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The Game Ball Thread: SB vs Rams

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by SeoulSoxFan, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I finally watched “Turning Point” last night. First time I had heard that the pass to Gronk on the right sideline (early in the TD drive) was drawn up by JMcD on the sideline just before the series.
    Also first time I saw that the long pass to Gronk on the 3 was the third of three plays in a row run from the same formation.
    Finally, it occurred to me that Hightower looked a lot thinner that how I thought of him. Many here have touched on how explosive and athletic he was in the SB. Does anyone else think he may have lost some weight over the course of the season?
     
  2. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Had a similar thought on Hightower. Even from the pick in the first KC game he looks slimmer.
     
  3. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    You have to think that NFL GMs are annoyed that they let both Hightower and Edelman return to the Pats when both guys were easily obtainable for very reasonable deals when they hit FA last few years.
     
  4. simplyeric

    simplyeric aggressively nonsensical SoSH Member

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    What about Allen and his punting? I know it's not really a serious thing that a punter would get MVP, but field position was big during this run.
     
  5. simplyeric

    simplyeric aggressively nonsensical SoSH Member

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    And that pass to Gronk was like the first play in the game where I thought "ah.....there's Tom Brady..."
    He had a bunch of messy throws but the touch on that play was nice.
     
  6. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    I give the Rams linebacker credit on that play for not completely biting on the play action there and letting Gronk roam free down the sideline as if he had, that's either a TD or a very long gain.

    Based on the Patriots personnel in the game at that time, it looked for sure like a running play, Gronk sold the block well too in that situation.

    That drive was offensive football surgery at it's finest.
     
  7. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    I had to back up and look again at who the slimmer guy with the Medusa hair was in Turning Point. Wasn't Gilmore, oh yeah, Hightower. At 1 minute 20 seconds.

     
  8. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I would love to see a side by side set of pics of DHT comparing SB 53 to preseason or previous years.
     
  9. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    I thought he was hitting Edelman between the numbers or close to it all game.
     
  10. simplyeric

    simplyeric aggressively nonsensical SoSH Member

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    Fair point, yeah. I mean, Edelman didn't get MVP for nothing. But I guess I mean that everything seemed strained (in my foggy memory). Nothing seemed quite right. He was making some passes, but just didn't seem like quite "Tom Brady".

    It's not even like TB is known for that type of touch pass...it's not his meat and potatoes like the threads to crossing routes.

    Maybe I just felt like I needed to see something a little different. That particular pass was when I finally thought "oh, I think they're going to be able to get something done".

    What do I know?
     
  11. rodderick

    rodderick Member SoSH Member

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    He hit everything thrown to Gronk and Edelman, while most of the passes intended for the other receiving options looked off. But Hogan, Dorsett, Patterson is as bad a complimentary receiver trio as there is in the league, so I don't know how much of it is Tom. It's no wonder he never looked to those guys whenever he absolutely had to make a play.
     
    #311 rodderick, Feb 18, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  12. streeter88

    streeter88 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Could it be that they just weren't getting separation and therefore he had to lead them to avoid the pick, so it didn't look like he was very accurate when he was targeting the complementary receivers? My recollection is that Hogan was almost never open for example.
     
  13. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    He was 0-6 targeting Hogan and Hogan was never close to open
     
  14. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    eh, Hogan's had enough good games where the reverse was true. 2017 AFCCG anyone? Plus Patterson isn't here for his downfield route-running and separation. Name me a team with a better 3rd or 4th WR. Maybe Pittsburgh (James Washington was pretty good for a rookie) or KC (Chris Conley)? I mean, our WR corps as a whole was ranked #1 preseason by B-R, for what that's worth, and I'd put the receiving threat posed by our backfield as second to none.

    (to be fair, PFF ranked us #14, with Minnesota 1st - though after Thielen and Diggs, none of the rest were all that productive this year)

    I think they were never leaving. Hightower made some show about going to Pittsburgh, and then afterwards the Pittsburgh FO was basically quoted as saying his heart wasn't in it and they never thought he was really serious about taking another offer.

    Edelman would sooner play for the vet minimum than sign away from Tom Brady. Gronk would rather retire. There was nothing other GMs could have done.
     
  15. streeter88

    streeter88 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    And the others as well. He was 1-12 to Hogan, White and Michel. One of Michel’s was a drop I think, but White got a few pass attempts which clearly seemed aborted as maybe the play wasn’t going to work.

    To Edelman, Gronk, Cordarrelle and Burkhead he was 20-23 for all but 5 of his total yardage.
     
  16. rodderick

    rodderick Member SoSH Member

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    That'd be fine if they had even a league average number two. Chris Hogan would be the second best receiver on how many NFL teams?

