Remember when tickets were sold without gimmicks?

Marceline · Mar 16, 2014

YTF said:
Would it be better? Yes you would have the option, but would you be happy to pay $20-$30 for a $5 item that you needed or would you feel as though you had been fucked over? I'll offer another comp and again we ARE talking needs rather than desires, but take the recent shortage of wood pellets. I have heard of cases of limiting quantities that folks can buy in an effort to be fair to those in need, but I haven't heard of retailers raising prices. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm not aware of it in my location.

I would be happy to pay it - or at least have the option to, instead of just having it be sold out.

Bringing it back to the sox, isn't variable pricing preferable to having to wait in a virtual waiting room for hours on one specific day in December, and if you're not lucky enough to get in, every game is pretty much instantly sold out?

The old system sucked. If I wanted to buy tickets I would have to pay a huge premium to ace or someone on stubhub. I'd much rather be able to buy from the source.

Lose Remerswaal · Mar 16, 2014

YTF said:
You're right going to Fenway isn't as vital and not a staple, but as a desired "need" for many and being the "only game in town" as you put it, places them in the same position as the only store in town that has water, bread or generators available. And we would and should be outraged if they gouged us.

Only game in town? Maybe the only premium game in town, but you've got Lowell, Pawtucket, Worcester, Manchester and Portland within a reasonable drive of anyone in the area, and you can see great, affordable baseball there.

Everyone doesn't have to stay at the Ritz, some folks can stay at a Sheraton or a Holiday Inn.

Fishercat · Mar 16, 2014

YTF said:
Would it be better? Yes you would have the option, but would you be happy to pay $20-$30 for a $5 item that you needed or would you feel as though you had been fucked over? I'll offer another comp and again we ARE talking needs rather than desires, but take the recent shortage of wood pellets. I have heard of cases of limiting quantities that folks can buy in an effort to be fair to those in need, but I haven't heard of retailers raising prices. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm not aware of it in my location.

It depends...is the item actually worth five dollars? Could it be argued that the $5 snow shovel was actually, when taken in aggregate, severely underpriced because there is no use for it in July? While the $20-$30 dollar shovel, in aggregate, is similarly overpriced, and that the actual value of that shovel may be $15?

Anyway, to me this just feels like an extension of how ticketing works. Going through the levels

General Admission; Single Price: The most basic kind of seating you can really do: everyone pays the same price and has the same opportunity. For the Sox, it would be as if they said every ticket in the venue is $40, first person in the building can sit behind home plate. (Most common in outdoor events)
Assigned Seating; Single Price: Same price, but first person to the ticket window sits behind home plate and the last person is stuck behind the pole. (Pretty rare, but does happen for some concerts)
Hybrid Admission: GA and Assigned Seating Areas with one price for each option. (Most common in smaller concert venues that have a small premium seated area and a GA Floor, like HoB Boston)
Hybrid Admission: GA and Assigned Seating Area with multiple pricing tiers (Concert venues with lawns love this)
Assigned Seating with Pricing Tiers: This is probably closest to what the Sox did before this year. Your Yankee and Twins games cost the same for each seat, but they value the seats really specifically. Your bleacher seat, your RF Box seat, and your Bud Deck seats all have different values based on quality of the seat. This is also how most stage shows, concerts, and the like work.
Assigned Seating with Pricing TIers and Peak Performances: This is closest to the 2014 version of the Sox. They're saying your Yankee game is a more valuable experience than your Twins game, and that your field box seat is a more valuable experience than your bleacher seat. This is closer to the Broadway and Cirque du Soleil models.
Dynamic Pricing: Basically the above with (somewhat) real-time adjustments to other quality indicators. I doubt it'll be an issue for the Red Sox, but if we've accepted them controlling for other quality indicators (team matchup, seat location, playoff/non-playoff, quality of play), it's just another step to control for things like pitching matchup (Lester v. Shields is more valuable than Workman v. Vargas) or weather.

