Knowing that Boston can be a pressure cooker, maybe they felt he could deal better with the psychological load if he knew he had an early exit. Other than that, no idea.
Red Sox sign David Price
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Maybe they see the first couple years of the contract as a good investment and the last couple years as the price of business. Give the guy an opt out so you can get out of the "price of business" years on the contract. Better to let a guy go a year too earlier than be stuck with him 4 years too late. Kinda like if the Yankees actually let CC and Arod go, but why are we even having this discussion again?
Since Price made the mechanical adjustment in his windup referred to above, he's gone 34.1 IP with a 2.62 ERA, a 31/10 K/BB ratio, and has allowed an OPS against of only 647.
Who's to say Farrell isn't just a figurehead, and Pedey the power behind the throne. Maybe he wasn't spending all those hours in the managers office with Tito just playing cribbage, but telling him what that night's lineup was going to be.
So it is Pedroia's fault the pitching sucks? If he is the "real " manager do we blame him for everything, or just gush fanboy credit on the good things? Ground rules please.
When a player is struggling and there are reports he suggests an adjustment for the struggling player, followed by the player making that adjustment, and the struggling player improves, we give Pedroia credit.
But how exactly do we split the blame between Dustin Pedroia and the pitching coach? 80/20? 85/15? 87.5/12.5?
What about Blake Swihart? His catching defense was so terrible that it traumatized the pitchers into continuing to pitch badly even after he stopped catching them. /joke
I'm pretty sure Price will be fine. His ERA is still way worse than his peripherals, and he has one of the lowest LOB% among starters in the league. Hopefully that'll even out over the rest of the season.
I'm pretty sure Price will be fine. His ERA is still way worse than his peripherals, and he has one of the lowest LOB% among starters in the league. Hopefully that'll even out over the rest of the season.
I know, so tired of the board being flooded by "EXTEND FARRELL V3.0" threads that mysteriously go unposted in when they lose 4 of 5.
Price since the leg kick adjustment:
May 12 vs Hou: 6.2 ip, 6 h, 1 r, 1 er, 1 bb, 12 k
May 18 at KC: 7.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 1 bb, 5 k
May 24 vs Col: 7.0 ip, 5 h, 3 r, 3 er, 1 bb, 6 k
May 29 at Tor: 6.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 3 bb, 3 k
Jun 3 vs Tor: 7.0 ip, 6 h, 3 r, 2 er, 4 bb, 5 k
Jun 8 at SF: 8.0 ip, 3 h, 2 r, 2 er, 2 bb, 7 k
That's 6 starts, 6 quality starts.
TOT: 42.1 ip, 30 h, 13 r, 12 er, 12 bb, 38 k, 2.55 era, 0.99 whip, 8.1 k/9
The Sox have gone 4-2 in those starts. In the two losses, they scored a combined 3 runs (the last two games, losing 5-2 and 2-1).
May 12 vs Hou: 6.2 ip, 6 h, 1 r, 1 er, 1 bb, 12 k
May 18 at KC: 7.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 1 bb, 5 k
May 24 vs Col: 7.0 ip, 5 h, 3 r, 3 er, 1 bb, 6 k
May 29 at Tor: 6.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 3 bb, 3 k
Jun 3 vs Tor: 7.0 ip, 6 h, 3 r, 2 er, 4 bb, 5 k
Jun 8 at SF: 8.0 ip, 3 h, 2 r, 2 er, 2 bb, 7 k
That's 6 starts, 6 quality starts.
TOT: 42.1 ip, 30 h, 13 r, 12 er, 12 bb, 38 k, 2.55 era, 0.99 whip, 8.1 k/9
The Sox have gone 4-2 in those starts. In the two losses, they scored a combined 3 runs (the last two games, losing 5-2 and 2-1).
On the other hand, I wonder how much of the success is due to BABIP. During those 6 starts his BABIP is .222. For the year it is a very normal .302. So if we see some BABIP regression then his numbers will get worse, again.
Yeah, good question.
First 7 games: 1.32 whip, 2.61 bb/9, .383 BABIP, .432 slg, 29% LD, 11.5 k/9
Last 6 games: 0.99 whip, 2.55 bb/9, .222 BABIP, .362 slg, 23% LD, 8.1 k/9
So his walk rate is almost identical. His k/9 rate has dropped. But he's allowing a lot fewer hits, and a much lower slugging percentage. He's also giving up much softer contact, allowing 23% line drives versus 29% in his first 7 games. He's also inducing a higher percentage of ground balls as well.
