Red Sox Spring training thread

glasspusher

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mauidano said:
He's that guy.  As competitive as they come, intense. He's been a mentor to my nephew who plays college baseball as well.  Obviously I'm biased and want to continue to see him do well on my favorite team. However the old adage, may the best man win.
 
That's great to hear. I've liked him since he was on the Phillies.
 

koufax32

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Coachster said:
Send him to AAA and promote him when, and if, he proves he can hit at all.
Send him to AAA, let him rot there while he proves completely healthy, have him as your 1B '16-'18 for an under market deal so resources can go elsewhere.
 

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bosox1025 said:
With Victorino deciding to abandon hitting LH they need Nava more than ever. I'd hate to see them move Craig for pennies on the dollar -- going to be some tough decisions in the next 10 days.
 
I'm thinking about 2016...playing with myself with an assumption that no major moves are made. Assuming this is Ortiz' last year (as rumored), and no re-signing of Napoli or Victorino, the Red Sox shed a critical $45M and:
 
Have an outfield (left to right) of: Betts - Bradley - Castillo (the most athletic outfield in baseball)
An infield of (3rd to 1st): Sandoval - Bogaerts - Pedroia - Craig
Catcher: Swihart
DH: Ramirez
 
Still a little too right-handed, but more than serviceable with a lineup along the lines of: Betts - Castillo - Pedroia - Sandoval - Ramirez - Craig - Swihart - Bogaerts - Bradley
 
Which is a long-winded way of implying that Craig, if healthy, is a good option to have going forward, particularly at his price. Otherwise it's either a minor leaguer or an inexpensive trade that handles 1st. Without a Craig, either Ramirez stays in the outfield (in lieu of Bradley) or moves to 1B...or Sandoval moves to 1st, Bogaerts to 3rd and Marerro at SS. I don't like the looks of those options.
 
Keep Craig unless he breaks in half.
 

Plympton91

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Where is this rumor that this will be Ortiz's last season?

He has a guaranteed $16 million on the table for 2016, and will likely finish this season within 10 HR's of 500 for his career.

There is no way he is retiring after this season.
 

glasspusher

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Plympton91 said:
Where is this rumor that this will be Ortiz's last season?

He has a guaranteed $16 million on the table for 2016, and will likely finish this season within 10 HR's of 500 for his career.

There is no way he is retiring after this season.
 
The end usually comes fast for the big guys. I'm thinking Frank Thomas. I don't know. Tizzle has come back from the dead before...
 

LahoudOrBillyC

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Plympton91 said:
Where is this rumor that this will be Ortiz's last season?

He has a guaranteed $16 million on the table for 2016, and will likely finish this season within 10 HR's of 500 for his career.

There is no way he is retiring after this season.
 
Agreed.  There is at least a 99% chance that Ortiz is on the 2016 Red Sox. 
 

Rasputin

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LahoudOrBillyC said:
 
Agreed.  There is at least a 99% chance that Ortiz is on the 2016 Red Sox. 
It is much lower than that. Much, much lower. There's a greater than 1% chance he's physically unable to play in 2016.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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bosox1025 said:
With Victorino deciding to abandon hitting LH they need Nava more than ever. 
 
This doesn't compute. If Victorino is abandoning hitting LH it's because he's not actually better vs. RHP that way*, so that doesn't really change anything. We may indeed be weak vs. RHP and therefore need Nava, but Victorino's decision about which side of the plate to be weak vs. RHP from doesn't affect that.
 
*OK, he says he's abandoning hitting LH in this instance because it's hurting him. But he abandoned it in 2013 because it wasn't working, and there's no significant difference in his career splits hitting vs. RHP from the left or right side.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Savin Hillbilly said:
 
This doesn't compute. If Victorino is abandoning hitting LH it's because he's not actually better vs. RHP that way*, so that doesn't really change anything. We may indeed be weak vs. RHP and therefore need Nava, but Victorino's decision about which side of the plate to be weak vs. RHP from doesn't affect that.
 
*OK, he says he's abandoning hitting LH in this instance because it's hurting him. But he abandoned it in 2013 because it wasn't working, and there's no significant difference in his career splits hitting vs. RHP from the left or right side.
I seem to recall Victorino stopped hitting lefthanded in 2013 because of injury as well. Yeah, he was struggling, but the root cause was his hamstring injury. I think that's why he didn't stick with the no-switch-hit thing once last season began.
 

Plympton91

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
I seem to recall Victorino stopped hitting lefthanded in 2013 because of injury as well. Yeah, he was struggling, but the root cause was his hamstring injury. I think that's why he didn't stick with the no-switch-hit thing once last season began.
That was my recollection as well, and I wouldn't put too much stock in his RHH vs. RHP stats at this point. There was no scouting book on him hitting righthanded vs. righthanders, as that builds up, teams will exploit the weaknesses and he'll be about as good against righties as Trot Nixon was vs. lefties.

