Yawkey Way now Jersey St again

charlieoscar

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While Yawkey is ultimately responsible for the racism the team practiced under his ownership, you have to remember that the old players he employed as GMs, managers, coaches, etc., were also racist. Did he choose them because of their beliefs or did he just go along with them? Baseball has a much longer history of precluding Blacks then just in Yawkey's era. Attempts were made to bring some into the game as Indians, or some such but that was not especially successful.

How many fans were out there screaming, "We want Satchel. We want Satchel."? There is a section of our population right now, whose size I don't care to contemplate, who undoubtedly would tell you that baseball should not be played by African-Americans or players from the DR or Mexico, etc., or Jews: only whites. Give 'em time and they'll probably add Catholics to their list. Wonder how they deal with the NBA and NFL?

And by the way, Bill Veeck made an attempt to integrate baseball even before Branch Rickey.
 

Sin Duda

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I had never heard the Veeck integration story so I googled it. According to this SABR article, it is a falsehood perpetuated by Veeck himself and carried on as truth but unsubstantiated.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Hiring a qualified minority manager or selling ownership shares and bringing in a minority partner would go farther to separate Henry from Yawkey's legacy in my opinion. The city renaming a street on behalf of John Henry is purely a symbolic gesture.
I agree with this on top of renaming the street. I would make hiring an African American manager a top priority once the team wises up with Farrell.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Well Veeck did integrate the American League with Larry Doby only a couple of months after Jackie Robinson plus he added Satchel Paige and Luke Easter to Cleveland so it's not like he was a flaming racist like you seem to imply. I give Veeck alot of credit for his integration efforts. You seem to downplay his role in the integration process.

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richgedman'sghost

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Well Veeck did integrate the American League with Larry Doby only a couple of months after Jackie Robinson plus he added Satchel Paige and Luke Easter to Cleveland so it's not like he was a flaming racist
I give Veeck alot of credit for his integration efforts. You seem to downplay his role in the integration process.

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RI 2 VA Sox Fan

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Renaming is an idea whose time has come. I am not in favor of naming after any individual and would prefer something that reflects baseball, Boston and acknowledges racism. Perhaps "Dream Way". If it came to choosing an individual then I am in the Pumpsie camp.
 
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Sin Duda

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Well Veeck did integrate the American League with Larry Doby only a couple of months after Jackie Robinson plus he added Satchel Paige and Luke Easter to Cleveland so it's not like he was a flaming racist like you seem to imply. I give Veeck alot of credit for his integration efforts. You seem to downplay his role in the integration process.

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Sin Duda

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I guess you are responding to my post. I was not implying that Veeck was a "flaming racist", but rather one who would embellish a story. I'm glad he was at the forefront of baseball's integration; he was not, however, a step ahead of Branch Rickey according to the article. I found the article to be a great read, but then, I love reading about the bygone days of baseball.
 

BigMike

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A historical figure was a flawed man who did great things for the city, and had his own personal deamons that while common at the time make him viewed as a monster today. Let's not overlook the approximately 450 million dollars the Yawkey foundation has provided to the poor, sick, and of course young athletes in Boston, the vast majority of those who benefited of course being minorities.
 

charlieoscar

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I had never heard the Veeck integration story so I googled it. According to this SABR article, it is a falsehood perpetuated by Veeck himself and carried on as truth but unsubstantiated.
From Wikipedia:
The authors of a controversial article in the 1998 issue of SABR's The National Pastime argued that Veeck invented the story of buying the Phillies and filling their roster with Negro leaguers, claiming Philadelphia's black press made no mention of a prospective sale to Veeck. Subsequently, the article was strongly challenged by the late historian Jules Tygiel, who refuted it point-by-point in an article in the 2006 issue of SABR's The Baseball Research Journal,[6] and in an appendix, entitled "Did Bill Veeck Lie About His Plan to Purchase the ’43 Phillies?", published in Paul Dickson's biography, Bill Veeck: Baseball's Greatest Maverick.[7] Joseph Thomas Moore wrote in his biography of Doby, "Bill Veeck planned to buy the Philadelphia Phillies with the as yet unannounced intention of breaking that color line."[8]

[6] Revisiting Bill Veeck and the 1943 Phillies, The National Pastime, 2006 issue, page 109. Retrieved 2012-05-12.
[7] Dickson, Paul (2012). Bill Veeck: Baseball's Greatest Maverick. New York: Walker & Company. ISBN 978-0-8027-1778-8.
[8] Moore, Joseph Thomas (1988). Pride Against Prejudice: The Biography of Larry Doby. New York: Praeger Publishers. p. 19. ISBN 0275929841.

