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The Altogether Appropriate NFL Draft Thread

Discussion in 'Wait, Who???' started by Morgan's Magic Snowplow, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    16,204
    I've seen draft talk and speculation pop up in a bunch of different threads so I figured we might as well have a centralized place for draft-specific discussion, news on individual players, etc, especially as the college season gets underway in earnest.
     
    For those who don't follow this stuff, the 2014 draft is loaded by all accounts, with a particularly strong QB class.  I've seen the following guys mentioned as having at least first round potential (obviously not all will come out, not all will be in the first round).
     
    Teddy Bridgewater - Consensus top two pick unless things go very wrong this year.  Very likely to go #1 overall.
    Tajh Boyd - High ceiling, low floor read-option guy that some predict going as high as Top 3 and others don't see in the first round.
    Brett Hundley - Has looked really impressive this year and has the ideal package (for some) of being a pocket passer in a pro-style offense who is athletic enough to do the read-option thing.  May not come out as a redshirt soph.
    Marcus Mariota - Another duel threat guy, some question about his passing chops, also may not come out.
    Johnny Manziel - We all know him.
    David Fales - Pocket passer from SJSU.
    Blake Bortles - Pocket passer from Central Florida, not much hype but some people really love him.
    Derek Carr - Pocket passer from Fresno State, scary genes (brother of David Carr).
    Jeff Matthews - Crazy arm and very accurate, but how high can you take a guy from Cornell?
     
    There is even more depth after that as well, with guys like Aaron Murray, AJ McCarron, etc who aren't seen as first rounders (or at least I haven't seen them pegged there) but should have NFL careers.
     
    Outside of the QB position, Jadeveon Clowney is the big name but there are a lot of other impressive prospects, including several front seven defenders (Stephon Tuitt and Louis Nix from ND, Anthony Barr from UCLA), a couple elite looking LTs (Lewin from UM, Matthews from TAMU), and several big time playmakers in the passing game (Sammy Watkins, Marquise Lee, Austin Seferian-Jenkins).
     
    In sum, its a great year to suck in the NFL and a huge contrast from last year.  Whereas there might have been only 3-4 guys with legitimate Top 10 talent in the draft last year, there might be 12-15 guys like that in this draft.  Bridgewater looks like an unusual talent but a lot of teams will get great players.
     
  2. repole

    repole lurker

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    May be worth adding Devin Gardner to the QB possibilities list, depending on whether he plays like he did against Akron (terribly) or like he did against ND (wonderfully) the rest of the year. Tools wise he has high 1st round talent, as he's got a guy who can make all the throws and can run the read option, and he's clearly a smart kid, but on field decision making is sporadic at best.
     
  3. bowiac

    bowiac I've been living a lie. Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    12,109
    Looking at this list of QBs, even though I believe in Gardner's talent and upside, I'm gonna guess he stays unless he has some kind of crazy year from here on out. Seems better to wait for next year for him.
     
  4. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    IIRC, he was also granted a redshirt (medical or otherwise), so he has another year of eligibility. I'd be shocked if he comes out this year, short of a NC or Rose Bowl win (Note: I think the Rose Bowl IS the NC this year, but you get my point).
     
  5. Royal Reader

    Royal Reader Member SoSH Member

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    1,725
    Loucheiz Purefoy of UF is an interesting prospect.  One of those Honey Badger types (although they're totally dissimilar physically) at Cornerback who isn't your archetypal cover guy but makes a lot of big plays, hits hard in the running game etc.
     
    Kyle Van Noy of BYU and Khalil Mack, the one great player on an otherwise terrible Buffalo team look like great defensive prospects.
     
    Lot of OTs: Bama's Cyrus Kouandjio and Tennessee's Richardson are both projected as first-rounders.  Mike Evans of TAMU is a wideout getting a lot of hype, especially after his 250+ yard performance on Saturday.
     
  6. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,112
    Not a bad year to have multiple 1s, as BB stockpiled in years past.  And so much for jumping ugly on Cleveland just because Bridgewater may be gone.
     
