September callups (Travis, Swihart, Elias, Maddox, LIN, Marrero, Velazquez)
- Thread starter soxhop411
- Start date
- Status
I wonder if Brentz toe tap is organization approved? Was there an article about that? I could see John Farrell saying, "Yeah, but a major league pitcher will exploit that toe tap, his AAA success is a mirage (think of that in the voice of the old scout in MoneyBall)."
Pre-toe-tap, Bryce Brentz had 52 PA against lefties in the major leagues and hit 327 / 365 / 449.
It is going to piss me off if he doesn't get starts and pinch hit against lefties for the rest of the month.
Pre-toe-tap, Bryce Brentz had 52 PA against lefties in the major leagues and hit 327 / 365 / 449.
It is going to piss me off if he doesn't get starts and pinch hit against lefties for the rest of the month.
He won't even be with the team...
I honestly don't know what to say. Thid seems... illogical.
Is keeping Henry Owens really keeping us from trying to improve the team?
I honestly don't know what to say. Thid seems... illogical.
Is keeping Henry Owens really keeping us from trying to improve the team?
This really irritates me. He earned a spot and is likely better than guys on the current roster. I don't understand this at all.
It makes very very little sense. There are plenty of people on the 40 man who could be let go.
He's potential to improve the team is far to great to not even give him a shot.
If the team believed that, then they would. It seems pretty clear that, for whatever reason, the talent evaluators don't believe in his potential to improve the team.
Brentz no call-up? what a head scratcher.
Evidently, home runs are overrated.
We're all about scoring on wild pitches.
did Brentz slump the last month?
http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/08/john_farrell_on_red_sox_triple.html
Evidently, home runs are overrated.
We're all about scoring on wild pitches.
did Brentz slump the last month?
http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/08/john_farrell_on_red_sox_triple.html
Last edited:
Here's the 40-man. Who would folks here release for a month of Brentz?
Owens? Elias? I can't come up with a position player I'd want to release -- maybe Marrero?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2017-roster.shtml
Why should he be any different than literally everyone on the ML roster?
How about one of the end-of-the-roster relievers? Martin, Taylor, Boyer, Elias? I get that these guys have value - but so does seeing if anyone on the roster can get a hit with RISP.
I agree that either Taylor or Martin would be fine to outright off the roster. Likely Elias, too.
Brentz not getting added is weird, but if Farrell's going to stick with Davis and Young and Holt as backup corner OF, why bother?
Brentz not getting added is weird, but if Farrell's going to stick with Davis and Young and Holt as backup corner OF, why bother?
Holt is useless at this point - can't hit and his versatility with an expanded roster isn't nearly as important.
RHH, that just crushed 31HRs at AAA have been known to be able to lift a few over the monster.
I'd rather release Holt, then not call up Brentz. This team needs power and has none. Why not give him a shot? Makes zero sense.
Sure, I'm not saying he shouldn't get a chance. But he needs someone to pencil him into the lineup to get one.
If that chance won't be forthcoming, why bother making the move.
An end of the roster pitcher obviously makes the most overall sense, but I personally wouldn't lose any sleep if they looked past Chris Young's "depth value" and gave him his walking papers a month early.
Because no GM makes unilateral moves with the active roster, especially when the team's in a pennant race.
The especially makes no sense because he could take PAs away from Ramirez.
Blaine Boyer is a 35 year old middle reliever with a career ERA of 4.20, and K/9 of 5.7 against a BB/9 of 3.1. His picture is next to DFA in the dictionary.
Likewise, Elias hasn't been good or healthy for more than a week at a time since leaving Seattle. Trade him back there. They're scraping the bottom for pitchers. You may get a lottery ticket who doesn't need to be on the 40 man.
Kyle Martin is clearly not as good as Taylor or Workman or Barnes. Behind him in AA is Cosart. Another easy decision.
The message here is the organization doesn't think the toe-tap will translate to the majors. That's disappointing whether there are right (he's still a marginal major leaguer) or wrong (someone else will benefit).
Blaine Boyer is a 35 year old middle reliever with a career ERA of 4.20, and K/9 of 5.7 against a BB/9 of 3.1. His picture is next to DFA in the dictionary.
