Schefter: Patricia to become new Lions HC

bsj

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I pretty much assumed this at the beginning and everyone else told me it wasn't a fit.

Giants and Mara have always been defense first. They want a D guy. This is the best D guy on the market.

Plus this leak allows for them to soft pedal the process until the Patriots season is over in the crazy unlikely chance that any of this Belichick to giants smoke actually has a scintilla of merit
 

tims4wins

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Doesn't mean he's not the top choice in Detroit too though. I'd prefer that job, I think. Stable ownership, good QB, can retain the OC. I wouldn't want to deal with the NY media or the OBJ circus.
 

steveluck7

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Doesn't mean he's not the top choice in Detroit too though. I'd prefer that job, I think. Stable ownership, good QB, can retain the OC. I wouldn't want to deal with the NY media or the OBJ circus.
Peter King says Patricia prefers the Giants link
In Detroit, I hear Pats defensive coordinator Matt Patricia is the choice over Houston’s defensive boss, Mike Vrabel—but Patricia favors the Giants.
 

Jimbodandy

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Doesn't mean he's not the top choice in Detroit too though. I'd prefer that job, I think. Stable ownership, good QB, can retain the OC. I wouldn't want to deal with the NY media or the OBJ circus.
Word.

Not sure that I would prefer the Detroit job, but the Giants have been a dumpster fire for a few years now. Their "stable ownership" rep doesn't always translate to "well-run organization."
 

bankshot1

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If Matty P is leaning to taking the Giant's HC job, the Eli controversy is ok with him, and presumably Gettleman would take the initial heat if Eli is either dumped or benched for whoever they draft at #2. And Matty P is OK with a rookie QB leading the team.

Could be a tough situation for a rookie HC to deal with, or a great opportunity.

Detroit may be a far more stable situation.
 

Mystic Merlin

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If Matty P is leaning to taking the Giant's HC job, the Eli controversy is ok with him, and presumably Gettleman would take the initial heat if Eli is either dumped or benched for whoever they draft at #2. And Matty P is OK with a rookie QB leading the team.

Could be a tough situation for a rookie HC to deal with, or a great opportunity.

Detroit may be a far more stable situation.
The Giants gig doesn't open up too often, McAdon't aside, so I can understand the allure of a job that prestigious.

From a pure personnel perspective, I'd agree that the Lions are arguably in a better spot because they have a top flight QB for the next 3-5 years and the Giants can't say the same.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Bob Quinn is the Lions GM and Matty P must know him pretty well from his time with the Patriots. So a lot of the decision probably just revolves around how much Patricia likes Quinn and what he thinks of his abilities. I wouldn't necessarily assume that they're buddies - maybe he is lukewarm on Quinn.

IMO, the Giants job is a very good one. Everything went wrong for them this year but they have legitimate talent on defense in the secondary and on the DL (they were second in the league in defensive DVOA in 2016) and you've got many of the ingredients for a good offense, including an elite playmaker, a very promising Engram, and a good QB situation given that you can either keep Eli and trade #2 for a boatload of picks that replenish your talent or you can probably trade Eli for a first or second and then select either Darnold or Rosen if you believe in them. I think I actually like that QB situation better than just being locked into Stafford (who has huge cap hits in the 30M neighorhood) for the next 4-5 years. I'd definitely rather have the #2 pick and Eli on his contract than the #20 pick and Stafford on his contract. There are some salary cap issues down the road and you'll probably end up cutting both JPP and Vernon in the next few years. But the path to a turnaround and a good team is pretty visible to me.
 
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Red Averages

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Just curious from reading the news - What makes Mike Vrabel a viable HC candidate? When did he develop in his relative inexperience to being a top candidate for the Giants job?
 

steveluck7

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I see the Giants job more of a high risk, high reward type whereas the Lions gig has a lower floor (short term) but also a lower ceiling.
In NY, Patricia will have to make his decision on the QB. and he runs the risk of moving on from Eli and having his next guy not be the "one". That will forever label him as "the guy who dumped Eli". There's risk in sticking with Manning and missing out on the next guy with their
# 2 pick. There's also risk in keeping Manning and drafting the next guy at #2, igniting and instant QB controversy in New York.
There's also the possibility that the QB situation works out (in any number of ways) and the NYG are back at the top of the NFC in 2-3 years.

