Red Sox Hot Stove Rumors

[RedOctober3829]

Since the '15 Red Sox thread is turning into a megathread with rumors, here is a separate thread to put the musings of Gammons, Bradford, Abraham, etc. and any other Red Sox-related Hot Stove rumors.
 
From Rob Bradford's GM meetings primer:

 

The Red Sox will not be meeting with any players this week, just agents and teams — a lot of them.
Cherington will meet up with Gustavo Vasquez (Pablo Sandoval’s agent), Sam and Seth Levinson (Jon Lester‘s agents), Page Odle (James Shields‘ agent), Adam Katz (Hanley Ramirez‘s agent), and, yes, Scott Boras (Max Scherzer‘s agent). The list will be a lot longer, but you get the idea.
 

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/11/10/a-general-managers-meetings-primer/

 

[GaryPeters71]

Peter Gammons: Cherington, Red Sox Faced With Long Winter Ahead
 
http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-cherington-red-sox-faced-with-long-winter-ahead/

 

[jacklamabe65]

Alex Speier takes an inventory of what the Red Sox might have to offer other teams. In-depth and compelling as usual. 
 
 
http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2014/11/10/stacking-red-sox-chips-look-teams-trade-invent

 

[touchstone033]

 
Peter Gammons: Cherington, Red Sox Faced With Long Winter Ahead
 
http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-cherington-red-sox-faced-with-long-winter-ahead/
 

 
Loved this piece. My favorite bit:
 

 
 
Thursday night at an Arizona Fall League game, one highly-respected veteran scout offered the opinion that Deven Marrero, who is hitting .320/,443/.420 in that league, is the best defensive shortstop in the American League and that, in his opinion, Marrero is a better player than the Indians’ phenom Francisco Lindor. 

 
There's nobody like Gammons to fill you with the newborn hopes of spring just as the first snow falls.

 

[GaryPeters71]

There's nobody like Gammons to fill you with the newborn hopes of spring just as the first snow falls.
 
~ For sure. And he didn't even use his favorite adjective, "remarkable," to describe Deven's character.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes 31s32 seconds ago
Sox have made a call on Justin Masterson; they're one of many
 

https://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/531917724809568256

 

[foulkehampshire]

https://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/531917724809568256

 
I'm not even convinced he can be a serviceable SP anymore. 
 
If Cherington wants to pay for the GB% and the K's (and tons of walks), call up Liriano. At least his stuff hasn't declined and has no significant platoon issues. 
 
That being said, I'm sure Masterson will get signed by the Pirates and will enjoy a revival like so many others. 

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: Hanley Ramirez on #RedSox's radar. Willingness to play LF or 3B adds to his appeal. Possible alternative to Sandoval.

 

[Corsi]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  4m4 minutes ago
Sources: Hanley Ramirez on #RedSox's radar. Willingness to play LF or 3B adds to his appeal. Possible alternative to Sandoval.
 

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/531925618985021441

 

[Bosoxen]

 
I'm not even convinced he can be a serviceable SP anymore. 
 
If Cherington wants to pay for the GB% and the K's (and tons of walks), call up Liriano. At least his stuff hasn't declined and has no significant platoon issues. 
 
That being said, I'm sure Masterson will get signed by the Pirates and will enjoy a revival like so many others. 

 
Since he was offered a QO, I would hope the Sox stay far, far away from Liriano.

 

[Greg29fan]

 
Since he was offered a QO, I would hope the Sox stay far, far away from Liriano.

 
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/531928647494422529

 

[foulkehampshire]

 
Since he was offered a QO, I would hope the Sox stay far, far away from Liriano.

 
He's put up some serious numbers the last 2 years with Pittsburg over the last 2 years (55 GS). He'd be a good pickup at a reasonable price, and as the 1st pick is protected this shouldn't even be a consideration. 

