The 2017 Lineup
- Thread starter TonyPenaNeverJuiced
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Holt has played 16 games at 1b here so it's not like they are fully repulsed by the idea of a 5'10 guy doing it.
Given the shitty off-season 1b market, I approve. I can't imagine he gets here this year, but the timing is interesting given there is only a month left in the minor league season. and it's something he could have done during the AFL if they weren't trying to rush him.
Given the shitty off-season 1b market, I approve. I can't imagine he gets here this year, but the timing is interesting given there is only a month left in the minor league season. and it's something he could have done during the AFL if they weren't trying to rush him.
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I wouldn't go as far as to label it shitty, given a couple of those previously questionable 1 year guys last winter (Morrison, Lind, Reynolds, and *maybe* even Napoli) have gone on to look fairly passable this year. Which obviously isn't including Hosmer, Duda, or even Bruce if some team ends up bold enough to stick him there.
Edit - Add Alonso too I believe.
Worst case scenario there will be value to be found there that's going to be a lot better then banking on what we have internally to help fill the void imo.
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I haven't see chavis play much in AA? Why do you think he's been rough at 3B?
I see this consideration as prep work for getting Chavis/Devers potentially on the MLB roster in 2018 or 2019.
Possibly on that latter I guess, especially with him really turning it up in AA. Beyond Hosmer and Bruce, I don't see great markets being there for everybody else and a couple will probably even struggle to find a good chair.
It won't be enough to keep DD out of the bat market altogether was my point though. Barring the unlikely championship run (imo), he's bringing in at least one guy that gives a better paper assurance that the offensive shortage is being fixed. Chavis is at least a year away from potentially qualifying for that slot.
It won't be enough to keep DD out of the bat market altogether was my point though. Barring the unlikely championship run (imo), he's bringing in at least one guy that gives a better paper assurance that the offensive shortage is being fixed. Chavis is at least a year away from potentially qualifying for that slot.
If we're gonna care about this, shouldn't we be more concerned with wingspan and standing reach than head height?
Basketball man
Add vertical jump in tryouts? Give me an athletic guy that can learn the footwork, etc. Last year, Hanley was seen stretching with the wrong foot on the bag, etc.Mostly from reading scouting reports.
But particularly the most recent one from soxprospects
http://news.soxprospects.com/2017/07/scouting-scratch-michael-chavis.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+SoxprospectsNews+(SoxProspects+News)
"The weakest part of Chavis’s game is his defense. He has only played 46 games in the field this year (with another 44 at DH) as a result of elbow soreness that put him on the DL for most of the season’s first two weeks, then limited him to DH duty until early May. He did not play back-to-back days in the field until May 26 and 27. Chavis has an above-average arm, capable of making all the throws from third base, but his fundamentals and footwork need improvement.
He has only average range and seems to be much more comfortable fielding the ball on his backhand so that he can transition straight into his throw. This tendency can lead to sloppy errors, however, on balls he could easily have fielded in front. In a recent game in which I saw him make one such error, Chavis also chose on another play to make a difficult throw to first with runners on first and second and two outs when he could have easily just stepped on third base to end the inning. His throw to first was poor and in the dirt because he didn’t set his feet, but the first baseman bailed him out.
The play, while going into the books as an out, showed a lack of situational awareness, and mistakes like that will be magnified as he progresses up the system and the stage gets bigger. Long-term, Chavis’ chances to stay at third base are still questionable. In the best case, he will develop into a fringe-average defender at third, but he also could be forced to move off the position either the corner outfield or perhaps second base. Unfortunately for Chavis, he doesn’t profile at first base due to his height. "
It just struck me as unusual they would try him elsewhere when he is this raw and had Febles as his infield instructor. Generally they don't move a guy off a position until it's apparent he can't play it. That he is learning 1b now just seems like the time table is being accelerated since it shouldn't be a position that takes a season to learn.
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The one thing I don't get here is taking a guy whose one universally acknowledged asset as a defender is his arm and putting him at the position on the diamond where that matters least. If he has a good arm but can't handle the balletic nuances of an infield position, there's an obvious position for him, and it's right field.
If they're going to trade him, sure. But the big club is in pretty good shape in right. First is a question mark going forward.
Ive interpreted the reports a bit differently. To me he sounds like an above average 3B arm with poor fundamentals. His limited range may not translate to fenway's RF.
As noted above and below, 1B is one of the bigger problems moving forward -- RF is locked up for the forseeable future and we have little 1B talent coming through the farm.