    Manziel to me is fascinating.  Several years ago, he'd have gone toward the bottom of the draft if at all.  Several weeks ago, he was projected as a mid-round pick by the usual suspects on talking head radio.
     
    Now if he stay out of serious trouble and remains healthy, I don't know how he isn't selected in round 1 and maybe the top half of round 1.  There are reports of improved arm strength.  People are waking up to the fact that he is taller than Wilson and, although slimmer, it is possible to add muscle.  But to gut a Saban defense a year after he gutted another Saban defense, and worse, in the brightest of lights after running his mouth (albeit in a home game) is really remarkable.
     
  7. Phragle

    Phragle wild card bitches SoSH Member

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    I've wanted Louis Nix for the Pats since about this time last year.  I think he's pretty much Vince Wilfork.  There's only a small chance he'll be around in the late first though.  Same with almost all of the other players you mentioned.
     
     
    Yeah, I think a lot of players stay in school because of how strong the class projects to be.
     
  8. bowiac

    bowiac I've been living a lie. Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    12,109
    Depending how things shape up with the receiving core, there may be only a small chance the Pats are picking in the late first.
     
  9. soxfan121

    soxfan121 JAG Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    23,043
  10. SoxScout

    SoxScout Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    McCarron is rising and getting a lot of love lately, rates well in accuracy, game management and leadership, reading and changing plays. Knocks being arm is strong enough, but not elite and he is athletic but not mobile. I think he goes 20-40 and could end the 2nd best QB in this class.
     
    As for initial guess for the Pats, trading a 3 or 4 for a UFA-to-be WR and then draft HEAVY on DL and OL. Like maybe 5 or 6.
     
  11. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Nah.  Sign Emmanuel Sanders and use draft picks on the lines as you said.  I don't trust them to draft a capable safety anymore, so that's a pipe dream.  They might also want to think about drafting a RB.
     
  12. SpacemanzGerbil

    SpacemanzGerbil Member SoSH Member

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    Keep an eye on Ra'Shede Hageman from Minnesota. He was still kind of raw last season, and while I haven't seen a Minnesota game this year, I expect some rapid improvement with a year's seasoning.
     
    Another to watch is the gargantuan defensive tackle from the Vols, Daniel McCullers. This is the type of player that can change your entire front 7, if he pans out.
     
  13. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    [media]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qc2dzl2rE4I [/media]
     
    I like his size but man he gets almost no 1 on 1 push on a lot of these plays.
     
    Although he man handles Alabama's line at times. Holy shit - this is a much better performance.
     
    [media]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZuFq87B0RNs [/media]
     
  14. SpacemanzGerbil

    SpacemanzGerbil Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, the Alabama game last year is what really stood out to me. Bama's interior OL last season was pretty damned good.
     
  15. repole

    repole lurker

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    He does indeed have another year of eligibility, and the QB class is tremendously strong, but Michigan's schedule is also pretty weak outside of that final game of the year, he has a chance to put up some relatively big numbers. I don't think he goes, but it's not a total long shot in my opinion.
     
  16. dbn

    dbn Member SoSH Member

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    7,772
    I'm sure I'm not alone in this forum as someone who loves the Patriots and the NFL, but don't get to follow college FB as much as I'd like.  So, many of even the better-known names (excepting those that get kicked out of a Manning camp or are Jadeveon Clowney) I don't recognize.  Thus, it'd be awesome if people could mention school and position when bringing up names.  Thanks.
     
  17. SoxScout

    SoxScout Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    30,143
     
    New SI mock has 5 QB in the top 10
     
  18. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    I've been touting him in the college threads for a while, but keep this name in the back of your mind:  Sean Mannion, QB, Oregon State.  IMO, he could be the best QB in the entire class.  Pocket passer, 6'6' or so, got a rifle and seems to me to be a pretty good game manager.  I have no idea how they had a QB controversy over the summer with this kid, but he earned the job back for his senior year and has been absolutely lighting it up.
     
  19. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    In that mock, I'd be overly excited if Tuitt was our pick.
     
