Screw it ! There's one way to retain our OS dominance...Win 10 is free to anyone running 7 or 8.1, b

[Couperin47]

http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/18/microsoft-will-offer-free-windows-10-upgrades-to-pirates-worldwide/
 
so that's how really concerned MS has been over OS theft...something many of us have been fairly certain of for years...they could always have locked down Windows so pirating wasn't trivially easy.
MS long ago made the decision that most pirate users couldn't/wouldn't purchase at the inflated retail prices so the 'lost sales' were mostly illusory and they'd rather have you using Windows free than letting Linux reach critical mass as a real competitor. Now they have made this position explicit. As the article notes and MS was specifically asked: They are more than happy to have you install and run a pirate copy of 7 or 8 or 8.1 next week and then upgrade to genuine Win 10 when released later this year....

 

[Nick Kaufman]

I think it's more than that. I think they ve effectively decided to give out their OS for free. Why they re doing this, I am not sure. One factor might be that they really really really want to maintain their dominance in the OS market so as to fend off challenges from the mobile sphere. The other is that probably they re thinking more seriously about making money from hardware or business.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

I think it's more than that. I think they ve effectively decided to give out their OS for free. Why they re doing this, I am not sure. 

 
Set your Wayback Machine for May 1990. Windows 3.0 is new, hot, and yours for a $79 upgrade charge if you have an older version. Even if  that older version is Windows 1.04, lying around on a shelf gathering dust. Or even if it's one that came bundled with a Microsoft Mouse two years ago and has never had the shrinkwrap cracked open so it could gather dust.
 
You call the Microsoft 800 number to order the upgrade. They ask if you want the upgrade or the full-priced retail product. "The upgrade," you say, with the dusty diskette (!) in hand.  "Great!" comes the reply. "I know you qualify for the upgrade because you just told me you did."
 
You tell all your friends. They "upgrade", too. Windows 3.0 flies off the presses. OS/2 somehow never gets off the ground. Windows 3.0 becomes an industry standard. Real-mode DOS begins to die a slow death as a development platform.
 
What was your question again?
 
--
Edit: now the price is right

 

[derekson]

Yeah, as HPC said, it's basically a case of history repeating itself. Microsoft is trying to get people to upgrade from old versions and also to get the bad tastes of Vista and Windows 8 out of people's heads. They're betting that if they can get people using Windows 10, they'll be able to get them to stay with Windows devices long term instead of using Android or iOS tablets or Chromebooks or Macs or anything else to replace their Windows devices. It's an attempt to get people locked into the MS ecosystem by putting their best foot forward with what they're hoping is their most compelling Windows in years.
 
My impression is that they'll go back to charging for upgrades with Windows 11 (or whatever they decide to call the next version after 10). They're just using the Windows 10 launch as a chance to press the reset button and get Windows 10 out there to as many people as possible to show people MS is still relevant, and they're betting that the product will be good enough to get people to buy new versions of Windows in the future.

 

[Couperin47]

Actually, the current strategy is that Win 10 may be the 'last' version: continuous upgrades, attempts to push everyone towards a cloud-centric model. Those will fail as a solution for many, but, in fact, everyone else basically gives away their OS, MS will be content with income from sales to computer makers. Their revenue model going forward doesn't contemplate serious upgrade OS income, but hopes for cloud subscription revenue in the future. They don't seem to have worked out anything resembling a coherent strategy for the Enterprise where 'continuous upgrade' is going to go over like a plague-riddled lead dirigible

 

[Harry Hooper]

Best to read the fine print:
 
Ed Bott:
 

the free upgrade doesn't apply to Enterprise editions of Windows. Those upgrades are available only through volume licensing programs, and only VL customers who pay for the Software Assurance benefit will get the Windows 10 upgrade. Fair enough.
 
But I noticed something odd in the rest of that paragraph. Not once, but twice, it refers to "the consumer free upgrade offer." That word consumer, which was nowhere to be found in the January announcement, has a very specific meaning when it refers to Microsoft's desktop operating systems. Consumer editions, such as Windows 7 Home Premium, are distinct from business editions, which cost more and have the word Professional, Pro, Business, or Enterprise as part of the name.
 