Likewise, Elias hasn't been good or healthy for more than a week at a time since leaving Seattle. Trade him back there. They're scraping the bottom for pitchers. You may get a lottery ticket who doesn't need to be on the 40 man.
Kyle Martin is clearly not as good as Taylor or Workman or Barnes. Behind him in AA is Cosart. Another easy decision.
The message here is the organization doesn't think the toe-tap will translate to the majors. That's disappointing whether there are right (he's still a marginal major leaguer) or wrong (someone else will benefit).
This is spot-on. His WHIP is 1.628. There is no way he will be on the team next year. There is no way he should see any high-leverage spots the rest of the way.
Release him and call up Brentz.
Brentz will be a minor league FA after this season, yes? I'm not entirely familiar with the rules there, but he's been in the minors for seven years, and I think that qualifies.
I have no inside knowledge or special insight, but I'm hopeful that Brentz will be in Boston in 2018. I think part of the dynamic is that cutting Young-type players in October would make it tough to sign similar players in the future. Of course, it's a stretch to say that Kyle Martin, for example, falls in the same category as Young, but perhaps the front office sees things that way.
Yeah, unless they put him on the 40. I think it's pretty lame they aren't giving him a chance either but context does matter. Brentz is 28 and has spent the last 5 (6 if you want to include 2011's 5 PA) years in AAA and had struggled to put anything together until now. Every minor league team seems to have has that one older guy in AAA who lights it up. Chances are Brentz is just the next Kung Fu Izzy or Julio Zuleta and not the next Brandon Moss. He's really not all that different than
That, and there's also the chance that DD is lying and we'll see Brentz up in a week. He lied about Devers.
Someone also asked if Brentz finished the year cold, and he did. SSS and all, but in his last 40 PA, he hit .158/.200/.263. I doubt the Redsox put much weight into 40 PA though. SInce adding the toe tap, in a sample size is 377 PA (including those last 40), his slash line was .304/.369/.605 on a .326 BAbip and a 9.2% BB rate/21.0% K rate.
For the entire year (which includes pre toe tap), he was .279/.380/.577 in 121 PA vs L, and .269/.319/.514 in 373 PA vs R. If you break out his production by month, we may see why DD isn't bothering to call him up.
April: .607 OPS 76 PA
May: .794, 72 PA
June: 1.161, 114 PA
July: .844, 100 PA
August: .822, 114 PA
Sept: .748, 18 PA.
He had an amazing stretch from 5/24-7/2 where he slashed .376/.458/.780, .389 BAbip with 19bb/24k, 11 doubles, 1 triple and 14 HRs in 154 PA. From that point on, he hit .258/.308/.488, .291 BAbip, 15bb/55k, 9 doubles, 13 HRs in 224 PA. He was still hitting for power (Can't expect him to ISO over .400 and .230 is pretty good) but was walking less than half the time while striking out 50% more often than his hot streak. For reference, Barfield hit .293/.368/.589 for the season in 399 PA. Granted Portland isn't Pawtucket but the difference isn't that great and it's probably even less for guys as old as Brentz and Barfield. Barfield also had 2 different stretches, one in which he hit 9 HRs in 13 games in July and another where he ended the year hitting 5 HRs in 5 games. From June 29th on, he slashed .301/.390/.644 on a .306 BAbip with 27bb/57k, 12 doubles and 23 HRs in 272 PA.
Still, I'd like to see Brentz get a chance. At the very least, he should provide some power against lefties. Barfield might be able to as well, for that matter. .293/.398/.747 in 88 PA vs L with 12bb/8k, 4 doubles and 10 HRs. Compare that to his line vs righties, .293/.360/.545 in 311 PA with 22bb/82k, 17 doubles and 18 HRs. The slash lines are great against both but Barfield arrived at those slash lines in a completely different fashion.
It's a team that can't hit homers and can't hit lefties... He's literally exactly what they need if there is even the possibility he translates to the big league level.
Maybe, but we are talking about the last month in a 2 year deal that paid him out $13m, and it's not like he'd be left going into FA scrambling for a starting gig.
