The Game Goat Thread: Week 10 at Tennessee

[SeoulSoxFan]

I'm starting this sucker early and get the stink off of it. The Patriots now are off on a bye. The good news is that they face the Jets when they come back (NYJ looks like the worst team in the league right now.)

Afterward, NE gets to face the Phins, Bills, then the Jets again (with a home game against the Vikes and away at Pittsburgh sprinkled in-between).

Now the goats. There's a herd of them:

• Brady: this is the worst looking TB game I can remember. Has he ever been taken out with 7 minutes to go?
• The coaching staff: Vrabel seemed to have the entire NE playbook in his back pocket. BB, McD & company didn't bring much to counter it
• 2G: both Gordon and Gilmore had stinkers of the year

Forget about the seedings. It's time to get healthy and get energy back on this team. I can't remember such a lethargic performance in a long time.

 

[DJnVa]

All of them.

Lock the thread.

 

[heavyde050]

Gilmore
Offensive line
Coaches
Brady

 

[heavyde050]

All of them.

Lock the thread.

Winner

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

This team was sweaty ass in all 3 phases including the horrible coaching for all of the punting.

Good news is they play the Jets after the bye.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Is there anyone who doesn’t belong on the list? Edelman maybe. That’s it.

 

[j44thor]

Be easier to determine who isn't a goat this week.
I think Jules played well and maybe White for the few touches he had.
No one on D comes to mind though Van Noy did have a ton of tackles.

 

[eddiew112]

I wonder if there was a flu bug running through the team. A shit ton of players looked lethargic and out of sorts.

Special teams was the worst unit, and it's been garbage all year. We have a lot of special team aces that aren't doing shit right now

 

[axx]

Maybe they were thinking about the bye week a little too much?

 

[Ale Xander]

Brady
Gilmore
coaching staff
Cannon

 

[DJnVa]

Head into bye 7-3, get healthy, shake whatever the hell today was, and hope Chiefs drop some games (Rams? Chargers?) down the stretch.

We're onto the bye!

 

[DeadlySplitter]

lethargic? this is what they are if Gronk is going to be like this (out or barely a factor).

3 or 4 seed, likely to win one playoff game but no more than that. that's exactly what they are right now.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

The Patriots have been poor in all 5 road games.

So maybe it’s that plane they bought.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Front seven was poor against the run, but you are winning just about zero games with ten points, including zero in the second half.

Offense was riddled with problems. Hogan was ass, Tom missed some throws when the game was within reach, and the OL was a revolving door of awful.

Some punts on fourth down inside the Titans 45 with 4-5 yards to go we’re awful as well.

 

[DJnVa]

lethargic? this is what they are if Gronk is going to be like this (out or barely a factor).

They've played without Gronk before. Like, you know, last week.

 

[soxin6]

lethargic? this is what they are if Gronk is going to be like this (out or barely a factor).

3 or 4 seed, likely to win one playoff game but no more than that. that's exactly what they are right now.

Couldn’t agree more

 

[Van Everyman]

Weirdly I’m not losing my mind over this game. Yes, they played terribly in just about every phase but I also think they were hoping to save Gronk in a game when they probably needed him given Gordon’s finger. This felt a lot like last year’s Dolphins game as a result.

I also think there were several plays on both sides of the ball where the atrocious turf hurt the Pats. One of the big Davis conversions on Gilmore in the second half comes to mind when it had seemed they had staunched the bleeding from the first quarter.

I would also say the DPI calls on Gilmore were very soft, very impactful and not called evenly on the Titans. None of which is to say that they deserved to win by any stretch but almost all those calls came at opportune moments that extended drives.

As for goats, mine goes to Waddle – he looked terrible.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

lethargic? this is what they are if Gronk is going to be like this (out or barely a factor).

3 or 4 seed, likely to win one playoff game but no more than that. that's exactly what they are right now.

God, shut the fuck up with the fatalist bullshit. This is the worst the offense has looked in a long time. This is not, suddenly, the standard for what to expect.

GTFO with this nonsense.

 

[j44thor]

Dean Pees is probably the best D Coordinator against Brady. Can't find all-time stats but he was 2-2 against him in BAL and held him to an 11-10 TD-INT ratio.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Worried about the road woes. These are not world-beaters against whom they have been pretty pedestrian.

Confident they can do the usual late season steamrolling into January but game over if they can’t get their shit together on the road. Saving grace is that none of the top teams are particularly scary on D. But they are all MUCH scarier on O than the low-talent squad they assed against today.

 

[Saints Rest]

How tight are Vrabel and Patricia? Because this was Detroit redux. The QB pass almost seemed like a troll job.

