Sox in on Sonny Gray?

[RedOctober3829]

Jeff Passan of Yahoo reports that the Red Sox have been scouting Sonny Gray.

"Gray is thus far the belle of the trade-season ball, though it’s early yet. What’s becoming more obvious is that it’s not just the Yankees, Astros and Cubs that are in on Gray. The …

6. Boston Red Sox have quietly sent some of their most respected evaluators to his last two starts. This could fall under standard due diligence, but one source familiar with their intentions said the Red Sox are keen for Gray – and when president Dave Dombrowski targets a player, the price for other teams jumps accordingly."

Yes, Doug Fister looked fine Sunday, but the prospect of him being a long-term solution at the back end of the rotation isn’t nearly as appealing as adding Gray to a rotation with Chris Sale and a bunch of question marks. Considering one of those costs $210 million (greetings, David Price!) and the other is the reigning AL Cy Young winner (here’s to regression, Rick Porcello!), giving up yet another prospect haul is far from ideal.

Another possibility, according to another source, is that Dombrowski pursues a power-hitting third baseman and stack a relief pitcher to fill the role Tyler Thornburg was supposed to before his season-ending surgery. Closer Craig Kimbrel has been almost unhittable this season. And with Kimbrel and Joe Kelly locking down leads, another arm to give the Red Sox a trio like the 2014 Royals or 2016 Yankees might be too tantalizing for Dombrowski to pass up. The issue – the same one the Nationals are confronting – is whether that sort of impact reliever actually exists.

Getting Gray may be easier than the third base-reliever combo. Every team wants someone like him, more because of what they believe he can be rather than what he has been."

https://sports.yahoo.com/dodgers-coming-age-nightmare-rest-mlb-130418406.html

 

[RIrooter09]

Please no. Fister is a fine placeholder until Rodriguez returns. Pitching has not been the issue this year, and I'd prefer Dombrowski not further gut the system.

 

[doc]

Can he play third and either hit or field?

 

[simplicio]

Yeah, doesn't adding Gray to a rotation of "Chris Sale and a bunch of question marks" get you a rotation of Chris Sale and a bunch of question marks?

 

[SouthernBoSox]

Yeah, doesn't adding Gray to a rotation of "Chris Sale and a bunch of question marks" get you a rotation of Chris Sale and a bunch of question marks?

Exactly.

This team needs a third baseman. It's far away the greatest need. This seems like doing something to just do something

 

[trekfan55]

Jeff Passan of Yahoo reports that the Red Sox have been scouting Sonny Gray.


6. Boston Red Sox have quietly sent some of their most respected evaluators to his last two starts. This could fall under standard due diligence, but one source familiar with their intentions said the Red Sox are keen for Gray – and when president Dave Dombrowski targets a player, the price for other teams jumps accordingly."



https://sports.yahoo.com/dodgers-coming-age-nightmare-rest-mlb-130418406.html

This is very interesting. But I echo the feelings of many here, the Sox really need a 3rd baseman. The slot in the rotation has not been so bad with Velazquez and now Fister and Brian Johnson before him. Velazquez's first start was putrid but his relief appearance and his second start were good enough and barring a few miscues in the 2nd inning and a few hits here and there Fister's start yesterday would have been even better than it was.

But let him look around and show interest.

 

[nattysez]

Please no. Fister is a fine placeholder until Rodriguez returns. Pitching has not been the issue this year, and I'd prefer Dombrowski not further gut the system.

Particularly not for a guy who seems to be in the midst of some fairly significant issues. He has been an average to below-average pitcher for over a year now, and one would hope there is enough institutional knowledge and embarrassment in the Sox FO over their non-Sale pitching acquisitions that they'd avoid an A's pitcher with injury question marks.

 

[czar]

Particularly not for a guy who seems to be in the midst of some fairly significant issues. He has been an average to below-average pitcher for over a year now, and one would hope there is enough institutional knowledge and embarrassment in the Sox FO over their non-Sale pitching acquisitions that they'd avoid an A's pitcher with injury question marks.

Gray has actually been much better this year. FBv is up ~0.5mph, SwStr% is a career high, K%-BB% highest since rookie year, etc. Peripherally, this is one of his best MLB seasons (caveat, it is only 64+ IP).

Also, even last year when he "sucked" he was still an above-average pitcher by DIPS-style metrics (ex: xFIP+ = 97). Assuming Gray stays healthy, Beane not dealing him this offseason (when his value was low) should pay off handsomely.

That said, my guess is the cost is not worth the marginal upgrade in the rotation assuming E-Rod remains quasi-healthy the rest of the way and you are assuming Price, Sale, and Porcello are locked into taking turns no matter what.

 

[grimshaw]

I could really only see this if Price gets injured or just isn't going to be right this year and/or Rodriguez has a set back.