Until Castillo shows he's ready, a platoon of Nava and Victorino seems like a good combination, with Vic coming in defensively in late innings and maybe picking up extra playing time against righthanders he can handle in parks with big right fields.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
You're right, my bad, Victorino did give injury as his explanation for the decision in 2013 as well. 
 
But still, he has only once (2011) been a significantly above-average hitter from the left side, and has usually been below average, with sOPSs ranging in the 80s and 90s. That's not a guy you were ever counting on to provide offensive strength as a LHH, so his decision not to bat lefty really shouldn't have a significant impact on Nava's status.
 

In my lifetime

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I know I shouldn't take board comments to heart, but just want to point out that I was criticized by several for reading too much into Victorino's self-reported generalized soreness (he attributed to his run from 1st to third 2 weeks ago) when I suggested "that I don't believe for a second that this is just generalized "soreness" as described.  I would guess that he felt some significant tightness and maybe a slight hamstring pull."
 
And yesterday from Browne's article:
 
"He's going to hit from the right side exclusively," said Farrell. "I think with all the work he's been doing in the cage swinging left-handed, some of the tightness that he has, [he] felt it was as a result of the left-handed swing. That gets alleviated [swinging right-handed] and I think that has a chance to free up his mind, as well. That's the plan going forward with him -- he's going to hit right-handed."
 
 
Athletes who are in shape, usually do not have generalized soreness from a 1st to third run. However, it would not be uncommon for a player who has experienced a half a dozen episodes of hamstring pulls over 2-3 years to feel tightness or a minor pull when trying to run at 100% for even fairly short distances.  This is the reason I was concerned when Victorino reported his soreness and felt that it was more likely to be tightness.  I am a physician (however not an orthopedist) and listen to specific descriptions of symptoms for any complaint. The description of normal muscle soreness in an athlete would not typically be of concern, however, tightness is of concern in a player with Victorino's history.   
 

E5 Yaz

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FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Good morning from the Fort, where the Boston Red Sox engaged in an intramural competition as spirited as anything that has taken place here all spring.
The event: An obstacle-course relay race for the position players, which included the fireman’s carry (sandbag over the shoulder), placing a rubber ball on three cones and making sure it stayed on top, ladder run, knocking a water bottle off its stand with a throw, transferring weighted balance balls from one side to the other, clearing a set of hurdles and a final ladder run.
The stakes: Loser has to make the 2 1/2-hour bus trip to Jupiter on Tuesday.
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/42344/sox-duel-in-relay-race-to-avoid-long-bus-ride
 
These guys are having fun this year
 
https://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/579655043508518912
 

soxhop411

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@GordonEdes: Buchholz intrasquad tuneup: 5 no-hit innings, 10 K’s, 1 B. 79 pitches.
 

koufax32

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Victorino looking like he's pulling a hammy while cheering on a focused Betts? This is like rain on your wedding day.
 

glennhoffmania

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I think he was just really excited about not having to sit on a bus for 2.5 hours.  His back couldn't handle that.
 

Manramsclan

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glennhoffmania said:
I think he was just really excited about not having to sit on a bus for 2.5 hours.  His back couldn't handle that.
 
Plus, he found a killer Mah Jong game with his new friends back in the Fort. 
 
koufax32 said:
Victorino looking like he's pulling a hammy while cheering on a focused Betts? This is like rain on your wedding day.
 
Which is not ironic.
 
Everyone is gushing about Rusney Castillo. Has anyone seen highlights or AB's? Early impressions?
 

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Manramsclan said:
 
Everyone is gushing about Rusney Castillo. Has anyone seen highlights or AB's? Early impressions?
Very athletic. Looks like he had what it takes to play center. Speed, quickness. Maybe a little more power than Mookie.

If, in a year or two, Hanley moved to first or DH, and we go with an outfield of Castillo, Bradley, and Betts, well have the best defensive outfield regardless of who plays where.
 

Darnell's Son

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soxhop411 said:
RT @JMastrodonato Hanley Ramirez said Mookie Betts reminds him of a young Hanley, circa 2006.
Very humble.
 
"Hey, you who that kid who is absolutely crushing the baseball and is awesome? He reminds me of me, cuz you know...I'm awesome."
 
I'm, of course, happy Hanley realizes he's awesome, and hope that he lives up to his last name at his position.
 

Manramsclan

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Rasputin said:
Very athletic. Looks like he had what it takes to play center. Speed, quickness. Maybe a little more power than Mookie.

