Roger G's Wheel of Justice

[candylandriots]

Can we talk about how shitty the Harbaugh brothers are as human beings?  They're both enablers of men who hit women.  Fuck them both so hard.

 
The SF Chronicle was suggesting that McDonald may not be charged. The reporter didn't provide any evidence for this other than the fact that the team publicly has a zero-tolerance policy for domestic violence. Let's assume for a moment that he isn't charged. It seems clear that something happened to his fiancee to cause an investigation. What do you think their responsibility is if McDonald isn't charged?
 
I'm asking earnestly...I'm not sure what the right answer is. But if McDonald is fully innocent, isn't the 49er organization doing the right thing instead of rushing to judgment? Would McDonald have a legitimate grievance if they suspend him and he's ultimately cleared?
 
As bad as what McDonald is being investigated for is, it's not yet in the same league as Hardy or Rice to me where there was a conviction and an admission of guilt/video. He may be guilty and it may be the same thing as those guys, and I'm not sure whether the 49ers deserve the benefit of the doubt post-Aldon Smith last year. But I don't think it's fair to fault them for not trying the guy in the media.
 
As I said earlier, if they do know what happened and are slowing this down because they're thin on defense right now, then fuck them.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Jones masterfully talking out the clock as a stratagem.
[/quote

I thought this said "Jones masterfully taking out his cock" the first time I read it. Lol.

 

[soxfan121]

As I said earlier, if they do know what happened and are slowing this down because they're thin on defense right now, then fuck them.

 
Given the presence of teammates, I think it is implausible they do not know. 
 
So, either they know nothing will come out later to make this decision look dubious and McDonald will be exonerated. 
 
Or, they know and are running the Aldon Smith playbook again. 
 
If it is the latter, the entire 49ers chain of command from York down to Harbaugh should be suspended for a season. Because doing that shit the first time was shameful. Doing it again would be proof they think everyone else is a moron. 

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

The SF Chronicle was suggesting that McDonald may not be charged. The reporter didn't provide any evidence for this other than the fact that the team publicly has a zero-tolerance policy for domestic violence. Let's assume for a moment that he isn't charged. It seems clear that something happened to his fiancee to cause an investigation. What do you think their responsibility is if McDonald isn't charged?
 
I'm asking earnestly...I'm not sure what the right answer is. But if McDonald is fully innocent, isn't the 49er organization doing the right thing instead of rushing to judgment? Would McDonald have a legitimate grievance if they suspend him and he's ultimately cleared?
 
As bad as what McDonald is being investigated for is, it's not yet in the same league as Hardy or Rice to me where there was a conviction and an admission of guilt/video. He may be guilty and it may be the same thing as those guys, and I'm not sure whether the 49ers deserve the benefit of the doubt post-Aldon Smith last year. But I don't think it's fair to fault them for not trying the guy in the media.
 
As I said earlier, if they do know what happened and are slowing this down because they're thin on defense right now, then fuck them.

As I said elsewhere, this is why this issue is a rabbit hole for the NFL. If the charges against McDonald are dropped, the first instinct is to let the matter go. That is, until the pictures of the bruising - I have no doubt that the police took pictures of the bruising - come out. Then there will be a firestorm just like Ray Rice.

And after that, McDonald is going to say something like, "I was restraining her to prevent her from harming herself and the unborn baby. She was acting crazy."

Given how the NFL has screwed up AP and Rice, their best bet is to get the pictures and suspend McDonald. I don't think that's going to happen though.

 

[Dehere]

Senators Booker and Cantwell introducing legislation to strip the NFL of their non-profit status: http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/16/tax-exempt-nfl-cory-booker-bill
 
Honestly not sure how big a deal that would be beyond symbolism. All of the revenue generated by Park Avenue is distributed to the franchises, which are taxed as for-profit entities.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

 
The SF Chronicle was suggesting that McDonald may not be charged. The reporter didn't provide any evidence for this other than the fact that the team publicly has a zero-tolerance policy for domestic violence. Let's assume for a moment that he isn't charged. It seems clear that something happened to his fiancee to cause an investigation. What do you think their responsibility is if McDonald isn't charged?
 