BTW, I knew Jules Tygiel and he had a sterling reputation as a researcher and author. Paul Dickson has written at least 65 non-fiction books and is noted in baseball circles for his baseball dictionary.
 

FormerLurker

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I guess I have the same thoughts that a few people above had as well. In the popular mind a handful of individuals (Cap Anson, Ty Cobb, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, Dixie Walker, Ben Chapman, Yawkey, and maybe a few others) are designated as the Official Baseball Racists, and everyone else is left off the hook, even though it was a collective sin that endured for more than six decades, not the fault of any one man or small group. I don't really like the idea of an inconsistent and patchy world in which one guy is purged from places of honor and another guy who acted more or less the same has all his honors live on. But I think I like even less a world where the flawed people of the past are all erased completely. Who knows how the generations of the future will look back at us and whether they will consider us worthy of honor?

Of course, most baseball executives of the distant past, racist or not, have been forgotten and don't have a street or other monument dedicated in their names, so I guess this is more of a theoretical than a practical concern.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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I'd be in favor of just reverting to Jersey. I think this thing of naming little bits of streets after luminaries is overdone--it feels cheesy.

BTW, the Globe says the change came in 1977 -- but I could have sworn that the street signs still said Jersey when I moved here in 1980, and weren't changed till a bit later. Am I confused? (I mean, about this in particular, as opposed to everything?)
 

MuzzyField

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This is really a long overdue un-naming. Thanks to Tom and his Winter Haven Elks rulers, Mays and a bunch of others great players were deemed unworthy and the eventual 'worthy' were treated like shit.
 

charlieoscar

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And by the way, while Pumpsie Green was the first Black player to appear in the major leagues for the Red Sox, they did have a minor leaguer by the name of Lorenzo "Piper" Davis who played for their Scranton affiliate at age 26 in 1950 and was leading the team in batting average, home runs, and RBIs in 15 games but two days before the May 15 deadline, he was cut for "economic reasons."

"Who Was Piper Davis?" by David Nevard with David Marasco, Buffalo Head Society: http://www.buffalohead.org/piper.htm is quite an interesting read and has one explanation of why Willie Mays was not signed.
 

simplyeric

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Fenway Way

Or go a little baroque with it:

Red Sox Boulevard.

WTF is wrong with you people and 'rename it Jersey Street'? Are you Jets fans? Or just old-school Giants fans?
 

streeter88

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Fenway Way

Or go a little baroque with it:

Red Sox Boulevard.

WTF is wrong with you people and 'rename it Jersey Street'? Are you Jets fans? Or just old-school Giants fans?
I am glad someone else said what had been bothering me all day.

Why not just finish the job they started earlier this summer and name the whole thing after Big Papi?
 

Lose Remerswaal

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A historical figure was a flawed man who did great things for the city, and had his own personal deamons that while common at the time make him viewed as a monster today. Let's not overlook the approximately 450 million dollars the Yawkey foundation has provided to the poor, sick, and of course young athletes in Boston, the vast majority of those who benefited of course being minorities.
The money did end up doing a whole lot of good, but I'm not sure Tom was responsible for that. He died and left the team to Jean, she died and left it to the trust and the trust sold it and the folks running the trust (was it John Harrington?) were the ones who determined where the money should go. So definitely a whole lot of good came out of Yawkey's ownership of the Red Sox, but not necessarily anything he would have expected or recommended.
 