  20. nothumb

    nothumb Member SoSH Member

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    N/M wrong thread
     
  21. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    6,181
    With Lyerla available? Can you imagine a Gronk Lyerla tandom at TE? Droooool.
     
  22. Infield Infidel

    Infield Infidel teaching korea american SoSH Member

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    I've been touting him in the college threads for a while, but keep this name in the back of your mind:  Sean Mannion, QB, Oregon State.  IMO, he could be the best QB in the entire class.  Pocket passer, 6'6' or so, got a rifle and seems to me to be a pretty good game manager.  I have no idea how they had a QB controversy over the summer with this kid, but he earned the job back for his senior year and has been absolutely lighting it up.


    I think Mannion is still wait and see. ORSU has only played one decent team so far, at Utah. Mannion has a 15:1 TD:INT, but against Utah, E. Wash., Hawaii, and a bad San Diego State team. So monster stats vs a middling Pac12 team, an Fcs team , and those latter two are a combined 0-6. Last season his ratio was 15:13, while his backup Cody Vaz playef much better. If Mannion has genuinely cut down the picks, he's got a shot since he's got the kind of build you drool over. Another plus is he's only a junior.
     
  23. Phragle

    Phragle wild card bitches SoSH Member

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    12,748
  24. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,104
     
    It's strange, but QB is one of the few positions where I worry very little about opposing teams strength at the college level.  We've seen plenty of guys like Big Ben come out of small schools and do well at the pro level, even though they didn't play much big-time competition at the college level. I think when it comes to QB's, you scout based on three things primarily, decision-making, game management and size.  From what I've seen this year (and I've watched almost every snap of his games this year because they are generally on late without much else against them), he's gotten dramatically better at making good decisions.  Their come from behind win against San Diego state was a thing of beauty.  And like you said, when it comes to size, he's pretty much the exact example of what you want from a QB.  I honestly love the kid as a QB (know almost nothing about him character-wise or intelligence-wise) so I'm biased, but I'd be really surprised if he didn't come out this year, except for the fact that he might think he's got a better chance of going much higher next year, given the class coming out this year.
     
  25. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    You people need help. :)
     
  26. Phragle

    Phragle wild card bitches SoSH Member

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  27. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    SO what do the Pats need for Talent infusion?
     
    TE-We need that "Move TE" to replace Hernandez. Is there such a player available? Or Do you redesign the offense and forget having a "move" guy? Will Gronk be as good with out that compliment? Will AmenWelker? If we do target that guy it wont be a 4th round pick. Will Gronk come back as GRONK, or as a post injury Mark Bavarro?
    OL-We need an upgrade at C.  Both Tackles are adequate to very good and young-ish. Guard (Mankins age + salary) might also be a possible place we could "improve"*.  Is Cannon the next foundation of the interior? Or is he just a real good (for a ) swing guy?
    Wr- Are Amendola and the Kids good enough to be the non TE receiving threats for the last couple of Brady Years?  Do we have time to develop AJ Green or Julio Jones Lite?  Do we trust ourselves to find one?
    DL- Vince will need to be looked at. Even if we Assume he comes back like "VINCE" a 3rd rotation guy will be necessary as Vince and Kelly cannot be our every down DTs.
    CB-Talib is gonna COST based on his ytd production.  He might be worth it.
    S- Someone opposite Mccourty would be nice.
    K- What is Ghosts situation?
    RB- A third option? Probably notas the guys we have now are probably "ok" third options.....and its not like we are spending a 3rd rounder on or 3rd RB when UDFAs can fill the role.
     
    (and by improve ...I mean on a team level. If we can get a young guard who can approach most or even all of Mankins production at a fraction of his cost, allowing that money to be used on a Vet WR or Safety,  I consider that "improvement".)
     
  28. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    To me the two biggest needs are DL & TE (replacing Hernandez). The Pats need some legit talent on the DL especially with Vince on the back nine. Time to stop playing undrafted free agents.
     