I'm asking earnestly...I'm not sure what the right answer is. But if McDonald is fully innocent, isn't the 49er organization doing the right thing instead of rushing to judgment? Would McDonald have a legitimate grievance if they suspend him and he's ultimately cleared?

 
"not charged" is a long way from "innocent".  I'm sure I don't need to go into the many reasons why someone who is not "innocent" of domestic violence might not be charged.  Public opinion and thus league justice aren't, and shouldn't be, in lockstep with the criminal justice system.
 
For example: MLB suspended A-Rod for a year and a half despite him not being charged (or failing a drug test, for that matter).

 

[candylandriots]

 
"not charged" is a long way from "innocent".  I'm sure I don't need to go into the many reasons why someone who is not "innocent" of domestic violence might not be charged.  Public opinion and thus league justice aren't, and shouldn't be, in lockstep with the criminal justice system.
 
For example: MLB suspended A-Rod for a year and a half despite him not being charged (or failing a drug test, for that matter).

 
Understood - and thus my question was really twofold:
 
1) Should there be a different standard of justice for the NFL when no charges and there is still culpability on the part of the player? Should the 49ers be excoriated for not having a tighter standard than the law? I personally think they can and should have that standard, but could understand them not going above and beyond.
 
2) IF McDonald is fully innocent of charges, doesn't that support the idea that the team is doing the right thing? People (including here) were ready to lock Colin Kaepernick up a few months ago. I think most people (and the law) now think he's innocent of what he was being accused of in the media back a few months ago. I'm not saying because Kaepernick was innocent that McDonald also is, but it does support the team not making a rush to judgment and I don't think it conclusively means that Jim Harbaugh is "an enabler of men who hit women." He may be, but we don't know that yet - all we have is a news report that McDonald is being investigated. His case and Rice's are different - at least they are now.
 
I don't think that it's fair (yet) to compare McDonald to Rice and Hardy.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

 
"not charged" is a long way from "innocent".  I'm sure I don't need to go into the many reasons why someone who is not "innocent" of domestic violence might not be charged.  Public opinion and thus league justice aren't, and shouldn't be, in lockstep with the criminal justice system.
 
For example: MLB suspended A-Rod for a year and a half despite him not being charged (or failing a drug test, for that matter).

What standard should the NFL use to determine what cases it will consider? It has to come up with some sort of standard. I think they'd be wise in closely paralleling their punishments with findings of criminal courts, venturing further only on rare cases where the findings of fact are clear and overwhelming.

An issue I have with your analogy is that PED usage is related to on-field activities and well under MLB's umbrella of enforcement. What is going on in the NFL is an attempt to penalize actions unrelated to on-field competition. (I realize it's an analogy; I'm dipping in only because your comparison is so similar.)

Edit: To be clear, I don't think the NFL HAS to closely follow the courts. My belief is that would be the best starting point in whatever decision matrix they create (as opposed to the Oijua board currently employed). Using the legal system as a core basis for their rulings provides safe footing and cover when they seek to supplement or ignore a court finding.

 

[ALiveH]

I think the standard should be potential loss of advertising dollars.  Which is what the standard has been all along.  At least if it was explicitly stated, the NFL could for the first time be upfront & honest about the standards they're using.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

 
Understood - and thus my question was really twofold:
 
1) Should there be a different standard of justice for the NFL when no charges and there is still culpability on the part of the player? Should the 49ers be excoriated for not having a tighter standard than the law? I personally think they can and should have that standard, but could understand them not going above and beyond.
 
2) IF McDonald is fully innocent of charges, doesn't that support the idea that the team is doing the right thing? People (including here) were ready to lock Colin Kaepernick up a few months ago. I think most people (and the law) now think he's innocent of what he was being accused of in the media back a few months ago. I'm not saying because Kaepernick was innocent that McDonald also is, but it does support the team not making a rush to judgment and I don't think it conclusively means that Jim Harbaugh is "an enabler of men who hit women." He may be, but we don't know that yet - all we have is a news report that McDonald is being investigated. His case and Rice's are different - at least they are now.
 
