Evan Drellich @EvanDrellich 3m3 minutes ago
Sources: Red Sox, Brewers have agreed on a trade. Red Sox expected to land relief pitching.
Sources: Red Sox, Brewers have agreed on a trade. Red Sox expected to land relief pitching.
Red Sox acquire Tyler Thornburg from Brewers
- Thread starter amfox1
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Ken RosenthalVerified account @Ken_Rosenthal 3m3 minutes ago
Source: #RedSox acquire Tyler Thornburg from #Brewers
Source: #RedSox acquire Tyler Thornburg from #Brewers
I have to think there is more than that, if not wow.
Edit again: Dubon being in makes more sense.
Here is Dave Cameron's write-up on Thornburg from a summer piece on under-the-radar trade targets, in which he lists the newest member of the 25 as his favorite option.
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And Shaw. I think Shaw is a nice bench option who can offer some pop and backs up both 1st and 3rd adequately, so he's the real "prize" in the deal for the Brewers. Dubon is Holt-lite which is also nice, but nothing to get excited about (or upset about losing) IMO.
So a trending up ( but still outside the top 10) Dubon #12 Pennington a low A ball at #22 and Shaw who IMHO is toast but who will do alright in the banbox of MILW for an upside RP with 3 years of control but Carson Smith type injury issue/concern ? (all according to MLB Pipeline)
That's about as solid a trade you are going to get as far as value folks. Especially in this RP obsessed climate
That's about as solid a trade you are going to get as far as value folks. Especially in this RP obsessed climate
This really just leaves Panda, Marco, Marrero and Moncada for 3B. They must really like what they see out of Panda right now.
Wow. One good year in the NL with a noncontender and already 28. Yikes. Seems like competition for the 10th or 11th spots with Heath Hembree more than anything else.
I guess they've determined Travis Shaw is who he was in the second half of 2016. If Shaw bounces back at all, this is a huge overpay. And giving up Dubon as well? That's insanity.
And he's already halfway to TJ surgery apparently, with the PRP injection two years ago.
How many times are the Red Sox going to get hosed bringing in middle reliveres from the NL Central before they realize that the NL is really a AAAA league?
This has disaster written all over it. Dombrowski's questionable history of building bullpens doesn't inspire confidence.
I guess they've determined Travis Shaw is who he was in the second half of 2016. If Shaw bounces back at all, this is a huge overpay. And giving up Dubon as well? That's insanity.
And he's already halfway to TJ surgery apparently, with the PRP injection two years ago.
How many times are the Red Sox going to get hosed bringing in middle reliveres from the NL Central before they realize that the NL is really a AAAA league?
This has disaster written all over it. Dombrowski's questionable history of building bullpens doesn't inspire confidence.
It's tough to argue a trade is lopsided when you are sending flawed pieces like Dubon and Shaw back (although I am higher on Dubon than most), but Thornburg had "major" elbow issues in 2014-2015 which were followed by a velo spike in 2016. Part of that spike is becoming a F/T RP, but it's rare that elbow issues just disappear once they get as bad as they were for TT in 14-15.
Of course, this is the price you pay for RP these days, so if it was taking a gamble or two like this or giving Chapman 9/780, then I'll take this.
Of course, this is the price you pay for RP these days, so if it was taking a gamble or two like this or giving Chapman 9/780, then I'll take this.
David Cameron wrote up Thornburg over the summer as an under-the-radar deadline trade target:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/my-favorite-under-the-radar-trade-deadline-target/
He credits improvements made in 2016 to his velocity and curveball movement, and explores his reverse-platoon splits:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/my-favorite-under-the-radar-trade-deadline-target/
He credits improvements made in 2016 to his velocity and curveball movement, and explores his reverse-platoon splits:
Couple things.
1.
Alex Speier @alexspeier 42s43 seconds ago
Tyler Thornburg was an elite, elite reliever last year. RHP had huge K rates vs LHH (40.2%) while holding them to .130/.223/.190 line.
You can argue that we shouldn't take that as prediction of future performance, but to compare him to Hembree is insane. He's our 8th-inning guy, and he's dirt-cheap, and we have him for three years.
2. I think they determined that Travis Shaw is who he was all of 2016: a very streaky hitter with holes in his swing who would be a decent option for a corner infielder on a team that didn't have Sandoval, Holt, Moncada, and Devers all either under contract or on the way.
3. Dubon is Marco Hernandez is Brock Holt. He's worth more to a team that is bad enough to consider starting him at SS.
A buddy on mine is in Ft Myers this week and ran into Panda at the ST complex, posted a pic to his FB page. Panda looks terrific, totally in shape with no evidence of a belly at all. It's actually fairly remarkable.
If you think about it. DD has done a very good job (injuries aside) in building a cheap bullpen. Kimbrel Thornburg Smith is not a bad 7-9. Not exactly Miller Betances and Chapman but in theory if all 3 are healthy it should get the job done.
This is the key. There's a pretty good chance they have 2 of the 3 down the stretch. I'd guess Kimbrell and Smith if I had to bet on a pair, but if they get lucky, then yes this is a very nice back end of the pen. Joe Kelly is probably also in that mix.