Plus Brentz is at worst a potential league min salary replacement for Chris Young next year, who we likely have zero interest in resigning. You at least take a look there before going into the winter and bringing in another (probably more costly at that, for those still praying DD finds a reasonable path that allows us to stay under the LT) FA. That has more potential value, however remote the chances, then anything Blaine Boyer is bringing to the table atm.
The Brentz thing is legitimately infuriating. He's not a prospect and he isn't going to be some great major leaguer, but he has power and kills lefties. "Doesn't fit the need" is insane. Either Plymp's right about the toe-tap, which would be ridiculous, or it's a roster issue, which is also ridiculous.
I'm repeating what others have said above but there's not a real good reason to skip that call-up. That "doesn't fit the need" reasoning makes it particularly annoying.
I'm repeating what others have said above but there's not a real good reason to skip that call-up. That "doesn't fit the need" reasoning makes it particularly annoying.
Maybe their scouts don't think his hitting is going to translate. Can't think of any other reason.
That is possible--and you're probably right, which is to Plymp's toe-tap point--but at this stage, what is the opportunity cost to finding out? Taking some ABs from Chris Young? Clubhouse space?
They think the crap arms at the back of the pen that we want to cut would be more useful in blowout situations to keep our other relievers better rested this month? Concerns about the 40 man this fall that I frankly don't know enough about to discuss?
That's not entirely true. This is his best season in AAA, but he had "full" season OPSs there of .788 and .806 in 2013 and 2014, with a combined 29 HRs in 616 PA. His issue has really been health. Games played over the previous 4 seasons are 88, 72, 59, and 91. Maybe the toe tap has been the reason for improvement or maybe he's back to full health, maybe a little of both. It's possible (maybe even probable) this is his high water mark, but he's still a useful piece at the 2013-2014 level. It's not like he's come out of nowhere at 28, though. He was a decent prospect until he couldn't stop getting hurt.
I just don't think this is that complicated. The organization's talent evaluators don't think that his AAA success will translate to the Major Leagues. They aren't just going to come out and say this so they use bullshit phrases like "didn't fit the need" or "no 40 man roster spot available." From our vantage point, this is frustrating, because it feels like he might be able to help. But the team clearly disagrees. There is no way in hell they wouldn't set Kyle Martin or Blaine Boyer free if they really thought Brentz could help the team.
DD's clairvoyance in having all the AAAA pitchers up, in lieu of Brentz, for the pen's 13 innings of shutout ball last night makes me a little uncomfortable. How did he know that was going to happen? I'd much rather get a look at Brentz at the expense of Maddox/Hembree/Boyer. But at least for one night it was useful having them all around.
The pen went 13IP, 6h, 15k, 3bb, 0R.
What is there to complain about pitching or a pitcher taking a roster spot instead of Bryce Brentz? Those guys won that game (which could turn out decisive in a close division).
I get that you could just burn away someone like Boyer and then give the chance to Brentz to see where he takes you. If he fails and you need a pitcher, you could pick up someone else and you probably aren´t much worse than Boyer. But I don´t know if you just do that just like that or drag it out as long as possible. I don´t know much about any personality, but maybe someone is a nice person or a good character guy and you try to hold on to someone, instead of looking for a small chance for success (in a probably-bench-role)?
What is there to complain about pitching or a pitcher taking a roster spot instead of Bryce Brentz? Those guys won that game (which could turn out decisive in a close division).
I get that you could just burn away someone like Boyer and then give the chance to Brentz to see where he takes you. If he fails and you need a pitcher, you could pick up someone else and you probably aren´t much worse than Boyer. But I don´t know if you just do that just like that or drag it out as long as possible. I don´t know much about any personality, but maybe someone is a nice person or a good character guy and you try to hold on to someone, instead of looking for a small chance for success (in a probably-bench-role)?
Here's the thing that bugs me about the moaning over not calling up Brentz...what would his role be? Presumably, as a RHH, he's going to be limited to starts against LHP, right (either at DH or in the OF)? How many more such starts are left in the last 23 games?
Looks like the Sox will avoid Blake Snell this weekend against Tampa, so no lefty starters there. They'll probably see Sean Manaea when Oakland comes in, but that's it. They will probably see Snell in St. Pete the following weekend. The Reds don't have a lefty in their rotation presently. Maybe they catch Happ or Anderson in their last series against Toronto, and maybe they see Keuchel the final weekend against the Astros (at which point they may be resting him).