Oh, and I also think that Matt P. preferring the Giants gig stems from conversations with Bill, who likely vouched for the ownership and how they operate.
 

Al Zarilla

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From the article:

“Maybe the Giants would need to get used to his unkempt sideline appearance — backwards hat, pencil behind the ear, with a bushy beard. But what matters is what's between Patricia's ears.”

That’s one of the things I like best about Patricia, i.e., his sideline appearance. Author liked the look of the red faced Tom Coughlin, who I thought might die at the below zero NFCCG at Green Bay in ‘08? Anyway, Matt, will miss you.
 

bankshot1

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I pretty much assumed this at the beginning and everyone else told me it wasn't a fit.

Giants and Mara have always been defense first. They want a D guy. This is the best D guy on the market.

Plus this leak allows for them to soft pedal the process until the Patriots season is over in the crazy unlikely chance that any of this Belichick to giants smoke actually has a scintilla of merit
Actually the last "D" guy the Giants had running the sidelines was Parcells, every HC since then had a background more as an OC-type.

If he snags the Giant job. Matty P would be the first DC since Parcells (excluding Spags filling in this year) to have DC as part of his resume.

And agree with Al Z-love that MP seems to march to the sound of a different drummer.
 

snowmanny

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Word.

Not sure that I would prefer the Detroit job, but the Giants have been a dumpster fire for a few years now. Their "stable ownership" rep doesn't always translate to "well-run organization."
Stable genius ownership?
 

bakahump

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Giants have to Contend with Wentz and Prescott for the next 10 years.

Lions have to deal with Rodgers for the next 3?

My only point is That imho the path to the playoffs looks clearer in Detroit then in NY. And that state of the other teams matter. If MattyP prefers the Giants then obviously he disagrees.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Giants have to Contend with Wentz and Prescott for the next 10 years.

Lions have to deal with Rodgers for the next 3?

My only point is That imho the path to the playoffs looks clearer in Detroit then in NY. And that state of the other teams matter. If MattyP prefers the Giants then obviously he disagrees.
I'm not sure contending with Prescott is really a negative.

Wentz is great but you never know how these things go. A few years ago, contending with Andrew Luck for the next decade looked like a scary proposition. Making these decisions based on one player or one organization that seems strong at the moment doesn't make a lot of sense, unless maybe if we're talking about avoiding the AFC East in 2005 because you've got BB/Brady coming off three Super Bowls and still clearly with 10+ years in them. And Wentz/Pederson aren't quite that level.
 

Curt S Loew

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Matty P would have a statue if he wins just ONE SB in Detroit. That franchise hasn't even been to one. Be a cool looking statue, too.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Certainly possible that Matt was a Giants fan growing up in upstate New York, for whatever that's worth.
 

bankshot1

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old rumor becomes new rumor: Matty P to Motown.

Lion ownership must have been suitably impressed with the D last night and threw a Chevy into the comp package.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Let’s look at the pros and cons of the two jobs

Giants Pros
-ODB
-#2 pick
-Stable Ownership
-Stable QB

Giants Cons
-Manning is in the twilight of career
-Defense is bad
-Offense outside of Beckham and Manning is bleh

Lions pros
-Franchise QB
-Very good offense
-DL is pretty damn solid
-Has an existing working relationship with the GM

Lions Cons
-Ownership

I’m probably missing one or two things but Matt Patricia isn’t wrong for picking the Lions. He’d probably get them back to the playoffs next year while the Giants he would be expected to contend immediately with a lesser roster since the fans will blame the season on McAdoo and ODB getting hurt.
 

Ale Xander

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Let’s look at the pros and cons of the two jobs

Giants Pros
-ODB
-#2 pick
-Stable Ownership
-Stable QB

Giants Cons
-Manning is in the twilight of career
-Defense is bad
-Offense outside of Beckham and Manning is bleh

Lions pros
-Franchise QB
-Very good offense
-DL is pretty damn solid
-Has an existing working relationship with the GM

Lions Cons
-Ownership

I’m probably missing one or two things but Matt Patricia isn’t wrong for picking the Lions. He’d probably get them back to the playoffs next year while the Giants he would be expected to contend immediately with a lesser roster since the fans will blame the season on McAdoo and ODB getting hurt.
You forgot the major Giants pro
NY/NJ v. Detroit.
 

steveluck7

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I posted about this before but I think the biggest con of the Giants job is that his (or the new coach’s) first decision is what to do with an iconic qb (at least iconic in NY) at the end of the line. That’s a decision that, if screwed up, he would never recover from in the job
 

Phil Plantier

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Why is Detroit ownership a con? They seem like the most permissive owners around.

