Red Sox Offseason News and Notes
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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In most cases, you'd be completely right. In Swihart's case, it's a little more complicated. In January of the winter after he was drafted, BA had this in his scouting report:
https://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2012/2612768.html
Third isn't quite second on the defensive spectrum, but if the goal is more a bounce around the field type than a full time second baseman, he might have the athleticism to pull it off. The big wild card, of course, is did his ankle injury permanently diminish his range? And if so, by how much?
Well, we know Sale likes him. There was talk last week suggesting there's 120-game-a-year potential in Vazquez. I can see Leon sticking around as the back up and Sale caddy if he's only expected to handle 45-50 games.
There's more details in the thread dedicated to this in the MLB forum, but teams can sign these players (and only these players) and defer their signings to next year's money. So the Red Sox could actually make an aggressive push for Maitan if they'd like.
And given the state of the farm, if they don't have the option to chase Ohtani, I think preemptively burning next year's pool on Maitan and another released prospect or two might be a good way to replenish the system a bit.
Have you read Eric Longenhagen's article at Fangraphs?
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-braves-punishment-is-in-and-its-harsh/
It is ... uncomplimentary... of Maitan and Gutierrez.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-braves-punishment-is-in-and-its-harsh/
It is ... uncomplimentary... of Maitan and Gutierrez.
From his chat today:
Eric A Longenhagen: ...but people jumping off the Maitan train are doing so prematurely. Prospect development isn’t linear, there’s still too much talent there to just abandon. He’s 17.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say over correction. He was clearly trying to add a little more context to his write-up which has some fair criticisms. I'll revise my expectations downward from him receiving anywhere near the 3.5 million the Yankees or Rangers have left in their pools, but I think someone still offers him north of a million. Yeah, he's likely a 1st baseman by the time he hits the majors, but it sounds like the bat speed and power are for real. Swing mechanics can be tweaked or fixed. I'd be surprised if he's not still a top 100 prospect this winter, even if he's dropped to the back end of those lists.
If the Sox can sign him for 1-1.5 million, he'd still slot in comfortably in the top 10, I'd bet.
Edit: FWIW MLB Pipeline still has him at 38 and they update regularly, so that's likely not an outdated ranking.
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They update adding people and removing people when they change teams but they are due for a periodic reranking, I believe in January, with guys like Rutherford and Groome and Maitan dropped lower because of disappointing 2017s. I think maybe they do a full rerank twice a year, January and mid-season?
So with the Twins voiding Jelfry Marte's ~$3M contract recently due to a failed physical one would think MLB would return Flores' money to Boston's pool.
It appears that the same round of initial physicals following international signing that had Minnesota void Marte's contract is the same round of physicals Flores would have just received if not for his untimely demise. It's not like the Sox were going to rescind his deal if it had been discovered, but as analogous as those two scenarios are it would only make logical sense that MLB let them have the pool money back.
It appears that the same round of initial physicals following international signing that had Minnesota void Marte's contract is the same round of physicals Flores would have just received if not for his untimely demise. It's not like the Sox were going to rescind his deal if it had been discovered, but as analogous as those two scenarios are it would only make logical sense that MLB let them have the pool money back.
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Holy crap. That leaves the Twins with over 6 million to offer Ohtani. Did they just become the favorites to land him? They made the playoffs and have a good young core for him to join. They don't have an obvious DH blocking Ohtani from hitting. The Rangers and the Yankees can't touch that large of an offer.
Also it is known that Ohtani is not a big-city type of person. He is from a town of about 4,000 people which scouts says is similar to a northeastern Vermont village. He may like the thought of playing in a smaller market such as Minnesota.
No, that $3M was already in MIN’s total, they are still a bit below TEX and NY.
Interesting acquisition. At only 25 (26 for next season) he's got a very strong stat line. Kind of surprised no club grabbed him as a mL piece last year after a .972 OPS season at 24.
Anyone know what the Mexican league compares to in terms of mL levels? Going by how Velazquez did last year it can't be way worse than AA I'd think.
