Terry Coming Up Rozes
- Thread starter lovegtm
- Start date
I still think Smart gets signed unless his market value is above the MLE. Mid-level salary isn't necessarily a bad thing for teams looking to make a salary-matching blockbuster deal.
Rozier stays here if others are dealt. They aren't picking up, say, Davis without shipping Brown and/or Tatum, which would open some room.
The key for Ainge is to remain below the tax for as long as possible to delay the repeater tax clock which we will surely need down the road if everything goes as planned with many of our young stars getting paid and staying here for a sustained run.
I'd say he's more likely to be included in the deal, or flipped to a 3rd team, with the money he'll have on the table in two summers from someone like a Phoenix, Orlando, etc who need a PG to rebuild with and Rozier being the best young PG on the market. You can't pay him and Kyrie to play the same position with the Davis at $28m plus Horford still here.
I know this will be a topic that will keep us entertained throughout the offseason, but it does seem like Boston will have some really difficult roster decisions to make for next year. They could easily have a starting lineup of Kyrie, Jaylen, Hayward, Horford, Baynes/other defensive C, and a bench of Rozier, Smart, Tatum, MaMo, and Theis/Monroe. That bench could compete with many starting units. It seems like they are almost too deep at wing and we won't get to watch one of Tatum or Smart close out games.
Personally, I believe in the power of continuity a la GS Warriors and I hope they keep everybody instead of making another blockbuster, but it's kind of sad to see watch players flourish in Brad's system and know that there isn't enough room for everybody.
Personally, I believe in the power of continuity a la GS Warriors and I hope they keep everybody instead of making another blockbuster, but it's kind of sad to see watch players flourish in Brad's system and know that there isn't enough room for everybody.
Tatum isn’t being relegated to the second unit for Baynes or Theis. Horford is going to be the starting center and Tatum is going to start at a F spot alongside Hayward. We’ve entered the pace & space era and having a big wing like Tatum as third option is going to be one of the things that makes the 2019 Celtics a monster.
With or without a blockbuster we won't be able to keep everyone but the core should remain intact without a blockbuster much like the Warriors.....and with a blockbuster then THAT core figures to remain intact should they reach the levels of success that the Warriors did. The Warriors were able to hang on to Iguodala as he was getting older and didn't necessarily want to return to playing 35 mpg and Livingston was at an ideal skill level to where he wasn't sought after as a starter elsewhere. The problem I foresee with Rozier is that he will have a market to get paid in two years so for him to sign a lesser deal this summer with Kyrie blocking him doesn't seem reasonable to expect. Smart may have saved himself here by not progressing therefore limiting his options to where he *could* be our Livingston although he's still young enough to where his best bet to get paid is to go elsewhere to put up numbers rather than see limited time once Hayward returns.
For the record, and as a customer, I just wanted to say this didn't get enough love.
I know this is one of those weird, kinda made up things but per twitter:
Rozier is first player to get 33 points, 8 threes, 5 rebounds, and 5 steals in a game.
That’s a great game but I wouldn’t have thought no one had ever done it.
Not to take anything away from Rozier, but I'd probably vote Brown. To go from raw athlete whose only offense was a dunk or an occasional corner three to legitimate option on offense and plus defender in one year is seriously impressive. Makes me really excited for next year's version of Tatum.
Terry is now shooting 39% for the season from three. He has sneakily become a deadly outside shooter. And he has all variants: Catch and shoot, the pullup, coming off picks. He shot under 32% last year. Amazing.
He may not be the most improved, but I would say his improvement has been more surprising than that of Jaylen or Tatum. Those guys were high picks with hype. Terry was a pick that many were skeptical of, and his first two seasons made his ceiling seem like a decent energy guy off the bench. He is now a borderline starter at PG in this league.
He may not be the most improved, but I would say his improvement has been more surprising than that of Jaylen or Tatum. Those guys were high picks with hype. Terry was a pick that many were skeptical of, and his first two seasons made his ceiling seem like a decent energy guy off the bench. He is now a borderline starter at PG in this league.
In addition to retweeting people with his "Scary Terry" t-shirts, TRo retweeted that he still remembers draft day (tweet below). Fun article here going back over some of the draft day reaction in 2015. Good thing DA knows way more about basketball than virtually everyone else in the world.
Having never played basketball past CYO, I know I don’t know a lot. I’m a serious Celtics fan that remembers games back to 84, but I mostly only watch the Celtics. So, I don’t know a lot but I’m also aware that I don’t know a lot.
I’ve started following the Celtics even more closely since the trade of KG & Pierce. What I have learned is that most people that don’t know a lot are not aware that they don’t know a lot.