 

[E5 Yaz]

Pete Abraham @PeteAbe  ·  37m 37 minutes ago

If Cuddyer is worth $21M and a 1st round pick for 2 years, Cespedes at $10.5M for 1 year seems like a ton of trade value for #RedSox

 

[soxhop411]

“@GordonEdes: Jay Alou Jr., agent for Yasmany Tomas, said Sox had him take some ground balls when he worked out. Said he could play third. He’s an OF”

 

[GRPhilipp]

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: Hanley Ramirez on #RedSox's radar. Willingness to play LF or 3B adds to his appeal. Possible alternative to Sandoval.

 
This is a head-scratcher for me.  Sure, Hanley's bat is tempting, but after everything we heard in 2013 about the organization's focus on free agents with what one could call "good baseball character" (e.g. Gomes, Victorino, Napoli, Ross), I just can't see how they could even consider bringing in (rather, bringing back!) a guy with Hanley's reputation for attitude problems.  Has everyone really forgotten about pizza-gate already?  The thread is here.  
 
And that's before we even get to his defense and injury history.
 
I struggle with the decision to invest a lot in Hanley on my fantasy teams.  I just can't imagine the Red Sox paying market price to bring this guy and all his issues to the real team.
 
 
edit: HTML fail

 

[EvilEmpire]

Pete Abraham @PeteAbe  ·  37m 37 minutes ago

If Cuddyer is worth $21M and a 1st round pick for 2 years, Cespedes at $10.5M for 1 year seems like a ton of trade value for #RedSox

Or, the Mets are delusional and Cuddyer is worth $21M and a 1st round pick only in their sad, distorted little world.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Pete Abraham @PeteAbe  ·  [URL="https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/531923994065125376

https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/531923994065125376"]

link to tweet 37m 37 minutes ago[/url]

If Cuddyer is worth $21M and a 1st round pick for 2 years, Cespedes at $10.5M for 1 year seems like a ton of trade value for #RedSox

You know that one guy in the room that keeps telling the same joke to different people so he can convince himself that its funny...that is Pete Abe and the Cespedes rumor right now. Has any credible reporter even come out to give credibility to this story? Between him and Cafardo I don't know how the Globe even stays in business. They make CHB tolerable!

As for Hanley Ramirez, has there been any reports anywhere of him being a bad teammate? I'm not saying the above comments about him are wrong but is there any evidence of this? I think playing in Miami for a constant loser can really bother certain players. Losing your position to a guy who is arguably a lesser talent can also make someone pretty mad. The fact is Hanley could be motivated to play in Fenway. That is a scary proposition for the rest of the American League.

 

[foulkehampshire]

 
This is a head-scratcher for me.  Sure, Hanley's bat is tempting, but after everything we heard in 2013 about the organization's focus on free agents with what one could call "good baseball character" (e.g. Gomes, Victorino, Napoli, Ross), I just can't see how they could even consider bringing in (rather, bringing back!) a guy with Hanley's reputation for attitude problems.  Has everyone really forgotten about pizza-gate already?  The thread is here.  
 
And that's before we even get to his defense and injury history.
 
I struggle with the decision to invest a lot in Hanley on my fantasy teams.  I just can't imagine the Red Sox paying market price to bring this guy and all his issues to the real team.
 
 
edit: HTML fail

 
Maybe they find a potential .300/.380/.500 line at 3B a suitable alternative. Even mercurial players can thrive in a good clubhouse.
 
I'd be a sourpuss if I wasted my prime years in Miami. 

 

[chrisfont9]

“@GordonEdes: Jay Alou Jr., agent for Yasmany Tomas, said Sox had him take some ground balls when he worked out. Said he could play third. He’s an OF”

How does WMB feel knowing that practically anyone in contact with the Sox nowadays is saying "yeah sure, I can play third"?

 

[Saints Rest]

How does WMB feel knowing that practically anyone in contact with the Sox nowadays is saying "yeah sure, I can play third"?

Not as bad as he feels when he realizes that the Sox say "Good. You're better than anything we've got."