Anyone know what the Mexican league compares to in terms of mL levels? Going by how Velazquez did last year it can't be way worse than AA I'd think.
Studies show it's about on par with A ball overall, but that its upper talent is AAA material. Thing is, he also played in the Mexican Winter Pro League, which is BETTER and probably closer to AA with lots of former and current ML players.
His line in the MXPW for his career is .289/.379/.414 with 50bb/85k in 464 PA. 19 doubles, 10 HRs. That doesn't include his performance this year, where he is currently slashing .308/.433/.408 with 23bb/22k in 143 PA. He went 1/1 yesterday.
FYI, if you are looking for his current performance in the winter league, he is listed as Jesus Quiroz. His full name is Jesus Estaban Quiroz.
edit: Over the last few years, his plate discipline and in game power have greatly improved. Maybe he can give us a little Oscar Robles magic for a season or 4. Quiroz has also played all the OF positions along with 2b/3b/SS so he brings some versatility.
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Should be interesting to see him in Spring Training that's for sure.
The analysis of comparative strength is interesting and somewhat encouraging. The one thing I would caution though is that the versatility may not really be transferable.
He may be able to play passable defense at multiple positions in that league, but the quality of MLB is so high, there's almost certainly a gap that can't be easily quantified.
If he can be a serviceable middle infielder, with a decent approach and little pop, we should be thrilled.
I would say that I'm surprised he signed with Boston. We sort of have a log jam in terms of marginal starter quality/ good depth options:
The analysis of comparative strength is interesting and somewhat encouraging. The one thing I would caution though is that the versatility may not really be transferable.
He may be able to play passable defense at multiple positions in that league, but the quality of MLB is so high, there's almost certainly a gap that can't be easily quantified.
If he can be a serviceable middle infielder, with a decent approach and little pop, we should be thrilled.
I would say that I'm surprised he signed with Boston. We sort of have a log jam in terms of marginal starter quality/ good depth options:
- Marco Hernandez
- Brock Holt
- Tzu-Wei Li
- Deven Marrero
I'm guessing it was a minor league deal so he'd be AAA depth. The guy also might be smaller than Dustin Pedroia.
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And all 4 are on the 40 man roster, so they could replace one of them and open up a slot
So, doing a little reading about this, the CBA is pretty specific about the particular scenarios in which pool money is no longer counted against a team's cap:
So any decision to do as much for the Red Sox would be an exception to what is listed here. Granted, it may just be that a death of this nature simply wasn't imagined as possible when this clause was being written and the league may decided this situation falls within the spirit of the rule, but a strict reading of the CBA doesn't cover this.
Edit: Image of the text pulled from here: http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/11/boston_red_sox_wont_recoup_int.html
Ohtani will likely be looking big picture. Endorsement revenue potential and ability of team to offer big extension, plus the teams ability to sustain a winning team by keeping its young stars , not to mention a city with a sizeable japanese community (residents and visitors) and non stop flights to Japan
During a regular season a player only spends 110 days or so in Minnesota. I think any small town desires he harbors can be met in the offseason and in retirement. The amount of bonus money is also likely to be not as important as some think it will be. More is better of course but only so long as all the other pieces fit.
Suffice to say, the Twin Cities (metro population 3.3 million) are not exactly a small village.
Yes there are pastoral suburbs but that applies to virtually every major US city.
True. Minneapolis is driveable. He could own a lakefront home and be 30 minutes from Target Field. Of course, Seattle offers the same (with slightly worse traffic).
I mean, it's a technicality, but I'm pretty sure that Flores is going to fail any physical and is definitely not eligible for a work visa.
Technically this applies to virtually every city in the US. Probably excepting New York and Los Angeles.
Even then you could live on Long Island or something.
Terrible fucking comment. Not funny in the least.I mean, it's a technicality, but I'm pretty sure that Flores is going to fail any physical and is definitely not eligible for a work visa.