Is it all statistical noise? Or is this pretty much normal David Price? Going into this season, here were his career rates in these categories:
WHIP: 1.13
BB/9: 2.3
BABIP: .288
SLG: .359
LD: 21%
K/9: 8.6
So the last six games represent numbers much more in line with his entire career numbers before the start of this season. BABIP should come up a little (and with it, his WHIP, and probably his ERA), but everything else is pretty much right in the ballpark.
So I think what we're seeing from him now is basically the pitcher he is, and I think it should give us confidence moving forward that Price has righted his ship and is what we hoped he would be when they signed him.
I'm still a bit concerned that, results not withstanding, his fastball velocity is currently an all-time low and about 1.5mph off from last year. According to Fangraphs his FB is a negative runs above average pitch this season after registering a career high +19.7 RAA last season.
A FB pitcher with a middling FB does not equal a #1 starter.
Either he picks up a couple ticks on the FB or I think we will see some further regression. He doesn't have the secondary offerings to compensate if teams stop fearing his FB.
A FB pitcher with a middling FB does not equal a #1 starter.
Either he picks up a couple ticks on the FB or I think we will see some further regression. He doesn't have the secondary offerings to compensate if teams stop fearing his FB.
Here's the chart per FG. Definitely down, though better in the last month and nearly in line with past seasons:
I was under the impression that Price's FB was such a great pitch primarily due to his ability to locate finely. He's never been a guy I recall being talked about as a "flamethrower" or anything.
If you were to fit a trendline to each of those seasons, it would have a gentle positive slope.
I dozed off a bit during the game last night - but was awake for the 7th inning when he threw a bunch of pitches (was surprised he went back out for the 8th after laboring through the 7th). I noticed he did not have his hands going up with his leg kick like he did in the immediate aftermath of Pedroia's discovery. I've noticed a few other times where this has happened for an inning or two - so the switch back to the old mechanics may well still be a bit of a work in progress.
Yeah, which makes me wonder, is it just temperature? Well, and the mechanical issue he seems to have corrected for the first part of '16. I think it's premature to say "his velocity is down" in some general way, i.e. related to his arm's condition. Even last night's start, which shows a drop in average velocity, came in cold weather conditions.
I've had to rely on MLB game cast quite a bit this season and he seems to be relying on the cutter quite a bit. Did he feature this pitch much in Tampa? This reminds me of Lester when he started using the cutter, which would hopefully point to improvement in future seasons.
Since making the mechanical adjustment, Price has gone 50.1 IP over 7 starts with a 2.68 ERA, .612 OPS allowed. and a 49/12 K/BB ratio.
He was tremendous last night. Got hurt by 2 long balls, but one of them was the ultra-cheap dong around the RF pole. He was dominant. Too bad Tillman was equally dominant or even a tad better.
He was tremendous last night. Got hurt by 2 long balls, but one of them was the ultra-cheap dong around the RF pole. He was dominant. Too bad Tillman was equally dominant or even a tad better.
Totally agree with this. In his 3 June starts Price has gone at least 7 innings and allowed 2, 2, and 3 ER (2.74 ERA, 23/6 K/BB). That's great.
The problem is that the Sox have scored a total of 5 runs in those 3 games. Doubt that will continue.
To follow up on SJK, here's Price's game log (I posted it after his last start too, but updated it after last night's game) since that mechanical adjustment:
May 12 vs Hou: 6.2 ip, 6 h, 1 r, 1 er, 1 bb, 12 k
May 18 at KC: 7.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 1 bb, 5 k
May 24 vs Col: 7.0 ip, 5 h, 3 r, 3 er, 1 bb, 6 k
May 29 at Tor: 6.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 3 bb, 3 k
Jun 3 vs Tor: 7.0 ip, 6 h, 3 r, 2 er, 4 bb, 5 k
Jun 8 at SF: 8.0 ip, 3 h, 2 r, 2 er, 2 bb, 7 k
Jun 14 vs Bal: 8.0 ip, 5 h, 3 r, 3 er, 0 bb, 11 k
I mean, I'm sorry, but that absolutely screams "Ace!". That's nearly 7.1 ip per start. Seven straight excellent starts against good opposition. Every one of those teams, except Colorado, is good. 0.93 whip, 8.8 k/9, is pretty impressive. Since the adjustment, the guy has been tremendous. In the 3 losses in those 7 games, the Sox have scored a grand total of 5 runs.