I don't think that it's fair (yet) to compare McDonald to Rice and Hardy.

 
But this isn't necessarily just a justice question. It's a "how does this affect our ability to sell our entertainment product?" question. If customers and sponsors (and public officials, for those teams that get subsidies for their stadiums) are squeamish about players like McDonald being on the team regardless of what the law determines, why should they not excoriate the 49ers? Why should anyone have to give the 49ers their money?

 

[candylandriots]

 
But this isn't necessarily just a justice question. It's a "how does this affect our ability to sell our entertainment product?" question. If customers and sponsors (and public officials, for those teams that get subsidies for their stadiums) are squeamish about players like McDonald being on the team regardless of what the law determines, why should they not excoriate the 49ers? Why should anyone have to give the 49ers their money?

 
No one should be required to give the 49ers anything at all. But the team is trying to balance selling their entertainment product by having a winning team with having it be a likeable group of players on the field. They could have 53 Tim Tebows out there and people would love the character of the players, and no one would show up when they're 0-16.
 
Finding that balance is (apparently) the hard part. I think people are within their rights to question whether keeping McDonald on the field is the right call, but it's another matter to say that the organization condones domestic violence because it's elected to keep him on the field in the absence of conclusive evidence.

 

[lambeau]

More Hard Knocks? Gloria Allred press conference in Atlanta in five minutes alleging more violence and attacking Roger.
 
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/gloria-allred-in-cobb-to-discuss-alleged-abuse-by-/nhPK2/

 

[glennhoffmania]

Get out of town.  This is new information.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 24s
DE Greg Hardy expected to be added to Commissione's Exempt List, as @JasonPhilCole and @ByJimCorbett reported. Still being negotiated.
 

So the Panthers go from declaring Hardy back and playing this week to this.  Only because Adrian Peterson got on this list is why the Panthers are doing this with Hardy.

 

[soxhop411]

Tim Williams ‏@realtimwilliams  4m
#BREAKING: Sources tell @tylerbaldwin Arizona Cardinals RB Johnathan Dwyer has been arrested for domestic violence. pic.twitter.com/boIAv8plwe
 
http://twitter.com/realtimwilliams/status/512348938116952064

 

[Rusty13]

 
Tim Williams ‏@realtimwilliams  4m
#BREAKING: Sources tell @tylerbaldwin Arizona Cardinals RB Johnathan Dwyer has been arrested for domestic violence. pic.twitter.com/boIAv8plwe
 
http://twitter.com/realtimwilliams/status/512348938116952064
 

 
Wow.  Have we ever seen a whirlwind like this before?

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Finding that balance is (apparently) the hard part. I think people are within their rights to question whether keeping McDonald on the field is the right call, but it's another matter to say that the organization condones domestic violence because it's elected to keep him on the field in the absence of conclusive evidence.

 
I guess I'd like to unpack what you mean by "it's another matter". I think we can agree that some people believe that keeping McDonald on the field creates too strong an association between the team and the domestic violence charges against him, regardless of whether these charges are true. Is what you're objecting to the rhetorical transition from "calling the 49ers linked to a player who is facing domestic violence charges" to "calling the 49ers domestic violence enablers"?

 

[IdiotKicker]

At this point, I'm half expecting to walk in here and find out that Bill Belichick actually is the anti-Christ after having to defend him for so many years.

 

[Silverdude2167]

At this point, I'm half expecting to walk in here and find out that Bill Belichick actually is the anti-Christ after having to defend him for so many years.

I thought that was proved in 2008? going 11-5 and all without Brady.

 

[lostjumper]

 
Wow.  Have we ever seen a whirlwind like this before?

 
I can't remember anything like this in any sport. And this time it's not just an allegation, it's an arrest of the player. It's certainly driving home the point that this is an issue this is for the NFL.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Tim Williams ‏@realtimwilliams   [URL="https://twitter.com/realtimwilliams/status/512348938116952064

https://twitter.com/realtimwilliams/status/512348938116952064"]4m

link to tweet[/url]
#BREAKING: Sources tell @tylerbaldwin Arizona Cardinals RB Johnathan Dwyer has been arrested for domestic violence. pic.twitter.com/boIAv8plwe
 
http://twitter.com/realtimwilliams/status/512348938116952064


Wonder if he makes it through the day on the Cards roster. I'm guessing he's as good as cut.