If he prices himself out of Boston, which seems likely with his performance as a starter, where is his most likely landing spot? I'd prefer they roll with him in 2019 and try to win a title, but if not, the Celtics will have to move him this summer for another rookie scale guy who might have been better regarded in the draft, but has not thrived in his current situation? Rozier has built up some serious value. Besides him going in a package for Brow or Kawhi, I'd like to see a young athletic big with lots of upside come in return.
Of the teams that need a PG:
Phoenix needs a PG, and neither Bender or Criss has lit up the league. Criss is a super freak athletically, but has the small problem of not knowing how to play basketball. I don't know too much about Bender, except he isn't as athletic or much of a scorer as first advertised.
Orlando has underwhelming rookie Jonathan Isaac, who is too young and skinny to compete effectively right now, but he has a ton of potential.
The Bucks may not be in the market for a PG, but if they were, Thon Maker has all the tools to be a basket defender/rim runner, who can also shoot the threeball. He also needs to get stronger, and isn't much of a rebounder right now.
Of the teams that need a PG:
Phoenix needs a PG, and neither Bender or Criss has lit up the league. Criss is a super freak athletically, but has the small problem of not knowing how to play basketball. I don't know too much about Bender, except he isn't as athletic or much of a scorer as first advertised.
Orlando has underwhelming rookie Jonathan Isaac, who is too young and skinny to compete effectively right now, but he has a ton of potential.
The Bucks may not be in the market for a PG, but if they were, Thon Maker has all the tools to be a basket defender/rim runner, who can also shoot the threeball. He also needs to get stronger, and isn't much of a rebounder right now.
You could expand it to teams that need SG too. I also couldn't see Orlando giving up on Jonathan Isaac that quickly. He was injured earlier in the season, and has only had a chance to play 25 games. When he has played, he's shown the ability to hit the 3 point shot and get tons and tons of deflections due to his crazy length.
I'd have loved Thon Maker last year, but seeing his development stall this year makes me wonder if he is 2-3 years older than his listed age as was rumored. I think I'd pass. Criss and Bender? No thanks. Moving Rozier 1 for 1 would be hard to do. I think he'd be traded in a package or for a 1st round pick.
terry seyz he's definitely playing. http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2018/04/boston_celtics_injuries_terry.html
So I remember back in 2015 when the team was making their improbable run to the playoffs, many here were apoplectic that the organization wasn't tanking the season for a higher draft pick. Had they instead punted the remainder of the season, they probably would have ended up with Justise Winslow instead of Rozier. That worked out nicely.
I wonder how much the uncertainty with Kyrie's knee affects offseason Rozier plans. If (god forbid) Kyrie has long-term injury issues, a Rozier-Brown-Tatum-Hayward-Horford core has a chance to be really really good, if the first 3 keep developing the way they have been. It would be a shame to trade Terry and then have Kyrie turn out to be cooked.
Unless they want extra picks (which they don’t need given what’s coming), I don’t think a Rozier trade is all that likely. His low salary alone complicates any trade scenario—you’d have to pair him with others to even get someone worth having, at which point you’ve probably hurt the depth too much to make it worth your while. Plus it wouldn’t really make sense to move Rozier without knowing what will happen with Smart.
Definitely. I am more talking about the early fall, when the Smart situation will likely be resolved, but Kyrie's health won't.
What are the restrictions on trading Rozier after he's signed to an extension? This would come into play if he has a strong playoffs, and they want the option to move him at a higher number.
Removing a wire that held the patella into place and two or more screws that knitted a bone back together is going to leave some empty places. IANAD, but refilling those gaps with the appropriate bone/flesh/collagen/whatevah sounds like a non-trivial process. The fact that Irving's initial operation gave rise to an infection means that recovery is contingent on a number of things, including best practices and good luck. I'd like to see Irving ballhandling pain-free on a court before checking the 'resolved' box.
Ah. I wasn’t thinking of resolved as solely a positive thing.
Like, by then, if it’s still bad, it’s resolved what the status is and it’s bad. But we’ll know.
Rozier is on a cheap deal for next year and he isn't an UFA for two more seasons. Unless there is an opportunity to acquire Kawhi or Davis it wouldn't seem Rozier is going anywhere any time soon.
The UFA part is a bit misleading, because other teams can force a decision on him after next year by putting up a big offer sheet. If he keeps improving at all like this, he'll likely get one.
Fair point. If a Phoenix views Rozier as their guy to run alongside Booker in the backcourt that's a max or close to max deal right there.
Yeah, if he has a good playoffs, I'd expect the Celtics would estimate his upcoming offer sheet at 15M+, based on his trajectory to this point.
He would have to improve an awful lot to get close to a max deal. For all the improvements he's made this year, he is still a flawed player and his FG% is still under .400. He's also the same age as Marcus Smart at 24. He might have one more off season of major development.