  29. ( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

    ( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) T&A SoSH Member

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    I dont want to over react to the most recent game but even with two young/good tackles that will be here a while the offense line got dominated all game long.  Cincy deserves credit, they are in the discussion for top DL in the game, but they need some youth and premium talent in the middle of that line.  Wendell and Connolly have seemingly regressed from last year (granted we are 5 games in) and Mankins is not going to be here forever and is not the force he once was.  It's time for some premium talent to be added to the middle of that group.
     
  30. shoosh77

    shoosh77 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The problem with almost always picking in the last 8 picks is catching up.  It'll probably be the case until Brady retires too.
     
  31. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    Wait, you're saying you can't add premium interior OL talent drafting late in the round?
     
  32. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    With the understanding that there are miles to go before we have to start making these choices and that people will step up and new different holes will also open....and that I am so spoiled that 1 loss has me potentially overreacting....
     
    Its the first time in a long time that I have felt that the Pats need help basically "everywhere".
     
    Hell even LB (which has had a shit ton of resources allocated....mostly successfully...unlike the secondary for instance) could use a really good cover backer (maybe that becomes Collins).  RB as my last post suggested is also not totally safe.  Both Ridley and Vereen have had serious enough injuries and have serious enough questions (fumbling and durability respectively) to still be question marks. TE too.
    There is not 1 position where I feel we are "Set" for the next 5 years.   DE/LB Maybe...depending on Collins and how Mayo and Hightower age.
     
    Finally SOMEDAY....we need to find someone who can be the "replacement" (hah!) for Brady.  OK so we dont need to focus on QB this year (certainly not in the 1st..) ...but if the coaches see "THAT GUY" in the second/third round...we might be at the point where they pull the trigger.
     
    With all that said....I dont think we can afford the BPA pick either.  We are too good to double up on a DE or LB or T when we have so many other "holes".
     
    Too good for BPA but pretty bad thin at so many positions we that Help "anywhere" is welcome.
     
    Does this turn into a "pick acquisition year"?  I could forsee alot of "and the patriots trade the 26th pick for the 31st and the 52"....."the Patriots trade the 52nd and 113th for the 59th, 72 and 91st..."   etc etc.
     
    The difference with this "pick acquisition" year being we acquire them this year....instead of  future years.
     

    We need to hit on some picks this year. 
     
    The kicker is.....if Hernandez wasnt a murdering shit bag....I wouldnt feel nearly as bad about the Talent on this team.  Hard to believe that 1 guy not named Brady makes that much of a difference.
     
  33. shoosh77

    shoosh77 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Degree of difficulty is much harder.  I'm all for drafting big uglies early and often.
     
  34. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    This past draft aside, interior OL are rarely drafted in the first round, and even more rarely early in the first round where the Pats wouldn't have a chance to draft them.
     
  35. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    As good as Bridgewater might be, Jameis Winston might actually go #1 overall if he were draft eligible. This kid may be a monster prospect - Luck level - by next year. The game against Clemson next Saturday could be a serious coming out party.
     
  36. Infield Infidel

    Infield Infidel teaching korea american SoSH Member

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    Well, yes and no. Certainly a lot of guys who play lower-level competition turn out well, but I think in this case, we are looking at small sample size of now 6 games. I think he's turned the corner, but I'd like to see how he does against top-flight competition. Some guys, like Big Ben, are just good, period, but some guys are good against bad teams and bad against good teams. Their schedule is weird. 25:3 TD:INT is great, but the best two teams in their first 7 games are Utah and E. Wash. But their last five games are all top 40 teams (Stanford, ASU, Wash, USC, Oregon). He could get clowned by those teams, or tread water, which would be great. We'll know a lot more then. But credit to Mike Riley and the great staff at OrSU for getting this kid to stop throwing picks so far. 
     
  37. SeoulSoxFan

    SeoulSoxFan Dope Dope

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    Multiple reports saying former Oregon TE Colt Lyerla has been arrested on cocaine charges.
     
    What a fall for an (arguably) once #3 TE draft prospect (behind Ebron and future Patriot Seferaian-Jenkins).
     
  38. Shelterdog

    Shelterdog Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Multiple reports saying former Oregon TE Colt Lyerla has been arrested on cocaine charges.
     