That's three and maybe as many as five games left against LH starters (and sure, a couple more had he been called up on Friday). Would that be worth cutting someone else to make roster room?
Looks like the Sox will avoid Blake Snell this weekend against Tampa, so no lefty starters there. They'll probably see Sean Manaea when Oakland comes in, but that's it. They will probably see Snell in St. Pete the following weekend. The Reds don't have a lefty in their rotation presently. Maybe they catch Happ or Anderson in their last series against Toronto, and maybe they see Keuchel the final weekend against the Astros (at which point they may be resting him).
That's three and maybe as many as five games left against LH starters (and sure, a couple more had he been called up on Friday). Would that be worth cutting someone else to make roster room?
His role would have been to replace Chris Young, who's batting .183 since the All-Star Break (which counts his pinch hit last night) and has been slashing .189/.305/.269 against lefties for the entire season.
Right. And he'd get, what, 20-25 ABs over the next three weeks? Seems he'd have a minor impact at best, and that's assuming his success this year would carry over against big league pitching while not playing everyday.
I'm not saying I'm glad he wasn't called up. I'm just saying that his not being called up isn't worth the amount of kvetching that has come from the decision.
And also includes those PH appearances. So, even though the Sox are only going to face a few more LH starters, there will also be some high leverage ABs against LH relievers. Adding Brentz may or may not help the team win more games the rest of this season. But I think the chances are greater than that of using 11 relievers in a game. The guys at the back end of the September bullpen are the definition of fungible. Brentz offers the possibility of a real (though marginal) upgrade.
And as it's been discussed some, a Brentz-Nunez combination in 2018 makes sense to replace the current Young-Holt tandem. Doesn't it make sense to at least get a look at whether Brentz's new mechanics translate to the MLB level, if that's the concern?
Couldn't it be as simple as not disrupting team harmony? I have no idea how popular Holt or Young are to other members of the team, but shit canning one of them for Brentz this late in the season could backfire.
I've said it before but I'll say it again. Young's performance against lefties this year to date is likely small sample size noise. He's hitting righties better than his career average, so it's unlikely his fundamental underlying skill level has declined. I have no problem continuing to use Young as a lefty masher, and expect he will resume doing so at his recent late career average rates presently.
In games they are losing 8-1 or winning big -- you have him play late. Have him come up to hit late in games when games are out of reach. If in a few games he's hot-- you play him.
If he is hot you also try him vs righties sometimes.
I hate it they didn't bring up Brentz.
Last edited:
Austin Maddox has very quietly pitched 9 1/3 innings for the Sox, allowing 6 H, 0 runs, 0 walks, with 7 Ks.
I have to agree here. He's been hitting a crapton of IFFBs against LHP and his hard contact rate is way down against them, but he has too much of a track record of destroying LHP for me to believe that this is his new normal. It's possible at 34 he's just cooked, but if that's the case then why would his similarly small sample against RHP be so good?
Brentz should have been called up. Young isn't getting it done vs lefties. If Young's stats are real vs righties then he should have played a bit more and given Mookie a rest. How many games has Mookie rested?
Anyhow, something needs to be done about his poor performance vs lefties. It isn't just bad. It's beyond awful. Bringing up Brentz at least may put Young more on edge - which maybe could help. It's pitiful as to what Young has shown vs lefties. No one can know for certain if he'll break out. I'm not so sure remaining patient and hoping the 34 yo breaks out is an answer. I think he has had enough games to show what he is. Sometimes players have bad years. Why should we think Young is immune? Brentz should have been called up.
Anyhow, something needs to be done about his poor performance vs lefties. It isn't just bad. It's beyond awful. Bringing up Brentz at least may put Young more on edge - which maybe could help. It's pitiful as to what Young has shown vs lefties. No one can know for certain if he'll break out. I'm not so sure remaining patient and hoping the 34 yo breaks out is an answer. I think he has had enough games to show what he is. Sometimes players have bad years. Why should we think Young is immune? Brentz should have been called up.