Dude, come on.
Even in Milwaukee, 38 hits and 90Ks in 67 innings is pretty damned good.
As a reminder, Heath Hembree had 51 hits and 47 Ks in 51 innings last year.
Doesn't look like the same guy to me.
And I kinda like Heath Hembree sometimes.
This was taken yesterday. I understand it's tough to think, OK this time he's really in shape, but he looks great as of right now.
That's one more good year than Travis Shaw has ever had with anybody. I mean he was fine last year but lets face it, average is his ceiling and he probably won't quite get there. There's certainly nothing in his minor league history or scouting that suggests he will ever be better then he was last year. I'm much more interested in seeing what Moncada can do with that playing time.
The price of elite relief pitching is only going up after what we saw this post-season.
Yeah, but Xmas is coming up, SJH.
I will say a few words of sadness for Travis Shaw. He was terrific on a terrible team in 2015 once Napoli spit the bit. He absolutely earned the 3B job coming out of a ST, and seemed to lose his ability to hit LHP once he got hurt in May or early June and never fully recovered. I thought he was a pretty reliable glove at both spots and seemed not to shrink terribly at big moments; notwithstanding the fact that he made the last out of the season for the 2016 team, I actually felt like he might get a hit there, which spoke to his body of work over the course of 1.5 seasons with the team.
That said, Shaw played himself out of the job last year -- and they committed to Panda two years ago, a contract from which they need to get value. They also need to figure out what Moncada is going to be and where.
I will say a few words of sadness for Travis Shaw. He was terrific on a terrible team in 2015 once Napoli spit the bit. He absolutely earned the 3B job coming out of a ST, and seemed to lose his ability to hit LHP once he got hurt in May or early June and never fully recovered. I thought he was a pretty reliable glove at both spots and seemed not to shrink terribly at big moments; notwithstanding the fact that he made the last out of the season for the 2016 team, I actually felt like he might get a hit there, which spoke to his body of work over the course of 1.5 seasons with the team.
That said, Shaw played himself out of the job last year -- and they committed to Panda two years ago, a contract from which they need to get value. They also need to figure out what Moncada is going to be and where.
I would love it if the Sox social media department would photoshop a skinnier panda every year in different settings. Just to troll everyone for when he reports.
Shaw can't hit or lay off an above-the-belt fastball. That's a major league problem.
This is another deal-from-positions-of-depth move to acquire a needed piece. Agree with others; if you're not going to shell out the big money for a top FA arm, then you have to cash in trade chips or settle on flyers. Thornburg seems like a smart target and good get.
This is another deal-from-positions-of-depth move to acquire a needed piece. Agree with others; if you're not going to shell out the big money for a top FA arm, then you have to cash in trade chips or settle on flyers. Thornburg seems like a smart target and good get.
I would say this is more than a flier. Dude was straight up lights out last year. He's not perfect, but considering the outrageous prices that RPs have gone for...I'll take moves like this every time.
Now they are very LH at 3B, so DD also needs to address that (Trevor Plouffe maybe as the short side of a platoon?) but this was the kind of move you have to make. It's unlikely there's going to be a huge long term consequence for this deal.
I think its more like they thought Shaw was not an answer, and they put him to his highest and best use -- part of a trade.
2019, right? This is his first arb year, so we have three years of control going forward.
Anything's possible, but I think Shaw already bounced back. In 2016, he bounced back to the player he was for the entirety of his career before a red-hot August 2015 and April/May 2016.
This is correct. Projected 2017 salary is $2.2 million per both MLBTradeRumors and BleacherReport
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/10/projected-arbitration-salaries-2017.html
http://www.brewcrewball.com/2016/10/26/13415410/the-milwaukee-brewers-that-are-eligible-for-salary-arbitration
The corners are a position of strength for the team. Moncada Devers and Travis. I really don't see a bad outcome for this trade unless all 3 flame out and Shaw hits 25 homers a year AND Thornburg throws up a 7 era. I went over to Soxprospects for some humor and I was not disappointed with how they reacted. One poster is calling for protests ahaha.
This is a win for the Sox.
This is a win for the Sox.
Is Carson Smith on schedule to be ready for spring training? Or more like June?
Even with this acquisition, the bullpen is still a little bit light. I hope they re-sign Koji. Even if he's only good for 30 innings I think there's still a lot of value there.
Even with this acquisition, the bullpen is still a little bit light. I hope they re-sign Koji. Even if he's only good for 30 innings I think there's still a lot of value there.
Thornburg injured his UCL in 2014, but was able to recuperate with just rest and rehab...no surgery.
http://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/289722781.html
http://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/289722781.html
A second half back end of Kimbrel, Smith, TT, and Kelly could be lights out. I especially like TT's lockdown of LHHs.
And his low cost still leaves some wiggle room for a decent 1 year platoon guy (Valbuena, Plouffe, Solarte if they want depth for 3rd).
And his low cost still leaves some wiggle room for a decent 1 year platoon guy (Valbuena, Plouffe, Solarte if they want depth for 3rd).