Don't be so sure. Pedroia turns 34 in two weeks. If you figure that Chavis is probably two years away from the big leagues, anyway, then that starts to look less like "blocked" and more like "succession planning".
I was thinking about this too when they put Pedey on the DL this week - he may not make it as a full-time 2B for the duration of his contract. Probably some time at DH. Any chance they try Pedey at 1B? Now THAT would be completely novel, someone that vertically challenged at First, but it might actually be outweighed by his great hands and footwork. I'd expect they go a more conventional route, but Pedey would probably rather play the field anywhere than have to DH more than occasionally.
I can see Pedroia DHing once a week or so, but as long as he's not a liability defensively, he's going to play 2B as often as possible. He's to the point where he's not going to ever be a 150+ game a year guy again, but he's no where close to a point where changing positions needs to even be considered.
This is what will probably happen. At least I hope so. But I started getting worried about how his knee is going to hold up when I heard the team talking like it's a problem that isn't going to go away, and that he's going to have to manage it going forward. Thankfully, it hasn't affected his defense at 2B, but it's definitely already had an impact on his base running.
I was under the impression that the "manage it going forward" applied to the rest of this season, not necessarily the rest of his career. I expect it's something that can be repaired/alleviated surgically, and he'll do it the minute the season is over (like he did last year).
I hope you're right, and that the problems he's having now are just the lingering effects of the Machado late slide, rather than an indication that the surgery last year didn't really fix the problem, or that it's not totally fixable. I thought the team's remarks were ambiguous enough that they left some doubt in my mind about that. But I love Pedey and what he brings to the team, so I'm really hoping that this is a short term (2017) problem.
Does anyone think Pedroia's not going to demand to be buried in his spot near second base?
His defense is worth more than his bat. That's been the story with him 4 out of the last 5 years, and some years by quite a bit. If his knees are so bad that his defense falls off to a net negative, I have a hard time seeing how he would provide any value as a DH. He is going to be playing 2B until he retires.
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that Pedroia is playing like that on bad knees which just really set in for the first time.
That was a nice game by Brock, but does he have to bat at the top of the lineup when he plays?
1 XBH this season, under .300 OBP and he has never really shown a platoon split.
IF he isn't healthy, DL him. If he is fine, then spot start him. But please limit his plate appearances to the back of the lineup at the very least.
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Sung Min KimVerified account @sung_minkim 20m20 minutes ago
My photo of Mookie Betts reacting to Andrew Benintendi's 2nd home run of the day as he rounds the bases. #RedSox
Great photo!
So, the Red Sox got 2 hits off of Jordan Fucking Montgomery last night and 2 hits off Chapman, with nothing in between. That can't be lost in the victory celebration and Sale performance.
This is not a whine. At what point do the Ramirez and Bogaerts acts (Moreland is what he is) require more rehearsal? Moreland contributes defensively while the other two bring little to the team.
Hopefully the Red Sox develop a comfortable enough lead so that September call-ups can fill in for them while those two sit for enough time to heal and clear their heads. They need to be fixed for this team to go deeper into the playoffs, where 4 hits/game ain't going to cut it.
So, the Red Sox got 2 hits off of Jordan Fucking Montgomery last night and 2 hits off Chapman, with nothing in between. That can't be lost in the victory celebration and Sale performance.
This is not a whine. At what point do the Ramirez and Bogaerts acts (Moreland is what he is) require more rehearsal? Moreland contributes defensively while the other two bring little to the team.
Hopefully the Red Sox develop a comfortable enough lead so that September call-ups can fill in for them while those two sit for enough time to heal and clear their heads. They need to be fixed for this team to go deeper into the playoffs, where 4 hits/game ain't going to cut it.
Take it for what it's worth, but here are the pitching lines for some of Montgomery's games this year:
Apr 23, at Pit: 6.0 ip, 7 h, 2 r, 2 er, 2 bb, 5 k
May 23, vs KC: 6.2 ip, 2 h, 1 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 6 k
Jun 3, at Tor: 6.0 ip, 3 h, 0 r, 0 er, 3 bb, 5 k
Jun 9, vs Bal: 7.0 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 1 bb, 8 k
Jun 26, at Chi: 7.0 ip, 5 h, 1 r, 1 er, 1 bb, 8 k
Jul 25, vs Cin: 6.2 ip, 2 h, 1 r, 1 er, 1 bb, 6 k
Aug 5, at Cle: 5.0 ip, 3 h, 1 r, 1 er, 0 bb, 7 k
Aug 13, vs Bos: 5.1 ip, 2 h, 1 r, 1 er, 3 bb, 4 k
It's not like he's not capable of shutting teams down. He's not a bad pitcher. And the Yankee bullpen is outstanding.
