The Game Ball Thread: Week 13 vs Vikings

[SeoulSoxFan]

Who saw the NE defense pretty much shutting down Vikings offense? Not me.

It's December. The Pats are very close to being the machine that it always is this time of the year.

Also, Game Ball Time!

• Offense: the OL gets it again, with Devlin close behind
• Defense: Jackson? JACKSON??? Looks like we got a bigger, faster, Butler

Honorary Game Balls to Burkhead for getting back healthy & Allen for the newly-found directional punts. Flowers got some key pressures too.

Phins up next then the MNF at the Steelers.

P.S. LOLZ @ Thielen for yapping at BB then getting a mouthful back.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Michel, Develin, Gordon
Flowers, Guy/Gilmore

 

[MillarTime]

JC Jackson

 

[tims4wins]

Everyone still think this year “feels different”? Same as it ever was folks.

 

[BaseballJones]

Last two games: 23 points allowed. Game balls to Develin, Jackson, Gordon, Flowers.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Is it me or McD purposely stashes plays until the 4th quarter? I read somewhere they like to throw away (my words) some drives by showing different formations, setting the opposition up for the kill.

 

[eddiew112]

The O line was great, as was Brady. Outside of the INT he was fantastic, especially moving in the pocket.

Everyone on the defense played well. JC Jackson and Flowers obviously stood out though

 

[m0ckduck]

First 25 min: pass rush, McDaniels
Last 25 min: Gordon
Whole game: Defensive secondary
Honorary mention: the handoff-to-Develin play that worked three times in key moments

 

[Rook05]

Flores or Belichick. Defensive game plan was great. They’ve been far less predictable the last two games, bringing pressure more frequently.

Also, I’d love JC Jackson to be Malcom Butler 2.0.

 

[lars10]

Is it me or McD purposely stashes plays until the 4th quarter? I read somewhere they like to throw away (my words) some drives by showing different formations, setting the opposition up for the kill.

At the very least it looks as though they seem to have a series of plays for a player at time...especially the RBs. White didn't really get involved until the second quarter I believe.. so I do wonder if there is a bit of a change of pace going on as well. (well obviously there is, but I wonder if it's related to what you're saying..different formations, different paces etc.)

 

[j44thor]

Flowers, dual threat Brady, Burkhead, Patterson with some huge plays including the catch of the game.
Tough to find anyone to fault, Ghost is probably the LVP for NE this week followed closely by Gronk.

 

[RedOctober3829]

The defense as a whole gets mine. Thielen 5-28-1 and Diggs 5-49 speaks to the kind of effort the secondary put in. Rudolph only 3 catches too after the TEs that had burned this defense this year.

 

[j44thor]

Is it me or McD purposely stashes plays until the 4th quarter? I read somewhere they like to throw away (my words) some drives by showing different formations, setting the opposition up for the kill.

I really, really, really, really hope that isn't the case. This defense isn't near good enough nor is the offense elite enough to experiment with plays on D.

If we had the BAL D I could perhaps understand that but no one is confusing the NE and BAL D.

 

[j44thor]

The defense as a whole gets mine. Thielen 5-28-1 and Diggs 5-49 speaks to the kind of effort the secondary put in. Rudolph only 3 catches too after the TEs that had burned this defense this year.

I don't recall another game where NE gave up so much to the RB, clearly the game plan was to take away Thielen then Diggs. Just odd to see Cook gash the D so often but clearly it was the right play.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I don't recall another game where NE gave up so much to the RB, clearly the game plan was to take away Thielen then Diggs. Just odd to see Cook gash the D so often but clearly it was the right play.

They took away the big plays from Cousins. 32 completions but only just over 200 yards.

 

[j44thor]

They took away the big plays from Cousins. 32 completions but only just over 200 yards.

Yes, seems opposite of what they normally do which is focus on stopping the run.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

They took away the big plays from Cousins. 32 completions but only just over 200 yards.

He has a big tendency to dump the ball to the short read on every single pressure. The pass to Treadwell on fourth and 11 was glaring in that respect.

It helped that the Pats devoured YAC opportunities; great tackling today.

 

[StupendousMan]

I don't recall another game where NE gave up so much to the RB, clearly the game plan was to take away Thielen then Diggs. Just odd to see Cook gash the D so often but clearly it was the right play.

How about this game against the Broncos, when the defense kept daring Manning to check into running plays ... and he kept doing it. Lots of yards on the ground, but not many points in the second half.

https://www.patspulpit.com/2013/11/25/5142502/patriots-vs-broncos-final-score-what-a-comeback-pats-win-34-31

 

[Marciano490]

Thought KVN played well.

 

[j44thor]

He has a big tendency to dump the ball to the short read on every single pressure. The pass to Treadwell on fourth and 11 was glaring in that respect.