 

[CaskNFappin]

I'd rather see a 100m contract go towards Hanley's ceiling than Panda's floor. It also seems likely Sandoval gets at least an extra year, if not 2 or 3.

 

[MakMan44]

I'd rather see a 100m contract go towards Hanley's ceiling than Panda's floor. It also seems likely Sandoval gets at least an extra year, if not 2 or 3.

I don't buy it. You don't think Hanley's going for at least 6 years? 

 

[CaskNFappin]

He will be 31....he might ask for 6 but for high AAV he will probably agree to 4 with an option.

 

[curly2]

You know that one guy in the room that keeps telling the same joke to different people so he can convince himself that its funny...that is Pete Abe and the Cespedes rumor right now. Has any credible reporter even come out to give credibility to this story? Between him and Cafardo I don't know how the Globe even stays in business. They make CHB tolerable!.

 
The Cespedes thing originally came from Bill Madden of the New York Daily News, who said the Sox can't stand him. The Sox shot down that part of the story, but with Castillo, Betts, Victorino, Craig and Nava all on the roster, I'm sure the Sox will at least listen on Cespedes, even if they aren't actively shopping them.

 

[MakMan44]

I guess he could. I just find it hard to believe that he'd want to hit the FA market again. 
 
EDIT: About Hanley

 

[soxhop411]

“@brianmacp: Source: Red Sox yet to check in on Ervin Santana, but they were scouting him "the whole year." In next tier behind Scherzer/Lester/Shields.”
https://twitter.com/brianmacp/status/531959292497125377

https://twitter.com/brianmacp/status/531959292497125377

link to tweet

 

[chrisfont9]

“@brianmacp: Source: Red Sox yet to check in on Ervin Santana, but they were scouting him "the whole year." In next tier behind Scherzer/Lester/Shields.”
 

https://twitter.com/brianmacp/status/531959292497125377
link to tweet
 


Which means they're interested in him. Or maybe means they've seen enough and aren't interested. He's definitely in a tier behind the top three. The question is, is that tier above Webster/De La Rosa/etc? His numbers look league-average to me.

 

[rodderick]

Which means they're interested in him. Or maybe means they've seen enough and aren't interested. He's definitely in a tier behind the top three. The question is, is that tier above Webster/De La Rosa/etc? His numbers look league-average to me.

 
His numbers in 2013 and 2014 are certainly better than league average. He was a comparable pitcher to Lackey and McCarthy last season, for instance. You can debate whether or not investing reasonable money in that kind of pitcher is the best course of action for a team so desperately in need of top tier SPs and with so many young arms in AA or above, but Santana is a pretty sure bet to be better than RDLR/Webster in 2015 at least.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Not as bad as he feels when he realizes that the Sox say "Good. You're better than anything we've got."

Even worse when he finds out this was dialogue from the Max Scherzer negotiations.

 

[JakeRae]

 
His numbers in 2013 and 2014 are certainly better than league average. He was a comparable pitcher to Lackey and McCarthy last season, for instance. You can debate whether or not investing reasonable money in that kind of pitcher is the best course of action for a team so desperately in need of top tier SPs and with so many young arms in AA or above, but Santana is a pretty sure bet to be better than RDLR/Webster in 2015 at least.

You are correct that he was comparable to Lackey and McCarthy last year. However, that is a below average pitcher, not an above average one. He's roughly an average pitcher though, as last year was an off year for him.

 

[curly2]

Yes, his FIP was a half-run better than his ERA, but Santana turns 32 next month is coming off a season in the National League, in a division with pitcher-friendly ballparks (except Philly) and bad lineups and he put up an ERA+ of 92. No thanks.

 

[Harry Hooper]

We know this FO loves flexibility. Signing Hanley for 3B with the option of moving him to LF down the road if Middlebrooks/Cecchini force the issue would fit in that sense.