Rozier is an interesting guy but there are a lot of players around the league like him. Hitting 38% of your 3's isn't what it used to be. It's tied for 54th in the league, and that's where he gets a lot of his offensive value. I'll be interested to see what Avery Bradley gets this off season because if Rozier doesn't take another leap forward, I think he'll get a similar deal.
To get close to max, I think he has to take a huge step forward as a play maker or shooting from inside the arc.
Hitting 38% of your 3s on 7.5 attempts/36, with a lot of those in tight spaces or off the dribble, is a much rarer quality. Obviously at a different level, but Eric Gordon is a 36% 3-point shooter who terrifies defenses. Volume and difficulty matter a lot more than raw percentage.
I agree that Rozier needs another leap forward, especially finishing near the rim, but the set of things he needs to improve to get a lot of money has shrunk considerably.
If he just repeats his last 2 months, he's probably already earned himself 4/60 or so. That is a far way off from max though. Really, all he has to do is hit close to 38% of his 3s to get paid, considering the rest of his game.
Since 1/24, he's at 15.3 points, 5.2 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 1.0 steal on .407/.433/.763 shooting.
I think the set is 2 things, playmaking and finishing, but he needs to drastically improve one of those 2 things to get a deal close to max. As far as the volume thing regarding 3 point shooting, most of those guys ahead of him have crazy volume too. Hes at 40 in attempts, and there are 3-4 guys above him who are notably worse at 3 point range. It's not a slight, the game has just changed a lot. The Celtics has a whole are shooting .378 as a team and that's with Marcus Smart.
I’m not a doctor either, however my cousin has a leg loaded with hardware (thanks to a vodka fueled bet he made 40+ years ago), and he’s had infection issues over the years. So I’m not sure that this is too much a reason for concern. But DRS or RSF will eventually weigh in with more.
As for Rozier, he’s sort of an Avery Bradley type player, size limits him defensively, he needs to play next to bigger guards to be really effective. And he clearly doesn’t need to get even a near max offer to put Boston over a barrel. They likely aren’t going to pay Kyrie’s backup even 60% of max.
Terry's last 5 games have been extremely discouraging and have me a little concerned with the first round starting this weekend. This down-tick in production seems to coincide with an awkward fall under the basket. It could also be a result of playing some pretty good teams in WAS, TOR, and MIL, but these are also playoff matchups.
5 Games: 23.4 minutes, 10-38 FG (.263), 4-19 3PT (.211), 4 FTA, 5.4 PPG, 5.4RPG, 4.4APG
He's been easily trapped on offense and has not been able to turn the corner with any consistency. He's made only four free throw attempts over this span. He's been ice cold from 3 and hitting his shots at Smart'ian level.
His defense last night, in particular, was horrendous. He gave up completely when attempting to fight through picks on at least 3 separate occasions where his assignment was laughably wide open for an uncontested three.
It looks like he may also have injured his hand last night.
5 Games: 23.4 minutes, 10-38 FG (.263), 4-19 3PT (.211), 4 FTA, 5.4 PPG, 5.4RPG, 4.4APG
He's been easily trapped on offense and has not been able to turn the corner with any consistency. He's made only four free throw attempts over this span. He's been ice cold from 3 and hitting his shots at Smart'ian level.
His defense last night, in particular, was horrendous. He gave up completely when attempting to fight through picks on at least 3 separate occasions where his assignment was laughably wide open for an uncontested three.
It looks like he may also have injured his hand last night.
He has been pretty lost in the last week or so. I think that the minutes or scoring load is wearing on him.
Not sure about both hands, but it looked like he popped a knuckle back in last night while bringing the ball upcourt in an NBA game. I was impressed.
Looked to me like a garden variety dislocation. That shouldn't cost him much even on his shooting hand, if it's the last knuckle. In my amateur experience, that stays sore less time than jamming the end of it.
Its the ankle and it sucks because a lot of his value is based on energy/aggressiveness on both sides of the ball.
Jayzuzzz this season is trying:
Gordon down... fine give the extra minutes to Tatum/Brown/MaMo.
Theis down... OK Monroe will cover.
Kyrie out... let Rozier shine.
Smart out twice.... extra minutes for Larkin, not a problem.
Rozier bangs up ankle and Larkin in the hospital with flu.... raid the Maine Red Claws roster? 10day contracts? and a dude from China via Vegas?
I was getting excited about the playoffs with a healthy Rozier/Larkin in the backcourt, doesn't look like we'll even get that.
Not many would have said that before the season. What a crazy year, so disappointing with all the injuries, so rewarding with the growth of players like Brown, Tatum, Rozier and Theis. Not to mention the character the team shows night in night out.