I would have to be convinced that this next step is a dramatic departure than any of those previous changes to really be perturbed by this.

HriniakPosterChild · Mar 16, 2014

YTF said:
There has to be some sort of standard that this is going to be set to. Call it an opening price if you like, but I'm pretty confident that the decreases don't fall below that.

No, there really doesn't. You might wish it were the case, but that doesn't make it so.

In Seattle's Safeco Field, there are extra-special "charter seats" that were licensed to individuals when the park was built. Licensees spent ~$20k/seat for the right to buy the seat for 20 years at whatever price the team chose to set. Some of those licenses didn't sell when Safeco was constructed, so the team had a surplus of extra-special tickets (and demand was high 10+ years ago when this was an issue).

The city of Seattle had an ordinance making it illegal to sell tickets above face value. As a resident, I had this ordinance hanging over my head when I wanted to scalp my unwanted tickets. But the team could scalp theirs because they printed the (inflated) price on the ticket. Two seats next to each other could differ in face value by more than $50.

Montana Fan · Mar 17, 2014

Chief Wahoo said:
I agree. I recently experienced this - after the storm that hit Boston @ a week before Christmas I tried to buy some rock salt. Out of stock everywhere I could get to. I would have been happy to pay a hefty premium to get just 1 bag. I would have considered that a penalty for not having a little more foresight.

Of course you wouldn't mind paying. My brother owns a hardware store and knows the business well. But there's a fine line to ordering too much rock salt and getting stuck with the inventory all summer. Two things he did this winter were to send his trucks to the rock salt, bring it back to the store and have his guys fill every empty container he had to sell the salt. He also found an alternate place to purchase that is relatively unknown. Thanks to Czar and his ilk, he accurately gauged the weather. He had 8 pallets worth deliver in mid-February and it sold out in an hour. He had 12 more pallets delivered the following week at a time when no one could get rock salt. It cost him more to get the product and he priced it commensurately.

In my lifetime · Mar 17, 2014

Joe Sixpack said:
I would be happy to pay it - or at least have the option to, instead of just having it be sold out.

Bringing it back to the sox, isn't variable pricing preferable to having to wait in a virtual waiting room for hours on one specific day in December, and if you're not lucky enough to get in, every game is pretty much instantly sold out?

The old system sucked. If I wanted to buy tickets I would have to pay a huge premium to ace or someone on stubhub. I'd much rather be able to buy from the source.

I am not sure why you think the new system will eliminate the virtual waiting room. My guess now that because the price of tickets for the most popular games will go up after the initial listing that there will be an initial rush for tickets ensuring healthy waiting times.

bankshot1 · Mar 17, 2014

Dynamic Pricing: Basically the above with (somewhat) real-time adjustments to other quality indicators.

In terms of actually buying the tickets,what does this mean?

Real life example: I want 2 Monster seats for 4/24. MFY . Am I competing against others people at some unknown yet to be determined price?

When I log on to redsox/monsterseatwhatever .com at 110AM tomorrow do I put in a request for 2 Monsters tix and the max I would pay? And if I am among the higher offers my order gets filled?

Fishercat · Mar 17, 2014

bankshot1 said:
In terms of actually buying the tickets,what does this mean?

Real life example: I want 2 Monster seats for 4/24. MFY . Am I competing against others people at some unknown yet to be determined price?

When I log on to redsox/monsterseatwhatever .com at 110AM tomorrow do I put in a request for 2 Monsters tix and the max I would pay? And if I am among the higher offers my order gets filled?

Not quite sure to the actual structural format that they'll use, but I'd expect it to be sort of like airlines. You'll be quoted a price and you can get it at that price. If you choose not to get it at that price, you can go back there at a later time and buy the tickets, but the price will have been changed to reflect market conditions.

