Spikes placed on season ending IR
- Thread starter bsj
- Start date
He's been laboring out there for some time, and aggravated the knee further against Buffalo, so I can't say this took me completely by surprise.
Mystic Merlin said:
No not complete surprise as I believe there was even a report a few weeks ago that he would need surgery after the season but by all accounts he was fighting through it and would continue to throughout the playoffs.
Next man up. Hightower, Collins, Fletcher time to step up.
This isn't a big loss unless the Patriots make the SuperBowl. If they square up against a good running team, then...ouch.
And that's all she wrote for Spikes in NE. So long and thanks for all the hits.
It's too bad. I love watching him--he's such a physical gamer a gamer and had a knack for the big play.
It doesn't hurt us on the field that much though. Hightower should be just fine playing where Spikes would have, and Hightower/Spikes are such a crappy combo on passing downs that you don't really want them both on the team at the same time.
Time for Collins to put on his big boy pants.
It's too bad. I love watching him--he's such a physical gamer a gamer and had a knack for the big play.
It doesn't hurt us on the field that much though. Hightower should be just fine playing where Spikes would have, and Hightower/Spikes are such a crappy combo on passing downs that you don't really want them both on the team at the same time.
Time for Collins to put on his big boy pants.
So Denver and the Colts mostly play 3 WR anyway, so I'm not sure how huge of a blow this is. Fletcher has seen time in the nickel lately and Collins has also played better. We may also see some 3 safety looks with Harmon or Wilson.
Edit: or what KFP said
Edit: or what KFP said
Spikes' impact wouldn't be felt until they face a power running team. The remaining 3 AFC teams don't run a lot out of power sets so the Patriots most likely would be in sub packages to begin with. This puts more pressure on Hightower, Fletcher, and Collins but they were playing a lot to begin with.
Believe me, if they are still around to face an NFC power team like Seattle/SF/Carolina I'd be more than happy to deal with that issue.
Believe me, if they are still around to face an NFC power team like Seattle/SF/Carolina I'd be more than happy to deal with that issue.
Ed Hillel said:
Remember when Edelman crunched LDT back in 2011? Trying to find the highlight now.
M
MentalDisabldLst
Guest
Next year Brady and Belichick should just abandon this whole "talented NFL roster" strategy and pay dozens of D-III college guys $50K each to hang around Gillette practicing with TB12 and learning the ropes. If 5-50 of them go down, so be it. Just put the next guy in there. They'll still win 11-14 games and get the 2 seed. They can use every draft pick on tough to fill specialty spots like punter and finding the next Tom Brady. It will save us a lot of hand wringing when the big names go down, too. The only part that might suck is when Brady/BB get snubbed for for the top media awards such as MVP and Coach of the Year, respectively. Personally I think it seems unlikely Brady can throw 56 TDs next season with Timmy from Bates catching passes, but perhaps I'm being unnecessarily pessimistic. I wouldn't bet against it, either.
Jesus cant catch a break.
I think this will hurt a bit even in the AFC playoffs. Spikes played the majority of snaps against the Broncos, he wasnt an ideal sub package player but he allowed the Pats to play sub packages and still have a strong run defender on the field.
Also really crushes depth at LB, we're one injury away from some real Eric Alexander plays the AFCCG type scenarios
I think this will hurt a bit even in the AFC playoffs. Spikes played the majority of snaps against the Broncos, he wasnt an ideal sub package player but he allowed the Pats to play sub packages and still have a strong run defender on the field.
Also really crushes depth at LB, we're one injury away from some real Eric Alexander plays the AFCCG type scenarios
The Pats should go sign Gary Brackett or Mike Curtis or Ted Hendricks or somebody.
[Did a quick hunt for all-time great linebackers... not really all that much there.]
[Did a quick hunt for all-time great linebackers... not really all that much there.]
LOL, it's just like the T.J. Ward hit on Gronk!Hambone said:
Courtesy of Sox Scout in the 2011 game thread
Stitch01 said:
Right. Not to be overly pessimistic or anything, but the position that this may not be a big deal because of usage issues, while correct in terms of analysis of usage, are missing the irony of assuming there won't be any more LB injuries in response to news of a LB injury.
That said, I assume Belichick has already been planning for this contingency. And a bunch of other shit I wouldn't understand.
Super Nomario said:
Shush you.*
*I thought the exact same thing.
I am convinced that had they played the first game Saturday or the second Sunday, the other half would have gone down.BigSoxFan said:
More seriously, BB himself raised the issue whether the workplace restrictions imposed by the most recent CBA has generally made the injury situation worse. He plainly believes it has. Undoubtedly he also is asking whether the Pats' adaptation to that regime has made the team's situation relatively worse still.