 

[TheGazelle]

So the Panthers go from declaring Hardy back and playing this week to this.  Only because Adrian Peterson got on this list is why the Panthers are doing this with Hardy.

 
Hardy is now officially on the exempt list.
 
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11543641/greg-hardy-carolina-panthers-expected-placed-exempt-list

 

[Old Fart Tree]

This is unreal.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Hardy is now officially on the exempt list.
 
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11543641/greg-hardy-carolina-panthers-expected-placed-exempt-list

Is this Exempt list the NFL equivalent of being sent to bed without supper? The player still gets paid doesn't he? The player isn't cut or suspended (which gets the union off their back) - but out of the public eye.

 

[soxhop411]

MT @CBSEveningNews: CONFIRMED: Cardinals RB Jonathan Dwyer arrested for DV. Charges -aggravated assault -preventing someone from calling 911
 
https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/512359004241002496

 

[Norm loves Vera]

If the Ginger Hammer doesnt bring justice to Dwyer, Sherrif Joe will take care of it

 

[E5 Yaz]

Edwerderespn Ed Werder
Somehow I don't see #Cardinals backup RB Johnathon Dwyer getting the coveted Commissioner's special exemption

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

He has to be done. Right?

 

[TomRicardo]

If the Ginger Hammer doesnt bring justice to Dwyer, Sherrif Joe will take care of it

 
Umm might want to check his record on domestic violence and sexual assualt cases before you parade him out ...

 

[Fred in Lynn]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[mikeford]

Is Jonathan Dwyer the dumbest person in America? I'll hang up and listen

 

[IdiotKicker]

Is Jonathan Dwyer the dumbest person in America? I'll hang up and listen

The week isn't over yet. Give it time.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

 
Umm might want to check his record on domestic violence and sexual assualt cases before you parade him out

 
Agreed.. not saying Sheriff Joe's volunteer posse wouldn't accept Dwyer into their ranks after found guilty, but having talked to a few people who served their time in tent city, it sounded pretty much like hades.

 

[Luis Taint]

Dwyer has to be the dumbest mofo on the planet.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

TylerBaldwin @tylerbaldwin  ·  1h

Cards RB Jonathan Dwyer is currently being questioned about alleged fight with wife from a while ago. She saved the records of her injuries
 
 

 

[DJnVa]

Is Jonathan Dwyer the dumbest person in America? I'll hang up and listen

This didn't happen today. Still an idiot though.

 

[Royal Reader]

 
Umm might want to check his record on domestic violence and sexual assualt cases before you parade him out ...

 
Well yeah, but Dwyer is black.

 

[soxhop411]

Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo  5m
Phoenix PD confirms Jonathan Dwyer arrested on charges of domestic violence and aggravated assault for two incidents in July.
 
Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo  3m
Release from Phoenix PD lists 2 victims - a 27-yo female and an 18-mo old child. One of the counts is aggravated assault involving a minor
 
Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo  30s
Police say Dwyer admitted to incidents but has denied the physical assaults. Meanwhile, the Cardinals have announced Dwyer is deactivated.
 
 
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo

 

[Ed Hillel]

Yup, here it comes. The floodgates have opened. These women are becoming empowered, and I suspect we'll be hearing more stories in the near future.

 

[candylandriots]

 
I guess I'd like to unpack what you mean by "it's another matter". I think we can agree that some people believe that keeping McDonald on the field creates too strong an association between the team and the domestic violence charges against him, regardless of whether these charges are true. Is what you're objecting to the rhetorical transition from "calling the 49ers linked to a player who is facing domestic violence charges" to "calling the 49ers domestic violence enablers"?

 
Yes, exactly. There have been some comments both in here and in the broader media to that effect -- calling the 49ers and/or Jim Harbaugh hypocrites and enablers. I was responding mostly to those comments. That may end up being true, but I don't think it's fair to make those comments yet.