It helped that the Pats devoured YAC opportunities; great tackling today.

I don't think that is the case at all. He has one of the highest passer ratings against the blitz and before this week really didn't involve the RBs in the passing game. Thielen is his to go under pressure and on 3rd down. NE did a great job taking him out.

 

[j44thor]

How about this game against the Broncos, when the defense kept daring Manning to check into running plays ... and he kept doing it. Lots of yards on the ground, but not many points in the second half.

https://www.patspulpit.com/2013/11/25/5142502/patriots-vs-broncos-final-score-what-a-comeback-pats-win-34-31

Yeah 5yrs ago, you realize you are making my point???

 

[Red Averages]

BB for giving Thielen the business after dominating him all day.

 

[leftfieldlegacy]

Jackson for the game ball but the entire D came up big. Having almost all of the DL/LB and a safety standing and moving around from one position to another so Cousins couldn't get a consistent pre-snap read was very effective. If Flores was the architect of that game plan then a game ball to him too.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

I really, really, really, really hope that isn't the case. This defense isn't near good enough nor is the offense elite enough to experiment with plays on D.

If we had the BAL D I could perhaps understand that but no one is confusing the NE and BAL D.

I don’t believe this is the case, but would be pretty peeved if it were. Not just for defensive reasons but for the fact that it opens you up to flukes/penalties/one bad run of play costing the game.

At the end of the day the other team is trying too so not everything will work perfectly. I certainly don’t love the cutesy plays when the offense is pretty much having its way straight up against a D, but whatever.

 

[j44thor]

Jackson for the game ball but the entire D came up big. Having almost all of the DL/LB and a safety standing and moving around from one position to another so Cousins couldn't get a consistent pre-snap read was very effective. If Flores was the architect of that game plan then a game ball to him too.

Yes, reminded me of the old Ted Washington amoeba defense with one down lineman. Loved that they were running that most of the 4th Q with MN in catchup mode.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Belichick for telling Theilin off.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Is it me or McD purposely stashes plays until the 4th quarter? I read somewhere they like to throw away (my words) some drives by showing different formations, setting the opposition up for the kill.

This is a reasonable explanation for why Gordon wa in Witness Protection in the first half.

 

[Bowhemian]

The defense as a whole gets mine. Thielen 5-28-1 and Diggs 5-49 speaks to the kind of effort the secondary put in. Rudolph only 3 catches too after the TEs that had burned this defense this year.

100% agree. The defense today was awesome. Coached up perfectly, and executed almost as perfectly.

 

[mauf]

This is a reasonable explanation for why Gordon wa in Witness Protection in the first half.

I wondered if there was some transgression that BB chose to deal with privately. Because yeah, they’re a different offense with Gordon than without.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Love Belichick channeling his inner Ryan Brasier.

Like Merlin above, I thought the tackling was excellent...both McCourtys, Chung and Van Noy in particular. And pleased to see Hightower looking so spry.

 

[Harry Hooper]

It helped that the Pats devoured YAC opportunities; great tackling today.

Yes, they wrapped guys up well today.

 

[bigq]

I have difficulty singling out individuals. A team win through and through. What a great win.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

This was a worse day for Thielen than a couple weeks back when NBC created a graphic where it looked like his face got splattered on.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I don't recall another game where NE gave up so much to the RB, clearly the game plan was to take away Thielen then Diggs. Just odd to see Cook gash the D so often but clearly it was the right play.

This is what I wrote in the game thread, during Minnesota's 2nd offensive series:

Pats are daring them to run the ball, which the Vikes haven't done all year. Aren't going to let Thielen or Diggs beat them.

The Pats have basically done the same thing this year to the Packers, Chiefs and Dolphins. When they face a team with a good, and particularly fast (that's why the Dolphins are in the group) set of receivers, Belichick generally takes away the big plays and says to the other team "if you have the patience, we'll let you run all day." It worked especially well today, because the Vikings have proven all year that they have absolutely no patience when it comes to the running game. They only ran the ball 13 times today, and they averaged 7.3ypc. Even worse, Cook was averaging 9.3ypc and only got 9 carries (he got 8 receptions though, for only 22 yards). Coming into today, Minnesota was 3rd in the NFL in pass attempts, and 28th in rush attempts. Zimmer just can't stick with the run, no matter how well it's doing, and BB/Pats exploited the shit out of it today.

My game balls go to Brady, Michel, White and CPat on offense, and the entire defense. That was, plain and simple, a complete team effort today. But this game was really won in the trenches. Both lines dominated.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

James "Patriots 2018 non-TB12 MVP" White gets no love? The guy led the team in targets and had 118 yards from scrimmage. With Gronk not doing Gronk things, I know folks think Gordon is the heir apparent but White has been Brady's everything all season long. The guy is about as "Patriot" as any current offensive player not named Brady.