So I put this loss on the coaching staff. There was very little obvious that showed they were ready to attack or to adjust. How could a defense that looked so good against Green Bay and Rodgers look like such shit today? The offense seemed to beat its head against the same closed door over and over with no useful adjustments to what Tenn was bringing.
And it’s time (way, way, way past time) to put the 2017 and earlier kickoff strategy of kicking to the 1 in mothballs. Tell Ghost to boom it out and take your chances from the 25.

 

[splendid splinter]

Whoever said Brady locks onto Gordon is right, in my opinion. He has Randy Moss Disease when it comes to Josh. He forces throws he shouldn’t because he’s banking on 10 coming down with it somehow.

 

[timelysarcasm]

Brady has looked real bad, missing a lot of throws, forcing balls, and turtling with a little pressure.

Hogan is invisible and special teams is uncharacteristically ass this year.

Hope they can get it worked out during the bye.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Worried about the road woes. These are not world-beaters against whom they have been pretty pedestrian.

Confident they can do the usual late season steamrolling into January but game over if they can’t get their shit together on the road. Saving grace is that none of the top teams are particularly scary on D. But they are all MUCH scarier on O than the low-talent squad they assed against today.

This is setting up to be a problem. They are on the outside looking in for a bye now.

That means one and potentially two very tough games even if they win the division game.

 

[BaseballJones]

Let’s of goats. Just remember that wining on the road is very difficult in the NFL and whenever they can get a road win against a decent or good team, that’s a really good thing, no matter the score.

So losing on the road to a solid team is going to happen to most teams a lot.

 

[alydar]

Especially on the road, such a different team when playing from ahead than behind. They gave up a fast 7, on some poor special teams (JUST KICK IT INTO THE END ZONE), and never really got in sync on offense. Hopefully that was more about a patchwork offensive line than anything else, and health is all that's really needed. Has there been a game yet this year where Gronk, Edelman, Gordon, White, and Michel have all been active?

Defense was not atrocious, given that Tennessee was often starting at about midfield, but of course they never made a play to get them back in it (unlike against GB, where a big turnover really swung a game that was tightening up). I'm on optimist in that I think the D might just be good enough to pair with an excellent offense. But when they don't have an excellent offense, this D isn't winning you any games.

 

[DJnVa]

Whoever said Brady locks onto Gordon is right, in my opinion. He has Randy Moss Disease when it comes to Josh. He forces throws he shouldn’t because he’s banking on 10 coming down with it somehow.

Was forcing it to Moss a bad thing? In the long run, the more throws to Gordon the better, it will payoff.

And Edelman had more targets than Gordon.

 

[splendid splinter]

Was forcing it to Moss a bad thing? In the long run, the more throws to Gordon the better, it will payoff.

And Edelman had more targets than Gordon.

In my opinion, yes. I recall more than a few situations where he threw deep to Moss when I would have preferred they work it down the field, and drives stalled. I see some of the same stuff with Gordon. He threw him a ball in triple coverage today - that seems unlike him. I know Edelman was targeted a lot, I just think he throws to Gordon when he shouldn’t when he gets frustrated.

 

[bankshot1]

There really was nothing positive to take away from that game. The best to hope for was that it was an anomaly and the bye week and healthier players will render it less damning. The worst, its a preview of the future.

 

[DJnVa]

In my opinion, yes. I recall more than a few situations where he threw deep to Moss when I would have preferred they work it down the field, and drives stalled.

Huh.

So in your mind, Brady could have been even better than he was in 2007 if he had played differently and didn't stall drives by throwing it to Moss? Interesting.

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

Huh.

So in your mind, Brady could have been even better than he was in 2007 if he had played differently and didn't stall drives by throwing it to Moss? Interesting.

When did Josh Gordon become 2007 Randy Moss? This analogy is insane. Tom forcing the ball into triple coverage to Gordan is wrong no matter what happened over a decade ago with Moss.

 

[Dogman]

Me. I was in attendance.

WR route trees were zero. WR ran straight patterns all day and no switching up depending on what the D gave them. OLine looked horrible. Brady had nothing all day.

Last game in attendance for me was in Green Bay. That season turned out pretty damn good.

 

[DJnVa]

When did Josh Gordon become 2007 Randy Moss? This analogy is insane. Tom forcing the ball into triple coverage to Gordan is wrong no matter what happened over a decade ago with Moss.

No one said Gordon was Moss. There are 2 separate thoughts in one post.

1-The more throws to Gordon the better. I did not say to throw into triple coverage. I do think Gordon is a different type of receiver than we've had before. Whe Brady throws the ball to Gordon and he outjumps 2 guys for the catch we love it. This was the other side. You can't have one without the other.


2-A poster seemed to think Brady forced it too much to Moss and stalled drives. Outside of anecdotal stuff, that's laughable.