YTF

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Honestly I have no issue with renaming the street, but I'd rather it wasn't named after a player. If it were, the only one I can think of that I would like to see recognized is Mike Andrews. The former second baseman for the Sox has a forty year association with The Jimmy Fund and has been it's chairman for over thirty years. The work he does is truly greater than anything that he or any other player has done on the field. I urge all to just take a minute or two to read the link attached.

http://www.jimmyfund.org/about-us/boston-red-sox/players/mike-andrews/
 

Granite Sox

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I don't view the re-naming question as the selective targeting of one individual (Yawkey) relative to a whole generation (or three) of baseball management that actively suppressed integration and practiced institutional racism.

It's local to Boston, and we have our own specific history on this question. It's a good idea whose time has come.

I don't have a great suggestion for a new name, but I don't think forcing a name to align with the 'first this' or 'turning point that' is the way to go, either. There's an opportunity for something historic(al), enduring, and unique to Boston and/or the Red Sox that some inspired historian should be able to bring forward.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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I understand the history involved here, not a big fan of renaming a street as a way to disassociate current ownership with the history of the team. You can't just erase the fact that he owned the team regardless of what you call the street. Does anyone cringe when the walk down Yawkey Way or hear the word Yawkey? I've always felt the better approach is to embrace history and use it as a learning tool going forward. Maybe John Henry should have started ejecting fans who scream the word "nigger" at opposing center fielders a few weeks after he bought the team, that would have been more proactive than calling on the city to rename the street that is currently named for an owner in the HOF. But maybe he felt that a strict ejection policy would effect revenue, who knows.

Dude owned the team, he also had some issues, regardless of what JH does, he'll never be able to change the facts. I'd prefer he draw his line in the sand a different way.
 

drbretto

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You can't just erase the fact that he owned the team regardless of what you call the street. Does anyone cringe when the walk down Yawkey Way or hear the word Yawkey?
I do cringe when I hear Yawkey, and this doesn't erase the history books. It just stops honoring a racist. It's not like he gave us a whole bunch of championships or anything, either.
 

Monbonthbump

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As a lifetime Red Sox fan who will probably never get back to Fenway I would nevertheless like to add my two cents to this discussion. Basically Tom Yawkey had a lot of money and did pretty much what he wanted with the team because of that fact. Should wealth negate stupidity and should some charitable acts make people overlook overt bigotry? I'll not throw in the implicit political comment but will hope that Yawkey's name is removed and replaced by that of a player who actually contributed something on the field which has provided so many thrills and heartaches. Papi would be fine with me but I would go with any player deemed worthy by those New Englanders who will actually tread the street with regularity.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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No. Both are bad. Racism is bad. Pedophiles are bad. You can't say one is worse than the other. If both are bad then that's it it's bad.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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I do cringe when I hear Yawkey, and this doesn't erase the history books. It just stops honoring a racist. It's not like he gave us a whole bunch of championships or anything, either.
Honest question, how do you feel about the Adam Jones stuff in comparison to how you feel about the street name?

The fact that current ownership allowed that conduct to continue in the park for years really pisses me off. I can deal with the fact that rich white guy who owned a plantation in the south in the 60's was a racist.
 

drbretto

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Honest question, how do you feel about the Adam Jones stuff in comparison to how you feel about the street name?

The fact that current ownership allowed that conduct to continue in the park for years really pisses me off. I can deal with the fact that rich white guy who owned a plantation in the south in the 60's was a racist.
I was also bothered by that whole event, but I'm not sure how it applies here. It's an adjacent, but separate issue.

I don't live anywhere near Boston, so I don't have much of a dog in this fight beyond the basic support of the idea. I was responding to your assertion that it was trying to erase history. It's not. It's acknowledging the part of history people ignored for a long time. He doesn't need to have a street named after him to be remembered. No one is going back and deleting everyone's copy of Ken Burns' Baseball or anything.