I think a con for Detroit is that they may not know they need to take a step back to compete. The Giants are already aware that the rebuilding is underway.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I posted about this before but I think the biggest con of the Giants job is that his (or the new coach’s) first decision is what to do with an iconic qb (at least iconic in NY) at the end of the line. That’s a decision that, if screwed up, he would never recover from in the job
Part of the reason I think McDaniels would rather go to the Colts over the Giants. He’s had to do it once before with a QB that the fan base really liked and it doomed him from the start. Worst case with Indy is that Luck isn’t ready BUT you have Brisett who already knows your offense. Giants you’re looking at keeping Manning for probably another year or two and then having to be the guy to tell him it’s over. We saw what happened this year when management tried telling Eli that his time was up.

ODB is a pro and con. How much of that can be attributed to McAdoo is anyone’s guess. Same thing with Apple. He seemed like such a level headed kid coming out of school too.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Why is Detroit ownership a con? They seem like the most permissive owners around.

I think a con for Detroit is that they may not know they need to take a step back to compete. The Giants are already aware that the rebuilding is underway.
It’s a con because it’s generally unstable with firing GMs and there’s been a lot of turnover. Granted look at the pantheon of coaches/execs there it’s pretty crappy. Jim Caldwell was probably the best coach they had in years. That kind of shows you the bar.
 

snowmanny

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ODB on Giants is both a pro and a con.
Agreed. You have to deal with his contract, and what he wants is probably way way above what either of the current Pats coordinators would want to give or would want to tie up in a WR, let alone a WR coming off an injury.
 

Mystic Merlin

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It’s a con because it’s generally unstable with firing GMs and there’s been a lot of turnover. Granted look at the pantheon of coaches/execs there it’s pretty crappy. Jim Caldwell was probably the best coach they had in years. That kind of shows you the bar.

The Ford family gave Matt Millen EIGHT YEARS.
 

bankshot1

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IMO going to a perennial floor mat in a division with Rodgers and a resurgent team in Minny has mostly upside for a young 1st time HC.

The Eli conundrum is a major headache still waiting to be resolved, and a no-win situation for a rookie coach to inherit, unless the new QB at the #2, is Brady2.
 

joe dokes

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Why is Detroit ownership a con? They seem like the most permissive owners around.

I think a con for Detroit is that they may not know they need to take a step back to compete. The Giants are already aware that the rebuilding is underway.

Yes. I think Lions fans think they're only a competent head coach from Deep Playoff.
 

johnmd20

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Agreed. You have to deal with his contract, and what he wants is probably way way above what either of the current Pats coordinators would want to give or would want to tie up in a WR, let alone a WR coming off an injury.
With that contract and his problematic antics, he'll be more of a con than a pro.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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How long did they give the coaches though?
Who would you argue should have gotten a longer leash?

After Fontes they gave Ross 3+ years and canned him after going 27-30. Let Moeller finish out a dead season, then hired Mornhingweg who went 5-27 over two years. Then brought in Mariucci who went 15-28, to be fired for Juaron to be interim and go 1-4. Gave Marinelli three yers to go 10-38, then brought in Schwartz and gave him four years to go 29-51. Caldwell got 4 years and went 36-28, but no one has ever argued Caldwell is a good head coach and if you want to argue that, your feet are kinda out from under you.

Which is to say nothing of the fact that you're kinda missing the point - the ownership let's the front office handle that stuff. They're very well known for staying out of stuff. So even if you think that's too much turnover - even though it's pretty typical for an NFL franchise - it likely wasn't ownership making those calls. They are one of the most hands off ownerships in the league. You can perhaps argue that that is to their detriment, but criticizing them for coaching changes - when in reality, it's more likely GM issues over the years that have kept them in the doldrums - seems either foolish or uninformed.
 