May 12 vs Hou: 6.2 ip, 6 h, 1 r, 1 er, 1 bb, 12 k
May 18 at KC: 7.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 1 bb, 5 k
May 24 vs Col: 7.0 ip, 5 h, 3 r, 3 er, 1 bb, 6 k
May 29 at Tor: 6.1 ip, 5 h, 2 r, 2 er, 3 bb, 3 k
Jun 3 vs Tor: 7.0 ip, 6 h, 3 r, 2 er, 4 bb, 5 k
Jun 8 at SF: 8.0 ip, 3 h, 2 r, 2 er, 2 bb, 7 k
Jun 14 vs Bal: 8.0 ip, 5 h, 3 r, 3 er, 0 bb, 11 k
I mean, I'm sorry, but that absolutely screams "Ace!". That's nearly 7.1 ip per start. Seven straight excellent starts against good opposition. Every one of those teams, except Colorado, is good. 0.93 whip, 8.8 k/9, is pretty impressive. Since the adjustment, the guy has been tremendous. In the 3 losses in those 7 games, the Sox have scored a grand total of 5 runs.
Aces lose to aces sometimes. It is what it is. I expect him to continue to pitch this well for the rest of the season, and I expect he'll win more than he'll lose.
And even Colorado has one of the best offenses in baseball (not just at home -- 11th in runs scored on the road).
As you say, he has been tremendous.
Right. Price's opposing SPs in those starts have been: Keuchel, Volquez, De La Rosa, Dickey, Dickey again, Bumgarner, Tillman.
Not all aces, but that would be a pretty damn good starting rotation (De La Rosa to the pen as swingman).
But he isn't even acting on the "mechanical adjustment" anymore. He looked pretty much identical last night to the guy who started the season - low hands, low leg kick. The adjustment is really just a narrative. The regression is probably the more accurate story.
I don't know. We were talking about it in the game thread last night, but to me, I'm seeing three distinct phases--
1. high hands, low leg kick
2. high hands, high leg kick
3. low hands, high leg kick
I think the idea initially was that he usually brought his legs up with his hands "as if tied on a string." His leg wasn't coming up to a 90 degree angle with his torso, but his hands were still coming up. In phase two he went back to that, and now it seems since the SF start he's still getting that leg up (the important part, according to him, in generating power), but his hands are hanging back down in the delivery.
More than glad to be proven wrong (as I said in the game thread, I know nothing about pitch mechanics) but I think the initial tying of the hands and the leg in the story has people assuming the hands were as important as the leg, which doesn't seem to be the case.
1. high hands, low leg kick
2. high hands, high leg kick
3. low hands, high leg kick
I think the idea initially was that he usually brought his legs up with his hands "as if tied on a string." His leg wasn't coming up to a 90 degree angle with his torso, but his hands were still coming up. In phase two he went back to that, and now it seems since the SF start he's still getting that leg up (the important part, according to him, in generating power), but his hands are hanging back down in the delivery.
More than glad to be proven wrong (as I said in the game thread, I know nothing about pitch mechanics) but I think the initial tying of the hands and the leg in the story has people assuming the hands were as important as the leg, which doesn't seem to be the case.
Any thoughts on Schilling's recent comments that we are not seeing the David Price that the Red Sox paid $217 million for? The Cliff Notes are as follows:
1. As Price ages, his velocity will naturally decline, a process that has apparently already begun
2. Price's mechanics put a lot of strain on his arm
3. Price's secondary pitches are far from elite
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2016/06/15/curt-schilling-on-dc-this-is-not-the-david-price-they-paid-217-million-to-get/
1. As Price ages, his velocity will naturally decline, a process that has apparently already begun
2. Price's mechanics put a lot of strain on his arm
3. Price's secondary pitches are far from elite
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2016/06/15/curt-schilling-on-dc-this-is-not-the-david-price-they-paid-217-million-to-get/
I mean the velocity thing I understand, the mechanics I think is extremely debatable, and Price's change up is a fantastic pitch. His sitrkeout numbers are still elite. I think this is a lot of over reaction to a strange, unlucky, start of the season.
His change up is rated as the 5th best change up in the game among starters according to fangraph, tied with a guy named Johnny Cueto.
His change up isn't "decent." That being said, the velocity deal is absolutely a concern, he's lost a 1.4 MPH since last year. That being said, it's trending in the right direction and his velocity tends to go up as the season progresses.
Velocity drop isn't bad if Price continues in the coming years to pitch like he did in his mid 20s. If he adjusts his approach and uses his secondary pitches more to set up his fastball like other elite pitchers that have aged he will be fine.