 

[Couperin47]

Best to read the fine print:
 
Ed Bott:
 

 
It's not that sinister, the excluded versions are Enterprise versions and not all that easily identified by name, it's how they are sold and distributed. The Pro and even Ultimate versions are absolutely offered in consumer versions and would be covered under the amnesty, It's Enterprise versions that are sold and have product keys issued in bulk by Microsoft that are going to be excluded. This makes sense in that everyone running such versions legitimately either purchased directly from MS or the few master distributors who are authorized to make such sales.
 
And yes, it's just sad that MS cannot bring themselves to finally just cut through the Gordian Knot of SKUs and versions they have insisted on maintaining all these years....

 

[Harry Hooper]

Given what we know so far, you're being far too definitive as even MSFT may not have fully made a decision yet.
 
Secondly, Ultimate is a consumer version, nuf ced. Enterprise with the ongoing SA agreements is obviously in its own category.
 
Where the rubber will meet the road is in the Pro space. I suspect there is pressure within MSFT and outside (system builders such as HP) to only let full retail versions of Pro get the free full upgrade. The OEM versions of Pro might end up being the battleground.

 

[Couperin47]

Given what we know so far, you're being far too definitive as even MSFT may not have fully made a decision yet.
 
Secondly, Ultimate is a consumer version, nuf ced. Enterprise with the ongoing SA agreements is obviously in its own category.
 
Where the rubber will meet the road is in the Pro space. I suspect there is pressure within MSFT and outside (system builders such as HP) to only let full retail versions of Pro get the free full upgrade. The OEM versions of Pro might end up being the battleground.

 
Probably, and those who have been running a cracked version utilizing a hacked Enterprise key will simply have to change the key to one of the hacked retail keys....there is going to be nothing easier than making yourself non-genuine .... :q:

 

[Marceline]

Update from MS:
"With Windows 10, although non-Genuine PCs may be able to upgrade to Windows 10, the upgrade will not change the genuine state of the license... If a device was considered non-genuine or mislicensed prior to the upgrade, that device will continue to be considered non-genuine or mislicensed after the upgrade."
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/windows-10-will-be-a-free-upgrade-for-genuine-and-non-genuine-users/

 

[Couperin47]

Update from MS:
"With Windows 10, although non-Genuine PCs may be able to upgrade to Windows 10, the upgrade will not change the genuine state of the license... If a device was considered non-genuine or mislicensed prior to the upgrade, that device will continue to be considered non-genuine or mislicensed after the upgrade."
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/windows-10-will-be-a-free-upgrade-for-genuine-and-non-genuine-users/

 
Wow, MS has reached the point where the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing...wonder just how many more 'clarifications' we are going to get before they actually decide wtf they want to do.....

 

[Couperin47]

MS has finally announced that, no, they are not offering Win 10 free to anyone but those with genuine copies of 7, 8,  and 8.1. There will be 'attractive offers' to those detected to be using an unauthorized copy....they continue to provide zero pricing information on Win 10 or what happens after it stops being free.
 
http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/05/15/genuine-windows-and-windows-10/
 
Of course, as more and more information about the features and massively incomplete nature of Win 10 when it initially ships have been revealed...this becomes significantly less important.

 

[Harry Hooper]

For DIY builders, looks like $110 for Windows 10 Home version and $150 for Windows 10 Professional.
 
Bott

 

[Couperin47]

For DIY builders, looks like $110 for Windows 10 Home version and $150 for Windows 10 Professional.
 
Bott

 
Note that requirements include: 'A Microsoft account and Internet access'. Until we have complete information and hacks to prevent or limit cloud interaction, anyone even slightly concerned with their privacy has to be crazy to migrate to this.

 

[ThePrideofShiner]

An icon showed up on my computer today asking if I want to "reserve my Windows 10 upgrade." 
 
I have Windows 7 right now and it is fine for what I use my computer for. So, should I upgrade? 

 

[Couperin47]

An icon showed up on my computer today asking if I want to "reserve my Windows 10 upgrade." 
 
