SOSH Running Dogs

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
348
Orange, CT
Ok, I'm in for Boston. Anyone else? I've cut back the December race in MS to the half instead of the full. Will just have to train properly and trust it.
 
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rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
348
Orange, CT
In for Boston! Looks like my normal routine of being fat and lazy during the winter will have to change.
Congrats! Quite an accomplishment.

Yeah, this winter is going to suck. I've got work travel to Canada specifically to find cold weather. Guess I may have to take up snowshoeing!
 

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
348
Orange, CT
Ok, so now I have to train for Boston. My sons XC Coach ran it a few times (40+ marathons total). Said he always had to walk backwards down stairs after the race. WTFO! Sure would like to avoid that since I'm hoping friends/family make the trek.

Anyone got suggestions? Is the running the course an option as part of training? I'm less worried about Heartbreak than the downhill miles to start.
 

GreenMountain

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
122
Maine
Ok, so now I have to train for Boston. My sons XC Coach ran it a few times (40+ marathons total). Said he always had to walk backwards down stairs after the race. WTFO! Sure would like to avoid that since I'm hoping friends/family make the trek.

Anyone got suggestions? Is the running the course an option as part of training? I'm less worried about Heartbreak than the downhill miles to start.
Mix in a good set of hill repeats every week or every other week during your training. On every other repeat run down the hill at race speed or faster instead of walking or jogging down. It will help get your quads in shape to run downhill.

Aside from the initial downhill I didn't really feel like I was running downhill for most of the Boston course. Mile 16 is a big drop and then 17-21 pretty much suck because they are all through long hills, finishing with Heartbreak. Everybody focuses on the uphills here, but there is almost as much downhill in this section.

Definitely sore afterward but no more so than other marathons and I credit the extra downhill repeats. Not sure how much they are a factor, but I'll be doing them again this winter.
 

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
348
Orange, CT
My marathon is Sunday. Both my wife and I (she's running, too) have come down with serious chest colds, and to add insult to injury, I woke up on Sunday with a swollen left foot (upper, mid). I went to the doctor yesterday and he prescribed me some anti-inflammatory meds (5 days worth), which help a bit, but I think it's tendonitis so I'm dubious if it will be all better by Sunday. Great.

I'm still planning to run, I guess with some loose laces, Ben Gay, and Tylenol, but jesus christ, talk about a rough hand to be dealt a week before the race of the year.
Yeah, not cool Destiny! Wish I had something to offer. Regardless of what you do, be mindful of the difference between sore and pain (damage). There are other marathons.

I'm dealing with my own stupidity giving me Achilles tendonosis. It takes the joy out of running some days.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
I tell myself I'm like Pedro coming out with a sore shoulder in '99 against Cleveland.

I shouldn't run while taking NSAIDs, right?
 

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
348
Orange, CT
I tell myself I'm like Pedro coming out with a sore shoulder in '99 against Cleveland.

I shouldn't run while taking NSAIDs, right?
Everything I've read says it is a bad idea to use NSAIDS running long distance. Could always page a Dr to the forum...DRS probably knows a good island doc to get advice!
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Yep - my ITB was ignoring/not being aware of what the slow gradual buildup of tightness and pain in my knee was, killed off two races I'd paid for and has slowed me for twelve months.

But Leather, bearing in mind I don't have a fucking clue what NSAIDS are, I'd just fucking run and walk on Sunday and know I was taking the next few months off.
 

fiskful of dollars

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Jul 14, 2005
2,874
Charlottesville, VA
NSAIDS (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) are fine. No restrictions. Not sure where you heard this, but NSAIDS and other anti-inflammatory meds are an appropriate adjunct to relieve pain, soreness and inflammation. They should be used (like all meds) conservatively and never used to mask pain due to injury, overuse, etc. In addition, ice, stretching, foam-rolling, yoga, massage and a visit to a physical therapist are all useful in the treatment of endurance-related injuries/soreness.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
NSAIDS (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) are fine. No restrictions. Not sure where you heard this, but NSAIDS and other anti-inflammatory meds are an appropriate adjunct to relieve pain, soreness and inflammation. They should be used (like all meds) conservatively and never used to mask pain due to injury, overuse, etc. In addition, ice, stretching, foam-rolling, yoga, massage and a visit to a physical therapist are all useful in the treatment of endurance-related injuries/soreness.
I am not doubting you. But there is information out there warning against NSAID use before/during endurance events.