So let's say the Noon price is 40 dollars. If you log on at noon, that's your start point. You may log on six hours or three days or two months later and the price will have been adjusted. But, unless it's drastically different than other dynamic pricing systems, you'll be quoted a price and can get it at that price at any time.

tonyandpals · Mar 17, 2014

bankshot1 said:
When I log on to redsox/monsterseatwhatever .com at 110AM tomorrow do I put in a request for 2 Monsters tix and the max I would pay? And if I am among the higher offers my order gets filled?

I don't think you're going to be bidding. If you "cart" tickets you'll be given a price for that point in time. If you buy them, that may change the price for others down the road.

My thinking is this is going to more about entire games being priced differently and not too much fluctuation for a given game. Simply because they are going to sell them all out, april or not. We're talking fewer than 300 seats per game. That gives them 30 games or 9k tickets to sell.

This is going to allow them to throw out the current 5 tier system.

Some things I think they'll do with this sale:
Jack up OD and Yanks
April weekday will probably start at face from last year, or a little less. Weekends a little more
May weekdays and weekends will be more than April
Front rows will be more than back rows
Middle sections will be more than the end sections.

Overall, I think this dynamic pricing is going to be more of a tool for them to customize it on a game/day/location basis. I don't know how much of the demand will factor in as I think they're all going to be sold tomorrow. Unless they hold them back or they're going to update pricing when inventory decreases tomorrow. I really don't see it (price changes) happening mid stream in the first day. If anything it will be for tickets held back.

But 9k tickets, no lottery, open to everyone tomorrow? Should be VWR hell and gone in a blink.

bankshot1 · Mar 17, 2014

I assume whatever price is quoted, unless the consumer accepts very quickly, the tix will be offered to another consumer, as it seems that demand far outstrips supply..

But its interesting that on a Sox board, we are in the dark as to how this new ticket-buying process will work.

JimD · Mar 17, 2014

I believe it all comes down to basic supply and demand. The Boston Red Sox are really, really popular. Fenway Park is also one of the last two truly iconic ballparks left in MLB, which brings in the non-Sox fans. Casual fans in the metro Boston area and out-of-towners who want to take in a game as part of a visit to Boston have greater access to available tickets than ever before. Prices were going up no matter what.

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 17, 2014

JimD said:
Fenway Park is also one of the last two truly iconic ballparks left in MLB, which brings in the non-Sox fans.

It is really insane how popular the tours are, escpecially in cold weather. Really really insane. There are so many who would much rather pay $16 for a tour then $28 or $30 for an actual game.

tonyandpals · Mar 17, 2014

bankshot1 said:
I assume whatever price is quoted, unless the consumer accepts very quickly, the tix will be offered to another consumer, as it seems that demand far outstrips supply..

This is exactly how it works today. You pull up a ticket, you have X time to respond. If not it goes back into the pile for someone else to buy.

The big question is, will that price be the same tomorrow for everyone who pulls it up? Or will it change 30-60-90 minutes in? (I think they'll all be gone by then if not priced to the moon).

Personally, I don't think the Sox will have a robust enough system in place to change the pricing on the fly tomorrow. That's what my gut is telling me. My feeling is they'll hold some of them back and the prices will change as they release them over time.

A perfect example would be of how it works with "Official Platinum Listings" on Ticketmaster. I'll give you the One Direction example. They announce their tour, put Foxboro shows on sale, and in addition to the regular face value tickets, they sell "Platinum Listings" marked up. Great seats that if you could buy through the onsales, you could get for $100. But they put them in the platinum listing for $300ea and they sell out the first day. Go back the next day there are similar Platinum listings for $400ea....weeks later $500....today $950. I've also seen examples for this for many other artists/venues through ticketmaster Platinum listings. The "Sox" even started doing it this year with Billy Joel. Want seats on the field? Try your luck in the general onsale OR spend $900 on a Platinum Listing and get the best seats in the house.

wibi · Mar 17, 2014

Dan to Theo to Ben said:
It is really insane how popular the tours are, escpecially in cold weather. Really really insane. There are so many who would much rather pay $16 for a tour then $28 or $30 for an actual game.