Yea, for someone who has lost his fastball and has average secondary offerings, it's pretty amazing he is leading the league in strikeouts....
Are MPH splits by home vs. away available for this season and previous ones? I'm curious about the "hotness" of the Fenway gun vs. Tampa Bay's.
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Rob Bradford @bradfo 2h2 hours ago
Price will have pitched eight innings in each of his last three starts, and now has a 2.47 ERA over his previous eight outings
Price will have pitched eight innings in each of his last three starts, and now has a 2.47 ERA over his previous eight outings
After today's game, David Price has now given up at least one home run in nine consecutive starts. This is by far the longest such streak in his career. His previous high was 5 straight games in 2014.
It's really strange. I watched the guy today and I thought his stuff was as good as it's been this year and pretty dynamic in general. Just seems like the vast majority of missed location pitches were hit very hard. He isn't getting away with mistakes, and it's not just a "lack of velocity" thing anymore.
I'm baffled by it really.
I'm baffled by it really.
HR/G in the AL is the highest its been since 1996, so that might explain it. Might be a victim of a juiced ball. Cant get away from the mistakes he used to make over the middle of the plate because FB are turned into HR's more often. Last time he had a Hr/9 this hgh was his rookie season where he put up a 4.49 ERA. Of course, the strike zone was smaller then so his K/9 was not as high and he walked more guys, so his FIP was higher than this year
In today's 108 Stitches, Speier talks about Price and his fastball:
"His struggles mostly come down to this: Price’s fastball is getting slaughtered when it’s over the plate.
Already, he’s allowed 10 homers on his fastball this year, on pace to yield a career-high 20 long balls on the pitch. In a vacuum, that would be an alarming mark, yet it becomes even more disconcerting given that the lefthander is throwing fastballs with the lowest frequency of his career, having used the pitch a career-low 48.6 percent of the time, significantly down from last year’s prior career-low of 53.4 percent.
According to data from BrooksBaseball.net, the fastballs he’s throwing are getting pummeled, as evidenced by a .480 slugging mark against four- and two-seam fastballs (not including Wednesday’s game) – up from a prior career average of .359, and more than 100 points higher than any prior single-season slugging mark against his signature heater.
Manager John Farrell suggested that perhaps Price was throwing too many pitches in the strike zone, though according to Fangraphs, he’s actually throwing 47.6 percent of his pitches in the strike zone – down from 48.7 percent in 2015. But when batters are making contact against his pitches in the strike zone, they’re hitting them harder than ever."
"His struggles mostly come down to this: Price’s fastball is getting slaughtered when it’s over the plate.
Already, he’s allowed 10 homers on his fastball this year, on pace to yield a career-high 20 long balls on the pitch. In a vacuum, that would be an alarming mark, yet it becomes even more disconcerting given that the lefthander is throwing fastballs with the lowest frequency of his career, having used the pitch a career-low 48.6 percent of the time, significantly down from last year’s prior career-low of 53.4 percent.
According to data from BrooksBaseball.net, the fastballs he’s throwing are getting pummeled, as evidenced by a .480 slugging mark against four- and two-seam fastballs (not including Wednesday’s game) – up from a prior career average of .359, and more than 100 points higher than any prior single-season slugging mark against his signature heater.
Manager John Farrell suggested that perhaps Price was throwing too many pitches in the strike zone, though according to Fangraphs, he’s actually throwing 47.6 percent of his pitches in the strike zone – down from 48.7 percent in 2015. But when batters are making contact against his pitches in the strike zone, they’re hitting them harder than ever."
Price made his mechanical adjustment starting May 12.
Since then, and even with a couple of tough starts in the mix, he's gone 83 IP, 3.14 ERA, 5.8 K/BB ratio, 9.43 K rate, averaging 7 IP a start.
Even on days like yesterday when he struggles to get into a groove early, he generally goes deep into games, which truly impresses me. He threw what, 26 pitches in the first inning yesterday and yet still went 8 and dominated. He's using the changeup a lot more as well.
Since then, and even with a couple of tough starts in the mix, he's gone 83 IP, 3.14 ERA, 5.8 K/BB ratio, 9.43 K rate, averaging 7 IP a start.
Even on days like yesterday when he struggles to get into a groove early, he generally goes deep into games, which truly impresses me. He threw what, 26 pitches in the first inning yesterday and yet still went 8 and dominated. He's using the changeup a lot more as well.