The Red Sox also hit a number of lasers to the outfield off Montgomery that happened to find gloves. He easily could have not lasted 4 innings with that batted ball profile and the 3 walks.
How do people feel about this lineup combo?
Nunez
Betts
Benintendi
Devers
Ramirez
Moreland
Bogaerts
Leon
JBJ
Nunez
Betts
Benintendi
Devers
Ramirez
Moreland
Bogaerts
Leon
JBJ
A good point. But I see this as similar to the differences in height versus standing reach in basketball measurements. The height measured to the top of the head is less important than standing reaching since basketball players generally like to rebound using the hands, not their heads.
Similarly, in this case, being 5' 10" is fine if Chavis has a good standing reach, which is what will count for catching throws to him that are high.
I could not find Chavis' standing reach. Indeed, they may not even measure this in baseball.
They don't have a combine for the baseball draft that I know of, so even if teams did measure that, it wouldn't be publicly available.
JBJ 32 games, 133 PA, .205/.263/.287, 8bb/41k, .288 BAbip
X 37 games, 153 PA, .179/.242/.229, 10bb/32k, .222 BAbip
Mitch 46 games, 175 PA, .179/.251/.321, 13bb/41k, .204 BAbip
Betts 32 games, 154 PA, .229/.292/.329, 13bb/22k, .250 BAbip
Hanley 23 games, 103 PA, .207/.291/.370, 10bb/24k, .234 BAbip
Kind of amazing we've been winning games with these 5 struggling the way they have been. Mitch has been good since August though, so there's that. Devers, Nunez and Benintendi have been carrying the team of late. Vazquez and Young have been hot too but I don't think we can expect Vaz to keep hitting and Young is a part timer. We'll need at least 2 or 3 of those 5 to start hitting at some point.
I've seen a lot of worry about Xander but JBJ has been 2014 JBJ for better than a month now. 30.8% K, 6.0% BB in his last 133 PA. Hanley/Betts I'm not that worried about.
edit: That's a .570 OPS between the 5 players in 718 PA. That's basically a season's worth of Devin Marrero. For reference, Xander had 719 PA in 2016.
X 37 games, 153 PA, .179/.242/.229, 10bb/32k, .222 BAbip
Mitch 46 games, 175 PA, .179/.251/.321, 13bb/41k, .204 BAbip
Betts 32 games, 154 PA, .229/.292/.329, 13bb/22k, .250 BAbip
Hanley 23 games, 103 PA, .207/.291/.370, 10bb/24k, .234 BAbip
Kind of amazing we've been winning games with these 5 struggling the way they have been. Mitch has been good since August though, so there's that. Devers, Nunez and Benintendi have been carrying the team of late. Vazquez and Young have been hot too but I don't think we can expect Vaz to keep hitting and Young is a part timer. We'll need at least 2 or 3 of those 5 to start hitting at some point.
I've seen a lot of worry about Xander but JBJ has been 2014 JBJ for better than a month now. 30.8% K, 6.0% BB in his last 133 PA. Hanley/Betts I'm not that worried about.
edit: That's a .570 OPS between the 5 players in 718 PA. That's basically a season's worth of Devin Marrero. For reference, Xander had 719 PA in 2016.
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Since the ASB the Sox have had the second-lowest wRC+ in the American League. Remove Devers/Nunez and they'd probably be bottom of the barrel. How the heck has this team won so many games with such a pathetic offense?
Logic says there has to be an increase in run prevention.
Dont forget that they also had their roughest stretch of the season in mid July, and the offense picked up some after that. The post ASB number might be skewed by that really shitty stretch. [based on observation not analysis]
Pretty much. They lead the majors in runs per game (6.27) over the last 15 games.
But ya, it is really startling how well they are doing considering how meh the lineup is.
5 positions are below wRC+ 100, and Benny, Pedey, and Betts are between l03-107.
Devers and Nunez have been insanely valuable since being added.
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Among players with 120+ PA (i.e. about 1 PA per game), the Sox have 3 with >100 wRC+ and none above 110. By comparison, the Astros have nine above 110.
Scoring a ton of runs isn't the only path to winning games. Preventing runs does the job too. They have a +96 run differential, good for fourth best in the league (Yankees +114, Indians +128, Astros +159). There's only one more team in the AL with a positive run differential, and that's the Rangers at +26.
It would seem that other than July, which was miserable for everyone, they've gotten hot streaks from different players that have carried them for sufficient stretches even if the overall sum of all the players hasn't amounted to a lot.