 

[Plympton91]

 
His numbers in 2013 and 2014 are certainly better than league average. He was a comparable pitcher to Lackey and McCarthy last season, for instance. You can debate whether or not investing reasonable money in that kind of pitcher is the best course of action for a team so desperately in need of top tier SPs and with so many young arms in AA or above, but Santana is a pretty sure bet to be better than RDLR/Webster in 2015 at least.

Agreed. It is true that the Red Sox need 2 top of the rotation starters, but they're bringing back 5 starters who were below average last season and a bunch of prospects. TINSTAAPP. Right now the Red Sox have nothing but 5th starters. They can't afford to be that picky.

If they can't make 2 top of the rotation signings, I hope they make at least 2 signings of mid rotation starters to reduce the risk of having to watch the August/September shitshow all season.

 

[OptimusPapi]

Agreed. It is true that the Red Sox need 2 top of the rotation starters, but they're bringing back 5 starters who were below average last season and a bunch of prospects. TINSTAAPP. Right now the Red Sox have nothing but 5th starters. They can't afford to be that picky.

If they can't make 2 top of the rotation signings, I hope they make at least 2 signings of mid rotation starters to reduce the risk of having to watch the August/September shitshow all season.

I feel that saying they have all fifth starters is a little pessimistic. Kelly is more of a mid rotation guy and Buccholz has the ability to be a top of the rotation guy. Also judging any of the kids based on their first taste of the majors is a little hasty. They need a front of the rotation starter, I won't argue that, but I think the second guy can be a second tier guy like Mccarthy.

 

[ivanvamp]

Buchholz is a complete wild card.  Here are relevant numbers over his career:
 
ERA:  1.59, 6.75, 4.21, 2.33, 3.48, 4.56, 1.74, 5.34
IP:  22.2, 76.0, 92.0, 173.2, 82.2, 189.1, 108.1, 170.1
bWAR:  1.0, -1.2, 2.0, 5.6, 1.9, 0.9, 4.3, -1.6
 
I mean, is he a great pitcher (2.33, 1.74) or a terrible one (6.75, 4.56, 5.34)?
 
Is he a solid innings guy (173.2, 189.1, 170.1) or a constant injury problem (82.2, 108.1)?  
 
Is he really valuable (5.6, 4.3) or hardly worth anything (-1.2, 0.9, -1.6)?
 
I don't think you can count on him for anything, so you plan accordingly.  And then, if Clay turns out to be the good Clay, you have a SIGNIFICANT upgrade on your hands.
 
So…..
 
I think the Sox need 2 "top" guys (Lester/Scherzer/Shields/Cueto/Latos/Hamels).  I think Kelly is a #3.  I think RDLR is a solid #5 or a #4.  And then Clay.  If Clay is the bad Clay, then he's a mediocre #5 (or a little worse), and that forces RDLR to be better.  But if Clay is the good/great Clay, then he's every bit a #1 starter, and that means that you have *three* top of the rotation guys, which frees Kelly up to be a really good #4 and RDLR to be a good #5.  And the entire rotation becomes a huge weapon.
 
EDIT:  You probably can get away with rolling the dice a little on Clay and getting one "top" guy, and another "pretty good" guy (McCarthy/Santana type).  If Clay bombs, then other guys need to be just a little bit better.  But if Clay is great, then that rotation very much can get the job done.

 

[JCizzle]

https://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/532019613337272321
 
I know how hard this is to believe but a well-placed source predicted that Red Sox will re-sign Lester, and may go up to 6 yrs to do so
 
 
 
Please make it happen!

 

[mBiferi]

135M per 6 years? I wouldn't *hate* that deal, but I'm not really sure that's enough to bring him back.

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

Yes, please. While it's a lot of money and a little longer than I'd prefer, I'm on board.

 

[jimbobim]

this is what I like to hear . I also agree with this
 
Joon Lee ‏@iamjoonlee  8m8 minutes ago
#RedSox Twitter like: MT @GordonEdes: Well-placed source predicted that Red Sox will sign Lester, may go up to 6 yrs.




