You think the Red Sox didn't do due diligence on that?
I respect their assessment of his physical state more than an observer.
I respect their assessment of his physical state more than an observer.
Red Sox acquire Drew Pomeranz for Anderson Espinoza
- Thread starter johnnywayback
- Start date
Worth noting that Aaron Sanchez is 23 and Pomeranz is 27. May not seem like much, but I think it's a significant difference. One that I think plays a factor in the Red Sox being willing to let it ride and see how far Pomeranz can go while the Jays are planning to slow Sanchez down.
I think Pomeranz's staying power is certainly a concern, but not one comparable to Aaron Sanchez.
Also, he spent two years mostly working out of the pen, right? Would you count those innings exactly the same in terms of total pitches thrown including warm-up etc, high stress innings, etc? He may have less wear and tear on his arm at this point of the year than he had in the last two.
Farrell, Bannister and Dombrowski have all mentioned his age in connection with IP questions, so I think Red(s)Hawks has bingo.
Fair point. It was a slightly different time when pitch/inning counts weren't quite the end-all they are now, but look at Derek Lowe in 2002. He went from about 290 innings (110, 91, 91) spread over three years as a reliever to about 220 innings in his first year as a starter. He was only a couple years older than Pomeranz is now.
It's something to keep an eye on, but it also seems a reasonable calculated risk to take with a mature player just entering his prime years.
And, similar to Lowe, he's a big guy. (I dont know if big guys can handle the load better than small guys, but it seems to be a common assumption).
I think age, body type, bullets fired/bullets left are all valid arguments. I also think they're all far and away secondary to simple workload conditioning. I just feel like he's a guy whose been running 10ks or half marathons and now he's thrown into a full one.
My point is simply that in a vacuum you'd probably see the team have some sort of an innings cap for a long term asset like him. Pennant race and pitching depth (as of now) doesn't seem to give them that luxury. Hoping they don't pay for it in 2017 and 2018
My point is simply that in a vacuum you'd probably see the team have some sort of an innings cap for a long term asset like him. Pennant race and pitching depth (as of now) doesn't seem to give them that luxury. Hoping they don't pay for it in 2017 and 2018
I'd be curious--has there ever been a guy as old and with as many professional innings under his belt as Pomeranz who was on an innings cap? Not necessarily asking whether it would be wise, just whether it would be precedented.
They might give him extra rest, or skip him once or twice in the rotation if they really feel the need to.
I've certainly never heard of it though I suppose a converted reliever like this is when it could happen. I don't think we will see it here but I agree that they may give him an extra day here or there. I assume waiting until Wednesday to pitch him is part of that plan but the other part is that he has owned the Giants this year.
Caps like that have really only been a thing in the last 15 years (10?). If someone knew how to manipulate baseball reference better than I can, it would probably be easy to find.
Didn't someone do a study that suggested a steep ramp up in innings was most dangerous for younger arms, rather than players who had been pitching for several years running?
Caps are pretty recent, but it also sort of seems like pitchers are getting injured more than ever now.
To blow apart my argument, you could look at guys like Ryan Dempster or Kenny Rogers who both relieved for a while then started and both remained pretty healthy. Though Dempster had been a starter for years before that, so his body was more conditioned. Rogers got a break his second season starting with the lockout, but still stayed healthy for 57 prior to that.
edit: basically my mind just says "since we traded espinoza, we need 75 starts of #2 or #3 ball out of this guy." we'll see if he stays healthy.
To blow apart my argument, you could look at guys like Ryan Dempster or Kenny Rogers who both relieved for a while then started and both remained pretty healthy. Though Dempster had been a starter for years before that, so his body was more conditioned. Rogers got a break his second season starting with the lockout, but still stayed healthy for 57 prior to that.
edit: basically my mind just says "since we traded espinoza, we need 75 starts of #2 or #3 ball out of this guy." we'll see if he stays healthy.
Pomeranz was a full time starter from his sophomore year in college (he made 11 starts out of 17 appearances as a freshman) until the A's put him in the pen two years ago. 10 appearances out of the pen in 2014 followed by 44 relief appearances last year...those mixed in with starts each season as well.
I think conditioning-wise he's just fine, and going by inning totals alone doesn't really tell the whole story.
Bump with an update on Espinoza's line since he's been throwing for Fort Wayne:
6 GS, 23.1 IP, 18 K, 6 BB, 15 ER, 5.79 ERA, 1.59 WHIP
He;s almost doubled his previous workload, so he may be tiring but he wasn't setting the world on fire before the trade either.
6 GS, 23.1 IP, 18 K, 6 BB, 15 ER, 5.79 ERA, 1.59 WHIP
He;s almost doubled his previous workload, so he may be tiring but he wasn't setting the world on fire before the trade either.