For example: http://www.livestrong.com/article/515434-taking-advil-before-running/

and

http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-treatment/what-runners-should-know-about-pain-medications
 

fiskful of dollars

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Jul 14, 2005
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Yeah I've seen these articles. There are NO peer reviewed scientific papers suggesting that NSAIDS should be avoided by endurance athletes. In fact they are a mainstay of treatment. While the linked articles bring up some good points, the use of NSAIDS should not be considered contraindicated if you are an endurance athlete. Like all medications, NSAIDS can have deleterious effects...renal trouble/GI issues with ibuprofen (Motrin/Advil), liver toxicity with Tylenol - (no worries if you have a healthy liver and don't OD). If you have intolerance of any medication or don't respond to it, it should definitely be discontinued. Many people cannot take NSAIDS for various reasons. Side effects can occur but fortunately they are relatively uncommon.
If you ask me as a doc and a triathlete/distance runner, NSAID use is safe AND effective at managing minor musculoskeletal issues while training/racing. I have an IM triathlon in 2 weeks and I'm popping 600mg of Motrin right now just to spite you guys.

Good luck with your training. Take NSAIDS if you need them, but monitor dosages, be sensible and listen to your body.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
I remember at the start line of the trail22 I did earlier this year, dudes were handing around a packet of Voltaren (anti-inflammatories) and everyone was just popping them.

Also I signed up for a 50kUltra trail run yesterday.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
Alright. Two Advil and some pseudofed an hour before race time, it is.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
I don't know what those are. Whatever your version of anti-inflammatories are. Mine's called Voltaren. You can't take them twice, right?

If the pain is bad you need them to even toe the start line, you're in for a really long fucking day and that's not a good thing.

If you have a thing that is going to get inflamed as you continue on, like ITB for me, you want to take them just before the start (as long as you've taken them before and know that when you take them they're not going to immediately make you throw up or get dizzy or whatever) so they start to provide you with relief and slow the inflammation as the inflammation gets worse on your run.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
My feet are actually fine, now. It's this fucking chest cold that's bugging me more. Double dip of shitty timing.
 

GreenMountain

Member
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Nov 4, 2007
122
Maine
I am looking for fueling ideas for a long race. I have a difficult trail marathon coming up on the 22nd. It's up and over Burke mountain in Northeast Vermont. I did it last year and completely ran out of steam in the last 6-10 miles. 4 of the first 6 miles are straight uphill and it caught up with me at the end. Trying to approach it like an ultra this year, but I've never done an ultra so that's a bit of a challenge. I usually just use gels/gu during marathons but might need something more substantive for this one. I can only handle so much gel before my stomach rebels so looking for other options that might work. Thanks.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Hi mate. I'd be keen to see how you go. As I mentioned, I'm doing a trail ultra early next year.

Last year on the trail 22 I did I found I needed to slow, on a (brutal) hill and 'take my time' (not run) and eat a full Hammer bar. It got me through the later parts. I will be aiming to do similar to supplement my gels because, like you and everyone else, trying to stomach fifteen gel packets isn't going to be fun.

Unlike with a marathon, you're likely to be running with liquid on this one too, right?
 

GreenMountain

Member
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Nov 4, 2007
122
Maine
Thanks Syd. I did try a Hammer bar the other day and it was pretty good, though not sure how I would do eating it on the run. There are self-service water stations every 5-10km, but I will be carrying a hand-held water bottle to refill. I have used Nuun electrolyte tablets in the past successfully, but thinking of trying another similar product called Tailwind that's getting some good reviews. Somebody else suggested peanut butter M&Ms.
 

fiskful of dollars

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Jul 14, 2005
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Charlottesville, VA
Tailwind is what I use. I don't like to run w/ anything in my hands but I use it in transitions and on the bike. It's a pretty good kick in the ass. They have caffeinated and non-caffeinated versions.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
I'm with you dude, I don't get how people can carry stuff in their hands.