Hard to see how Gronk, Vollmer, Mayo, and probably Wilfork avoid injury under any training regime and Wilson wasn't going to start anyways. I'm sure they'll examine it, but hard to see how shit luck isn't the driving cause for the guys gone for the year.
Fair enough. But BB recently riffed on this at some length, and his remarks received national coverage. And he plainly was motivated by his own situation -- cause he doesn't care much about anyone else's situation.Stitch01 said:
We have had bad injury years; street free agents playing in Super Bowls. But this has been more extensive and wide ranging than any year Ivcan recall for this team.
I don't think those comments were just driven by the Pats situation. He explicitly mentioned league wide injuries.
BB is always learning about football, so I do expect he will look with interest at what other teams did this season with training, particularly in Philadelphia. I think he'd be doing that regardless of Pats injuries though and my null hypothesis is that the biggest factor behind the rash of season ending injuries is shit luck. I'm more interested in what (if anything) might be done to better prevent the nagging injuries that seem to plague the secondary and, to a lesser extent, receiving corps (the answer very well might be not much)
BB is always learning about football, so I do expect he will look with interest at what other teams did this season with training, particularly in Philadelphia. I think he'd be doing that regardless of Pats injuries though and my null hypothesis is that the biggest factor behind the rash of season ending injuries is shit luck. I'm more interested in what (if anything) might be done to better prevent the nagging injuries that seem to plague the secondary and, to a lesser extent, receiving corps (the answer very well might be not much)
Ja'Gared Davis and Taylor Reed are the LB on the practice squad. Either would likely move up to fill Beauharnais' spot on special teams.
Ja'Gared Davis is most likely asFL4WL3SS said:
EDIT: as MM points out, Taylor Reed also a LB. I think Davis is more likely as he's been on the roster already.
Dammit. While Spikes isn't needed to be an every-down player against the Colts, or the Chargers/Broncos, close games will often have a 4th and 1, or ball-on-less-than-the-half-yard-line play where the personnel that the offense puts out there basically guarantees a run. In those situations this year, my memory has it that the Pats have been pretty darn stout, and I'm sure Spikes plays a big role in that (as do others, of course). While he's not best as an every-down backer, he is very good at certain things, and those skills will be missed.
Assuming we beat the Colts, it's entirely possible Knowshon runs for 400 yards against us in Denver.
Borges with a "Spikes as admirable tough guy" column this morning. For Borges, it was actually not that bad. For Borges.
Many Pats fans seem to be reacting that it's no big loss because the Colts are not a running team (and neither are the Donkeys).
But so what? Even if that was true -- and the Donkeys sure looked like a running team the last time the Pats played them -- it's also true that every team runs the ball to some degree. With the DLine as altered as it is, losing Spikes is a huge kick in the balls against the run.
Serious question: Has any team suffered more injuries to core guys than the Pats? That may be a Pats colored question. But I think the answer is no. Please enlighten me if I am wrong.
Many Pats fans seem to be reacting that it's no big loss because the Colts are not a running team (and neither are the Donkeys).
But so what? Even if that was true -- and the Donkeys sure looked like a running team the last time the Pats played them -- it's also true that every team runs the ball to some degree. With the DLine as altered as it is, losing Spikes is a huge kick in the balls against the run.
Serious question: Has any team suffered more injuries to core guys than the Pats? That may be a Pats colored question. But I think the answer is no. Please enlighten me if I am wrong.
TheoShmeo said:
When the Packers won the Super Bowl three years ago, they had 15 guys on IR, including one of their best defensive players, Woodson, and best receiver, Driver. It was a remarkable accomplishment.
Still, this is a damn shame.
Woodson was knocked out during the Super Bowl, and Driver didn't miss a game in 2010. And he was far from their 'best receiver'. Jennings and, arguably, Nelson and Jones were better players at that point.
You're otherwise dead-on about the amount of injuries they withstood. I believe they lost the most man-games of any Super Bowl champion (perhaps the runner-ups as well).
I think the big dogs they lost were Nick Barnett, Ryan Grant, and Jermichael Finley. Morgan Burnett and Brady Poppinga were other notable casualties.
You're otherwise dead-on about the amount of injuries they withstood. I believe they lost the most man-games of any Super Bowl champion (perhaps the runner-ups as well).
I think the big dogs they lost were Nick Barnett, Ryan Grant, and Jermichael Finley. Morgan Burnett and Brady Poppinga were other notable casualties.