    What a fall for an (arguably) once #3 TE draft prospect (behind Ebron and future Patriot Seferaian-Jenkins).


    He's a perfect replacement for Hernandez!
     
  39. Gunfighter 09

    Gunfighter 09 wants to be caribou ken Staff Member Dope SoSH Member

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    He looks fairly shitty against USC so far tonight. I really dont like the way he is floating his deep balls. 
     
  40. lambeau

    lambeau Member SoSH Member

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    I would like to order in the first three picks a pass-catcher and a pass--rusher.
     
    And my nominees are:
     
    TE/WR
     
    L    Austin Seferian-Jenkins, WASH, 6'6" 275  --Gronk II
     
    M  Jordan Mathews, VANDY, 6'3" 205  --Jerry Rice's cousin
     
    S  Paul Richardson, COLO, 6' 170 --greased lightning
     
     
     
    DE/DT
     
    Rashad Hageman MINN, 6'6" 315--tough kid adopted by Minneapolis doctors
     
    Trent Murphy, STAN, 6'6" 260 --Science major, not Harvard-- but might be able to learn schemes
     
    Danny Shelton, WASH, 6'1" 330-- Samoan warrior to be mentored by Sapoaga
     
  41. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    I wouldn't be sad if the Pats drafted OK ST CB Justin Gilbert to go with a re-signed Talib and Dennard.
     
  42. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    I wouldn't be sad if the Pats drafted OK ST CB Justin Gilbert to go with a re-signed Talib and Dennard.


    Matt Waldman just did a writeup of him. If anyone can help me link it easier... on the mobile.

    The gist of it is that he needs to be a lot more physical in the run game. He can't shed blocks to save his life. He's very athletic but doesn't have the best footwork or instincts. Lives and dies by his raw athleticism. I've seen a healthy dose of him this year and I l a rgely agree with Waldmans take. If he could fix some of the mechanics of his game I think he could be an above average cb2 on the outside. If he gets stronger, can handle physical wrs, and fixes his mechanics and sloppiness, well then he's a legit cb1.

    I'm not sure he profiles as a slot guy.

    Now one area where he is a human highlight reel is his return game. Good golly miss Molly can this kid carve up gunners. He's also, IIRC, a good gunner too.

    That dual value increases his draft stock as he is guaranteed to be a good ST guy. So his floor is 3rd DB and ST ace. Ceiling of CB1 ST ace.
     
  43. mascho

    mascho Kane is Able SoSH Member

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    14,951
  44. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,181
  45. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    I'd kick Dennard inside and let Talib and Gilbert play outside. His return abilities would be helpful too.
     
  46. Phragle

    Phragle wild card bitches SoSH Member

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    It may not be the biggest need but I'd love to replace Hernandez with Amaro/Ebron/Seferian-Jenkins.  
     
    Maybe my favorite player for the Pats - Louis Nix III - underwent surgery on a torn meniscus and is done for the year.  I'm not happy about it, but this is probably the closest he's been to a realistic target since last year.
     
    Does anyone know where I can sortable stats by position?  Like receiving yards by tight ends?
     
  47. SeoulSoxFan

    SeoulSoxFan Dope Dope

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    18,683
     
    I've seen Seferian-Jenkins as low as a mid-2nd round pick. I don't think Ebron would be enticing enough to spend a 1st round pick (OL / DL pick is much more needed), but somehow snagging SJ would be great. 
     
  48. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Terrible news for Aaron Murray's pre-draft future. Torn ACL.

    @Mark_Schlabach: Terrible news for #UGA QB Aaron Murray: torn ACL in left knee
     
  49. mascho

    mascho Kane is Able SoSH Member

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    14,951
     
    Might be great news, however, for the team that gets to draft him in the fifth round.  They'll be getting a franchise QB IMO.
     
  50. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    Murray even with a torn ACL is still a top 2 rounds guy, isn't he? If I'm Tennessee, St. Louis, Arizona, etc. I grab Murray in the teens. Arizona makes the most sense to me as you can groom him for a year with Ponder as the QB and then transition him.
     

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