 

[RG33]

TB12 — Worst I have seen him look with an almost-full-squad in I don’t know how long. He looked slow, indecisivie, had some noodle-armed throws. Was disconcerting.

O-Line — Shaq Mason is being missed. They have not been great with interior rushes/penetration.

McDaniels — Seemed similar to Detroit where Matty P. shutdown the James White dump-downs, knew they could control the outside, and just jammed the middle. This concerns me the most of everything once every team we play now has two weeks’ of film to mimic.

 

[Dollar]

2-A poster seemed to think Brady forced it too much to Moss and stalled drives. Outside of anecdotal stuff, that's laughable.

I don't think he's referring to 2007 Moss. In late 2009 and early 2010, Brady absolutely forced it to Moss in tight situations where he was double- or triple-covered and it stalled many a drive. I noticed the same thing with some of the passes to Gordon the past few weeks, especially today. Once Moss was traded, Brady started spreading the ball around to Gronk, Hernandez, and Woodhead and the offense really took off.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

WR ran straight patterns all day

Interesting. I'd like to see the game film on Hogan because he's just not contributing in useful way for this team. From what I could tell Dorsett didn't do anything to warrant being a ghost for this team once Gordon showed up and Edelman came back.

 

[McBride11]

Interesting. I'd like to see the game film on Hogan because he's just not contributing in useful way for this team. From what I could tell Dorsett didn't do anything to warrant being a ghost for this team once Gordon showed up and Edelman came back.

I think Gordon basically slotted in Dorsett's spot. But Hogan seems to have disappeared. Try Dorsett there he was def showing something before Gordon showed up.

Gordon had a bad drop, slipped bad on another, had a missed DPI against, but TB12's balls weren't very great the rest of the targets.

But let's be honest, everyone but Hoyer is the GOAT this game.
O-line has 2 weeks to get healthy. Michel has 2 weeks to get healthy.
Let's go!

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Can we take a moment to recognize how insane it is that “3 or 4 seed and one playoff win” isn’t considered a successful season for this team?

I mean I know it isn’t given what they have accomplished, but the bar is kind of insanely high if we can’t appreciate a season like that. Most teams would absolutely take that at the start of the season.

 

[JokersWildJIMED]

Titans have a very good defense. Michel was terrible and White wasn’t much better. A lot of the problems on offense were related to the line, but not all. Brady was off...again
Special teams were horrific, and defense...3rd down conversions and RPO killed them.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Can we take a moment to recognize how insane it is that “3 or 4 seed and one playoff win” isn’t considered a successful season for this team?

I mean I know it isn’t given what they have accomplished, but the bar is kind of insanely high if we can’t appreciate a season like that. Most teams would absolutely take that at the start of the season.

I was thinking the same thing reading this thread - for any other team in the AFC East that would be their best season in roughly a decade.

 

[EddieYost]

2-A poster seemed to think Brady forced it too much to Moss and stalled drives. Outside of anecdotal stuff, that's laughable.

To be fair he was talking about Moss just before the Pats traded him away.

Edit - or what dollar said

 

[heavyde050]

Brady has looked real bad, missing a lot of throws, forcing balls, and turtling with a little pressure.

Hogan is invisible and special teams is uncharacteristically ass this year.

Hope they can get it worked out during the bye.

There was a ton of pressure on Brady today. He didn’t look good, but not sure how one can say “little pressure”

 

[DJnVa]

To be fair he was talking about Moss just before the Pats traded him away.

Edit - or what dollar said

Okay, let's go with that, to avoid clogging up the thread. But he didn't actually say that. And I didn't liken Gordon to a washed up Moss, which is what a 2010 Moss was.

Did every Titans drive start around midfield? That opening KO return set the tone for the whole game.

 

[DJnVa]

Brady has looked real bad, missing a lot of throws, forcing balls, and turtling with a little pressure.

Was under pressure all day today.

 

[heavyde050]

TB12 — Worst I have seen him look with an almost-full-squad in I don’t know how long. He looked slow, indecisivie, had some noodle-armed throws. Was disconcerting.

O-Line — Shaq Mason is being missed. They have not been great with interior rushes/penetration.

McDaniels — Seemed similar to Detroit where Matty P. shutdown the James White dump-downs, knew they could control the outside, and just jammed the middle. This concerns me the most of everything once every team we play now has two weeks’ of film to mimic.

Almost full-squad? Was missing his best TE, his best interior OL, and had his best tackle in and out most of the game.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Can we take a moment to recognize how insane it is that “3 or 4 seed and one playoff win” isn’t considered a successful season for this team?

I mean I know it isn’t given what they have accomplished, but the bar is kind of insanely high if we can’t appreciate a season like that. Most teams would absolutely take that at the start of the season.