 





 


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[OptimusPapi]

Buchholz is a complete wild card.  Here are relevant numbers over his career:
 
ERA:  1.59, 6.75, 4.21, 2.33, 3.48, 4.56, 1.74, 5.34
IP:  22.2, 76.0, 92.0, 173.2, 82.2, 189.1, 108.1, 170.1
bWAR:  1.0, -1.2, 2.0, 5.6, 1.9, 0.9, 4.3, -1.6

I agree completely that Buccholz is the wild card. I was using him to illustrated that unequivocally stating the sox have nothing but fives might be a tad bit on the negative side. We could certainly end up with 2014 Buccholz but we can also end up with 2013 Buccholz and anything in between.
 
I mean, is he a great pitcher (2.33, 1.74) or a terrible one (6.75, 4.56, 5.34)?
 
Is he a solid innings guy (173.2, 189.1, 170.1) or a constant injury problem (82.2, 108.1)?  
 
Is he really valuable (5.6, 4.3) or hardly worth anything (-1.2, 0.9, -1.6)?
 
I don't think you can count on him for anything, so you plan accordingly.  And then, if Clay turns out to be the good Clay, you have a SIGNIFICANT upgrade on your hands.
 
So..
 
I think the Sox need 2 "top" guys (Lester/Scherzer/Shields/Cueto/Latos/Hamels).  I think Kelly is a #3.  I think RDLR is a solid #5 or a #4.  And then Clay.  If Clay is the bad Clay, then he's a mediocre #5 (or a little worse), and that forces RDLR to be better.  But if Clay is the good/great Clay, then he's every bit a #1 starter, and that means that you have *three* top of the rotation guys, which frees Kelly up to be a really good #4 and RDLR to be a good #5.  And the entire rotation becomes a huge weapon.
 
EDIT:  You probably can get away with rolling the dice a little on Clay and getting one "top" guy, and another "pretty good" guy (McCarthy/Santana type).  If Clay bombs, then other guys need to be just a little bit better.  But if Clay is great, then that rotation very much can get the job done.

 

[nighthob]

Even worse when he finds out this was dialogue from the Max Scherzer negotiations.

If Alex hadn't offed himself this is the spot for the "for a job for his brother" joke.

 

[GRPhilipp]

135M per 6 years? I wouldn't *hate* that deal, but I'm not really sure that's enough to bring him back.

 
I'll take the under on dollars.  I expect to see something closer to $100M.  Maybe $110M.  Sort of the pitching equivalent to the Pedroia contract, for a player who has expressed similar love for, and loyalty to, the franchise.  Great news if true, assuming it's at a team-friendly AAV.

 

[soxhop411]

Add fuel to the fire! Lester’s house was taken off the market on October 22 as @ColbyGuarino and @MaggieERogers said. http://t.co/bQbGVZGiTl

View attachment 643


https://twitter.com/iamjoonlee/status/532027538789658624

https://twitter.com/iamjoonlee/status/532027538789658624

link to tweet

 

[Doctor G]

You know that one guy in the room that keeps telling the same joke to different people so he can convince himself that its funny...that is Pete Abe and the Cespedes rumor right now. Has any credible reporter even come out to give credibility to this story? Between him and Cafardo I don't know how the Globe even stays in business. They make CHB tolerable!

As for Hanley Ramirez, has there been any reports anywhere of him being a bad teammate? I'm not saying the above comments about him are wrong but is there any evidence of this? I think playing in Miami for a constant loser can really bother certain players. Losing your position to a guy who is arguably a lesser talent can also make someone pretty mad. The fact is Hanley could be motivated to play in Fenway. That is a scary proposition for the rest of the American League.

Ortiz is the x factor with Hanley. If David goes to bat  for Hanley with BC. it might be a deciding factor. Ortiz was a mentor to Ramirez before and could  mentor his successor at DH.

 

[chrisfont9]

Yes, his FIP was a half-run better than his ERA, but Santana turns 32 next month is coming off a season in the National League, in a division with pitcher-friendly ballparks (except Philly) and bad lineups and he put up an ERA+ of 92. No thanks.