That's not the rational they use though. Most (like myself) don't have a chance to get to Boston all that often and might not even have a chance to catch a game. When the option is tour or nothing it's an easy choice

amh03 · Mar 17, 2014

wibi said:
That's not the rational they use though. Most (like myself) don't have a chance to get to Boston all that often and might not even have a chance to catch a game. When the option is tour or nothing it's an easy choice

Plus the tours get you access to parts of the Park you'd never see during a game...

Fred not Lynn · Mar 18, 2014

tonyandpals said:
Personally, I don't think the Sox will have a robust enough system in place to change the pricing on the fly...

Well, some mystery team just bought a mega-supercomputer...

tonyandpals · Mar 18, 2014

After thinking about this some more, my prediction on today's sale is that it will be exactly like the Billy Joel premium listings they held a few months ago. You'll wait in the VWR, pull up a list of games, pick your game and be presented with options by price. Likely organized by row and section, although for Billy Joel they just said Platinum 1 and the price. The lable didn't tell you that it was the first 3 rows of the center section of the field. Hopefully in this case (if this is what they are going to do) the labels are more specific as to what you'll pull up. That way people don't waste their time pulling up a price level only to have them not be happy with the section. They throw them back and try another price level and get nothing.

If I had to guess, that's how I think it will work today. We'll see in 3.5 hours...

bankshot1 · Mar 18, 2014

FYI prices are now listed for April Monster seats, $150-$300 per depending on game, section and row.

http://mlb.mlb.com/ticketing/pricing.jsp?c_id=bos&layout=gameflow&view=greenmonster

tonyandpals · Mar 18, 2014

bankshot1 said:
FYI prices are now listed for April Monster seats, $225-$300, depending on section and row.

http://mlb.mlb.com/ticketing/pricing.jsp?c_id=bos&layout=gameflow&view=greenmonster

As low as $150.

SRO $30 - $75

bankshot1 · Mar 18, 2014

Yup.

I was looking at the 4/24 MFY game $225-300, that's my only choice.

biollante · Mar 18, 2014

This is not supply and demand. Baseball in the U.S. is a monopoly.

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

So they're basically admitting M1, M2, and M10 are limited view, huh?

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

Still at a loss for words as to how they think OD and April yankees are "similarly demanded"

singaporesoxfan · Mar 18, 2014

biollante said:
This is not supply and demand. Baseball in the U.S. is a monopoly.

The laws of supply and demand apply just as much to monopolies as to perfectly competitive markets.

Fishercat · Mar 18, 2014

Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Still at a loss for words as to how they think OD and April yankees are "similarly demanded"

I'm assuming it's just their highest tier of base demand. Unless you want them to have 81 different tiers, it makes sense to me.

Anyway, the deals aren't too bad there if you want to go on a weeknight. Reds and Rays are competitive and $30 runs below what we would have paid last year. Was hoping weekends would run a bit cheaper but the system makes sense.

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

singaporesoxfan said:
The laws of supply and demand apply just as much to monopolies as to perfectly competitive markets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_%28economics%29

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

Fishercat said:
I'm assuming it's just their highest tier of base demand. Unless you want them to have 81 different tiers, it makes sense to me.

Certainly. But as an organization fighting over the Boston Strong rights, they've seriously underestimnated Pats Day 2014. (and overestimated the 3 games that follow). Those should be in flipped tiers.

bankshot1 · Mar 18, 2014

I went on at noon, I tried for 2 @ 300 and 2 @ $265 for 5 minutes, and got messages "can't process due to high traffic volume" and then tix not available in qty ordered.