Yes, I agree. And Tom Brady is 41 years old, so it’s not insane to think he just might not be the same guy anymore. That’s life. Honestly, everything past SB 49 has been gravy to me. I thought there was a good chance they’d never win another after Spygate and they’ve miraculously managed to build another mini-dynasty.

I do believe the SB wins are over, as I believe Brady has dropped to second tier and won’t get better and this is likely the last gasp of Gronk if he’s not already dead, but that’s ok. They’ve done ok the last couple decades, and they should still have a decent shot if things fall right this year.

Was under pressure all day today.

He was under pressure, but there were also plays he gave up early and didn’t use the pocket like he has to perfection his entire career. To my eyes, his pocket awareness is starting to falter and there’s a noticeable decline as a result. His footwork is off.

 

[splendid splinter]

I don't think he's referring to 2007 Moss. In late 2009 and early 2010, Brady absolutely forced it to Moss in tight situations where he was double- or triple-covered and it stalled many a drive. I noticed the same thing with some of the passes to Gordon the past few weeks, especially today. Once Moss was traded, Brady started spreading the ball around to Gronk, Hernandez, and Woodhead and the offense really took off.

Yeah, I’m referring to post-07 Moss. I think Brady had so much trust in him that he would go deep to him in situations where he would have worked the defense before. And only when he felt frustrated by the Pats’ offensive struggles. I see a bit of that in his throws to Gordon.

 

[RG33]

Almost full-squad? Was missing his best TE, his best interior OL, and had his best tackle in and out most of the game.

He had Michel/Edelman/Gordon/White/Hogan — some decent weapons. With that many weapons, I haven’t seen the offense look this bad in a long time.

 

[BaseballJones]

Can we take a moment to recognize how insane it is that “3 or 4 seed and one playoff win” isn’t considered a successful season for this team?

I mean I know it isn’t given what they have accomplished, but the bar is kind of insanely high if we can’t appreciate a season like that. Most teams would absolutely take that at the start of the season.

This is what I shared in the game thread. The Patriots are 7-3. As of this moment, that's good for 3rd in the AFC, and 5th overall in the NFL. They should finish 11-5 at worst, win the division, and if things go right, be in the thick of the race for the #2 seed (sadly, I think #1 seed is gonna be almost impossible now).

This is what a very good team looks like. Very tough at home, and about .500 on the road. Let's look at some 10-6 to 12-4 teams from 2017 and 2016:

2017 Saints (11-5): 7-1 at home, 4-4 on the road
2017 Panthers (11-5): 6-2 at home, 5-3 on the road
2017 Falcons (10-6): 5-3 at home, 5-3 on the road
2017 Chiefs (10-6): 6-2 at home, 4-4 on the road
2017 Jaguars (10-6): 6-2 at home, 4-4 on the road
2016 Dolphins (10-6): 6-2 at home, 4-4 on the road
2016 Steelers (11-5): 6-2 at home, 5-3 on the road
2016 Raiders (12-4): 6-2 at home, 6-2 on the road
2016 Chiefs (12-4): 6-2 at home, 6-2 on the road
2016 Giants (11-5): 7-1 at home, 4-4 on the road
2016 Falcons (11-5): 5-3 at home, 6-2 on the road
2016 Seahawks (10-5-1): 7-1 at home, 3-4-1 on the road

And every one of those teams lost to a crummy-to-mediocre team or two. None of those teams were *elite* teams, but they were all good or very good. That's what the Patriots probably are at this point. Good or very good, but not elite. They can absolutely beat elite teams, if they play well, just like these teams listed above did. And it's not a stretch for them to beat an elite team. Not at all. I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots won the Super Bowl this year. I don't expect it given the bed they've made for themselves, but I wouldn't be surprised at all. But because they're not elite, their margin for error is much smaller than it used to be, and they can't afford to fall behind and make the kind of mistakes (coaching, kicking, tackling, coverage, communication, etc) that they've made and expect to get away with it.

But they're still really good. A few bad games doesn't make them not very good. Rest up on the bye. Get injured guys back. Then pound the Jets to go 8-3. Then beat the Vikings at home (which I think they'll do) to go 9-3. Then win in Miami to go 10-3, and then the biggie at Pittsburgh. Lose that one maybe (though they usually find a way against the Steelers) and then win the last two against conference foes and finish 12-4. Maybe 11-5. That's where I thought they'd be at the start of the year and that's where I think they'll be at the end. I just didn't quite see it playing out like this, with three losses on the road where they got manhandled by mediocre-to-bad teams.

 

[heavyde050]

He had Michel/Edelman/Gordon/White/Hogan — some decent weapons. With that many weapons, I haven’t seen the offense look this bad in a long time.

I agree with the offense looking bad, but have we reached the point in the season where Hogan is no longer considered a weapon? He has been very disappointing this year (though playing out of position most of the time).