I hope to god he doesn't use their remaining chips on Sonny Gray.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The Red Sox are going to be "in on" a crapload of players between now and the deadline. Some will make more sense than others.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

No on Gray. Not because he's not solid, but because I don't want the team to expend the resources necessary to get a guy who might not end up as one of your top 3 pitchers for a playoff series (and if ERod is healthy, maybe not top 4).

I also agree that fixing 3B and adding to the BP would solve bigger problems, and can be done with players likely to be cheaper than Gray, assuming the Sox look for "mid-level" improvements and don't try to add All Star caliber players.

 

[Doug Branscombe]

Sonny Gray and David Price are from Vanderbilt. Could we hope that the 2 being together would help both of them regain the form that has made them so effective through most of their careers?

 

[RIrooter09]

Sonny Gray and David Price are from Vanderbilt. Could we hope that the 2 being together would help both of them regain the form that has made them so effective through most of their careers?

No

 

[54thMA]

Please no. Fister is a fine placeholder until Rodriguez returns. Pitching has not been the issue this year, and I'd prefer Dombrowski not further gut the system.

This.

Don't trade away anymore chips, the shelves are low enough on stock at this point.

 

[luckysox]

I'm a no on Gray, but it is possible that the Sox are in no way banking on having EdRo back and healthy for the rest of the season - because it appears his knee can and will just sublux at about any old time it wants to. So counting on him as a stabilizing force in the rotation is not really a great plan, either.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

The Red Sox are going to be "in on" a crapload of players between now and the deadline. Some will make more sense than others.

Yes, this. And some of those players they're reported to be "in on" they probably won't even be remotely interested in. It benefits the A's to have the Red Sox among whatever teams are rumored to be interested in Gray. Whether Dombrowski is really interested in him or not, I expect Billy Beane is perfectly happy to fan those rumors if it results in squeezing an extra prospect out of the Yankees or Cubs or Astros for him.

 

[edoug]

Gray no but old friend Jed Lowrie might be a nice pick up, If healthy.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Sonny Gray and David Price are from Vanderbilt. Could we hope that the 2 being together would help both of them regain the form that has made them so effective through most of their careers?

Can they come as a package along with 2012 Pedro Alvarez at 3B and really ramp up the Vandy collection?

 

[MikeM]

I'm a no on Gray, but it is possible that the Sox are in no way banking on having EdRo back and healthy for the rest of the season - because it appears his knee can and will just sublux at about any old time it wants to. So counting on him as a stabilizing force in the rotation is not really a great plan, either.

I'm more tempted to believe this all just amounts to media hype, but that definitely crossed my mind here.

 

[nvalvo]

Gray no but old friend Jed Lowrie might be a nice pick up, If healthy.

I'll second interest in Lowrie. They have some interesting veterans in the pen also, in Hendricks and Madson who might be worth a look.

 

[Maximus]

I've always liked Sonny Gray but Fister is fine until Erod returns. A good BP arm is needed and not a Fernando Abad type reliever unless Carson Smith is really ready. 3B is a black hole but we just need a bridge to Devers. The prospect drawer is light now.

 

[MikeM]

I've always liked Sonny Gray but Fister is fine until Erod returns. A good BP arm is needed and not a Fernando Abad type reliever unless Carson Smith is really ready. 3B is a black hole but we just need a bridge to Devers. The prospect drawer is light now.

It so light too that we don't even have anything I can see getting a deal done on Gray other then Devers, which I'd ultimately give DD the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't be interested in doing that atm.

I mean the only remotely plausible trade scenario I can even think of offhand would have to revolve around a swap for Erod, with the Sox maybe seeing a little too much "always going to be something" Buchholz type potential there and feeling they'd be left trading up in regards to the overall contribution going towards this current window.

 

[Sampo Gida]

Dont mind running the Price up on the Yankees but I'm more interested in fixing the offense with an upgrade at 3B if Lin doesn't pan out, and at DH where two bum shoulders are obviously hampering Hanley to the point he should be on the DL (15 RBI , 362 SLG over last 38 GS is unacceptable production)

I'd like to take a chance on Carter for DH if the Yankees can't trade him after being DFA. If it doesn't work out at least Hanley got some rest and there is still time. Either that or Travis.

If they do go after Gray what would it take? Johnson and Groome? Add in Swihart? Castillo if we eat some salary? Expand the deal to include Lowrie and throw in Owens and Lin?

Is Gray even healthy? Hopefully someone takes a hard look at those medicals. Red Sox dont seem too proficient in this area.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I agree with luckysox that there could be something about Rodriguez that's known only to the staff. It's the best explanation of the rumor - giving up something to end up with 6 starters (unless Pomerantz goes back to the bullpen) or one of the 6 is traded for offense.