Also it is horrible that 17 year old kid dies of anything let alone cancer. Some people utilize dark humor as a coping mechanism. For someone to pass judgement because it offends their delicate sensibilities is fucking terrible.
I have read this a few times and am not sure if the snake is accidentally or deliberately eating its own tail.
Seeing some non tenders from other teams announced. Is midnight the deadline to tender contracts? Did everyone get offered?
No one has mentioned the 2018 Red Sox Hall of Fame inductees?
Kevin Youkilis
Derek Lowe
Mike Lowell
Buck Freeman
Al Green (non-uniformed inductee with 44 years of service)
The July 21, 1959 major league debut of Pumpsie Green as a Memorable Red Sox Moment
I'm a little less than awed; although, it wasn't until the 1919 season before someone hit more home runs in a season for the Red Sox than Freeman did in his first three years with the club (1901-03) when he was in double-figures. And frankly, adding Pumpsie Green to the hall would have been a better tribute than just marking his debut as a memorable moment.
Kevin Youkilis
Derek Lowe
Mike Lowell
Buck Freeman
Al Green (non-uniformed inductee with 44 years of service)
The July 21, 1959 major league debut of Pumpsie Green as a Memorable Red Sox Moment
I'm a little less than awed; although, it wasn't until the 1919 season before someone hit more home runs in a season for the Red Sox than Freeman did in his first three years with the club (1901-03) when he was in double-figures. And frankly, adding Pumpsie Green to the hall would have been a better tribute than just marking his debut as a memorable moment.
I agree. To me this seems like a remembrance of how backwards the Red Sox were, rather than something that should be celebrated. Pumpsie Green, the man, should be rewarded and lauded. The debut of Pumpsie Green should only be remembered as how not to progress forward.
I don't like this at all.
The Baseball Hall of Fame did a similar thing with a guy (honoring instead of inducting) who had tons to do with reminding everyone about the Negro Leagues. Hmmm, who was that again?
I guess the Sox could rename Yawkey Way in honor of Green to make up for it like the the Baseball Hall did by naming the Lifetime Achievement award after that other guy and putting a statue of him out front.
I guess the Sox could rename Yawkey Way in honor of Green to make up for it like the the Baseball Hall did by naming the Lifetime Achievement award after that other guy and putting a statue of him out front.
I still think the Red Sox owe some tribute to Lorenzo "Piper" Davis, who they cut from their Eastern League (A) club in Scranton after 15 games in 1950 although he was leading the club in batting, slugging, home run at the time. He played several years with Birmingham in the Negro American League and while he played the most games at first, he did play all nine positions and managed the Black Barons and was a mentor of Willie Mays.
After the Sox released him, he played in the Mexican League and then played in the PCL and the Texas League to end his 17-year career. He also played a lot of winter ball and later scouted for some MLB teams. And because Abe Saperstein was owner of the Birmingham club as well as the Harlem Globe Trotters, Davis also played some basketball.
Allegedly, the Sox released him for "economic" reasons and didn't even give him train fare home. Supposedly, he encountered Joe Cronin wile changing trains in D.C. and told him about that with Cronin later mailing him the fare. A more full story may be found at the Buffalo Head Society.
I think I posted some of this before (renaming Yawkey Drive) but this is a good opportunity to bring it up again as he was the first Black player signed by the Red Sox system and I think they owe him some respect.
After the Sox released him, he played in the Mexican League and then played in the PCL and the Texas League to end his 17-year career. He also played a lot of winter ball and later scouted for some MLB teams. And because Abe Saperstein was owner of the Birmingham club as well as the Harlem Globe Trotters, Davis also played some basketball.
Allegedly, the Sox released him for "economic" reasons and didn't even give him train fare home. Supposedly, he encountered Joe Cronin wile changing trains in D.C. and told him about that with Cronin later mailing him the fare. A more full story may be found at the Buffalo Head Society.
I think I posted some of this before (renaming Yawkey Drive) but this is a good opportunity to bring it up again as he was the first Black player signed by the Red Sox system and I think they owe him some respect.
