Figured this can be the catch-all for any Red Sox arbitration news.
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/424222963651469313
Red Sox and Arbitration
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I posted it earlier in the Badenhop thread, but Burke and the Sox settled at $2.15 million for his 3rd and final year of arb eligibility. MLBTR had projected $2.1M.
They also projected $1.3M for Tazawa (arb 1), so there's another one they pretty much nailed. Other projections: $1.9M for Miller (arb 3), $1.3M for Carp (arb 1), and $1.2M for Herrera (arb 2).
They also projected $1.3M for Tazawa (arb 1), so there's another one they pretty much nailed. Other projections: $1.9M for Miller (arb 3), $1.3M for Carp (arb 1), and $1.2M for Herrera (arb 2).
FWIW, one of the things I have heard repeatedly from (non-Sox) front office people is that arbitration has now supplanted draft signing bonus negotiations as the go-to process for the Commissioner's Office to insert themselves and just generally be an over-bearing, manipulative pain in the ass.
Basically, as I've heard it, MLB will call around and "strongly suggest" that teams use a certain figure when filing. If they resist, or decide upon a different number, the Commissioner's Office will call ownership and tell them their front office is screwing up, or call an Assistant GM or whatever and tell them they are not being a team player, or that some lower-level team person involved in the process is an idiot.
I'd suspect the MLBPA is doing the same thing with individual players' agents, but who knows.
Coupled with the massive time and effort that goes into preparing for hearings that rarely take place, the whole arbitration system just seems like a gigantic waste.
Basically, as I've heard it, MLB will call around and "strongly suggest" that teams use a certain figure when filing. If they resist, or decide upon a different number, the Commissioner's Office will call ownership and tell them their front office is screwing up, or call an Assistant GM or whatever and tell them they are not being a team player, or that some lower-level team person involved in the process is an idiot.
I'd suspect the MLBPA is doing the same thing with individual players' agents, but who knows.
Coupled with the massive time and effort that goes into preparing for hearings that rarely take place, the whole arbitration system just seems like a gigantic waste.
Scott Lauber doesn't say why, but tweets:
No hearings have been scheduled yet, but that phase of the process begins Feb 1.
No hearings have been scheduled yet, but that phase of the process begins Feb 1.
FWIW, the deadline for players and clubs to exchange arbitration figures was 1 pm EST, which is why most settlements are reached before then.
Hmmm - that is curious. The Sox have made a point of avoiding the actual arb process with any player, going on a long time now.....
TheYaz67 said:
They can still settle at any point between now and then right up until the hearing starts -- and I'm betting they will, just as they've done the past 2 years. But the figures had to be submitted to the league (and made known to both sides) by 1 pm today.
They exchange numbers with someone most (or at least many) years. SP.com has a good recent history: http://wiki.soxprospects.com/Red+Sox+Arbitration+HistoryTheYaz67 said:
Miller and Sox are 600k apart.
https://twitter.com/Sean_McAdam/status/424325520344363008
I'd guess a games-played incentive could get the two sides to a compromise number.
https://twitter.com/Sean_McAdam/status/424325520344363008
I'd guess a games-played incentive could get the two sides to a compromise number.
Sean McAdam @Sean_McAdam1m
Source: Andrew Miller filed for $2.15 million in salary arb; Red Sox at $1.55 million. #RedSoxTalk
https://twitter.com/Sean_McAdam/status/424325520344363008
Source: Andrew Miller filed for $2.15 million in salary arb; Red Sox at $1.55 million. #RedSoxTalk
https://twitter.com/Sean_McAdam/status/424325520344363008
Hairps said:
I would think MLB, as a collective representing all 30 owners, would be opening themselves up to collusion charges if they are doing that.
I don't think the arbitration system is a waste of time. The owners have a system which allows them to underpay arb eligible players relative to the market. So they have to do a bit of work. Players get to see their agents in action before they get to free agency and start earning a decent salary. The threat of going to arbitration is what makes the system work. Nobody wants to go there so they work out a deal they can both live with. However, if not for that arbitration threat, the owners would have all the leverage so the players will never agree to the elimination of arbitration, unless the alternative is free agency at 3 years instead of 6 years.
I think they can reach an agreement right up until the panel issues a ruling. That's not much later than the start of the hearing, but both sides are a lot closer to looking over the edge of the cliff once they've exchanged arguments but before the decision has been rendered.mabrowndog said:
http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf p.32 of "Article VI--Salaries" in the CBA. Unless I'm misunderstanding some important details.