It looks like the Red Sox are 100% committed to a defensive team, which may be the only option with a club that's in the middle of the pack in runs scored and relies on multiple hits to score those runs. I, for one, can't calculate the benefits (in wins) for a marginal upgrade at one position (3B) when the catchers are hitting for higher average than the DH, RF, CF and 1B. It's the starting staff that needs to propel the 2017 Red Sox into the playoffs.

So, get Sonny - because Ortiz ain't walking through that door and I don't want to see the Yankees or the Orioles improve and I don't trust Rodriguez' health.

 

[Detts]

Groome and Chavis would be automatic. Throw in one of Owens or Johnson. Edro goes. A couple of low minors lottery tickets.

You had better be god damn sure you can do it this year because other than Devers the Sox are on their own.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Groome and Chavis would be automatic. Throw in one of Owens or Johnson. Edro goes. A couple of low minors lottery tickets.

You had better be god damn sure you can do it this year because other than Devers the Sox are on their own.

I thought we already made the Sale trade?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Groome and Chavis would be automatic. Throw in one of Owens or Johnson. Edro goes. A couple of low minors lottery tickets.

You had better be god damn sure you can do it this year because other than Devers the Sox are on their own.

Groome, Chavis, Johnson, Rodriguez, and lottery tickets for Sonny Gray? That's an epic overpay

 

[Stitch01]

Can't see trading for Gray. He's a league averagish pitcher who is likely to command a big package in return. Reminds me of the Teheran trade rumors from a couple of years back, the name is well ahead of the performance.

 

[Detts]

I don't disagree that it is an overpay. Yanks pitching sucks and they have a deep system. I would never ever ever do that trade

 

[chawson]

Can't see trading for Gray. He's a league averagish pitcher who is likely to command a big package in return. Reminds me of the Teheran trade rumors from a couple of years back, the name is well ahead of the performance.

Exactly this. Situation reeks of Teheran.

Sonny Gray is decent, but he's been wildly overrated since his rookie brilliance against Verlander in the 2013 ALDS. Even taking his two best years (2014-15), his WAR is in the class of Phil Hughes, Collin McHugh, Lance Lynn and Nathan Eovaldi — not a top-flight pitcher. Don't do it.

I'm shocked Madson is still an effective reliever at 36 and having missed three whole seasons, but he is. It'd make for a pretty expensive 2018 bullpen, though. I could see the A's wanting to move Doolittle before he inevitably breaks again. He's looking a little like Andrew Miller at the moment.

 

[jon abbey]

Yanks pitching sucks

Since we're talking about Gray, I'll assume you meant the rotation here and ask you even if NY was willing to give up a package for Gray (which I doubt), who would he replace in NY's rotation? Severino and Montgomery are both in the top 10 in the AL in ERA, Tanaka and Pineda aren't going anywhere unless they're hurt, and Sabathia is supposed to be back within the week. Gray would make more sense as an offseason move when Pineda and Sabathia and possibly Tanaka will be gone, but even then I kind of doubt Cashman would be willing to give up enough for OAK.

 

[Plympton91]

I agree with luckysox that there could be something about Rodriguez that's known only to the staff. It's the best explanation of the rumor - giving up something to end up with 6 starters (unless Pomerantz goes back to the bullpen) or one of the 6 is traded for offense.


.

This is actually something we should all be keeping in mind. A playoff rotation of of Sale, Porcello, Rodriguez, and Price means we have a new lockdown lefty in Pomeranz for the playoffs to join Kimbrell and Kelly.

This just reinforces the need for a 3B. And the A's have Ryan Healy, who's ready now, and who a suddenly less patient John Henry might be fine exchanging the higher upside of Devers to get.

There are lots of reasons for the Red Sox to be watching the A's other than Gray.

Also, what about Doolittle? His stats are pretty this year after a bunch of injuries the past couple seasons?

 

[Lowrielicious]

Also, what about Doolittle? His stats are pretty this year after a bunch of injuries the past couple seasons?

You of all people are suggesting giving up some prospect of value for an oft injured reliever?

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Do not expect consistency from Red Sox Third Basemen, nor from Plympton.

 

[Plympton91]

You of all people are suggesting giving up some prospect of value for an oft injured reliever?

It would depend on how much value and the prognosis for August-October 2017. But it is not what I am suggesting g should be done, it is what I am suggesting the Red Sox might be contemplating.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

And the A's have Ryan Healy, who's ready now, and who a suddenly less patient John Henry might be fine exchanging the higher upside of Devers to get.

I would hate to see them go after Healy, who appears to have a pretty bad glove. Especially given Xander's limitations, I think it's important to have an average-or-better defender at third. His main advantage over Moustakas or Frazier is that he's not a rental. But it's not clear that we need more than a rental.