Also, add my vote for the defense. Great to see them starting to round into form. The Vikings are a top 10 passing team but not today.

 

[Jimbodandy]

JC Jackson, Flores, Brady. White.

Whole offense and defense and their coaches were stellar. Punt and punt return units were fine. Placekicking units were meh.

 

[j44thor]

This is what I wrote in the game thread, during Minnesota's 2nd offensive series:

Pats are daring them to run the ball, which the Vikes haven't done all year. Aren't going to let Thielen or Diggs beat them.

The Pats have basically done the same thing this year to the Packers, Chiefs and Dolphins. When they face a team with a good, and particularly fast (that's why the Dolphins are in the group) set of receivers, Belichick generally takes away the big plays and says to the other team "if you have the patience, we'll let you run all day." It worked especially well today, because the Vikings have proven all year that they have absolutely no patience when it comes to the running game. They only ran the ball 13 times today, and they averaged 7.3ypc. Even worse, Cook was averaging 9.3ypc and only got 9 carries (he got 8 receptions though, for only 22 yards). Coming into today, Minnesota was 3rd in the NFL in pass attempts, and 28th in rush attempts. Zimmer just can't stick with the run, no matter how well it's doing, and BB/Pats exploited the shit out of it today.

My game balls go to Brady, Michel, White and CPat on offense, and the entire defense. That was, plain and simple, a complete team effort today. But this game was really won in the trenches. Both lines dominated.

Yep great call though I have to give GBs to all the RBs including Burkhead and Develin. Burkhead really gives them the perfect in between of White, receiver first who can run a little and Michel run first who can catch a little. Burkhead can do both equally well but you don't want him touching the ball more than 10X per game.

 

[mauf]

Everyone still think this year “feels different”? Same as it ever was folks.

In terms of point differential, the Pats are in the same general neighborhood as the Steelers, Ravens, Texans, and Chargers, and they’re well behind the Chiefs.

I’m not saying PD is the be-all and end-all, but this year definitely “feels different” than the Pats’ recent Super Bowl campaigns.

 

[Ale Xander]

Entire defense, with the exception of that prevent fiasco in the 1st half.

If I had to chose 1 player, JC Jackson

 

[Super Nomario]

Is it me or McD purposely stashes plays until the 4th quarter? I read somewhere they like to throw away (my words) some drives by showing different formations, setting the opposition up for the kill.

I don't think they save stuff, but I do think they try different combinations and see how the defense will react. Sometimes they hit on something that works early and sometimes it takes a little longer.

They passed a lot on the first drive with great success - five straight passes to get down to the 16, then an end around and a couple handoffs to punch it - but then they seemed to want to establish the run after that and had a hard time building a lot of offensive consistency. Then after MIN tied it up, they went back to the pass - 108 of the 125 yards in the final two TD drives were on passes. I think they were worried about Minnesota's pass rush so they ran a lot of short stuff, screens, and run plays, and then either they felt like they had worn them down or they had to do something different after the Vikings tied it up. They were super conservative on O from about the late second quarter to last third and that was the stretch they did nothing.

Entire defense, with the exception of that prevent fiasco in the 1st half.

"Prevent fiasco?" I saw a bunch of blitzing, it's just that Minnesota picked it up on that drive.

 

[tims4wins]

In terms of point differential, the Pats are in the same general neighborhood as the Steelers, Ravens, Texans, and Chargers, and they’re well behind the Chiefs.

I’m not saying PD is the be-all and end-all, but this year definitely “feels different” than the Pats’ recent Super Bowl campaigns.

Probably because the 3 losses are all by multiple scores. 6 of the 9 wins have been by multiple scores and in 2 of the others the Pats had late 4th quarter 14 point leads. In other words aside from the KC team they have put away every game they have won. Oh and the Pats did have a 15 point lead against KC. The Pats have had a 14+ point lead in all nine of their wins. Can any other team say that?

 

[mauf]

Probably because the 3 losses are all by multiple scores. 6 of the 9 wins have been by multiple scores and in 2 of the others the Pats had late 4th quarter 14 point leads. In other words aside from the KC team they have put away every game they have won. Oh and the Pats did have a 15 point lead against KC. The Pats have had a 14+ point lead in all nine of their wins. Can any other team say that?

Another way of saying this is they’re an elite team that beats themselves.

I’m not sure how to think about this. On one hand, it shows they’re a terrific team when they’re at their best. On the other, how often does a team that sometimes beats itself raise the Lombardi Trophy?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Is it me or McD purposely stashes plays until the 4th quarter? I read somewhere they like to throw away (my words) some drives by showing different formations, setting the opposition up for the kill.