If, in a year or two, Hanley moved to first or DH, and we go with an outfield of Castillo, Bradley, and Betts, well have the best defensive outfield regardless of who plays where.
 
Music to my ears. If the OF can be productive offensively in the corners AND be good defensively, I think that makes a nice space for Bradley to be he who was last year. If he improves offensively, then great, but if he doesn't he would still be a major asset surrounded by those two guys. Provided that Betts and Castillo produce for a full season at the level they have hinted at in small stints.
 

Rasputin

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Manramsclan said:
 
Music to my ears. If the OF can be productive offensively in the corners AND be good defensively, I think that makes a nice space for Bradley to be he who was last year. If he improves offensively, then great, but if he doesn't he would still be a major asset surrounded by those two guys. Provided that Betts and Castillo produce for a full season at the level they have hinted at in small stints.
I think we're going to have arguments over whether they're the best outfield in the game.
 

koufax32

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Manramsclan said:
Plus, he found a killer Mah Jong game with his new friends back in the Fort. 
 

 
Which is not ironic.
 
Everyone is gushing about Rusney Castillo. Has anyone seen highlights or AB's? Early impressions?
That's the...forget it.

It really is nice that we have multiple threads with varying degrees of hand wringing about how to cram all of this talent onto the field at the same time.
 

jimbobim

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More comforting things from HanRam ... 
 
From Mr.Britton over at Projo
 
FORT MYERS, Fla. — The Red Sox saw the real Hanley Ramirez at the plate on Sunday.
For much of spring training, Ramirez has used his in-game plate appearances to work on his mechanics at the plate — on staying back, on tracking pitches deep into the zone. The result has been a lot of ground balls to second base. This was encouraging to Ramirez.
"I've been feeling comfortable with what I've been doing to get ready. I've been trying to slow my swing down and hit a hard ground ball to second. I wasn’t trying to get hits," he said. "This is what we use spring for."
Ramirez must have had enough of grounding out to second. On Sunday, he pummeled his first home run of the spring to center field — a three-run shot that registered as one of the longest blasts of the spring. In his next at-bat, he lined a two-run single clear up the middle. His five RBIs propelled the Red Sox to a 7-6 win over the Phillies.
 

Sampo Gida

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Plympton91 said:
Where is this rumor that this will be Ortiz's last season?

He has a guaranteed $16 million on the table for 2016, and will likely finish this season within 10 HR's of 500 for his career.

There is no way he is retiring after this season.
 
He is not guaranteed anything. Club option that starts at 10 million and could be 16 million if he reaches 600 PA and passes a physical.
 
It probably started with Papi not ruling out retirement next year wanting to see how he fels after this year, which could be Papi's way of letting the Red Sox know he may be wanting a better deal for 2016  and beyond
 

Plympton91

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Sampo Gida said:
 
He is not guaranteed anything. Club option that starts at 10 million and could be 16 million if he reaches 600 PA and passes a physical.
 
It probably started with Papi not ruling out retirement next year wanting to see how he fels after this year, which could be Papi's way of letting the Red Sox know he may be wanting a better deal for 2016  and beyond
I definitely misremembered that he had a guaranteed contract for 2016. According to NESN, in 2016 it is a vesting option that vests at $11 million for 425 plate appearances, and increases to $16 million at 600 plate appearances. That's not a herculean task at all. In 2017, it is a straight club option, but with the same escalation in value for additional plate appearances in 2016.

http://nesn.com/2014/03/david-ortiz-contract-details-2016-2017-options-explained/
 

soxhop411

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@bradfo: Masterson gives up four runs on four hits in first inning in Single A game. 2 singles, double, HBP, pitcher throwing error. 27 pitches
 

soxhop411

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@bradfo: Looks like Masterson is done after 80 pitches, 5 innings. After bad first inning was in control
 

Byrdbrain

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I think he has taken a while in each game to get up above 90 though, he started out the game at 86 to 88 a week and half or so ago.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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bosox1025 said:
With Victorino deciding to abandon hitting LH they need Nava more than ever. I'd hate to see them move Craig for pennies on the dollar -- going to be some tough decisions in the next 10 days.
With Ortiz perhaps hanging it up in the next year or two and Napoli becoming an impending free agent you cannot move Craig for pennies on the dollar. Or else you're throwing all of your eggs in the Travis Shaw basket, unless you want to move Panda there after a year. I think Nava is gone if Castillo makes the roster. He could bring back a decent return. Perhaps another prospect or two. There just isn't enough room and Craig looks healthy. Then again you could always ask Craig to go to AAA.
 