Seels

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I think Detroit is a good fit for Patricia, a good fit for Detroit, and a team the Pats can't be too upset about losing a coordinator too. I'm okay with this. Go Lions.

(Eerily similar to Romeo to Browns though)
 

InstaFace

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The Browns' dysfunction makes the Lions look like Seal Team 6. Patricia is probably in a position to succeed there. He's ready, he's earned it, I wish him well, now please don't poach too many of the position coaches...
 

Super Nomario

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ODB is a pro and con. How much of that can be attributed to McAdoo is anyone’s guess. Same thing with Apple. He seemed like such a level headed kid coming out of school too.
I think too much is made of OBJ's off-field / hot-headed stuff. The problem with him is that he's made it clear he wants to get paid. OBJ on a team is a tremendous asset. OBJ getting paid like the most expensive non-QB in the game is probably a net neutral. Maybe worse than that.

Which is to say nothing of the fact that you're kinda missing the point - the ownership let's the front office handle that stuff. They're very well known for staying out of stuff. So even if you think that's too much turnover - even though it's pretty typical for an NFL franchise - it likely wasn't ownership making those calls. They are one of the most hands off ownerships in the league. You can perhaps argue that that is to their detriment, but criticizing them for coaching changes - when in reality, it's more likely GM issues over the years that have kept them in the doldrums - seems either foolish or uninformed.
I agree with your main point - the Fords are patient, arguably to a fault.

Caldwell got 4 years and went 36-28, but no one has ever argued Caldwell is a good head coach and if you want to argue that, your feet are kinda out from under you.
I think Caldwell is fine; his problem was that he wasn't Bob Quinn's guy. Quinn decided to keep him for last year and then they made the playoffs so he couldn't fire him, then this year they missed (with a 9-7 record that was the same as last year, and a better point differential). He wouldn't be at the top of my list if I were a GM looking to hire a HC, but I won't laugh at someone who does hire him. He's coached 7 seasons with 5 winning records and playoffs in 4 years, including a conference championship. He must be doing something right, whether he actually has facial expressions or not.
 

Kliq

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Why are you guys even arguing with Tyrone Biggums? He has an agenda and that’s all he is going to write about in this forum. I’m surprised he hasn’t mentioned he hasn’t watched any NFL this season (not that that would stop him from commenting).
 

streeter88

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The Browns' dysfunction makes the Lions look like Seal Team 6. Patricia is probably in a position to succeed there. He's ready, he's earned it, I wish him well, now please don't poach too many of the position coaches...
Serious question: are there anti-poaching clauses in OC / DC and other senior staff contracts like there are in other industries? Just seems this shouldn't be an issue... at least in the short term.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Who would you argue should have gotten a longer leash?

After Fontes they gave Ross 3+ years and canned him after going 27-30. Let Moeller finish out a dead season, then hired Mornhingweg who went 5-27 over two years. Then brought in Mariucci who went 15-28, to be fired for Juaron to be interim and go 1-4. Gave Marinelli three yers to go 10-38, then brought in Schwartz and gave him four years to go 29-51. Caldwell got 4 years and went 36-28, but no one has ever argued Caldwell is a good head coach and if you want to argue that, your feet are kinda out from under you.

Which is to say nothing of the fact that you're kinda missing the point - the ownership let's the front office handle that stuff. They're very well known for staying out of stuff. So even if you think that's too much turnover - even though it's pretty typical for an NFL franchise - it likely wasn't ownership making those calls. They are one of the most hands off ownerships in the league. You can perhaps argue that that is to their detriment, but criticizing them for coaching changes - when in reality, it's more likely GM issues over the years that have kept them in the doldrums - seems either foolish or uninformed.
No one. For whatever reason they just have not been good at identifying coaches. Lions coaches are like Browns QBs. However, Its still way too much turnover. As you said it could just be that everyone just flat out sucks and its just been a massive string of bad luck. Its a combination of both there. I'm sure the coaches are at least consulted on possible draft choices so both share the fault. Perception is everything and ownership can be viewed as a negative for things like that.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Why are you guys even arguing with Tyrone Biggums? He has an agenda and that’s all he is going to write about in this forum. I’m surprised he hasn’t mentioned he hasn’t watched any NFL this season (not that that would stop him from commenting).
All I'm simply talking about is pros and cons with the Lions and Giants. Nothing about anything else.