I have Windows 7 right now and it is fine for what I use my computer for. So, should I upgrade? 

 
Wait and see.  Despite the wide distribution of the development versions, actual distribution always reveals new issues...and the upgrade will be free anytime during the first year. What we already know: while the 'Metro' interface has been further deprecated, the returning Start menu looks suspiciously like a Metro blocky thing (Classic Shell already fully supports Win 10 for those who want what MS simply and stubbornly refuses to get right). It is going to be difficult if not impossible to fully register 10 without setting up a Microsoft account and they will want/ask for a credit card too because the MS store is coming, and after that, a la Apple, we can expect a closed environment where, if it's not in their store it won't install.  Cortina, their version of Siri, is heavily baked in...think the return of Clippy but now it speaks and is 100% more intrusive...and Cortina plus the attempt to force much of what you do into the cloud means MS is monitoring and tracking every last single keystroke or swipe you perform. Finally, unless you select the Business/Enterprise model for updates, then all updates happen continuously and without your control. If you select the Business model, then, basically, they happen like they have in the past...which is to say what any rational person would want.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

 the MS store is coming, and after that, a la Apple, we can expect a closed environment where, if it's not in their store it won't install. 

 
This isn't true for the Mac today, and I very much doubt it will be true for Windows tomorrow. Or even the day after that.

 

[jercra]

 
Wait and see.  Despite the wide distribution of the development versions, actual distribution always reveals new issues...and the upgrade will be free anytime during the first year. What we already know: while the 'Metro' interface has been further deprecated, the returning Start menu looks suspiciously like a Metro blocky thing (Classic Shell already fully supports Win 10 for those who want what MS simply and stubbornly refuses to get right). It is going to be difficult if not impossible to fully register 10 without setting up a Microsoft account and they will want/ask for a credit card too because the MS store is coming, and after that, a la Apple, we can expect a closed environment where, if it's not in their store it won't install.  Cortina, their version of Siri, is heavily baked in...think the return of Clippy but now it speaks and is 100% more intrusive...and Cortina plus the attempt to force much of what you do into the cloud means MS is monitoring and tracking every last single keystroke or swipe you perform. Finally, unless you select the Business/Enterprise model for updates, then all updates happen continuously and without your control. If you select the Business model, then, basically, they happen like they have in the past...which is to say what any rational person would want.

Have you actually used Win10?  I've been using it as my DD for the past week and a half.  It's beta and has some issues, mostly compatibility with old SW, but several of the things you say in the post are off.  Cortana is totally opt in.  So was any cloud integration at all.  No credit card was requested for any part of the install or for anything I've done since.  There are lots of controls on how updates are handled, more than I have found on 8.1.  The Start Menu, while still not mimicking the look and feel from 10 years ago, is MUCH better than 8.1.  It's a simple click to list all of your apps alphabetically though I've never used it since just typing what you want in the integrated search box by the start bar is so much easier.  Of course, if you want the old UI you can just install classic shell.

 

[Couperin47]

Have you actually used Win10?  I've been using it as my DD for the past week and a half.  It's beta and has some issues, mostly compatibility with old SW, but several of the things you say in the post are off.  Cortana is totally opt in.  So was any cloud integration at all.  No credit card was requested for any part of the install or for anything I've done since.  There are lots of controls on how updates are handled, more than I have found on 8.1.  The Start Menu, while still not mimicking the look and feel from 10 years ago, is MUCH better than 8.1.  It's a simple click to list all of your apps alphabetically though I've never used it since just typing what you want in the integrated search box by the start bar is so much easier.  Of course, if you want the old UI you can just install classic shell.

 
Everything til now was for Beta, if what's released on July 29 shows no meaningful changes and with the explicit validation set in place, we will see. I never suggested all of these things would be mandatory, I fully expect there will be some way to set/hack back actual control...for now. MS is playing the long con as they 'transition you'.

