Swihart's Season Over: Ankle Surgery Set

Byrdbrain

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Jul 18, 2005
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No one is suggesting that Vaz get called up and unless someone gets hurt I don't imagine we will see him until rosters expand or the AAA season is over(which one depends on when Hannigan comes back as they will want three catchers right away).
It is however worth noting that our very light hitting excellent defensive catcher with no options next year is showing some signs of not being quite so light hitting.
As for Rusney that's great let's see where he is by the end of the year.
 

OCD SS

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As much as this thread is turning into Swihart v. Vasquez, so he a splash of indictment of Farrel tossed in, has anyone seen any of the pitchers go on record as to who they prefer throwing to?

My guess is that the staff, especially the starters, don't care about their reciever's offensive upside, only how comfortable they are throwing to him. Veterans especially are probably only interested in their own game, and not in managing both sides of the ball, and would rather work with someone with more experience than helping break in a rookie.

Just my $.02, but the roster moves seem to make more sense if viewed through this lens. Moving Swihart off C would fit into maximizing his value during the next few years with Mookie, X, JBJ, & Price's (expected) prime, rather than having him develop at the position during that window.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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As much as this thread is turning into Swihart v. Vasquez, so he a splash of indictment of Farrel tossed in, has anyone seen any of the pitchers go on record as to who they prefer throwing to?

My guess is that the staff, especially the starters, don't care about their reciever's offensive upside, only how comfortable they are throwing to him. Veterans especially are probably only interested in their own game, and not in managing both sides of the ball, and would rather work with someone with more experience than helping break in a rookie.

Just my $.02, but the roster moves seem to make more sense if viewed through this lens. Moving Swihart off C would fit into maximizing his value during the next few years with Mookie, X, JBJ, & Price's (expected) prime, rather than having him develop at the position during that window.
The Sox thought Swihart was the best option for LF at the time. That's why they put him there. I don't think it had anything to do with not wanting to wait for him to develop behind the plate or pitchers not liking throwing to him. They also had 3 other options behind the plate, with CV being the only other one they could send to the minors, which allowed them to move him off of catcher to fill an immediate need. If the Sox had Benintendi ready, or didn't have 3 other catching options, I don't think they would've considered putting him in LF.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Is he?

He has 2000+ minor league ABs that show he's a .240/.320/.330 hitter.

Now, his 2016 has been awesome, but is there anything to show it's anywhere close to sustainable? His last 60 plate appearances his OBP is around .300. The dude killed it for 60 PAs, and that was amazing, but I don't think he's pushed himself into the conversation as much more than a backup long term.
I'm guessing at the very least, he's worked his way into a spot on the 2017 team barring a complete collapse. Over his last 62 PA, he's slashing .344/.387/.621. He really hasn't had too much of a prolonged slump.

Hell, his career line is now .262/.322/.380 which is passable as a catcher.
 

Sox and Rocks

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I'm guessing at the very least, he's worked his way into a spot on the 2017 team barring a complete collapse. Over his last 62 PA, he's slashing .344/.387/.621. He really hasn't had too much of a prolonged slump.

Hell, his career line is now .262/.322/.380 which is passable as a catcher.
He's also been solid defensively, throwing out 44% of base stealers.

Given his low salary, he's definitely one of the two catchers on the opening roster in 2017.
 

Plympton91

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The Sox thought Swihart was the best option for LF at the time. That's why they put him there. I don't think it had anything to do with not wanting to wait for him to develop behind the plate or pitchers not liking throwing to him. They also had 3 other options behind the plate, with CV being the only other one they could send to the minors, which allowed them to move him off of catcher to fill an immediate need. If the Sox had Benintendi ready, or didn't have 3 other catching options, I don't think they would've considered putting him in LF.
You can find a passable leftfielder anywhere.

The Red Sox, including and IMHO hopefully especially their manager (who should have final say in a matter like this where no player control issues are at stake), made the decision that Vazquez's super-awesome generation defensive talent would offset his still-developing offense. They got it wrong on both counts. The defense, post-injury, was merely above-average, and the offense, generationally bad.

Swihart should have remained the starting catcher. They chose poorly. All the rest is really moot.
 
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Drek717

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You can find a passable leftfielder anywhere.
Really? Someone should have explained that to Ben Cherington back when this team couldn't find two passable OFs at the same time, let alone three.

Swihart picked up LF because it was the weakest spot in the lineup, the easiest to pick up defensively, and him playing there puts the most versatile guy on the club back on the bench. Long term it would have been a dream scenario where he and Vaz could legitimately share C with Swihart's bat getting additional play in LF. The club bet on everything working out great and basically nothing did, but the reasoning wasn't foolish, just exceedingly optimistic.