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

Yup, here it comes. The floodgates have opened. These women are becoming empowered, and I suspect we'll be hearing more stories in the near future.

Yep.


They no longer live in fear no one will believe them. That's a net positive.

 

[dcmissle]

So how much money do you figure Jameis Winston is costing himself? What with the rape allegation, the Burger King incident, the Publix incident and today's half game suspension?

 

[Dogman]

So how much money do you figure Jameis Winston is costing himself? What with the rape allegation, the Burger King incident, the Publix incident and today's half game suspension?

 
None.  At present, this isn't an NFL problem. He is still ubertalented and will be a first round pick. With the rookie wage scale, he will still get the max he can.
 
If he pulls this shit while an NFL player that may change the calculus.

 

[lostjumper]

 
None.  At present, this isn't an NFL problem. He is still ubertalented and will be a first round pick. With the rookie wage scale, he will still get the max he can.
 
If he pulls this shit while an NFL player that may change the calculus.

But you really can't afford to screw up a #1 pick anymore. If you take a QB in the top 3 and he's a bust it sets your franchise back years. I will assume there will be some huge red flags when teams dig into his profile. Not to mention the possible PR hit a team drafting him might take now.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

Lt. Brandon Jones ‏@LtJonesMCSO
Jonathan Dwyer has been booked into @RealSheriffJoe 4th Avenue Jail on charges of Agg. Assault.
 
editing to add some details:
 
"The police said Dwyer, who was deactivated by the Cardinals on Wednesday night, denied that any physical assaults took place. Dwyer, the police said, was being booked at the Maricopa County Jail on a count of aggravated assault causing a fracture, a count of aggravated assault involving a minor, and two counts of criminal damage, as well as a count of preventing the use of a phone in an emergency."
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/18/sports/football/nfl.html
 
no wonder he is placed in the Max Security Jail.

 

[riboflav]

 
Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo  5m
Phoenix PD confirms Jonathan Dwyer arrested on charges of domestic violence and aggravated assault for two incidents in July.
 
Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo  3m
Release from Phoenix PD lists 2 victims - a 27-yo female and an 18-mo old child. One of the counts is aggravated assault involving a minor
 
Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo  30s
Police say Dwyer admitted to incidents but has denied the physical assaults. Meanwhile, the Cardinals have announced Dwyer is deactivated.
 
 
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo
 

 
So, some have come out and defended Peterson for beating (I mean disciplining) his four-year old. Any takers on Dwyer beating (I mean disciplining) an 18-month old?
 
EDIT: And wait... Does this mean that because he's a black southerner, I should be more outraged that he hit the 27-year old woman than the baby?

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

None.  At present, this isn't an NFL problem. He is still ubertalented and will be a first round pick. With the rookie wage scale, he will still get the max he can.
 
If he pulls this shit while an NFL player that may change the calculus.

Teams are going to pass on him because of his background, thus costing him money (lower draft pick).

 

[soxfan121]

They no longer live in fear no one will believe them. That's a net positive.

 
Amen. These last two weeks have done more for domestic violence awareness and victims than the previous fifty-two (no offense to the new MA DV law, which is quite good but also caused a minor ripple when measured against the NFL tsunami). 
 
This shit needs to change. And this is how it happens. 

 

[Fred in Lynn]

 
Amen. These last two weeks have done more for domestic violence awareness and victims than the previous fifty-two (no offense to the new MA DV law, which is quite good but also caused a minor ripple when measured against the NFL tsunami). 
 
This shit needs to change. And this is how it happens. 

Do people really think this? I haven't learned anything I didn't already know.

 

[NDame616]

Yep.


They no longer live in fear no one will believe them. That's a net positive.

 
this also sets a dangerous precedent, however. Any allegation and you're suspended? You don't think a bitter ex, or someone's estranged current wife, will "release" statements to TMZ about "very good NFL player X" being abusive throughout their marriage trying to hit the talk show circuit and sign the book deal?
 
Maybe I'm too cynical.
 
What happens now after a DUI arrest? Josh Brent killed a guy and I don't see people lining up to make sure he doesn't come back to the NFL. Where is Budweiser coming out with threats about pulling ads after a DUI arrest?