If we refine that to since his September call-up, he is even more effective: 5.2IP, 2H, 0R, 0BB, 5K. Across 4 appearances, one of which was a two inning contribution to the 19 inning win vs. TOR -- which was a big win.
I would also have liked to see a Brentz call up, but... with Pedroia back, they already have to work in Nunez into the lineup. They called up Travis, and probably want to see him play a bit against major league pitching.
What are the odds that Brentz is better than Young going forward? Young has a fairly solid track record, but, as a bench guy, is up and down as his full season stats are generally a SSS. While CY isn't a great defender, he is probably more trustworthy on D than Brentz.
Brentz really would be a RHH PH power bat only. It would be nice when it came up, but how likely is it to matter? They can already get RHB in at LF (CY), CF (Davis), DH (HR/ST), and 1B (HR/ST) all at once if they want to. In games started by an opposing RHP, they will probably have at least two of those guys, plus either Nunez or whoever he is subbing for, and Vazquez fairly often, available to PH. Not sure I really want Brentz PHing for Benny, Devers, or maybe even Bradley all that often, even against an LHP. Maybe Leon, Holt, Moreland or one of the scrubbier Sept callups, but how often will one of those guys actually be up against an LHP in a spot that matters and when one of HR, Travis, Nunez or Vazquez (or Pedroia if Nunez starts) aren't available to PH?
I agree that Holt seems cooked, at least for this season, and I wouldn't mind not seeing him again this season... but I could see that dumping a guy who has contributed a good deal in recent years and has struggled to get back on the field from concussion etc might seem like a clubhouse negative.
What are the odds that Brentz is better than Young going forward? Young has a fairly solid track record, but, as a bench guy, is up and down as his full season stats are generally a SSS. While CY isn't a great defender, he is probably more trustworthy on D than Brentz.
Brentz really would be a RHH PH power bat only. It would be nice when it came up, but how likely is it to matter? They can already get RHB in at LF (CY), CF (Davis), DH (HR/ST), and 1B (HR/ST) all at once if they want to. In games started by an opposing RHP, they will probably have at least two of those guys, plus either Nunez or whoever he is subbing for, and Vazquez fairly often, available to PH. Not sure I really want Brentz PHing for Benny, Devers, or maybe even Bradley all that often, even against an LHP. Maybe Leon, Holt, Moreland or one of the scrubbier Sept callups, but how often will one of those guys actually be up against an LHP in a spot that matters and when one of HR, Travis, Nunez or Vazquez (or Pedroia if Nunez starts) aren't available to PH?
I agree that Holt seems cooked, at least for this season, and I wouldn't mind not seeing him again this season... but I could see that dumping a guy who has contributed a good deal in recent years and has struggled to get back on the field from concussion etc might seem like a clubhouse negative.
I think there is a good possibility that CY is cooked. You asked what are BB's chances of being better than CY? I think they are "decent." How can there be anything worse this year than bringing up CY vs lefties while BB does pretty well vs lefties? CY in 2014 -- just take a lok at his misery vs lefties that year too. It was .149/290/270. In 2013 he was .209/320/392. CY is not immune to being completely awful vs lefties. He is showing that. Yes BB MIGHT BE better.
As for Travis-- he isn't that good either. His year in Pawtucket was a disappointment while BB's wasn't. Further in blowout games we could have played both. Or pinch hit here or there. Plus see if BB can be useful as a 4th outfielder next year.
All of the outfielders, plus Hanley - plus some pinch hitting - for example for Leon -- can all use a day off. With Hanley - more than one. Need Nunez busy to replace both Pedey and Xander and on occasion Devers. Therefore if BB is the best bat-- and this team's weakness is power/bat-- why not give him a look?
IMO this is just another example of some of the baffling moves made by the Sox. Though they have also made some brilliant ones (Fister/Pomeranz etc).
****Even if BB helps us one more game than Travis, it is one more game we can give players rest. Our Sox team is banged up/ tired. Maybe BB could have given a few games surge of power. Those few games could be vital. A a couple of home runs -- if he can hit-- might be enough to carry victories and allow rest due to the Sox strong pitching staff.
Last edited:
- Status