Leon has been a beast for a full quarter season at this point. He and the club attribute it to modifications he made with Chili so they've got a narrative as to why it is more meaningful than just a 141 PA hot streak (do those even exist?). He's due for some serious regression but even when that happens he's hitting like an actual good offensive catcher when he's always been a good defensive catcher by all accounts. He's the guy until someone takes it from him. I'd imagine the plan is to decline Hanigan's option, go into 2017 with Leon and Vazquez at catcher, then Swihart can take his time rehabbing and getting up to speed in AAA. Then let the situation play itself out just like this season.

For all the turnover at C this year they've gotten pretty good production out of the position. If this is the worst case scenario for C (and it'd be hard to say otherwise as the 4th option is starting and they've ran out five different people at C this season) that speaks well of organizational depth.
 

Plympton91

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Really? Someone should have explained that to Ben Cherington back when this team couldn't find two passable OFs at the same time, let alone three.
An I notice Cherignton is not currently employed in MLB. Perhaps there's a correlation.


Swihart picked up LF because it was the
weakest spot in the lineup, the easiest to pick up defensively, and him playing there puts the most versatile guy on the club back on the bench. Long term it would have been a dream
scenario where he and Vaz could legitimately
share C with Swihart's bat getting additional play in LF. The club bet on everything working out great and basically nothing did, but the reasoning wasn't foolish, just exceedingly
optimistic.


Leon has been a beast for a full quarter season at this point. He and the club attribute it to
modifications he made with Chili so they've got
a narrative as to why it is more meaningful than just a 141 PA hot streak (do those even exist?). He's due for some serious regression but even when that happens he's hitting like an actual
good offensive catcher when he's always been
a good defensive catcher by all accounts. He's the guy until someone takes it from him. I'd imagine the plan is to decline Hanigan's option, go into 2017 with Leon and Vazquez at catcher, then Swihart can take his time rehabbing and
getting up to speed in AAA. Then let the situation play itself out just like this season.

For all the turnover at C this year they've gotten
pretty good production out of the position. If
this is the worst case scenario for C (and it'd be hard to say otherwise as the 4th option is starting and they've ran out five different people at C this season) that speaks well of
organizational depth.


Leon's emergence is a great story and fortunate development. It was completely outside of the decision set when choosing between Vazquez and Swihart in mid April. That was a completely isolated case of "choose the better player right now.". They flunked the test.
 

nothumb

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One could argue they made the wrong choice between Vaz and Swihart in April, but it was a judgment call and a close one. You can debit them for some lost developmental time for Swi behind the plate perhaps, but I don't put the injury on that tab. And missing a few months of work at C (the most likely outcome of that alleged error in judgment) is not the death knell to Swihart's career that it has been made out to be by some people here.

There is luck and volatility in roster construction and player performance. The Sox look to be in decent shape at the C position for the near future at least. At the end of the day, even if they may have made some debatable mistakes with Swihart or Vaz, they also hit on Leon and they still have all three guys under control for cheap. You can spin the steps that got us here in either direction til the cows come home, but I'm not ready to call for anyone's head over it.
 

dhappy42

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Swihart and Vaz were a tossup and considering Swihart has more versatility, i.e. can play the field, the Sox's decision made perfect sense. But boy did a potential debacle turn into a delightful story with Leon's emergence from nowhere. I keep waiting for him to fall back to earth but he's still batting .389. and hitting HRs at nearly the same rate as Hanley Ramirez. His new approach at the plate seems for real.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Swihart and Vaz were a tossup and considering Swihart has more versatility, i.e. can play the field, the Sox's decision made perfect sense. But boy did a potential debacle turn into a delightful story with Leon's emergence from nowhere. I keep waiting for him to fall back to earth but he's still batting .389. and hitting HRs at nearly the same rate as Hanley Ramirez. His new approach at the plate seems for real.
No, it didn't. Regardless of the ankle injury, moving Swihart to the OF didn't make perfect sense, for all the various reasons that folks objected to it when it happened. There was an argument for doing it, sure. But it wasn't a slam-dunk, especially considering Swihart's trade value as a catcher and the 2016 team's need for another starting pitcher.

And playing Swihart in LF especially doesn't make perfect sense if the choice between Swihart and Vazquez at catcher was a tossup. Because that would mean that with some extra time in AAA improving his catcher-related skills, Swihart would have a clear advantage over Vazquez (barring the latter himself enjoying a Leon-esque offensive surge).

But, that didn't happen. So the clear indication is that the powers that actually decide these things (instead of post about them on messageboards) never actually considered it "a tossup" between the two players.
 

pjr

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