 

[AlNipper49]

Actually, the current strategy is that Win 10 may be the 'last' version: continuous upgrades, attempts to push everyone towards a cloud-centric model. Those will fail as a solution for many, but, in fact, everyone else basically gives away their OS, MS will be content with income from sales to computer makers. Their revenue model going forward doesn't contemplate serious upgrade OS income, but hopes for cloud subscription revenue in the future. They don't seem to have worked out anything resembling a coherent strategy for the Enterprise where 'continuous upgrade' is going to go over like a plague-riddled lead dirigible

 
That's putting it nicely

 

[NortheasternPJ]

 
This isn't true for the Mac today, and I very much doubt it will be true for Windows tomorrow. Or even the day after that.

 
I agree, I'm not sure why Couperin would ever expect that. The requirement to have organizations sign all apps and provide Microsoft with a cert to verify that is insane. As you said, Apple doesn't require that now on a Mac (OS X yes). Apple does provide the ability to do Internal App Distribution etc. through MDM though which is not scalable. Even if it was through SCCM only or they started partnering with third parties it'd be insanity. 
 
Unless Microsoft wanted to completely destroy their main strong hold (businesses) they'd never enforce that approach.

 

[Couperin47]

Here's what we , sorta know, as of today:
 
If upgrading from 7 or 8.1 (you cannot upgrade from 8 without first upgrading to 8.1):
 
Big issues:

• If you have Windows 7 Home Premium, Windows 7 Professional, Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows 8 Pro with Media Center, or Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center and you install Windows 10, Windows Media Center will be removed.
• Watching DVDs requires separate playback software
• Windows 7 desktop gadgets will be removed as part of installing Windows 10.
• Windows 10 Home users will have updates from Windows Update automatically available. Windows 10 Pro and Windows 10 Enterprise users will have the ability to defer updates.
• Solitaire, Minesweeper, and Hearts Games that come pre-installed on Windows 7 will be removed as part of installing the Windows 10 upgrade. Microsoft has released our version of Solitaire and Minesweeper called the “Microsoft Solitaire Collection” and “Microsoft Minesweeper.”
• If you have a USB floppy drive, you will need to download the latest driver from Windows Update or from the manufacturer's website.
• If you have Windows Live Essentials installed on your system, the OneDrive application is removed and replaced with the inbox version of OneDrive.

 
Unless you currently have Pro or Ultimate versions of 7 or 8.1 (Enterprise versions are not eligible for free update), you're getting updated to 10 Home and, as noted above, while it's still not totally clear, there appears to be no mechanism in that version to control or prevent immediate updates and patches as issued by MS.  Please note that retail versions of 10, it appears will be $99 for Home and $149 for Pro (list for both are higher, Newegg inadvertently leaked these prices last week) . Upgrade from Home to Pro will list for $99. With 7 and 8 many/most wanted Pro for the Windows Media Center, which you will note, is now gone. You may need to get Pro just to gain back control over the update process. This is still unclear, the latest release of Home has no option to defer updates or manual control and, reportedly, the switch to do that is missing in the registry, so it doesn't look good.
 
Media Player Classic and VLC will probably be the most popular replacements for DVD media player.
 
The complete lack of inbuilt support for any form of floppy means it's really time to copy those to some rather more current form of media.

 

[Marceline]

I fail to see how anything relating to support of floppy disks is a big issue. I didn't even know usb floppy drives were a thing. Why would anyone use this?

I don't really see any of these things as being much of a concern aside from not being able to control updates (if that's true). Losing minesweeper, really? Having to download media player classic which is much better than Windows Media Player anyway...

 

[Couperin47]

Just days away from release, Microsoft 'sorta' provides a cure for their worst, quite deliberate, mistake with 10.  As previously reported, unless you are upgrading from 7 or 8.1 Pro or Ultimate versions, you're going to get Win 10 Home which had no mechanism whatever to allow you to prevent or control immediate upgrades/updates/patches from Microsoft whenever you connect to the Net. Since no sane IT human in any enterprise environment would ever accept such nonsense, the Pro version of 10 retains the current sensible controls that allow you allow for download without install and blocking of any updates.
 