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Tyrone Biggums said:
With Ortiz perhaps hanging it up in the next year or two and Napoli becoming an impending free agent you cannot move Craig for pennies on the dollar. Or else you're throwing all of your eggs in the Travis Shaw basket, unless you want to move Panda there after a year. I think Nava is gone if Castillo makes the roster. He could bring back a decent return. Perhaps another prospect or two. There just isn't enough room and Craig looks healthy. Then again you could always ask Craig to go to AAA.
No need to ask Craig to do anything. If they decide sending him down is the best option, they can just do it.
 

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So, Kelly hasn't pitched in a major league game since he got hurt. If he starts the season on the DL, they could carry an extra position player until they need a 5th starter, then maybe play option roulette with assorted pitchers until a position player provides a reason to option him or put him on the DL.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
No need to ask Craig to do anything. If they decide sending him down is the best option, they can just do it.
I could be wrong. I know he has two options left but I thought they needed to get his consent due to service time.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Tyrone Biggums said:
I could be wrong. I know he has two options left but I thought they needed to get his consent due to service time.
 
Players 3 or more years removed from their big league debut must pass through optional assignment waivers (Nava had to do this last year), but need at least 5 years of service time before their consent is required.  Craig has 4 years of service time accrued.
 

ivanvamp

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It's hard to read too much into spring training, but are there any players that are standing out as being particularly good or bad?
 
Good:
- Betts (incredible)
- JBJ
- Napoli
- Shaw
- Rodriguez
- Buchholz
- Porcello
 
Bad:
- Masterson
- Owens
- Kelly
- Bogaerts
- Vazquez (hitting)
 
 
Anyone else standing out one way or the other?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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ivanvamp said:
It's hard to read too much into spring training, but are there any players that are standing out as being particularly good or bad?
 
Bad:
- Masterson
- Owens
- Kelly
- Bogaerts
- Vazquez (hitting)
 
 
Anyone else standing out one way or the other?
 
Bogaerts has not been "bad".  Kelly and Vazquez have been injured.  Masterson's had a couple bad innings but hasn't been horrible overall.
 

ivanvamp

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
Bogaerts has not been "bad".  Kelly and Vazquez have been injured.  Masterson's had a couple bad innings but hasn't been horrible overall.
 
Ok, I guess I'm just looking at the spring stats.  I appreciate the clarification.
 

phenweigh

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I think the most important thing with Masterson is that he's healthy.  I'm feeling a little bit better about the Sox signing him, but he's still at the top of my list for starting pitcher most likely to fail.  Feeling healthy is one thing ... returning to form is another.
 

Plympton91

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Tyrone Biggums said:
With Ortiz perhaps hanging it up in the next year or two and Napoli becoming an impending free agent you cannot move Craig for pennies on the dollar. Or else you're throwing all of your eggs in the Travis Shaw basket, unless you want to move Panda there after a year. I think Nava is gone if Castillo makes the roster. He could bring back a decent return. Perhaps another prospect or two. There just isn't enough room and Craig looks healthy. Then again you could always ask Craig to go to AAA.
Why can't they resign Napoli to another short term deal? Or make a trade, or sign someone else that gets DFA'ed (bring back Mike Carp, for instance). How quickly will Moncada be ready to show a return on his $60 million investment, and where does he play when he is? There seems to be a consensus that Sam Travis could come quickly as well.

They're spending a shit-ton of money to win in 2015, and it's the first and likely best year of the contracts to Ramirez and Sandoval; eventually, they've got to put the best team out there, and I'm not sure how Craig gets enough at bats to reestablish his trade value or establish enough confidence that he should be handed first base for 2016 under that constraint.
 
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This from ESPNBoston.com, Rick Weber: Betts went 1-for-2 with a double, a walk and an RBI, raising his average to .472. Hes slugging .871 and has seven doubles, more than twice as many as anybody else on the team. An odd stat: He still hasnt walked in 36 plate appearances.

That IS an odd stat! He had a double, a WALK and an RBI and "still hasn't walked in 36 plate appearances."
 

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Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
This from ESPNBoston.com, Rick Weber: Betts went 1-for-2 with a double, a walk and an RBI, raising his average to .472. Hes slugging .871 and has seven doubles, more than twice as many as anybody else on the team. An odd stat: He still hasnt walked in 36 plate appearances.
 
Schrödinger's Walk?
 
7 doubles in 36 plate appearances is insane. Not sustainable, of course, but insane. Can we please start the season before he cools off?
 
Speaking of walks, best news about Xander's spring line is that he has 6 walks and just 5 Ks in 39 PA. I'm not optimistic enough to imagine that he'll have a <1 K/BB in the regular season, but it's still encouraging. And if I'm doing the math right, his slash after today's game is .250/.359/.469. Again, possibly a shade too high a bar to set for 2015, but hopefully it's a nice preview of coming attractions.