Demand way >supply

Minneapolis Millers · Mar 18, 2014

Well, I was hit with the "high transaction" and "no tickets available in that amount" notes for the games I first looked at, but then I got two in M10 row 1 for the Papi bobblehead game ($150/ticket). Found pairs in other games as well... Not sure if that means I was lucky or if demand isn't terribly high.

tonyandpals · Mar 18, 2014

Looks like pricing is changing on the fly...I don't think Pats day was $100 for SRO to start.

tonyandpals · Mar 18, 2014

$400 now for OD *Zone 2

Fishercat · Mar 18, 2014

tonyandpals said:
Looks like pricing is changing on the fly...I don't think Pats day was $100 for SRO to start.

Interesting. For the lower demand games, it looks like it was sticking at face, although most of the cheaper, lower demand ($30 SRO) are gone from what I saw.

bankshot1 · Mar 18, 2014

The 4/24 MFY game I tried for ($300/265) are now priced at $400, despite no tickets being available.

They'll probably be on Ace and StubHub tomorrow at $800.

beezer · Mar 18, 2014

bankshot1 said:
The 4/24 MFY game I tried for ($300/265) are now priced at $400, despite no tickets being available.

They'll probably be on Ace and StubHub tomorrow at $800.

Opening day Row 3, which was going for $225 is already on Stubhub starting at $662

tonyandpals · Mar 18, 2014

beezer said:
Opening day Row 3, which was going for $225 is already on Stubhub starting at $662

Yup. Which is why the next batch was put up for $400, and they'll only go up.

bankshot1 · Mar 18, 2014

bankshot1 said:
The 4/24 MFY game I tried for ($300/265) are now priced at $400, despite no tickets being available.

They'll probably be on Ace and StubHub tomorrow at $800.

Opening day Row 3, which was going for $225 is already on Stubhub starting at $662

Fucking A the 4/24 tickets I bid on are now on StubHub for $882 each..

tonyandpals · Mar 18, 2014

bankshot1 said:
Fucking A the 4/24 tickets I bid on are now on StubHub for $882 each..

I don't see them selling for that price. I think they'll adjust quite a bit. Someone trying to make quick money on people who may panic that they didn't get Yanks monsters in early April on the 1st day they went on sale.

bankshot1 · Mar 18, 2014

tonyandpals said:
I don't see them selling for that price. I think they'll adjust quite a bit. Someone trying to make quick money on people who may panic that they didn't get Yanks monsters in early April on the 1st day they went on sale.

Probably, but who knows? Another 4 just got posted on StubHub @$990.downloadable and good to go.

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

Honestly, I'd feel a lot better about this whole thing, if the Red Sox just said they're auctioning these for the RSFoundation. Not a fan of this horse and pony show.

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

Carted 3 in M7 row 2 for OD, PM if you want them, can hold them for a couple minutes.

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

I think we can afford Stephen Drew now

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

You know it's a gimmick, when you can cart OD, but Tuesday April 8th is not available.

tonyandpals · Mar 18, 2014

I'm pulling up SRO and pairs all over the place now, except for OD.

Tim Salmon · Mar 18, 2014

I got two Opening Day SRO in my cart at $125 each. I just wanted to see if it was possible. I threw them back.

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

tonyandpals said:
I'm pulling up SRO and pairs all over the place now, except for OD.

not for RangersRays/Reds are you?

bankshot1 · Mar 18, 2014

I just went back in for the 4/24 MFY game. And tix that I tried to get at noon for the ask of $300 are now available for $500 and $600 per ticket.

Fuck them

Dan to Theo to Ben · Mar 18, 2014

m7 row 1, $600 each, want them bankshot?

$600 for midweek april, they're insane. You have a point

tonyandpals · Mar 18, 2014

60 SROs showing up for a bunch of different games now.

Remember when tickets were sold without gimmicks?

Well-Known Member

Member

Experiencing Furry Panic

Member

Svelte and sexy!

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Svelte and sexy!

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Banned

Well-Known Member

Member

Tippi Hedren

Dick Button Jr.

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Banned

Banned

Well-Known Member

Svelte and sexy!

Banned

Banned

Member

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Svelte and sexy!

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Well-Known Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Well-Known Member