Green, how long are you aiming at completing the race in?

I use Gu tablets for my liquid... do you need to carry gear?
 

GreenMountain

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
122
Maine
I'm with you dude, I don't get how people can carry stuff in their hands.

Green, how long are you aiming at completing the race in?

I use Gu tablets for my liquid... do you need to carry gear?
I hate carrying stuff, but you pretty much have to carry hydration on this one and I don't like belts. My water bottle is palm sized and has a wide band. After a while I hardly notice it.

Hoping to finish in under four hours. I just managed it last year, but I trained a lot more for that one. Would not be surprised if I go to 4:30, but anything over that would be disappointing. There is about 1100m of climb on the run, with about half coming in the first 10k, but also a sharp long climb right near the end. I'm not planning to carry gear, though some people did bring small packs last year with additional food, first aid supplies, etc. The race starts at 8:30 in the morning so if I need a headlamp or survival gear than something already went very wrong.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Ours is a bit different - we're required to carry jackets, first aid, food and 2litres of water, so everyone ends up with a trail pack - some use bladders and others pouches and headlamps because it starts at 4am.

That would be a pretty great time. Very keen to see how you go!
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,096
Anyone ever have an achilles blister? I've had them elsewhere before and simply managed them with tape & padding, but this one is different. I let the guy at the running shop talk me into a pair of shoes a half-size bigger than my normal on Saturday ("these shoes run a little small!"); ran 7 miles with them on Sunday with very low-cut socks, which I do all the time, but this time the top edge of the back of the shoe rubbing against the achilles with nothing in between formed a blister. Took Monday off and then wrapped it up for 6 miles yesterday which I competed with no problem, but this morning I could barely walk on it, every step I take just stretches the blister out. Seems weird that it's a slightly bigger shoe (and not smaller) that caused this to happen. Nothing I can do but wait out at this point, frustrating because I've been ramping things up the past coupe of weeks with good results. Wondering what the chances are of the store (Rhode Runner) giving me a refund?
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
I did once, from wearing too-low socks. And this was about 2 weeks before a marathon, to boot.

I used those adhesive blister pads that you can get at Walgreens or wherever. Worked like a charm. They stretch a bit and give maybe 2 mm of padding, so you don't even know they are there.
 

GreenMountain

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
122
Maine
The store should give you a refund or at least let you change for another shoe. It's one of the benefits of buying in a store vs the online discount sites. I don't usually get blisters, but low cut socks can be a problem that way.
 

GreenMountain

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
122
Maine
Ours is a bit different - we're required to carry jackets, first aid, food and 2litres of water, so everyone ends up with a trail pack - some use bladders and others pouches and headlamps because it starts at 4am.

That would be a pretty great time. Very keen to see how you go!
Just realized I never followed up with my race result. Short version is that the Tailwind energy drink is great. Much easier to deal with than Gatorade and I didn't need to take gels or any other food/fuel.

Race conditions were pretty rough. The forecast was calling for heavy rain and temps around 40 (4-5C). Most of the rain came through overnight so the weather wasn't too bad, but the trails were very muddy and covered in wet leaves. I ended up at 4:08, which was slower than last year, but I was pretty happy with that given the conditions and the fact that I re-injured my right hip on the first major downhill and jammed an ankle pretty badly in the last few miles. Still good enough for 3rd overall! The only issue I had with the Tailwind powder was getting the right amount into my water bottle at the refueling stations. I pre-packaged the doses based on the number of aid stations on the course and the size of my water bottle, which worked out pretty well. The major challenge was having enough dexterity to dump the powder in and re-fill when my hands were pretty much numb. A hydration pack would have solved that problem, but I've never found one I was comfortable wearing for a long time. Race stats: 26.2 miles (42km), 4500 feet of climb (1400m).
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
For injury prevention reasons mainly but efficiency as well, I'm trying to get my cadence tempo up and have been running to a metronome.

It's oddly... Mesmorising.