An MS update to an nVidia driver is already causing serious grief (you don't need no stinking video) and so MS today released an optional tool that gives you back control... in the most annoying manner possible:
 
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-releases-tool-to-hide-or-block-unwanted-windows-10-updates/
 
Note: you can block and hide specific updates.  But, but how can I know what to block ? You can't. What this tool allows is...after MS has uncontrollably downloaded and installed shit onto your computer and has completely fucked you up, and once you have either rolled back to before the offending update, or otherwise on some working computer have figured out which KB has screwed you. Then you can either rollback or try to uninstall the crap and then, MS will grudgingly allow you to blacklist/hide that update to prevent it being reinstalled and screwing you again.
 
and Oh, as the ZD report notes, so far they have not seen ANY version of Win 10 update that does not default to turning off the System Restore feature that allows you the option to roll back.
 
Perhaps we will see a hack to restore real control of the updating process, meanwhile MS's sheer contempt for their users in this matter is pretty breathtaking. BTW, afaik the cheapest versions of Win 10 Pro are going to run $149 unless you currently own 7 or 8.1 Pro or Ultimate.

 

[edoug]

Thanks Couper, How long are you going to wait to install it? Until your post about the automatic updates there was a temptation to do it soon but now that's out the window.

 

[SoxFanInCali]

I've got an older laptop and a virtual machine that I'm going to update right away to test-drive it, but I wouldn't go anywhere near this for my primary machine for at least a month or 2.

 

[edoug]

Yeah, that's the way to go but I have one pc and android phone and tablet. I will be very interested in how it works out for you and other early adopters.I like 8.1. I even liked 8. So no real hurry other than to get to play around with it.

 

[Couperin47]

I'd strongly suggest a good image copy prior to upgrading, there is NO other way back.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

I was just checking if I had SP1 installed, and stumbled across this gem: how the hell do they calculate this shit?
 

 
 

 

[saintnick912]

It's some combo of your CPU, memory, I/O (hard drive), and video card performance, mashed up into a number.  Some programs will degrade based on lower scores.
 
Anyone install 10 yet?  If it's up on my laptop when I get home I may do it since I don't have anything super important on there., probably hold off on my desktop.

 

[Couperin47]

I was just checking if I had SP1 installed, and stumbled across this gem: how the hell do they calculate this shit?
 

 
 

 
The overall rating includes video processing, storage amounts and speed, in short more than just cpu power and available memory and a .3 differential is meaningless in what's already an arbitrary scale, though you'd expect an i7 with 4x the memory to score higher... Notice that you've never seen any computer review anywhere that mentions the Windows Experience Index....now you know why.

 

[Max Power]

They dropped the score on Windows 8 since it never really worked the way they intended.
 
I've been using the previews of 10 for a few months on a test computer and it's really good, but I'm holding off on upgrading my main one. There are still some bugs where the task switcher wouldn't pop up, or thumbnails disappear, or other little things that could get annoying. There's a 1GB patch out today, so maybe some of those bugs have already been squashed, but I'll give it a couple weeks before jumping in.

 

[zenter]

 
The overall rating includes video processing, storage amounts and speed, in short more than just cpu power and available memory and a .3 differential is meaningless in what's already an arbitrary scale, though you'd expect an i7 with 4x the memory to score higher... Notice that you've never seen any computer review anywhere that mentions the Windows Experience Index....now you know why.

 
The overall score is based on lowest score out of the 3-4 factors. Based on the screens, it looks like the i5 system has discrete graphics and RAM, while the i7 is sharing RAM with onboard graphics.
 
I'm guessing the lowest score on the i5 is coming from the CPU, while the bottleneck on the i7 is definitely the graphics.
 
EDIT: I mean, yes, it's stupid and I'm glad they dropped it, but it was handy to determine performance bottlenecks at a high level. Like "Oh, I guess I need to upgrade my RAM."

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Yeah, I should note I am running VMWare on a new Macbook Pro. I was just unsure of why the score was lower. Now I understand...somewhat.

 

[jercra]

It's some combo of your CPU, memory, I/O (hard drive), and video card performance, mashed up into a number.  Some programs will degrade based on lower scores.
 