But, why continue honoring the guy? Now that we have an ownership committed to winning, looking back at the Yawkey era, what are we celebrating?
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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I understand the history involved here, not a big fan of renaming a street as a way to disassociate current ownership with the history of the team. You can't just erase the fact that he owned the team regardless of what you call the street. Does anyone cringe when the walk down Yawkey Way or hear the word Yawkey? I've always felt the better approach is to embrace history and use it as a learning tool going forward. Maybe John Henry should have started ejecting fans who scream the word "nigger" at opposing center fielders a few weeks after he bought the team, that would have been more proactive than calling on the city to rename the street that is currently named for an owner in the HOF. But maybe he felt that a strict ejection policy would effect revenue, who knows.

Dude owned the team, he also had some issues, regardless of what JH does, he'll never be able to change the facts. I'd prefer he draw his line in the sand a different way.
1. Yes, I cringe. I'm sure a lot of others do, too. It's an ugly history.

2. This is the same argument for keeping up monuments of Confederate generals. I'm sorry, but it's nonsense. The idea that we have to leave monuments that honor shitty people who did shitty things in place in order to "learn" from our mistakes is horse crap. If we need public monuments to remind us of those mistakes (we don't... there are plenty of ways to preserve history that do not include honoring a racist), replace them with monuments to those who fought that bigotry or persevered despite it.

In the case of Yawkey Way, I agree that the timing from Henry is very suspect and that he's probably doing it for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't dissuade me in wanting to see a racist owner have one less thing in the city honoring him. Reverting to Jersey Way would be fine for me. Picking the name of an important or prominent black player (Pumpsie Green?) would be fine. Going with Jackie Robinson Way would be fine.

At the end of the day, I can acknowledge that the impetus for this is far from ideal, but I'd still like to see it changed because symbols mean something, and this will act a signal from the organization for people of color that they are willing to take steps (even small ones) in the right direction.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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So all bad things are equally bad? I'm glad our legal system doesn't agree.
Both are abhorrent and both do not belong in a progressive society. People doing either one need to be punished to the full extent of the law.
 

Reverend

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As a lifetime Red Sox fan who will probably never get back to Fenway I would nevertheless like to add my two cents to this discussion. Basically Tom Yawkey had a lot of money and did pretty much what he wanted with the team because of that fact. Should wealth negate stupidity and should some charitable acts make people overlook overt bigotry? I'll not throw in the implicit political comment but will hope that Yawkey's name is removed and replaced by that of a player who actually contributed something on the field which has provided so many thrills and heartaches. Papi would be fine with me but I would go with any player deemed worthy by those New Englanders who will actually tread the street with regularity.
This post sorta speaks to my thinking in that, with any monument, the after the fact "Should we just tear everything down then??" hand-wringing generally strikes me as a secondary concern to what we should be focusing on:

Why was the monument put up in the first place?

Yawkee was a special moment for me growing up in this regard. Specifically, it's when I as a young boy learned they'll name crap after you just for being rich. I was... not impressed.

And see, the thing is: I had been looking to be. I had expected to be impressed. I remember learning that Fenway Park was on Yawkee Way. Who was this Yawkee to have such an honor? He had owned the team! And they renamed the street for him! Surely he must be great.

So it was with great eagerness that this Red Sox obsessed child went and looked up this alleged titan Mr. Yawkee and found... like, nothing. I was utterly miffed for a bit--I mean, so what?

There really isn't a good reason to have that street named after Yawkee, except that someone decided to do it in the wake of his death. And this isn't a big deal per se... except that it seems incongruous for a city with so much to celebrate and a team that means so much to that city.

I mean, where does Yawkee really fit into the history of the city, of the team?

Some contributions have been raised, and some black marks on his legacy. But, seriously, when I look at the history of the Red Sox's return to glory, the Yawkees don't occupy a particularly noble position. Like, I see years and years of meh management, a long time discussion of moving the team out of the cathedral it plays in, and hiring practices that hurt both the quality of the on-field team as well as the reputation of the city that there is reason to believe affected the competitiveness of the city's other teams.

Then a new ownership group comes in, throws money behind the team, applies science to roster construction, revitalizes Fenway F@*#ing Park, makes inroads with the long neglected city communities including people of color, and brought how three championships.