Hairps said:
It's like saying all that time and effort maintaining those nuclear weapons (that for 40+ years deterred a big war in Europe that never took place) were a gigantic waste.
There's an historical point to make here too, though there are wiser heads than mine to make it. But it was the arbitration process that the MLBPA bargained into the CBA in the 1980s that raised the salary floor significantly for every player. Everyone remembers the impact of free agency: salaries for talented veterans went through the roof once ownership lost control over them, a trend that obviously continues to this day. But from the beginning of free agency the CBA stipulated a period when players were not free, the six-year service time measure that still holds. The arbitration process, with players eligible at first after two years, then negotiated to the current three, that gave players the chance to have their performance compared to their peers, rather than just set by the owners was crucial to the raising of salaries before a player became eligible for free agency. Salary arbitration was the rising tide that raised all the boats in the harbor. Free agency raised (and raises) the salary ceiling. Salary arbitration raises the salary floor for everyone.
FWIW, one of the things I have heard repeatedly from (non-Sox) front office people is that arbitration has now supplanted draft signing bonus negotiations as the go-to process for the Commissioner's Office to insert themselves and just generally be an over-bearing, manipulative pain in the ass.
Basically, as I've heard it, MLB will call around and "strongly suggest" that teams use a certain figure when filing. If they resist, or decide upon a different number, the Commissioner's Office will call ownership and tell them their front office is screwing up, or call an Assistant GM or whatever and tell them they are not being a team player, or that some lower-level team person involved in the process is an idiot.
I'd suspect the MLBPA is doing the same thing with individual players' agents, but who knows.
Coupled with the massive time and effort that goes into preparing for hearings that rarely take place, the whole arbitration system just seems like a gigantic waste.
I don't think this kind of pressure would even work.
Since the arbitrator must choose between the player's figure and the club's, forcing a club to lowball a player just means that the player is more likely to win his case.
The Sox offered Miller $1.55 and Miller asked for $2.15. The midpoint of those offers is $1.85. If the arbitrator decides that Miller is worth more than $1.85, he wins.
Now, let's say Selig had pressured the Sox to offer $1.05. Now the midpoint between the offers is $1.60. Obviously, under any circumstances, an arbitrator is more likely to find that a particular player is worth more than $1.60 than he is to find that that player is worth more than $1.85. So if a player is low balled, he is more likely to win his case - and that award will factor into future arbitrations.
Now maybe Selig is pressuring teams to make higher offers - on the theory that such offers raise the team's chance to win. But that would seem to require more imagination that Selig is capable of.
Basically, as I've heard it, MLB will call around and "strongly suggest" that teams use a certain figure when filing. If they resist, or decide upon a different number, the Commissioner's Office will call ownership and tell them their front office is screwing up, or call an Assistant GM or whatever and tell them they are not being a team player, or that some lower-level team person involved in the process is an idiot.
I'd suspect the MLBPA is doing the same thing with individual players' agents, but who knows.
Coupled with the massive time and effort that goes into preparing for hearings that rarely take place, the whole arbitration system just seems like a gigantic waste.
I don't think this kind of pressure would even work.
Since the arbitrator must choose between the player's figure and the club's, forcing a club to lowball a player just means that the player is more likely to win his case.
The Sox offered Miller $1.55 and Miller asked for $2.15. The midpoint of those offers is $1.85. If the arbitrator decides that Miller is worth more than $1.85, he wins.
Now, let's say Selig had pressured the Sox to offer $1.05. Now the midpoint between the offers is $1.60. Obviously, under any circumstances, an arbitrator is more likely to find that a particular player is worth more than $1.60 than he is to find that that player is worth more than $1.85. So if a player is low balled, he is more likely to win his case - and that award will factor into future arbitrations.
Now maybe Selig is pressuring teams to make higher offers - on the theory that such offers raise the team's chance to win. But that would seem to require more imagination that Selig is capable of.
Alex Speier @alexspeier 2m
Andrew Miller and the Red Sox have settled their arbitration case. Miller to make just over $1.9M in 2014
https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/434890082932121603
Andrew Miller and the Red Sox have settled their arbitration case. Miller to make just over $1.9M in 2014
https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/434890082932121603
