-4 team that does a lot less zone. He's too small to play as a 3-4 DE, so there's no choice but for him to play OLB. He'll need to learn to do better in coverage to survive. But the Pats are better off using him purely in a pass rush unless they drop into zone until he gets a lot better in coverage in practice, which may take weeks, and he may never get very good at that aspect. He won't ever be Ninkovich, but if they do a better job of picking spots for him, he can be useful. Some of what happened last night I'm sure was injury-driven too.

And one last thing to not forget. The Pats lost to a pretty good team in the Chiefs; it's not like they were playing the Bills or Jets and fell apart. They have 5 games against decent (not great) teams coming up. That should tell a better story of what kind of team the Pats are. Worry if you need to after that stretch.
 

tims4wins

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SJH is right: better 4th down execution, and they win. So, why no Brady sneaks? Is that play officially off the table forever now? Not even break glass in emergency?I know they've been more and more reluctant to use it... They essentially ran the same RB play over and over in those scenarios, and the Chiefs were ready the first time. They need new, actually effective 4th and inches plays. Or they need to stop planning for 75% success converting in those situations and just get the FG or punt.

For those asking why Gronk played such a minimal role--they went to him a decent amount early, and he was 1-4 on targets early on. He was covered well, for sure, but he also looked completely gassed out there in the 1st quarter when the camera caught him at the end of plays.

Given all the new personnel and the reasonable reluctance to play the stars in the preseason, I do think there was tons of rust for some key guys, and also it was clear that the team has not gelled on either side of the ball.

Maybe BB/Josh can take some inspiration from Reid and get their 4 dynamic RBs more deeply involved in the offensive gameplan.
KC was completing clogging the A gap on those plays. They were prepared. Can't try to sneak it when the entire area in front of Brady is jammed.