Anyone install 10 yet?  If it's up on my laptop when I get home I may do it since I don't have anything super important on there., probably hold off on my desktop.

I've been running it as my DD for a couple of months now.  It's my favorite windows version yet but I liked Windows 8 too.  That being said, I won't put it on my wife's computer for a while.  The changes from 8.1 are significant.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Click on the blue Windows Experience Index, it shows the subscores. the score is basically the lowest subscore and in your case it's probably the graphics.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Oh, yeah, everything is 7.2 or above, but apparently graphics and gaming graphics are weighted pretty heavily (nearly 100%).

 

[soxhop411]

Good one Microsoft

 

[zenter]

Yeah, I should note I am running VMWare on a new Macbook Pro. I was just unsure of why the score was lower. Now I understand...somewhat.

 
Ah, yeah, that adds another bottleneck. In a VM, all scores are going to be depressed, especially if you only commit a limited number of resources to that machine.
 
WEI is like a super-stripped-down Winbench. It benchmarks the CPU, GPU, RAM, and I/O, then it looks up the raw scores against an online DB of what constitutes a "10". That way, it's a moving score - a "7" yesterday is a "6" today and a "5" tomorrow, as hardware improves.
 

Oh, yeah, everything is 7.2 or above, but apparently graphics and gaming graphics are weighted pretty heavily (nearly 100%).

 
Not just weighted heavily. It literally takes the lowest score and says "this is your experience".

 

[RingoOSU]

Good one Microsoft

If you've ever read Stephen King's Revival, this is really spooky.

 

[Couperin47]

Good one Microsoft

 
The upgrade process will tell you it is making a backup so you can roll back to your prior OS (and that feature will automatically erase that backup and eliminate your ability to 'go back' after 30 days), but don't bank on that being an option when you get something like the above screen: Make an image of your boot drive separately before hand: both 7 and 8.1 have a utility to do this if you don't have anything else better/faster.

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

The install on my laptop has been stuck at 49% for a couple hours now...

 

[SoxFanInCali]

The upgrade went smooth on my virtual machine and shows as activated.
 
Once the machine is activated it is supposed to be OK to wipe the machine, reinstall a fresh copy of the OS, and activate it.  I'm going to test that out next, as I would rather run a clean install rather than an upgraded one.

 

[saintnick912]

Upgrade went smoothly on my laptop, but sleep/wake had issues and then it took a while to restart (thanks automatic updates).
 
My desktop on the other hand has run into the fun Nvidia multi-monitor situation.  Waiting for it to restart now.

 

[Harry Hooper]

I'd strongly suggest a good image copy prior to upgrading, there is NO other way back.

 
 
Yes, and you can get a free usable copy of Macrium Reflect here to make that image onto DVDs or an external hard drive.

 

[Couperin47]

 
 
Yes, and you can get a free usable copy of Macrium Reflect here to make that image onto DVDs or an external hard drive.

It's excellent and one of the fastest options

 

[saintnick912]

Eventually booted into low-res mode, uninstalled old Nvidia drivers, restarted again with generic drivers going, then got the new Nvidia ones going.  I had to turn on a couple of other network performance options that reverted (jumbo frames especially, I work with big files off a network server) but now it's all up to speed.  Honestly aside from the window frames looking a bit different my experience won't change too much in the short term.

 

[Bigpupp]

I didn't mean to install today. I clicked on the windows symbol to download first and put it off but it only let me wait 3 days, so I thought I might as well do it today. Glad I did. It's got a lot of things going for it and I've had absolutely no issues at all. 

 

[SoxFanInCali]

The upgrade went smooth on my virtual machine and shows as activated.
 
Once the machine is activated it is supposed to be OK to wipe the machine, reinstall a fresh copy of the OS, and activate it.  I'm going to test that out next, as I would rather run a clean install rather than an upgraded one.

I can confirm this works. I made a bootable USB installer, booted to it, wiped the existing partitions, and did a fresh install. As soon as I connected to the internet the machine showed as activated. I've got considerably more free space now without the old Windows 7 files.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

For how long can we upgrade to 10 for free?