I really, really, really, really hope that isn't the case. This defense isn't near good enough nor is the offense elite enough to experiment with plays on D.

If we had the BAL D I could perhaps understand that but no one is confusing the NE and BAL D.

I don’t believe this is the case, but would be pretty peeved if it were. Not just for defensive reasons but for the fact that it opens you up to flukes/penalties/one bad run of play costing the game.

At the end of the day the other team is trying too so not everything will work perfectly. I certainly don’t love the cutesy plays when the offense is pretty much having its way straight up against a D, but whatever.

This is a reasonable explanation for why Gordon wa in Witness Protection in the first half.

Yikes.

No. This was gameplan specific. The entire first half saw check downs, short out routes, and screens. The Patriots were challenging the flats, and the Vikings had no answer. That the Patriots didnt score 20+ before half was a minor blessing for the Vikings.

Second half rolled around, the Pat's tried more of the same, saw that the Vikings made adjustments, so the Patriots pivoted and started taking advantage of the soft spots that opened up with the Vikings playing more aggressive in the flats. The seam route to Gronk, for example, probably would not have been there in the first half. I didnt watch, but I wouldnt be shocked if the Vikings switched to more of a consistent cover-2, which left the seams and sidelines - whatsup big 4th quarter by Gordon - much softer.

This wasnt about holding plays back. It was a great chess game by McD.

 

[tims4wins]

Another way of saying this is they’re an elite team that beats themselves.

I’m not sure how to think about this. On one hand, it shows they’re a terrific team when they’re at their best. On the other, how often does a team that sometimes beats itself raise the Lombardi Trophy?

They haven’t really blown any leads though aside from KC. The Bears comeback was pretty shitty luck on the Develin pick play. Ditto the Colts semi comeback. As for not putting away the Jets earlier in the game - I mean, the Pats were down 14-0 in the Meadowlands 2 years ago to a 5-11 Jets team. The Pats are 2-0 road division with wins by 19 and 14.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I must have missed BB and Thielen, did he dis him postgame?

Edit: nevermind I found a clip. That’s great.

 

[j44thor]

Another way of saying this is they’re an elite team that beats themselves.

I’m not sure how to think about this. On one hand, it shows they’re a terrific team when they’re at their best. On the other, how often does a team that sometimes beats itself raise the Lombardi Trophy?

I don't think any NE SB team has won the SB without losing a game or two by beating themselves. You can make the case that last years PHI didn't beat themselves but beyond that I think you are looking at the 2000 Ravens for another similar team.

 

[mauf]

They haven’t really blown any leads though aside from KC. The Bears comeback was pretty shitty luck on the Develin pick play. Ditto the Colts semi comeback. As for not putting away the Jets earlier in the game - I mean, the Pats were down 14-0 in the Meadowlands 2 years ago to a 5-11 Jets team. The Pats are 2-0 road division with wins by 19 and 14.

I’m not talking about blowing leads. I’m talking about getting whipped by three teams, two of which are likely to finish with losing records. That’s why this year feels different. Which isn’t to say they aren’t going to make a deep playoff run — it’s just weird tuning in to the game on Sunday and wondering which team is going to show up.

 

[tims4wins]

I’m not talking about blowing leads. I’m talking about getting whipped by three teams, two of which are likely to finish with losing records. That’s why this year feels different. Which isn’t to say they aren’t going to make a deep playoff run — it’s just weird tuning in to the game on Sunday and wondering which team is going to show up.

Maybe. Guess we’ll see. They were playing without some key guys in weeks 2-3. The Titans game was a mess, no doubt, although I do wonder about the flu bug.

 

[Super Nomario]

Another way of saying this is they’re an elite team that beats themselves.

I’m not sure how to think about this. On one hand, it shows they’re a terrific team when they’re at their best. On the other, how often does a team that sometimes beats itself raise the Lombardi Trophy?

I don't think it's about beating themselves, to be honest. When I think "beating themselves," I think games like the 2015 loss to Philly (when they gave up two ST TDs) or the 2010 loss to the Browns (when they turned the ball over three times). When they've lost this year, it hasn't been fluky players or turnovers (they are +1 in three losses this year); they've just gotten their asses kicked.

The obvious takeaway is that they've been inconsistent. That probably doesn't bode well for the playoffs, but when they've looked good they've basically looked as good as they always have, and get a bye and you only need to win three games in a row.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

I must have missed BB and Thielen, did he dis him postgame?

Edit: nevermind I found a clip. That’s great.

No. On the sideline after that garbage spot that resulted in a lost challenge and a 1st for the Vikings, Bill told Thielen to “shut the fuck up”. Twice.