I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a crotchety get on my lawn speech before, but, well, you’ve got me convinced.
Thank you for this post—I must’ve somehow missed it in the Yawkey thread.
Might as well crochet some more...
Lorenzo finally got his chance to play in "organized" ball when Tom Hayes, owner of the Birmingham Black Barons, sold Piper’s contract to the Boston Red Sox for $7,500 in late 1949. Under the terms of the sale, Hayes was to get an additional $7,500 if Davis was still on Red Sox’s roster on May 15, 1950. The signing of Davis made him the first "black" ball player to be signed by the Boston Red Sox organization.
He was released shortly before the May 15th contract deadline, allegedly because they could not afford to keep his contract (which apparently meant they didn't want to pay the remaining $7,500 to the owner of the Black Barons).
Scranton was chosen as the best place to start playing Davis because the two higher farm clubs in the Red Sox system were at Louisville and Birmingham but he still faced a lot of discrimination from the very start of spring training in Coco Beach, Florida. Davis did seem to have the support of GM Joe Cronin. According to a story published in the Pittsburgh Courier on December 17, 1949, Cronin was quoted as saying, "He is a fine kid. I'm going to try him out with the Scranton club. If he makes good, I'm going to waste no time moving him to Boston."
This is from a paper (.pdf) from the Center of Negro League Baseball Research by Dr. Layton and Luis Munoz.
(Documents/baseball_work/PiperDavis/Lorenzo-Piper-Davis.pdf -- It is a very slow download so I left off the beginning of the URL). But it has a very full coverage of Davis's career in baseball and basketball with a number of photographs.
He was one of 15 on Branch Rickey's final list of prospective players to break the color barrier in Major League Baseball and in the summer of 1947 the St. Louis Browns purchased a 30-day option on him but he only appeared in an exhibition game with their Newark farm club before it was dropped. There seem to be conflicting black and white reports as to why it was dropped.
Lorenzo finally got his chance to play in "organized" ball when Tom Hayes, owner of the Birmingham Black Barons, sold Piper’s contract to the Boston Red Sox for $7,500 in late 1949. Under the terms of the sale, Hayes was to get an additional $7,500 if Davis was still on Red Sox’s roster on May 15, 1950. The signing of Davis made him the first "black" ball player to be signed by the Boston Red Sox organization.
He was released shortly before the May 15th contract deadline, allegedly because they could not afford to keep his contract (which apparently meant they didn't want to pay the remaining $7,500 to the owner of the Black Barons).
Scranton was chosen as the best place to start playing Davis because the two higher farm clubs in the Red Sox system were at Louisville and Birmingham but he still faced a lot of discrimination from the very start of spring training in Coco Beach, Florida. Davis did seem to have the support of GM Joe Cronin. According to a story published in the Pittsburgh Courier on December 17, 1949, Cronin was quoted as saying, "He is a fine kid. I'm going to try him out with the Scranton club. If he makes good, I'm going to waste no time moving him to Boston."
This is from a paper (.pdf) from the Center of Negro League Baseball Research by Dr. Layton and Luis Munoz.
(Documents/baseball_work/PiperDavis/Lorenzo-Piper-Davis.pdf -- It is a very slow download so I left off the beginning of the URL). But it has a very full coverage of Davis's career in baseball and basketball with a number of photographs.
He was one of 15 on Branch Rickey's final list of prospective players to break the color barrier in Major League Baseball and in the summer of 1947 the St. Louis Browns purchased a 30-day option on him but he only appeared in an exhibition game with their Newark farm club before it was dropped. There seem to be conflicting black and white reports as to why it was dropped.
- “The Red Sox are no longer involved in the Stanton race, per Craig Mish of MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM (Twitter link). A report on Wednesday indicated that Boston and Miami hadn’t discussed Stanton since the general managers meetings in mid-November, so the Red Sox’s apparent exit from the sweepstakes doesn’t come as a surprise.” - MLBTR