    Also, I have zero clue as to what worth preseason rankings that took into account a ton of guys who were either cut or did nothing on the 2018 Patriots could possibly have.
     
  17. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    Phillips’ ability to take away everything outside the numbers and to entirely neutralize the running backs as pass receivers was a game winning game plan. It was masterful and should have won a championship, except the guy on the other sideline was better.

    Leaving the seams and the middle of the field open was a calculated risk. He knew it is tougher to score there as the field gets shorter. He also seemed to understand that the Patriots just don’t score very often with catches by guys with two feet in the end zone unless it’s a receiver on the top of his route. They tend to carry it across the goal line. It’s not a coincidence that Edelman has only 5 playoff TDs on 175 targets. Edelman is a monster between the numbers and his transitions from catcher to runner are crazy. But he doesn’t run the single move cross to the sideline like Amendola for example and is not really a guy you can expect to get open more than a foot or two from the goaline on a regular basis. I’m not saying that Hogan and Dorsett would have been monsters against a different defense but it was an interesting choice by the Rams.

    Given that outside the numbers is the Patriots’ weakness, most coaches seemed to devote fewer resources there but Phillips took the opposite approach and seemed to play everything for outside leverage, except for the rubs off the line of scrimmage. Couple that with shadowing everyone out of the backfield made for a bend but don’t break defense that easily could have won the super bowl. The running backs as receivers numbers are to me the most shocking numbers of the Super Bowl. Especially given what Kamara was able to do. 3 catches on 8 targets for 20 yards. A non factor.
     
  18. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    I see it as less of a choice and more of that's how their back seven is constructed. They have two effective outside corners in Talib and Peters; what they don't have are great middle-of-the-field coverage players. It didn't look to me like they were trying to take away Hogan schematically. Usually when a defense tries to take someone away, he doesn't get targeted as much as Hogan did (6 times). Hogan actually got targeted a lot from Week 17 on - 11 times for 6 catches and 64 yards Week 17, 5 for 3 and 13 vs LAC, 7 for 5 and 45 @ KC, and 6 for 0 and 0 in the Super Bowl. That's ... not great. He had a good run in NE but it won't surprise me if he is done.
     
  19. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    In the SB, Hogan ran one slant across the middle that would have been a big gainer (possible TD), but Brady threw behind him.
     
  20. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    I just watched all the Hogan targets and didn't see anything resembling this. There was a dig that Brady short-hopped with Donald charging in, but it would have only been like a 15-yarder.
     
  21. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    No I remember the play too, not sure what Brady saw on the play but he threw behind Hogan. A Rams DB got his hand on the ball on the play. Could have been a pick.
     
  22. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    OK, I know which one you're talking about now. It was a seam route (Hogan was in the slot) and Brady tried to fit it in but the underneath defender (Barron) got a hand on it. It looked like a little behind but it was hard to tell what would have happened if Barron hadn't tipped it. Peters was charging hard from the outside deep zone going for the pick. No way was that going to be a touchdown though. The problem was he had to zip it or the deep guys would close too quickly, but then he couldn't get enough height to put it over Barron.

    EDIT: play is with 2:24 in the first
     
  23. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Yeah I just watched it again. Really bad throw. Even if Barron isn't there it is behind Hogan. I can see why Harry Hooper might have thought potential TD on the play (remembering it from the game), but it looks like Joyner I think would have just popped him around the 50 even if it was a perfect throw and a catch.
     
  24. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    I don't think there was really a window there. Making it less behind Hogan puts it more in Barron's path. Putting more arc gives Peters or the FS more time to close.
     
  25. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    I agree. Every target of Hogan was pretty much a poor decision.
     
  26. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    You're right. I finally watched the game again, and that play never happened. Maybe it was in the AFCCG? Sorry for the wild goose chase.
     
  27. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    While Edelman was MVP, he was only targeted once in Rams territory (incomplete), vs. 11 times in Pats territory. I wonder how / why that happened.
     
  28. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    Did the Rams switch to man when the field got shorter?
     
  29. PayrodsFirstClutchHit

    PayrodsFirstClutchHit Member SoSH Member

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    Given the Pats had only scored 3 points well into the 4th quarter, I would guess the offense did not spend that much time in Rams territory.
     
  30. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Untrue. They cross midfield on like half their drives if not more. Without looking up drive stats in the first half alone - INT, missed FG, made FG, blown 4th down. Second half they crossed at least twice. So at least 6 possessions ended in Rams territory.
     
  31. Oppo

    Oppo Member SoSH Member

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    30 plays on the Rams side of the field plus 1 at midfield out of 72 (excluding timeouts, kickoffs, etc)
     
  32. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    So 11 targets out of like 42 vs 1 out of 30??? Crazy
     

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