Mystic Merlin said:
Thanks for the correction. Neither of those two were on IR, but played marginal roles in the game because of injuries. That year, they lost 91 man-games, which was highest in the League.
At a certain point, you're like the German staff at the end of WW II, deploying imaginary divisions. Fortunately, we have the best HC and one of the best QBs, and you play only one opponent at a time.
It's been clear for a while that we need to draw an inside straight to win the SB this year. Everyone available needs to be at his best, they really can't afford anyone else of consequence going down at this point, and the other games probably need to break right to produce favorable matchups.
TheoShmeo said:
I disagree--it's a kick in the balls but not a huge one. They're going to play nickel most of the game, so now it's Hightower+Collins or Fletcher rather than Spikes or Hightower + Collins or Fletcher. I like spikes but in passing-oriented game when you have Hightower you should be able to get by without much of a drop-off.
I've always thought that they picked Hightower with the idea that he'd ultimately take Spikes' job so this just accelerates that a little.
I think Siliga's emergence softens the blow quite a bit. He's been much more effective in the "true NT" role than Vellano or Chris Jones or even Sopoaga. PFF grades back this up: he's at +7.2, which is outstanding for only playing 221 snaps. And it's had a ripple effect through the run D - Hightower has looked much better with Siliga soaking up blockers in front of him. I think this would be much more damaging six weeks ago.TheoShmeo said:
The other issue with Spikes is although he played through the knee injury, he was not right and came out of the Buffalo game because of the injury. Either his injury is getting worse or the Pats looked at his tape and thought they needed to make a change because he was not blowing up blockers like he normally does. Siliga has played great the last few games at NT and really improved the Pats against the run.Shelterdog said:
Right and my imprecisely written point was not intended to compare the Pats to NFL teams of all time.dcmissle said:
It was more to other teams in the NFL in this season. Every team suffers serious injuries, of course. But has any team lost so many critical players in 2013?
I think most people would put Gronk and Vince in the Pats top 5 most important contributors and certainly the top 10 if not the top 5. And Mayo is probably top 10 for most people and certainly the top 15 if not not the top 10. Vollmer is pretty far up there, too. However you rank these guys exactly -- and it's hard to compare positions -- I'm hard put to find many teams that have lost so many upper tier guys.
In Pats history, this reminds me a little of 1990 when they lost three key defensive starters in the last exhibition game.
Oh, and the subject of this thread, Spikes, isn't one of those critical, top tier guys. His injury just puts a fine point on how many important players they are missing.
All hail Tom and Bill and depth.
TheoShmeo said:
The only team that I think would have been in the same area code -- after Saturday's machine gun slaying -- was KC, but of course they did not advance.
One of our colleagues noted that Carolina is a bit nicked up, but NO is healthy, SF is healthy and getting healthier -- and Sea is so damn crazy deep it does not seem to matter. AFC, nobody is close to the Pats' situation.
Prior to this game, KC was super-healthy this year.dcmissle said:
I think by this time of year a lot of teams have injuries. If we look at the Colts, they're short their #1 WR (Wayne), #1 TE (Dwayne Allen), their #1 and #2 RBs entering the year (Vick Ballard and Ahmad Bradshaw) and their starting LG (Donald Thomas) - that's a ton of offensive talent. On D, Pat Angerer in on IR, and they just put Greg Toler and Fili Moala, two more starters on. That's a comparable number of starters and key players to the Patriots overall, I'd say.
Denver's down their starting LT (Clady) and C (Koppen). On D, their best player (Von MIller) is on IR, as are two more starters in Kevin Vickerson and Rahim Moore, and Champ Bailey basically hasn't played all year (less than 200 snaps).
Green Bay might have had the worst injury situation in the league, with Rodgers missing 7 games and his backup Seneca Wallace going on IR almost immediately after, LT Bryan Bulaga missing the whole year, Clay Matthews missing 6 games, Casey Hayward playing just 3 games, Randall Cobb and JerMichael Finley both missing like 11 games each.
Cincy ended the year without arguably their best corners (Hall and Newman), their best player (Atkins) another key DL (Geathers), a cover LB in Lamur, and one of their starting G (Boling). Not only that, but Andy Dalton stayed healthy.
And of course, sad sacks like Houston (Foster, Cushing, Daniels, Manning, Tate) and Atlanta (Baker, Biermann, Johnson, Jones, Weatherspoon) had crappy injury luck as part of their seasons.
The Pats are probably one of the 10 most injured teams, but they might not be top 5.