My point exactly. His ERA+ has ranged from 74-127 over the last five years, as he ages and sneaks in a season in the NL. Why is he a better bet than Rubby, who at least has youth and the potential to improve on his side?

 

[NDame616]

 
I'll take the under on dollars.  I expect to see something closer to $100M.  Maybe $110M.  Sort of the pitching equivalent to the Pedroia contract, for a player who has expressed similar love for, and loyalty to, the franchise.  Great news if true, assuming it's at a team-friendly AAV.

 
You think Lester is going to sign for $100-$110M? That was probably the number before he pitched this season. Now every big market team will go after him. I can't imagine him signing for less than $150M (all along I've thought he'd be in pinstripes for 7/$175)

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

 
You think Lester is going to sign for $100-$110M? That was probably the number before he pitched this season. Now every big market team will go after him. I can't imagine him signing for less than $150M (all along I've thought he'd be in pinstripes for 7/$175)

 
If he were a Boras client I'd call Heyman's prediction of 6/135 definitive, but even as it is, it's coming from someone who knows the market fairly well. MLBTR said 6/147, the contract crowdsourcing project at FG said 6/130. Seems like there's a pretty strong emerging consensus that it will be six years for between 130 and 150. (Not that I would bet my house on the emerging consensus, mind you....)

 

[LondonSox]

I'm all over Hanley as a 3rd base solution if he's up for a move to 3rd base and the contract isn't crazy.
I think he's defense will play there, maybe even plus for the the beginning of the contract, with a ton of upside.
 
I'd rather have him than Panda, plus I'm also sad he never played for the Sox.
 
Injuries are the biggest issue with him, when he's been healthy he's hit, and while I'd be leery of him at SS, 3B yes please.

 

[ivanvamp]

Pablo vs Hanley
 
The case for Pablo:
- He's a lefty.  The Sox are RH dominant and could use a good LH bat.
- He's a natural 3b.  That is an advantage.  I would imagine he's better defensively at 3b than Hanley.
- He's younger (28 vs. 30).
- Championship pedigree (.344/.389/.545/.935 in 167 postseason plate appearances…not such a small sample).
- Good clubhouse guy.  Hanley has had some attitude problems in the past.  
 
The case for Hanley:
- He probably would cost less, being two years older.
- Better numbers overall.  Go from 2009-2014 (all of Panda's career except his cup of coffee in 2008).  
  Panda:  .292/.345/.464/.809, 124 ops+
  Hanley:  .295/.369/.483/.851, 130 ops+
- Panda's been declining.  OPS+ numbers last 4 seasons:  155, 123, 116, 111.  Heading in the wrong direction.
- Panda's weight - major potential problem down the road.
- Greater position flexibility.  
 
Long story short, I would prefer Hanley.  

 

[jimbobim]

Pablo vs Hanley
 
The case for Pablo:
- He's a lefty.  The Sox are RH dominant and could use a good LH bat.
- He's a natural 3b.  That is an advantage.  I would imagine he's better defensively at 3b than Hanley.
- He's younger (28 vs. 30).
- Championship pedigree (.344/.389/.545/.935 in 167 postseason plate appearances…not such a small sample).
- Good clubhouse guy.  Hanley has had some attitude problems in the past.  
 
The case for Hanley:
- He probably would cost less, being two years older.
- Better numbers overall.  Go from 2009-2014 (all of Panda's career except his cup of coffee in 2008).  
  Panda:  .292/.345/.464/.809, 124 ops+
  Hanley:  .295/.369/.483/.851, 130 ops+
- Panda's been declining.  OPS+ numbers last 4 seasons:  155, 123, 116, 111.  Heading in the wrong direction.
- Panda's weight - major potential problem down the road.
- Greater position flexibility.  
 
Long story short, I would prefer Hanley.  

 
Lovely little breakdown but don't we have a thread specifically titled the future at 3b ? Figure it might be better to leave this thread for news or rumors links