For anyone intrigued by the exorcism of curses and how they pertain to the Boston Red Sox, I would suggest it wasn't really about the sale of the Babe, eh?

Boston has much to celebrate. The Red Sox has much to celebrate. I just don't see how Yawkee rates--we can do better; indeed, we should have done better in the first place. But hey, we can learn--that's fine too.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Do you also cringe when you hear Washington, Jefferson and Madison?
Ron Washington? Why? He never managed the Red Sox.
Reggie Jefferson? The Hit Cat? He was great. For a half year, every year he was here.
Madison Bumgarner? I guess, but that's because he submarined my fantasy team this year with his injury.

So I'm not entirely sure I get your question.
 

Reverend

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Ron Washington? Why? He never managed the Red Sox.
Reggie Jefferson? The Hit Cat? He was great. For a half year, every year he was here.
Madison Bumgarner? I guess, but that's because he submarined my fantasy team this year with his injury.

So I'm not entirely sure I get your question.
Dammit, man--faster and better. /Hat tip.
 

Titans Bastard

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You can't just erase the fact that he owned the team regardless of what you call the street.
The history of Yawkey's ownership exists and will be remembered no matter what the street is called. The question is whether we want to honor that history by naming something in the public square after that history or whether we do not.

The idea that the memory or forgetting of history is determined by the presence of street names and statues that honor parts of history is simply wrong.
 

Max Power

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A historical figure was a flawed man who did great things for the city, and had his own personal deamons that while common at the time make him viewed as a monster today. Let's not overlook the approximately 450 million dollars the Yawkey foundation has provided to the poor, sick, and of course young athletes in Boston, the vast majority of those who benefited of course being minorities.
The Yawkey name is still all over the medical centers in the area they gave money to. Nobody's going to forget their philanthropic work. That doesn't mean the team that Tom made considerably worse for racist reasons needs to keep honoring him with their address.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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If they're trying to move away from naming the street after bigots, I'd avoid anything that includes Schilling, even tangentially.
That's sad. I gave away a nice framed item of the 2004 and 2007 teams respectively after Schill came out as a confirmed bigot. Such a great joy to watch work but that I guess doesn't mean he's a good person. It just takes away from the 04 and 07 teams. I was also disheartened to find out Papelbon shared his same views as a supporter of 45.
 

Rudi Fingers

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I think the Red Sox fans should get the honor. Stealing from the old Channel 38 award (and the Seahawks' "12th man" concept), how about "10th Player Parkway"?

Snod said:
Picking the name of an important or prominent black player (Pumpsie Green?) would be fine.
I agree, but I personally think the Sox should honor Pumpsie by naming the "Pumpsie Green Monster" after him. Fits right in across from the Pesky Pole, Erase the Yawkey Morse Code on the scoreboard, and it feels even better.
 

YTF

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I think the Red Sox fans should get the honor. Stealing from the old Channel 38 award (and the Seahawks' "12th man" concept), how about "10th Player Parkway"?



I agree, but I personally think the Sox should honor Pumpsie by naming the "Pumpsie Green Monster" after him. Fits right in across from the Pesky Pole, Erase the Yawkey Morse Code on the scoreboard, and it feels even better.

I'm guessing this is tongue in cheek, but if not ........See here is where I draw the line. The Morse code has nothing to do with this. It is inside Fenway Park, not on a public street and honestly is only a subtle nod to the Tom and Jean Yawkey. The Peskey Pole was dubbed that for a reason. I'm not 100% sure there is an official designation for the pole but to go with Pumpsie Green Monster is a bit of a knee jerk over reaction.
 

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The money did end up doing a whole lot of good, but I'm not sure Tom was responsible for that. He died and left the team to Jean, she died and left it to the trust and the trust sold it and the folks running the trust (was it John Harrington?) were the ones who determined where the money should go. So definitely a whole lot of good came out of Yawkey's ownership of the Red Sox, but not necessarily anything he would have expected or recommended.
It was specified in Jean Yawkey's will that any money from the trust must go charity, specifically healthcare and educational institutions.